Undaunted Infiltrator change...?

Raudgrani

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Patch notes says:

Undaunted Infiltrator and Unweaver: These sets no longer have an identity crisis, and grant the appropriate stats for their armor weights, although they still require you to cast an ability that is not the primary resource of their weight.
These sets now increase your Light and Heavy Attack damage by 1685 for their duration, rather than increasing your Light Attack damage by 774 and Heavy Attacks by 1161.

There never really was an identity crisis for these sets, at least not since we could trait change jewelry. I assure you: The ONLY ones using this set right now, are heavy attack Magicka builds, like pet sorcs. And it's a very, very good set for these. The only ones who will use this set after this change, is precisely.... NO ONE. The bonuses are way to weak for a heavy attack Stamina build to use.
So, pleeeease reconsider this change. It's a very old, very niche set - that very few people use for very specific builds, and you will ruin it for these, for the good of exactly nobody. It's not "OP" in any way, but it's actually a set i KNOW people with disabilities and such are recommended to use, for like "easy mode pet sorc" builds etc. So please reconsider this change. :-)

At large, I like most of the other set changes, but not a change like this - that basically makes what we use as a Magicka set a Stamina set instead, that neither Stamina nor Magicka users will ever put to use after this. If you just knew how many have been farming endlessly for Undaunted Infiltrator lightning staves, and if you just knew that people started to use this set BECAUSE it's old, and not likely to change - you would know what I mean.
I specifically farmed for this, because I thought it would never change. I'm so sick and tired of having to remake every build after every update, there seems to be no way around it! I want to play he game, not spend all my time trying to make viable builds. I actually try to avoid "meta builds", because I know I will need to change them after 3 months anyway. But now, not even 2016 edition sets are safe from this.

If you still think this is a good idea, by all means please also keep Stygian 3 piece bonus as Stamina too, because a melee type magblade till need more Stamina anyway - and after all it's a medium armor set, so it would pretty much go against this logic to remove the Stamina bonus of the set - if you apply your Undaunted Infiltrator bonus to it. Then at the very least make the two Magicka lines of Undaunted Infiltrator Spell Damage too, nothing else makes sense, and it's just another set to deconstruct for loads of people.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Literally nothing is sacred....Adjustments are one thing, but sledge hammering sets that were already obscure into the confines of Oblivion is mind boggling. Meta isn't ever safe to invest in, granted, but neither are those rusted gauntlets you found under a toad stool somewhere in Gnarsis because...you might punch someone with them, and it actually hurt.

Stahlor

as far as I understand this set gets a buff!..

FierceSam

Current Set bonus (medium armour type)
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you use an ability that costs Magicka, your Light Attacks deal an additional 774 damage and Heavy Attacks deal an additional 1161 damage for 10 seconds.

Uh... it looks like what they mean is the stats will change so you’ll get stamina instead of magicka as it’s a medium armour set. However, the 5 piece bonus is now increased quite a lot and makes a light attacking mag build potentially as viable. Does this make up for the loss of 2.2k magicka? Especially when you’re restoring magicka with every heavy attack?

I’m kind of interested to see where Mr Easy Sorc goes with this... hate to see all those golded lightning staffs getting binned. They were so bloody hard to get in the first place.

mairwen85

Stahlor wrote: »

as far as I understand this set gets a buff!

Yup. Overall higher bonus to heavy and light attacks. As mag you'll be transmuting anyway and probably farming weapons and jewellery. They're a medium armour set worn by mag users because of the cross resource requirement. Only difference now is that a decent damage buff is applied to both light and heavy attacks which opens the set up a bit dps wise. Sounds like a buff, right? OP doesn't explain the nerf logic, but I will:

(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka

Those will become stamina bonuses. So you lose mag resource and effectively damage.

Stahlor

Oh - I missed the first part. They really destroy the set. It seems they are changing the 2 and 3 piece bonuses to stam. Wtf! You'll have to farm undaunted unweaver instead.

Dagoth_Rac

FierceSam wrote: »

Current Set bonus (medium armour type)
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you use an ability that costs Magicka, your Light Attacks deal an additional 774 damage and Heavy Attacks deal an additional 1161 damage for 10 seconds.

Uh... it looks like what they mean is the stats will change so you’ll get stamina instead of magicka as it’s a medium armour set. However, the 5 piece bonus is now increased quite a lot and makes a light attacking mag build potentially as viable. Does this make up for the loss of 2.2k magicka? Especially when you’re restoring magicka with every heavy attack?

I’m kind of interested to see where Mr Easy Sorc goes with this... hate to see all those golded lightning staffs getting binned. They were so bloody hard to get in the first place.

I expect the "meta", if these sets can have a meta, will be to switch from Undaunted Infiltrator to Undaunted Unweaver, gain 833 spell crit, and use Lightweight Beast Trap (stamina skill) in rotation to gain both Minor Force and the light/heavy attack buff.

Having to switch from endlessly farming Arx to endlessly farming Blackheart stinks, but ZOS loves nothing more than to make us re-grind and re-farm.

WrathOfInnos

mairwen85 wrote: »

Stahlor wrote: »

as far as I understand this set gets a buff!

Yup. Overall higher bonus to heavy and light attacks. As mag you'll be transmuting anyway and probably farming weapons and jewellery. They're a medium armour set worn by mag users because of the cross resource requirement. Only difference now is that a decent damage buff is applied to both light and heavy attacks which opens the set up a bit dps wise. Sounds like a buff, right? OP doesn't explain the nerf logic, but I will:

(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka

Those will become stamina bonuses. So you lose mag resource and effectively damage.

Sounds like they’re using the wrong set then. It’s pretty clear now that Magicka builds should use the Light Armor set, and they will get more stats and a larger buff to Light and Heavy attacks than before. All it takes is a Stamina skill like Lightweight Trap (ranged, provides CC, and lasts the same 10s as the set) to activate the bonus. It should be much easier to farm since any pieces work, not just weapons and jewelry.

mairwen85

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Stahlor wrote: »

as far as I understand this set gets a buff!

Yup. Overall higher bonus to heavy and light attacks. As mag you'll be transmuting anyway and probably farming weapons and jewellery. They're a medium armour set worn by mag users because of the cross resource requirement. Only difference now is that a decent damage buff is applied to both light and heavy attacks which opens the set up a bit dps wise. Sounds like a buff, right? OP doesn't explain the nerf logic, but I will:

(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka

Those will become stamina bonuses. So you lose mag resource and effectively damage.

Sounds like they’re using the wrong set then. It’s pretty clear now that Magicka builds should use the Light Armor set, and they will get more stats and a larger buff to Light and Heavy attacks than before. All it takes is a Stamina skill like Lightweight Trap (ranged, provides CC, and lasts the same 10s as the set) to activate the bonus. It should be much easier to farm since any pieces work, not just weapons and jewelry.

Agreed, bit of creativity and there is gain to be had by going the other route. I was just elaborating on OP's point.

Edit to add:
This suggestion is likely the exact direction xynode will go with the 'easy sorc' build, to answer another poster.

FierceSam

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Current Set bonus (medium armour type)
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you use an ability that costs Magicka, your Light Attacks deal an additional 774 damage and Heavy Attacks deal an additional 1161 damage for 10 seconds.

Uh... it looks like what they mean is the stats will change so you’ll get stamina instead of magicka as it’s a medium armour set. However, the 5 piece bonus is now increased quite a lot and makes a light attacking mag build potentially as viable. Does this make up for the loss of 2.2k magicka? Especially when you’re restoring magicka with every heavy attack?

I’m kind of interested to see where Mr Easy Sorc goes with this... hate to see all those golded lightning staffs getting binned. They were so bloody hard to get in the first place.

I expect the "meta", if these sets can have a meta, will be to switch from Undaunted Infiltrator to Undaunted Unweaver, gain 833 spell crit, and use Lightweight Beast Trap (stamina skill) in rotation to gain both Minor Force and the light/heavy attack buff.

Having to switch from endlessly farming Arx to endlessly farming Blackheart stinks, but ZOS loves nothing more than to make us re-grind and re-farm.

It will be a shame if that’s the case as these sets will lose whatever unique charm they had. Being able to simply farm new body pieces will be a breeze... but something will be lost

Just in case, I’d take a punt and farm the f out of Blackheart Haven now, before they change the loot tables...

Stahlor

You will still have to farm the lightning staff for best damage. The buff carries over to the other bar, so no use to have it on both bars.

Raudgrani

Well, it's a "buff" if you want a mediocre Stamina heavy attacking build. Something tells me they are going on with the suggested LA/HA changes after all, why touch this set otherwise(?). It's probably less resource heavy on the hamster servers with HA/LA being changed this way, so this is the way we are heading I suppose. Just look at the Kyne's Aegis sets, obviously made for those suggested changes - and they didn't change despite them not going on with those changes, so...

For any Stamina heavy attack build I can think of, this five piece bonus bonus would apply exactly once. Like "yay", very impressive?
If you use this currently currently, on a lightning staff heavy attack build, it applies to every tick of that attack. Combine it with like Infallible Aether or even a max stat set like Crafty Alfiq or Necropotence (+ VMA shock staff), and you have a pretty good and very easy build. 10-15k ticks are pretty standard. Been vacuuming Imperial City of street bosses for Tel-Var with it for quite some time, it's highly effective for that kind of stuff - until other players show up, at least.

Now with this change, the two Magicka lines seems to be replaced with Stamina as far as I understand it(?), which makes you loose quite a lot of stats after all multipliers and such - and that kind of plastyle would be pretty void. I guess you could get that other undaunted set, and use like Dark Deal to proc it. It would be far from ideal, but still work (now you proc Infiltrator by Hardened Ward, Crit Surge or whatever). But in all honesty... Who DARES to start farming another set? In three months after that update, there will be huge changes again - probably rendering your new build worthless again. This happens eeeeeeeeevery single time.

If ANYTHING is gonna stop me from keep playing this game, this completely pointless and constant changes is it. I even went with this to NOT be "meta", and thus somewhat "update proof", but as someone said - nothing is holy here. It's far from OP or broken, but it works well, and has limited use. But no...

zvavi

So overall the build you are using gets buffed after you farm the new set for it. I don't see the problem.

Myconos

I would rather they went the other direction and made undaunted inflitrator have all magicka bonuses. I think it's more annoying to have to use a stamina ability every 10 seconds than to use a medium armor set on a magicka character. They could instead make both undaunted infiltrator and undaunted unweaver hybrid sets and give some of the pieces weapon and spell crit or max stam and max magicka, since the sets are already somewhat of a hybrid set to begin with.

Mettaricana

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

Literally nothing is sacred....Adjustments are one thing, but sledge hammering sets that were already obscure into the confines of Oblivion is mind boggling. Meta isn't ever safe to invest in, granted, but neither are those rusted gauntlets you found under a toad stool somewhere in Gnarsis because...you might punch someone with them, and it actually hurt.

Not Investing in the meta is exactly why i wont gold gear other than weapons in 3 months could flip to best or worst set in the game...

Kolzki

It’s that proc condition on the new undaunted unweaver that’s the real pain with only a 10 second duration. I’m struggling to think of any stamina skill that could be useful to mag dd characters except the trap. And casting a buff skill every 10 seconds is generally a noticeable dps loss.

Give it a longer duration (20 seconds) and it would be ok. If we need to cast trap every 10 seconds then I’ll take another set thanks.

zvavi

Kolzki wrote: »

It’s that proc condition on the new undaunted unweaver that’s the real pain with only a 10 second duration. I’m struggling to think of any stamina skill that could be useful to mag dd characters except the trap. And casting a buff skill every 10 seconds is generally a noticeable dps loss.

Give it a longer duration (20 seconds) and it would be ok. If we need to cast trap every 10 seconds then I’ll take another set thanks.

Ranged trap?

mairwen85

Kolzki wrote: »

It’s that proc condition on the new undaunted unweaver that’s the real pain with only a 10 second duration. I’m struggling to think of any stamina skill that could be useful to mag dd characters except the trap. And casting a buff skill every 10 seconds is generally a noticeable dps loss.

Give it a longer duration (20 seconds) and it would be ok. If we need to cast trap every 10 seconds then I’ll take another set thanks.

Light weight Trap is cheap, ranged, and grants minor force, so casting it once in your rotation is a dps increase for its duration and helps sustain. Lots of mag rotations already make use of it.

rnklippel

Kolzki wrote: »

It’s that proc condition on the new undaunted unweaver that’s the real pain with only a 10 second duration. I’m struggling to think of any stamina skill that could be useful to mag dd characters except the trap. [...]

How about the new Crystal Blast morph that costs stamina, increases the damage of your next light/heavy attack and reduces armor of the enemy?

Kolzki

zvavi wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

It’s that proc condition on the new undaunted unweaver that’s the real pain with only a 10 second duration. I’m struggling to think of any stamina skill that could be useful to mag dd characters except the trap. And casting a buff skill every 10 seconds is generally a noticeable dps loss.

Give it a longer duration (20 seconds) and it would be ok. If we need to cast trap every 10 seconds then I’ll take another set thanks.

Ranged trap?

Either trap morph would do, although personally I find barbed trap (or psyjic) much more practical. Technically this change is a set buff. It’s just a bit limiting to have to cast trap on a 10 second rotation when the buff is available from skills with 18 or 36 second durations. There just aren’t any other useful stamina skills though.

Raudgrani

zvavi wrote: »

So overall the build you are using gets buffed after you farm the new set for it. I don't see the problem.

Thing is, I won't. There's no way in **** I'm re-farming basically the same set yet another time. People really need to let go of this "That robber kicked my teeth in, but at least he gave me a napkin - and I might get really nice looking prosthetic teeth!" attitude. There's no reason whatsoever to change either of these sets. They are actually better off as it is now. But this forgiving/"positive" attitude makes everything possible ("Just re-farm your Maesltrom/Dragonstar gear!?").
I don't think they destroy sets like these on purpose, they simply don't know how people who use them DO use them. Besides, I'd need to re-farm Infallible Aether too, not just this set. I've already destroyed like +20 gold jewelry of that set, because I simple had no use for it - because I used transmuted Infiltrator jewelry (golded out necklace too, of course - and bought rings for 1M AP). All this, because of nothing. An uncalled for change, that nobody even cares about - or really don't like, just like me.

mairwen85

Raudgrani wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

So overall the build you are using gets buffed after you farm the new set for it. I don't see the problem.

Thing is, I won't. There's no way in **** I'm re-farming basically the same set yet another time. People really need to let go of this "That robber kicked my teeth in, but at least he gave me a napkin - and I might get really nice looking prosthetic teeth!" attitude. There's no reason whatsoever to change either of these sets. They are actually better off as it is now. But this forgiving/"positive" attitude makes everything possible ("Just re-farm your Maesltrom/Dragonstar gear!?").
I don't think they destroy sets like these on purpose, they simply don't know how people who use them DO use them. Besides, I'd need to re-farm Infallible Aether too, not just this set. I've already destroyed like +20 gold jewelry of that set, because I simple had no use for it - because I used transmuted Infiltrator jewelry (golded out necklace too, of course - and bought rings for 1M AP). All this, because of nothing. An uncalled for change, that nobody even cares about - or really don't like, just like me.

This is how nearly everyone feels nearly every patch. I'm sorry but I can't sympathise with your issue here. You've been safely untouched in your build options for a long time, but most every other player has to go through the same cycle every few months. If you're unhappy with this change, maybe look at it differently, instead of following a build (any build) from a content creator, whether that's (in your case) Xynode, or Dottz, or Alcast, or anyone else for that matter, look at what makes those builds work and come up with your own alternatives. If you're not prepared to adapt, then maybe you're not playing the right game. Changes and tweaks, nerfs and buffs are par for the course in MMOS, and ESO does it gratuitously and unapologetically. All this means is that your setup was performing to a standard that ZOS deemed required a shake up, or maybe they actually thought it was high time to make it so people didn't have to transmute or farm low chance items for their build; get over it and use the time you have now to prepare for it. If anything, you're in a better position with the alternative set as it is much more farm-able as body pieces or weapons or jewellery, you actually have a much easier grind to replace it than if you were following the meta.

Raudgrani

mairwen85 wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

So overall the build you are using gets buffed after you farm the new set for it. I don't see the problem.

Thing is, I won't. There's no way in **** I'm re-farming basically the same set yet another time. People really need to let go of this "That robber kicked my teeth in, but at least he gave me a napkin - and I might get really nice looking prosthetic teeth!" attitude. There's no reason whatsoever to change either of these sets. They are actually better off as it is now. But this forgiving/"positive" attitude makes everything possible ("Just re-farm your Maesltrom/Dragonstar gear!?").
I don't think they destroy sets like these on purpose, they simply don't know how people who use them DO use them. Besides, I'd need to re-farm Infallible Aether too, not just this set. I've already destroyed like +20 gold jewelry of that set, because I simple had no use for it - because I used transmuted Infiltrator jewelry (golded out necklace too, of course - and bought rings for 1M AP). All this, because of nothing. An uncalled for change, that nobody even cares about - or really don't like, just like me.

This is how nearly everyone feels nearly every patch. I'm sorry but I can't sympathise with your issue here. You've been safely untouched in your build options for a long time, but most every other player has to go through the same cycle every few months. If you're unhappy with this change, maybe look at it differently, instead of following a build (any build) from a content creator, whether that's (in your case) Xynode, or Dottz, or Alcast, or anyone else for that matter, look at what makes those builds work and come up with your own alternatives. If you're not prepared to adapt, then maybe you're not playing the right game. Changes and tweaks, nerfs and buffs are par for the course in MMOS, and ESO does it gratuitously and unapologetically. All this means is that your setup was performing to a standard that ZOS deemed required a shake up; get over it and use the time you have now to prepare for it. If anything, you're in a better position with the alternative set as it is much more farm-able as body pieces or weapons or jewellery, you actually have a much easier grind to replace it than if you were following the meta.

"Content creator" my ***. Day one that I could trait change the jewelry, me and a friend made this build - and no, I didn't come up with it, my friend suggested it the very first day we heard of trait change.

I haven't asked for anyone's "sympathy", I simply find it baffling that they see the urge to change a set, that nobody uses for except this very purpose, and that literally nobody will use after this change. And I don't feel an urge to start using stamina abilities every 10 seconds, just to use the other Undaunted set. I could use a magicka ability for minor force, if I really felt the need for it.

Thing is: I generally don't do "meta builds", because I don't want to have to change my builds every 3 months. But often I still have to; as I have 18 ones - so I haven't been "safer" than anyone else. You make it sound like I'm some spoiled privileged brat, who have to change a build for the first time ever. I really can't see why.

Much of the time, set changes does make sense, even if it feels bad having to change your build. But this is just some sort of control freak move, in their "standardization" of sets etc. They dusted it off, realized it looked weird, and decided to change it in the name of standardization. But it's just a bad move, now literally no one will ever use it. Some people use it now, but none will after this.

mairwen85

Raudgrani wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

So overall the build you are using gets buffed after you farm the new set for it. I don't see the problem.

Thing is, I won't. There's no way in **** I'm re-farming basically the same set yet another time. People really need to let go of this "That robber kicked my teeth in, but at least he gave me a napkin - and I might get really nice looking prosthetic teeth!" attitude. There's no reason whatsoever to change either of these sets. They are actually better off as it is now. But this forgiving/"positive" attitude makes everything possible ("Just re-farm your Maesltrom/Dragonstar gear!?").
I don't think they destroy sets like these on purpose, they simply don't know how people who use them DO use them. Besides, I'd need to re-farm Infallible Aether too, not just this set. I've already destroyed like +20 gold jewelry of that set, because I simple had no use for it - because I used transmuted Infiltrator jewelry (golded out necklace too, of course - and bought rings for 1M AP). All this, because of nothing. An uncalled for change, that nobody even cares about - or really don't like, just like me.

This is how nearly everyone feels nearly every patch. I'm sorry but I can't sympathise with your issue here. You've been safely untouched in your build options for a long time, but most every other player has to go through the same cycle every few months. If you're unhappy with this change, maybe look at it differently, instead of following a build (any build) from a content creator, whether that's (in your case) Xynode, or Dottz, or Alcast, or anyone else for that matter, look at what makes those builds work and come up with your own alternatives. If you're not prepared to adapt, then maybe you're not playing the right game. Changes and tweaks, nerfs and buffs are par for the course in MMOS, and ESO does it gratuitously and unapologetically. All this means is that your setup was performing to a standard that ZOS deemed required a shake up; get over it and use the time you have now to prepare for it. If anything, you're in a better position with the alternative set as it is much more farm-able as body pieces or weapons or jewellery, you actually have a much easier grind to replace it than if you were following the meta.

"Content creator" my ***. Day one that I could trait change the jewelry, me and a friend made this build - and no, I didn't come up with it, my friend suggested it the very first day we heard of trait change.

I haven't asked for anyone's "sympathy", I simply find it baffling that they see the urge to change a set, that nobody uses for except this very purpose, and that literally nobody will use after this change. And I don't feel an urge to start using stamina abilities every 10 seconds, just to use the other Undaunted set. I could use a magicka ability for minor force, if I really felt the need for it.

Thing is: I generally don't do "meta builds", because I don't want to have to change my builds every 3 months. But often I still have to; as I have 18 ones - so I haven't been "safer" than anyone else. You make it sound like I'm some spoiled privileged brat, who have to change a build for the first time ever. I really can't see why.

So you expected to never have to change your setup? In a game that is in constant flux? And you're unwilling to take an easy option to continue using a very similar setup for the foreseeable future? You're stamping your feet about a very minor non-change that actually makes things for you and others with your playstyle much easier, and yet here we are bemoaning that a single set won't be used for that same effect anymore. You haven't lost your build or playstyle, you have the options to farm 5 pieces of a different set that does exactly the same job, but in doing so you aren't locked into farming only jewellery and a shock staff that hardly ever drops.

Raudgrani wrote: »

Much of the time, set changes does make sense, even if it feels bad having to change your build. But this is just some sort of control freak move, in their "standardization" of sets etc. They dusted it off, realized it looked weird, and decided to change it in the name of standardization. But it's just a bad move, now literally no one will ever use it. Some people use it now, but none will after this.

But they do have a better and much easier to farm alternative with much less xmute requirement, so 🤷

zvavi

Raudgrani wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

So overall the build you are using gets buffed after you farm the new set for it. I don't see the problem.

Thing is, I won't. There's no way in **** I'm re-farming basically the same set yet another time.

Then don't. The original maybe lost 2k magicka, but it still got buffed on the dmg bonus to heavy side. So u can not be 100% sure it is a nerf.

Raudgrani

mairwen85 wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

So overall the build you are using gets buffed after you farm the new set for it. I don't see the problem.

Thing is, I won't. There's no way in **** I'm re-farming basically the same set yet another time. People really need to let go of this "That robber kicked my teeth in, but at least he gave me a napkin - and I might get really nice looking prosthetic teeth!" attitude. There's no reason whatsoever to change either of these sets. They are actually better off as it is now. But this forgiving/"positive" attitude makes everything possible ("Just re-farm your Maesltrom/Dragonstar gear!?").
I don't think they destroy sets like these on purpose, they simply don't know how people who use them DO use them. Besides, I'd need to re-farm Infallible Aether too, not just this set. I've already destroyed like +20 gold jewelry of that set, because I simple had no use for it - because I used transmuted Infiltrator jewelry (golded out necklace too, of course - and bought rings for 1M AP). All this, because of nothing. An uncalled for change, that nobody even cares about - or really don't like, just like me.

This is how nearly everyone feels nearly every patch. I'm sorry but I can't sympathise with your issue here. You've been safely untouched in your build options for a long time, but most every other player has to go through the same cycle every few months. If you're unhappy with this change, maybe look at it differently, instead of following a build (any build) from a content creator, whether that's (in your case) Xynode, or Dottz, or Alcast, or anyone else for that matter, look at what makes those builds work and come up with your own alternatives. If you're not prepared to adapt, then maybe you're not playing the right game. Changes and tweaks, nerfs and buffs are par for the course in MMOS, and ESO does it gratuitously and unapologetically. All this means is that your setup was performing to a standard that ZOS deemed required a shake up; get over it and use the time you have now to prepare for it. If anything, you're in a better position with the alternative set as it is much more farm-able as body pieces or weapons or jewellery, you actually have a much easier grind to replace it than if you were following the meta.

"Content creator" my ***. Day one that I could trait change the jewelry, me and a friend made this build - and no, I didn't come up with it, my friend suggested it the very first day we heard of trait change.

I haven't asked for anyone's "sympathy", I simply find it baffling that they see the urge to change a set, that nobody uses for except this very purpose, and that literally nobody will use after this change. And I don't feel an urge to start using stamina abilities every 10 seconds, just to use the other Undaunted set. I could use a magicka ability for minor force, if I really felt the need for it.

Thing is: I generally don't do "meta builds", because I don't want to have to change my builds every 3 months. But often I still have to; as I have 18 ones - so I haven't been "safer" than anyone else. You make it sound like I'm some spoiled privileged brat, who have to change a build for the first time ever. I really can't see why.

So you expected to never have to change your setup? In a game that is in constant flux? And you're unwilling to take an easy option to continue using a very similar setup for the foreseeable future?

Raudgrani wrote: »

Much of the time, set changes does make sense, even if it feels bad having to change your build. But this is just some sort of control freak move, in their "standardization" of sets etc. They dusted it off, realized it looked weird, and decided to change it in the name of standardization. But it's just a bad move, now literally no one will ever use it. Some people use it now, but none will after this.

But they do have a better and much easier to farm alternative with much less xmute requirement, so 🤷

This change isn't done because the set is "too op" or anything else, it's expressly done because of "identity crisis", a crisis that only exist in the head of the devs. It's not being changed because of content creators/meta, but because they want things "in order", regretting bad decisions they made a long time ago - one which is easily bypassed with trait change of jewelry.
It works perfectly well after a trait change, and I don't want a "more powerful build"; I just don't want to spend time and gold on changing yet another build - so, exactly what are you debating here again? That it's a positive thing to change a set for no good reason whatsoever? Because they made a magicka set medium armor weight and the other way around, or what? Nobody will use this as a medium armor set. A few uses both of these sets together now, but literally no one will use the Stamina version again. It's decon junk. Expensive such.

And I don't just have to farm "this one set" either, I'll have to get Infallible Aether gold jewelry and shock staff as well, jewelry I've already had and deconstructed over a dozen times, because I needed to use the armor and not the jewelry/weapons - now it's suddenly the other way around. Explain to me why this is such a good thing? Does it make anyone happier? Better for game balance? Better for economy? Good thing that I need to spend hours on end getting new gear, instead of playing the way I would really want? Again, how was this a good change? I'm really curious. Why defend a decision like this? What do you earn from it?

Raudgrani

zvavi wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

So overall the build you are using gets buffed after you farm the new set for it. I don't see the problem.

Thing is, I won't. There's no way in **** I'm re-farming basically the same set yet another time.

Then don't. The original maybe lost 2k magicka, but it still got buffed on the dmg bonus to heavy side. So u can not be 100% sure it is a nerf.

+524 damage on heavy attacks vs. loss of 2k magicka before multipliers? Well, I don't think we need to go into crunching numbers to see that this is clearly a loss. A completely pointless one at that.

Mindcr0w

Raudgrani wrote: »

And I don't just have to farm "this one set" either, I'll have to get Infallible Aether gold jewelry and shock staff as well, jewelry I've already had and deconstructed over a dozen times, because I needed to use the armor and not the jewelry/weapons - now it's suddenly the other way around.

So not defending these particular changes, just spitballing ideas as a frequent user of the ol' sorc heavy attack build. So we need to use a stam ability to activate Unweaver. We don't wanna take up a front bar space for that stam ability. We typically backbar vMA weapon. Any reason given how the 5pc on Unweaver "carries over" between bar swaps that we couldn't still body Infal, weap/jewel Unweaver on backbar, and frontbar vMA staff?

I know it is weird and unconventional, but so is the build in general. Or am I missing something obvious that would make this not work?

Raudgrani wrote: »

+524 damage on heavy attacks vs. loss of 2k magicka before multipliers? Well, I don't think we need to go into crunching numbers to see that this is clearly a loss. A completely pointless one at that.

Well it is 500+ damage per every tick of a lightning staff heavy attack, before other factors that will increase it further like crit and off balance, in a build that likes to do lots of HA's. Plus like 900 extra damage to light attacks if you are weaving. So some number crunching would probably be in order.

mairwen85

Raudgrani wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

So overall the build you are using gets buffed after you farm the new set for it. I don't see the problem.

Thing is, I won't. There's no way in **** I'm re-farming basically the same set yet another time. People really need to let go of this "That robber kicked my teeth in, but at least he gave me a napkin - and I might get really nice looking prosthetic teeth!" attitude. There's no reason whatsoever to change either of these sets. They are actually better off as it is now. But this forgiving/"positive" attitude makes everything possible ("Just re-farm your Maesltrom/Dragonstar gear!?").
I don't think they destroy sets like these on purpose, they simply don't know how people who use them DO use them. Besides, I'd need to re-farm Infallible Aether too, not just this set. I've already destroyed like +20 gold jewelry of that set, because I simple had no use for it - because I used transmuted Infiltrator jewelry (golded out necklace too, of course - and bought rings for 1M AP). All this, because of nothing. An uncalled for change, that nobody even cares about - or really don't like, just like me.

This is how nearly everyone feels nearly every patch. I'm sorry but I can't sympathise with your issue here. You've been safely untouched in your build options for a long time, but most every other player has to go through the same cycle every few months. If you're unhappy with this change, maybe look at it differently, instead of following a build (any build) from a content creator, whether that's (in your case) Xynode, or Dottz, or Alcast, or anyone else for that matter, look at what makes those builds work and come up with your own alternatives. If you're not prepared to adapt, then maybe you're not playing the right game. Changes and tweaks, nerfs and buffs are par for the course in MMOS, and ESO does it gratuitously and unapologetically. All this means is that your setup was performing to a standard that ZOS deemed required a shake up; get over it and use the time you have now to prepare for it. If anything, you're in a better position with the alternative set as it is much more farm-able as body pieces or weapons or jewellery, you actually have a much easier grind to replace it than if you were following the meta.

"Content creator" my ***. Day one that I could trait change the jewelry, me and a friend made this build - and no, I didn't come up with it, my friend suggested it the very first day we heard of trait change.

I haven't asked for anyone's "sympathy", I simply find it baffling that they see the urge to change a set, that nobody uses for except this very purpose, and that literally nobody will use after this change. And I don't feel an urge to start using stamina abilities every 10 seconds, just to use the other Undaunted set. I could use a magicka ability for minor force, if I really felt the need for it.

Thing is: I generally don't do "meta builds", because I don't want to have to change my builds every 3 months. But often I still have to; as I have 18 ones - so I haven't been "safer" than anyone else. You make it sound like I'm some spoiled privileged brat, who have to change a build for the first time ever. I really can't see why.

So you expected to never have to change your setup? In a game that is in constant flux? And you're unwilling to take an easy option to continue using a very similar setup for the foreseeable future?

Raudgrani wrote: »

Much of the time, set changes does make sense, even if it feels bad having to change your build. But this is just some sort of control freak move, in their "standardization" of sets etc. They dusted it off, realized it looked weird, and decided to change it in the name of standardization. But it's just a bad move, now literally no one will ever use it. Some people use it now, but none will after this.

But they do have a better and much easier to farm alternative with much less xmute requirement, so 🤷

This change isn't done because the set is "too op" or anything else, it's expressly done because of "identity crisis", a crisis that only exist in the head of the devs. It's not being changed because of content creators/meta, but because they want things "in order", regretting bad decisions they made a long time ago - one which is easily bypassed with trait change of jewelry.
It works perfectly well after a trait change, and I don't want a "more powerful build"; I just don't want to spend time and gold on changing yet another build - so, exactly what are you debating here again? That it's a positive thing to change a set for no good reason whatsoever? Because they made a magicka set medium armor weight and the other way around, or what? Nobody will use this as a medium armor set. A few uses both of these sets together now, but literally no one will use the Stamina version again. It's decon junk. Expensive such.

And I don't just have to farm "this one set" either, I'll have to get Infallible Aether gold jewelry and shock staff as well, jewelry I've already had and deconstructed over a dozen times, because I needed to use the armor and not the jewelry/weapons - now it's suddenly the other way around. Explain to me why this is such a good thing? Does it make anyone happier? Better for game balance? Better for economy? Good thing that I need to spend hours on end getting new gear, instead of playing the way I would really want? Again, how was this a good change? I'm really curious. Why defend a decision like this? What do you earn from it?

I'm not defending these changes, and I'm not going to argue with you. I'm just pointing out that there are options, and just like several other players next patch, you'll need to adapt. Whether you accept that point or not makes no difference to me, so I'll just step out and leave you to it.

Raudgrani

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

And I don't just have to farm "this one set" either, I'll have to get Infallible Aether gold jewelry and shock staff as well, jewelry I've already had and deconstructed over a dozen times, because I needed to use the armor and not the jewelry/weapons - now it's suddenly the other way around.

So not defending these particular changes, just spitballing ideas as a frequent user of the ol' sorc heavy attack build. So we need to use a stam ability to activate Unweaver. We don't wanna take up a front bar space for that stam ability. We typically backbar vMA weapon. Any reason given how the 5pc on Unweaver "carries over" between bar swaps that we couldn't still body Infal, weap/jewel Unweaver on backbar, and frontbar vMA staff?

I know it is weird and unconventional, but so is the build in general. Or am I missing something obvious that would make this not work?

Raudgrani wrote: »

+524 damage on heavy attacks vs. loss of 2k magicka before multipliers? Well, I don't think we need to go into crunching numbers to see that this is clearly a loss. A completely pointless one at that.

Well it is 500+ damage per every tick of a lightning staff heavy attack, before other factors like crit and off balance, in a build that likes to do lots of HA's. So some number crunching would probably be in order.

Dunno really. I spend so little time on backbar of that build, literally only for Elemental Blockade of Maelstrom shock staff (some Harness Magicka if there are players around).
I easily have a 100% uptime on Infiltrator even if it's just frontbared, I typically just go like Blockade -> Lightning Flood -> Crit Surge and then HA until time to refresh. Sometimes switching Flood for Frags, especially if there are other players around.

Typically I guess I proc Infiltrator by Ward and/or Crit Surge, 10 seconds is quite a lot so there's no stress really. It's the least "mechanic heavy" build I've ever had, still very good damage - and one of the few viable for effortlessly farming IC bosses (literally "fail proof"), but not good for so much else unless you are very bad at keeping up rotations on other, stronger builds. Very annoying having to re-make same build, for no good reason whatsoever. I can't see anybody in benefit from this change.

Raudgrani

mairwen85 wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

So overall the build you are using gets buffed after you farm the new set for it. I don't see the problem.

Thing is, I won't. There's no way in **** I'm re-farming basically the same set yet another time. People really need to let go of this "That robber kicked my teeth in, but at least he gave me a napkin - and I might get really nice looking prosthetic teeth!" attitude. There's no reason whatsoever to change either of these sets. They are actually better off as it is now. But this forgiving/"positive" attitude makes everything possible ("Just re-farm your Maesltrom/Dragonstar gear!?").
I don't think they destroy sets like these on purpose, they simply don't know how people who use them DO use them. Besides, I'd need to re-farm Infallible Aether too, not just this set. I've already destroyed like +20 gold jewelry of that set, because I simple had no use for it - because I used transmuted Infiltrator jewelry (golded out necklace too, of course - and bought rings for 1M AP). All this, because of nothing. An uncalled for change, that nobody even cares about - or really don't like, just like me.

This is how nearly everyone feels nearly every patch. I'm sorry but I can't sympathise with your issue here. You've been safely untouched in your build options for a long time, but most every other player has to go through the same cycle every few months. If you're unhappy with this change, maybe look at it differently, instead of following a build (any build) from a content creator, whether that's (in your case) Xynode, or Dottz, or Alcast, or anyone else for that matter, look at what makes those builds work and come up with your own alternatives. If you're not prepared to adapt, then maybe you're not playing the right game. Changes and tweaks, nerfs and buffs are par for the course in MMOS, and ESO does it gratuitously and unapologetically. All this means is that your setup was performing to a standard that ZOS deemed required a shake up; get over it and use the time you have now to prepare for it. If anything, you're in a better position with the alternative set as it is much more farm-able as body pieces or weapons or jewellery, you actually have a much easier grind to replace it than if you were following the meta.

"Content creator" my ***. Day one that I could trait change the jewelry, me and a friend made this build - and no, I didn't come up with it, my friend suggested it the very first day we heard of trait change.

I haven't asked for anyone's "sympathy", I simply find it baffling that they see the urge to change a set, that nobody uses for except this very purpose, and that literally nobody will use after this change. And I don't feel an urge to start using stamina abilities every 10 seconds, just to use the other Undaunted set. I could use a magicka ability for minor force, if I really felt the need for it.

Thing is: I generally don't do "meta builds", because I don't want to have to change my builds every 3 months. But often I still have to; as I have 18 ones - so I haven't been "safer" than anyone else. You make it sound like I'm some spoiled privileged brat, who have to change a build for the first time ever. I really can't see why.

So you expected to never have to change your setup? In a game that is in constant flux? And you're unwilling to take an easy option to continue using a very similar setup for the foreseeable future?

Raudgrani wrote: »

Much of the time, set changes does make sense, even if it feels bad having to change your build. But this is just some sort of control freak move, in their "standardization" of sets etc. They dusted it off, realized it looked weird, and decided to change it in the name of standardization. But it's just a bad move, now literally no one will ever use it. Some people use it now, but none will after this.

But they do have a better and much easier to farm alternative with much less xmute requirement, so 🤷

This change isn't done because the set is "too op" or anything else, it's expressly done because of "identity crisis", a crisis that only exist in the head of the devs. It's not being changed because of content creators/meta, but because they want things "in order", regretting bad decisions they made a long time ago - one which is easily bypassed with trait change of jewelry.
It works perfectly well after a trait change, and I don't want a "more powerful build"; I just don't want to spend time and gold on changing yet another build - so, exactly what are you debating here again? That it's a positive thing to change a set for no good reason whatsoever? Because they made a magicka set medium armor weight and the other way around, or what? Nobody will use this as a medium armor set. A few uses both of these sets together now, but literally no one will use the Stamina version again. It's decon junk. Expensive such.

And I don't just have to farm "this one set" either, I'll have to get Infallible Aether gold jewelry and shock staff as well, jewelry I've already had and deconstructed over a dozen times, because I needed to use the armor and not the jewelry/weapons - now it's suddenly the other way around. Explain to me why this is such a good thing? Does it make anyone happier? Better for game balance? Better for economy? Good thing that I need to spend hours on end getting new gear, instead of playing the way I would really want? Again, how was this a good change? I'm really curious. Why defend a decision like this? What do you earn from it?

I'm not defending these changes, and I'm not going to argue with you. I'm just pointing out that there are options, and just like several other players next patch, you'll need to adapt. Whether you accept that point or not makes no difference to me, so I'll just step out and leave you to it.

I never felt comfort from "think of the poor starving kids, now eat your food" or "You broke your nose, but I know a guy who broke his BACK!" kind of logic. And of course there are "options". There's always the same option: Farm new gear, pay hundreds of thousands of gold to improve it, and do it again after 3 months. Now tbf, I've had this build since first week of Summerset (maybe even first day, don't remember), and yes - I would have been fine with having this build ruined, if you could pull 99k DPS with it or whatever. But it's nowhere near that kind of build. This isn't why they change this.

Half of the reason I actually made it, was because I felt the risk of having to change it was very low. I only ever use it in IC when I need Tel-Var, and sometimes in big groups in Cyrodiil. So in a way this is kind of good and bad, I strongly doubt I will spend any time whatsoever "farming" for it. If I get the gear I get it, if I don't - it's yet another worthless character I won't be using, just because of these ever occurring changes. The difference, is that this change is completely uncalled for, unnecessary and pointless.

I'm not big at magicka, besides this one I only have a magblade - and now that will likely be the only magicka toon I have to offer. I'm positively not gonna make a petsorc going about throwing beast traps around the place, never.