ZOS: Please consider also buffing the Swallow Soul morph of Strife along with Funnel Health

Mayrael

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

[Removed quote]

If this is the way you look at things, I suppose you also think Sweeps should get nerfed then, right? Because "standards"? Same goes for Dizzy, but it'd need a complete rework because of all the rules it breaks. While we're at it, Blastbones/Shalks should lose Defile/Fracture, and hell — Crystal Frags probably shouldn't even exist at all because it doesn't really fit anywhere. (Obviously Wrath is definitely out.) Leap should probably get a cost increase and do less damage... sounds great, doesn't it? This way all the numbers will look nice and pretty for you.

All of those abilities have major downsides that you're completely ignoring.

Sweeps is a melee-range channel.
Dizzy is a melee-range attack with a cast time.
Blastbones and Shalks aren't spammable.
Frags requires a proc.
Wrath is an execute.
Leap is an ultimate.

Asking for your instant-cast, ranged, spammable to be comparable to any of them is silly.

Maybe, just maybe try to conversate instead of biting like a rabid dog. He was saying about all those skill in terms of standards in their own categories, it isn't very hard to understand, but if someone doesn't have arguments like you, he will made them up.

Leap - compare it to Soul harvest. Deals more damage amage (on the same build around 30% more damage). It works as gap closer. Can't be dodged (in most of the cases) because it has huge AoE. Is hard CC with knockback. Provides huge shield. No cast time. Costs 48 Ultimates more.

Take flight - Deals more damage (almost 50% more damage on the same build). Can't be dodged (in most of the cases) because it has huge AoE. Is hard CC with knockback. No cast time. Costs 34 Ultimates more.


Soul harvest - single target, deals less damage, provides no CC, can be dodged, is not a gap closer (to use it you need additional skill if you try to actually play ranged as all magblade skills are), has cast time. It debuffs your target (but only when succesfully landed) to take 20% damage and heal less for 30%. Passively allows for better ult gen (mostly in PvE since you need to deal killing blow, and in PvP its redundant), costs less.

Incap - single target, deals less damage, can be dodged, is not a gap closer, has cast time. It debuffs your target (but only when succesfully landed) to take 20% damage. Passively increases sustain. Costs less. It can CC but then costs more than both Leap or Take flight.

And thats fine, we don't bomb DKs threads asking for nerfs, so you should also stop to poke your nose into other people's affairs.

the1andonlyskwex

Blastbones, Shalks, and Daedric Curse are standardized against each other.

Frags, Snipe, and Dark Flare are all standardized against each other, and Dizzy is standardized against them with a standardized damage increase for being melee.

Wrath is actually numerically weak for an execute, it just seems strong because it can be cast in advance.

What were you saying about abilities not adhering to standards? Who's being intellectually dishonest now?

xI_The_Owl_Ix

I will shamelessly put the thread Ive created, where I went more indepth with the issues, in here.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/519870/playing-a-magblade-is-nothing-but-frustrating/p1

Mayrael

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Blastbones, Shalks, and Daedric Curse are standardized against each other.

Frags, Snipe, and Dark Flare are all standardized against each other, and Dizzy is standardized against them with a standardized damage increase for being melee.

Wrath is actually numerically weak for an execute, it just seems strong because it can be cast in advance.

What were you saying about abilities not adhering to standards? Who's being intellectually dishonest now?

Seriously? Standarised? In which manner?

Cost?
Blastbones: 1,8k stamina

Subterranean: 1,6k

Curse: 2,5k

Area?
Blastbones: 6m radius

Subterranean: 20x7m

Curse:? "Nearest enemies"

Range?
Blastbones: 28m + PvP bonuses.

Subterranean:20m

Curse: 28m + PvP bonuses.

Damage?
Blastbones: 10,5k

Subterranean: 9,2k

Curse: 9k (4k AoE)

Secondary effects?
Blastbones: AoE 4s Major Defile with 100% uptime

Subterranean: AoE 6s Major Fracture with 100% uptime

Curse: Hits again after 5s

Synergy with passives?
Blastbones:
Each next cast costs 50% less (look at cost standard). Increases damage done to enemies below 25% hp by 10 when slotted. Increses your phisical and spell penetration by 1500 while active.

Subterranean:
Each cast heals you for 1300 hp (orginal value), Every 8s generates 4 ultimates. Increases your damage done by 2% for slotting. Increases your stamina and magicka recovery by 12 % for slotting.

Curse:
Increases your HP and Stamina recovery by 20% when slotted.


Please elaborate about that standarisation because I can't see any maybe except of more or less similar damage for all of those.

Mayrael

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

I will shamelessly put the thread Ive created, where I went more indepth with the issues, in here.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/519870/playing-a-magblade-is-nothing-but-frustrating/p1

This is that awesome thread that I had seen in the past. Great work mate. It shows all the things that hurt magblade the most.

Langeston

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Blastbones, Shalks, and Daedric Curse are standardized against each other.

Frags, Snipe, and Dark Flare are all standardized against each other, and Dizzy is standardized against them with a standardized damage increase for being melee.

Wrath is actually numerically weak for an execute, it just seems strong because it can be cast in advance.

What were you saying about abilities not adhering to standards? Who's being intellectually dishonest now?

Good God man.

ZOS took Defile/Fracture off of Incap/Surprise Attack (both single target abilities) because they were supposedly overperforming, and then they turned around and slapped them on Blastbones and Shalks — AOE abilities that do absurd amounts of damage. So Fracture on a single target ability that's weaker than Dizzy is apparently overpowered, but putting it on an ability that does more damage than Dizzy, and does it to multiple targets, is just peachy. Got it.

THAT is what I am referring to when I say that ZOS isn't adhering to its own purported standards. I hope you understand now, because I am done trying to explain things to you.

Regards.

the1andonlyskwex

The fact that you or I don't fully understand (or agree with) ZOS's standardization formula doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Just increasing the numbers on Nightblades' best skills is a terrible way to buff the class as a whole. Not only will it fail to fix the underlying issues (too many dead skills, essential functions spread over more skills than there are bar slots), but it will also result in Nightblades simply having an "I win" button (or combo), which isn't fun for anybody (and is what got nightblades nerfed in the first place).

JayKwellen

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Lotus Fan>Soul Harvest>Concealed Weapon>Impale should be pretty darned close to your Templar example, based on tooltips. And if that's not enough, you should have Shade and Merciless Resolve running before you attack.

@killingspreeb16_ESO This is the best example,this combo take time is predictable(cast time for lotus and soul harvest say hi)is clunky and pure trash,reason why if someone ever play with this skill setup(and i never see the NB execute because it's bad) is most likely with caluurion and zaan because it lacks damage otherwise and even then is not that great.


To me is clear that you just look things up and then make a post about it but never actually played in game against decent player which is the actual problem.

And this right here gets at the heart of what I was implying in my earlier post.

If you see a magblade out in the wild honestly attempting that combo (or trying to that is. Between the cast time on lotus and the cast time on soul harvest, your target has already rolled away. Even if you feared them before the soul harvest, they've still CC broken and dodge rolled before it could land) you can instantly figure out they're, like you said, a Caluurion/Zaan gank/melee magblade. They could potentially just a straight up beast, I know one on my server who has a similar combo who I think doesn't run Caluurion, but dude is a savage and could probably still kill most people hung over and half asleep.

Anyone who thinks that "combo" is particularly successful outside of very specific builds or against potatoes doesn't understand the realities of playing a magblade anymore. I mean hell, the fact that the archtypical nightblade "assassin" play style can't even work well with the classes own abilities, and literally has to crutch on proc sets or vampirism (or both) just to work should tell you all you need to know about the state of the class.

Mayrael

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

The fact that you or I don't fully understand (or agree with) ZOS's standardization formula doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Just increasing the numbers on Nightblades' best skills is a terrible way to buff the class as a whole. Not only will it fail to fix the underlying issues (too many dead skills, essential functions spread over more skills than there are bar slots), but it will also result in Nightblades simply having an "I win" button (or combo), which isn't fun for anybody (and is what got nightblades nerfed in the first place).

Don't pretend YOU do understand ZOS standarisation if you don't even know classes skills and passives. At least I use facts, not just empty statements like "I know better because I do".

Nerfs to magblade was not made because of it was OP class but because of "redundancy" removal, making usefull skills useless (criplle giving major expedition, path healing and dealing damage, surprise atack giving fracture) leading to situation where skills that were used because of those secondary effects got crippled, while nobody wants to use the new ones, because they dont fit into magblade toolkit - like who tf would like to use path for major expedition when it breaks your cloak?! -_-


PS. Can you tell me why are you invading magblades and sorcs threads about their skills without having any knowledge about those classes? (except of being frustrated)

kojou

Swallow Soul and Funnel Health used to be perfectly balanced, then the developers decided to halve the damage on Funnel and the base skill. Now that they did the skill audit they are finally realizing the error... I would say they probably also noted that nearly no-one was using Funnel Health.

IMO, they need to look at all "spammables that heal" and make sure that the damage and healing is consistent. Swallow should should be on a scale with Puncturing Sweeps since they are both a self heal (Sweeps should be more a powerful skill overall because it is a channel), but there should be an algorithm to figure out the scaling.

Rianai

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Swallow Soul currently does exactly the same amount of damage as all of the other ranged spammables in the game. What makes you think it deserves to be stronger than what everyone else has?

That's not exactly true.
Ele Weapon has the same base dmg, however is guaranteed to proc a status effect which not only adds additional dmg on its own but also offeres further dmg increase in form of minor vulnerability. That's before factoring spell orb dmg. It is also slightly cheaper and with resource restore on miss (which makes it significantly cheaper in pvp where stuff misses all the time). Crushing Shock has slightly lower base dmg, but due to destro passives and status effect procs it will also deal more dmg than Swallow Soul in practise. Ironically it is also cheaper, even tho the reasoning for the massive cost increase on Strife was "cost standard".

That just in addition to what other's have already pointed our regarding ZOS' nonsensical standardisation routine.

So why do some (by far not all) magblades still use Swallow Soul?
1. Somewhat decent siphoning passives and no good alternative to proc those
2. Garbage class healing, which makes every little bit of healing valuable.

Edit: Tho i have to agree that despite Strife being underwhelming number wise, overall numbers aren't a magblade's main issue.

Hamboot

100% agree

exeeter702

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

[Snip]

I haven't played a NB in PvP in a while, but I have played one since the (well-deserved) nerfs you are all constantly complaining about. As far as I can tell, they're a little below average, but not nearly as bad as you people seem to think (I think years of being overpowered gave some of you inflated opinions of your own skills).

I'm actually open to the idea of buffing nightblades, generally, but all of the suggestions you people seem to come up with involve buffing abilities that are already powerful instead of fixing abilities that are real problems.

If I were you, I would focus on the following:

Mark Target - Who are you supposed to cast this on? Half of it's effect is most useful on targets that are hard to kill, while the other half requires the target to die. Once you account for the fact that it only works on one target at a time, it doesn't have much use for anybody.

Path of Darkness - A speed buff that requires you and your target to stay within a small area of effect.

Cripple - A very generic single-target DoT on a class that primarily relies on burst damage and is lacking strong AoE. Also, a DoT in what is otherwise a healing/support/buff tree.

Malevolent Offering - At least one of the morphs should be capable of self-healing. It's barely even useful for PvE healing because you either have to ensure that you will never need to burst heal yourself (very difficult), or slot a second burst heal that you wouldn't need on any other class.

[Edited for baiting/bashing]

Your comments on malevolent offering are very misguided. If any form of that ability can self target, that would be incredibly broken. That is one of if not the most potent burst heal in throughput and application in the entire game.

Its usefulness in pve is subject to the same scrutiny as any other burst heal in the game ie most arent needed when groups are experienced where general aoe healing and hots covers the needs.

It is a very strong selfless heal in pvp that allows nb healers to fully benefit from siphoner passive and allows them 100 percent uptime on minor mending without digging into their magicka pool. It heals through walls and ignores elevation, unlike rushed ceremony, matriarch, shrooms, cauterize/obsidian shard and render flesh. The health cost of the skill is entirely manageable on a proper healing build in pvp. If I could heal myself with 10k offering crits every GCD under battle spirit debuff without touching my magicka pool, that would be hilarious.

exeeter702

Mayrael wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

[Snip]

I haven't played a NB in PvP in a while, but I have played one since the (well-deserved) nerfs you are all constantly complaining about. As far as I can tell, they're a little below average, but not nearly as bad as you people seem to think (I think years of being overpowered gave some of you inflated opinions of your own skills).

I'm actually open to the idea of buffing nightblades, generally, but all of the suggestions you people seem to come up with involve buffing abilities that are already powerful instead of fixing abilities that are real problems.

If I were you, I would focus on the following:

Mark Target - Who are you supposed to cast this on? Half of it's effect is most useful on targets that are hard to kill, while the other half requires the target to die. Once you account for the fact that it only works on one target at a time, it doesn't have much use for anybody.

Path of Darkness - A speed buff that requires you and your target to stay within a small area of effect.

Cripple - A very generic single-target DoT on a class that primarily relies on burst damage and is lacking strong AoE. Also, a DoT in what is otherwise a healing/support/buff tree.

Malevolent Offering - At least one of the morphs should be capable of self-healing. It's barely even useful for PvE healing because you either have to ensure that you will never need to burst heal yourself (very difficult), or slot a second burst heal that you wouldn't need on any other class.
[Edited for baiting/bashing]

And we can say the same. [snip] All skill you mentioned would require complete rework, not a buff because in current state they are useless no mater what except of some very narrow scenarios. Buffing skills nobody use because their basic functionality is total crap won't change anything.

Rework those unused completly or buff the ones that are used. That's the only right solution.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

People thinking refreshing path and malevolent offering are crap....

ESO_Nightingale

Langeston wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Swallow Soul currently does exactly the same amount of damage as all of the other ranged spammables in the game. What makes you think it deserves to be stronger than what everyone else has?

The short answer: because right now the class is complete garbage compared to every other magicka class in the game. (It's not even close to stam classes.)

Longer answer: Other classes don't rely on their spammable like magblades do. For the most part this is due to the fact that NBs have no delayed burst ability (Curse, Backlash, Shalks, etc.) and the hard hitting ability they do have requires you to play a convoluted mini game for at least 6 global cooldowns just to make it usable (that's the best case scenario, but good luck landing 5 LAs in 5 GCDs in a sweaty BG).

On my magsorc, for instance, Haunting Curse does roughly 14k, (twice) Crystal Frags does 20k, and Mages Wrath 19k total, and they can all land simultaneously. Throw Overload into the mix and that's 4 class abilities that add up to roughly 64k that can land within 1 GCD — something like that is not even close to possible on a magblade. Basically, on a magsorc the spammable is really only used to proc Crystal Frags.

The only other mag class I've played is my new warden (which is obviously a completely different playstyle) but having Shalks up every 3 GCDs feels amazing and with all the buffs it has (many of which NBs used to have) paired with insane ult regen and an overtuned ultimate like Permafrost, my magblade feels like a toy by comparison.

Take a look at the magblade toolkit and try to figure out a way to do as much damage with it as Purifying Light>Toppling Charge>Crescent Sweep>Puncturing Sweep. (Don't even bother adding in an execute, I'm already dead lol.)

This doesn't take into consideration the fact that our entire toolkit is single target and easily dodged or that we need to use Swallow Soul because our healing is so bad compared to other classes. Magblade is just in a really bad place right now, and honestly should get a complete rework — it just can't compete with the other classes at this point. But since a rework is not forthcoming, I don't think a buff to Swallow Soul is too much to ask for.

why are you using permafrost on your magden? northern storm is better for a damage dealer.

Langeston

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Swallow Soul currently does exactly the same amount of damage as all of the other ranged spammables in the game. What makes you think it deserves to be stronger than what everyone else has?

The short answer: because right now the class is complete garbage compared to every other magicka class in the game. (It's not even close to stam classes.)

Longer answer: Other classes don't rely on their spammable like magblades do. For the most part this is due to the fact that NBs have no delayed burst ability (Curse, Backlash, Shalks, etc.) and the hard hitting ability they do have requires you to play a convoluted mini game for at least 6 global cooldowns just to make it usable (that's the best case scenario, but good luck landing 5 LAs in 5 GCDs in a sweaty BG).

On my magsorc, for instance, Haunting Curse does roughly 14k, (twice) Crystal Frags does 20k, and Mages Wrath 19k total, and they can all land simultaneously. Throw Overload into the mix and that's 4 class abilities that add up to roughly 64k that can land within 1 GCD — something like that is not even close to possible on a magblade. Basically, on a magsorc the spammable is really only used to proc Crystal Frags.

The only other mag class I've played is my new warden (which is obviously a completely different playstyle) but having Shalks up every 3 GCDs feels amazing and with all the buffs it has (many of which NBs used to have) paired with insane ult regen and an overtuned ultimate like Permafrost, my magblade feels like a toy by comparison.

Take a look at the magblade toolkit and try to figure out a way to do as much damage with it as Purifying Light>Toppling Charge>Crescent Sweep>Puncturing Sweep. (Don't even bother adding in an execute, I'm already dead lol.)

This doesn't take into consideration the fact that our entire toolkit is single target and easily dodged or that we need to use Swallow Soul because our healing is so bad compared to other classes. Magblade is just in a really bad place right now, and honestly should get a complete rework — it just can't compete with the other classes at this point. But since a rework is not forthcoming, I don't think a buff to Swallow Soul is too much to ask for.

why are you using permafrost on your magden? northern storm is better for a damage dealer.

Sorry, I am using Northern Storm.

Mayrael

exeeter702 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

[Snip]

I haven't played a NB in PvP in a while, but I have played one since the (well-deserved) nerfs you are all constantly complaining about. As far as I can tell, they're a little below average, but not nearly as bad as you people seem to think (I think years of being overpowered gave some of you inflated opinions of your own skills).

I'm actually open to the idea of buffing nightblades, generally, but all of the suggestions you people seem to come up with involve buffing abilities that are already powerful instead of fixing abilities that are real problems.

If I were you, I would focus on the following:

Mark Target - Who are you supposed to cast this on? Half of it's effect is most useful on targets that are hard to kill, while the other half requires the target to die. Once you account for the fact that it only works on one target at a time, it doesn't have much use for anybody.

Path of Darkness - A speed buff that requires you and your target to stay within a small area of effect.

Cripple - A very generic single-target DoT on a class that primarily relies on burst damage and is lacking strong AoE. Also, a DoT in what is otherwise a healing/support/buff tree.

Malevolent Offering - At least one of the morphs should be capable of self-healing. It's barely even useful for PvE healing because you either have to ensure that you will never need to burst heal yourself (very difficult), or slot a second burst heal that you wouldn't need on any other class.
[Edited for baiting/bashing]

And we can say the same. [snip] All skill you mentioned would require complete rework, not a buff because in current state they are useless no mater what except of some very narrow scenarios. Buffing skills nobody use because their basic functionality is total crap won't change anything.

Rework those unused completly or buff the ones that are used. That's the only right solution.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

People thinking refreshing path and malevolent offering are crap....

If you want to be anything beside of pocket healer which is the only thing magblade can do decent, then yes, these are crap. Both are pretty useless in PvP (as I said, except of the case when you just run behind people and try to keep them alive) if you not dedicate whole build for being healer. It would be nice if NBs could be again as other classes decent tanks and damage dealers in PvP to.

NBs used to be the best single target class, but ZOS destroyed this class patch after patch without real reason. Now other classes can not only be better at killing single targets but whole groups of them... Brilliant.

exeeter702

Mayrael wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

[Snip]

I haven't played a NB in PvP in a while, but I have played one since the (well-deserved) nerfs you are all constantly complaining about. As far as I can tell, they're a little below average, but not nearly as bad as you people seem to think (I think years of being overpowered gave some of you inflated opinions of your own skills).

I'm actually open to the idea of buffing nightblades, generally, but all of the suggestions you people seem to come up with involve buffing abilities that are already powerful instead of fixing abilities that are real problems.

If I were you, I would focus on the following:

Mark Target - Who are you supposed to cast this on? Half of it's effect is most useful on targets that are hard to kill, while the other half requires the target to die. Once you account for the fact that it only works on one target at a time, it doesn't have much use for anybody.

Path of Darkness - A speed buff that requires you and your target to stay within a small area of effect.

Cripple - A very generic single-target DoT on a class that primarily relies on burst damage and is lacking strong AoE. Also, a DoT in what is otherwise a healing/support/buff tree.

Malevolent Offering - At least one of the morphs should be capable of self-healing. It's barely even useful for PvE healing because you either have to ensure that you will never need to burst heal yourself (very difficult), or slot a second burst heal that you wouldn't need on any other class.
[Edited for baiting/bashing]

And we can say the same. [snip] All skill you mentioned would require complete rework, not a buff because in current state they are useless no mater what except of some very narrow scenarios. Buffing skills nobody use because their basic functionality is total crap won't change anything.

Rework those unused completly or buff the ones that are used. That's the only right solution.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

People thinking refreshing path and malevolent offering are crap....

If you want to be anything beside of pocket healer which is the only thing magblade can do decent, then yes, these are crap. Both are pretty useless in PvP (as I said, except of the case when you just run behind people and try to keep them alive) if you not dedicate whole build for being healer. It would be nice if NBs could be again as other classes decent tanks and damage dealers in PvP to.

NBs used to be the best single target class, but ZOS destroyed this class patch after patch without real reason. Now other classes can not only be better at killing single targets but whole groups of them... Brilliant.

Refreshing path and offering are specifically made for healers so im not sure what point is being made here. They are not trash and you do not need to be a pocket healer to make use of them as a healer in pvp as not all healers are pocket healbots. NB moreso than any other healer actually is afforded the ability to play more actively and actually possess a form of leathal to assist in small scale groups. .

Saubon

Honestly I don't think this is just a number issue. AFAIK Zos never stated how pvp NB is supposed to be played. NB constantly gets buffs towards ganking/bombig and direct/indirect nerfs to any other playstyle. Even new grim focus change is a pvp nerf

Mayrael

exeeter702 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

[Snip]

I haven't played a NB in PvP in a while, but I have played one since the (well-deserved) nerfs you are all constantly complaining about. As far as I can tell, they're a little below average, but not nearly as bad as you people seem to think (I think years of being overpowered gave some of you inflated opinions of your own skills).

I'm actually open to the idea of buffing nightblades, generally, but all of the suggestions you people seem to come up with involve buffing abilities that are already powerful instead of fixing abilities that are real problems.

If I were you, I would focus on the following:

Mark Target - Who are you supposed to cast this on? Half of it's effect is most useful on targets that are hard to kill, while the other half requires the target to die. Once you account for the fact that it only works on one target at a time, it doesn't have much use for anybody.

Path of Darkness - A speed buff that requires you and your target to stay within a small area of effect.

Cripple - A very generic single-target DoT on a class that primarily relies on burst damage and is lacking strong AoE. Also, a DoT in what is otherwise a healing/support/buff tree.

Malevolent Offering - At least one of the morphs should be capable of self-healing. It's barely even useful for PvE healing because you either have to ensure that you will never need to burst heal yourself (very difficult), or slot a second burst heal that you wouldn't need on any other class.
[Edited for baiting/bashing]

And we can say the same. [snip] All skill you mentioned would require complete rework, not a buff because in current state they are useless no mater what except of some very narrow scenarios. Buffing skills nobody use because their basic functionality is total crap won't change anything.

Rework those unused completly or buff the ones that are used. That's the only right solution.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

People thinking refreshing path and malevolent offering are crap....

If you want to be anything beside of pocket healer which is the only thing magblade can do decent, then yes, these are crap. Both are pretty useless in PvP (as I said, except of the case when you just run behind people and try to keep them alive) if you not dedicate whole build for being healer. It would be nice if NBs could be again as other classes decent tanks and damage dealers in PvP to.

NBs used to be the best single target class, but ZOS destroyed this class patch after patch without real reason. Now other classes can not only be better at killing single targets but whole groups of them... Brilliant.

Refreshing path and offering are specifically made for healers so im not sure what point is being made here. They are not trash and you do not need to be a pocket healer to make use of them as a healer in pvp as not all healers are pocket healbots. NB moreso than any other healer actually is afforded the ability to play more actively and actually possess a form of leathal to assist in small scale groups. .

Point is that matriarch heal, breath of life, ritual, cauterise, fragmented shield, fungal growth, healing seed, living vines, render flesh, life and death, mender, restoring tether - these all skills are great for healer AND great for single player as heals. I get it, NBs have cloak! Ok then, fine, we can't have burst self-heal, but can we at least be deadly again? If we could actually make pressure we wouldn't have to heal so much, can our burst be more reliable? I'm not saying turn it into undodgeable stuff, but give us one undodgeable nuke that can't be spammed like all other classes have, give us reliable spamable that isn't slow as balloon floating to kid, give us reliable gap closer that doesn't have hidden cast time so we can actually stay on running away opponent, give us better execute skill that scales like executioner or poison injection. Make magblades deadly so our enemy can't negate all we have with one dodge roll...

Rianai

Having having played myself and played with both magblade healer and magplar healer, i'd take the latter all day long from either perspective (and i used to love nb healing). Yes, nb can heal just fine. So can anyone else. But other classes can bring more utility and/or more dmg than a support nb, so i don't really see a reason to bring one other than doing it for the sake of doing it.

exeeter702

Mayrael wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

[Snip]

I haven't played a NB in PvP in a while, but I have played one since the (well-deserved) nerfs you are all constantly complaining about. As far as I can tell, they're a little below average, but not nearly as bad as you people seem to think (I think years of being overpowered gave some of you inflated opinions of your own skills).

I'm actually open to the idea of buffing nightblades, generally, but all of the suggestions you people seem to come up with involve buffing abilities that are already powerful instead of fixing abilities that are real problems.

If I were you, I would focus on the following:

Mark Target - Who are you supposed to cast this on? Half of it's effect is most useful on targets that are hard to kill, while the other half requires the target to die. Once you account for the fact that it only works on one target at a time, it doesn't have much use for anybody.

Path of Darkness - A speed buff that requires you and your target to stay within a small area of effect.

Cripple - A very generic single-target DoT on a class that primarily relies on burst damage and is lacking strong AoE. Also, a DoT in what is otherwise a healing/support/buff tree.

Malevolent Offering - At least one of the morphs should be capable of self-healing. It's barely even useful for PvE healing because you either have to ensure that you will never need to burst heal yourself (very difficult), or slot a second burst heal that you wouldn't need on any other class.
[Edited for baiting/bashing]

And we can say the same. [snip] All skill you mentioned would require complete rework, not a buff because in current state they are useless no mater what except of some very narrow scenarios. Buffing skills nobody use because their basic functionality is total crap won't change anything.

Rework those unused completly or buff the ones that are used. That's the only right solution.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

People thinking refreshing path and malevolent offering are crap....

If you want to be anything beside of pocket healer which is the only thing magblade can do decent, then yes, these are crap. Both are pretty useless in PvP (as I said, except of the case when you just run behind people and try to keep them alive) if you not dedicate whole build for being healer. It would be nice if NBs could be again as other classes decent tanks and damage dealers in PvP to.

NBs used to be the best single target class, but ZOS destroyed this class patch after patch without real reason. Now other classes can not only be better at killing single targets but whole groups of them... Brilliant.

Refreshing path and offering are specifically made for healers so im not sure what point is being made here. They are not trash and you do not need to be a pocket healer to make use of them as a healer in pvp as not all healers are pocket healbots. NB moreso than any other healer actually is afforded the ability to play more actively and actually possess a form of leathal to assist in small scale groups. .

Point is that matriarch heal, breath of life, ritual, cauterise, fragmented shield, fungal growth, healing seed, living vines, render flesh, life and death, mender, restoring tether - these all skills are great for healer AND great for single player as heals. I get it, NBs have cloak! Ok then, fine, we can't have burst self-heal, but can we at least be deadly again? If we could actually make pressure we wouldn't have to heal so much, can our burst be more reliable? I'm not saying turn it into undodgeable stuff, but give us one undodgeable nuke that can't be spammed like all other classes have, give us reliable spamable that isn't slow as balloon floating to kid, give us reliable gap closer that doesn't have hidden cast time so we can actually stay on running away opponent, give us better execute skill that scales like executioner or poison injection. Make magblades deadly so our enemy can't negate all we have with one dodge roll...

If zos fixed magblade they wouldnt need a self burst heal ofc. Part of how magblades used to excel was through self floating hots and attrition, that is what needs to return, the ability to actually joust again along with fixing their vulnerability to dodge. I was just trying to stress that offering for example is not a weak skill by any stretch of the imagination and its use case is very clear. There is an actual engaging interplay between offerings price to use and NBs various skills to compensate it via dark cloak, swallow soul, siphoning attacks and path. It's a risk reward design that is all too missing in the game regarding class interplay.

Healer magblades dont need a self burst heal and non cloak damage focused magblades need their unique self sustain hot tools returned/bolstered to what they once were.

Mortiis13

For a proper burst on my magblade using destro staff I need to do

(buffing and shade place)
1.La> swallow (when ultimate isn't rdy)
2.{HA > la> lotusfan> la>concealed}-- hits almost at the same time = the burst phase
3. (La> ultimate) >la> bow >la> execute(if slotted I don't use it)
4. Enemy dead or shade away/cloak repeat

I rly like the way u can play a magblade (it feels like redmage from final fantasy) but it's burst is so heavily telegraphed, against better players I just cloak away cause the fight will be endlessly or done in a sec when I did a mistake (or cloak bugged) cause of the lack of self healing

xXMeowMeowXx

Langeston wrote: »

I think a simple increase to the base damage and percent healing done by Swallow Soul would be a very welcome improvement to PVP Magblades.



[edit]
Also, the description of the ability says:

Steal an enemy's life force, dealing 763 Magic Damage and healing you for 35% of the damage inflicted every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.

as such, it is definitely not a projectile — in fact it's pretty much as close to being the polar opposite of a projectile as you can get.

Yh this would be a decent change @Langeston

magblades are in dire need of some well deserved luv

WiredandTired

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

I think a simple increase to the base damage and percent healing done by Swallow Soul would be a very welcome improvement to PVP Magblades.



[edit]
Also, the description of the ability says:

Steal an enemy's life force, dealing 763 Magic Damage and healing you for 35% of the damage inflicted every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.

as such, it is definitely not a projectile — in fact it's pretty much as close to being the polar opposite of a projectile as you can get.

Yh this would be a decent change @Langeston

magblades are in dire need of some well deserved luv

Wild idea for swallow soul differentiation would be to give it a shield component. Drain the essence of the enemy and use it as a heal + shield in a new iteration. Lore-wise it would work as the siphoning tree is draining power and using it for themselves for offense/defense. From the PvE point of view, it would make it the prime spammable for solo/survivability toolkit.

PvP would be a step in the right direction to restore the popular attrition/outlast playstyle for pvp. With the Greymoor nerf to healing, magblades needs some buffs to survivability.