Vicious Death Changes

SodanTok

Joy_Division wrote: »

This set has one of the easiest counters out there: remove yourself from the faction stack.

BS. Only way to counter this set is to not play. Being next to 1 person that dies already approaches lethal levels with this change.

fred4

I've occasionally been bombed successfully. I've lately ALWAYS heard that Proxy Det sound beforehand and kicked myself for being in chat or having momentarily lifted my hands off the keyboard while standing on a flag. It is SO simple. You hear that, you dodge roll or block. I suppose if it's more than one coordinated bomber you might still be in trouble, but that's really rare. What you can't do is listen to music in your headphones or turn up Discord so much versus the game, that you can't hear the in-game sounds anymore. If you don't hear the Proxy Det, you'll hear the sound of Cloak. You don't really have any excuse, as far as I'm concerned, even when you are quite bunched up on a flag. What's also interesting is that they haven't increased the range of Vicious Death. The greater range was the biggest factor for the set being more effective in the past. So, no, I'm not worried. By the way I don't and have never played a bomber. My main is a magblade, but this is not self-interest talking.

technohic

^ I dont think many are worried about the flag and door bombers that are little more than pests and accomplish little. More concerning is ball groups where they are in a spot you can't ignore like in a home help who often have these stacked up and even keeping the keep unflagged while they repeatedly bomb the transit shrine.

DocFrost72

SodanTok wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

This set has one of the easiest counters out there: remove yourself from the faction stack.

BS. Only way to counter this set is to not play. Being next to 1 person that dies already approaches lethal levels with this change.

Do your part to help stem the VD-20 virus; practice social distancing.

SodanTok

DocFrost72 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

This set has one of the easiest counters out there: remove yourself from the faction stack.

BS. Only way to counter this set is to not play. Being next to 1 person that dies already approaches lethal levels with this change.

Do your part to help stem the VD-20 virus; practice social distancing.

PvDoor is afterall promoted more and more with game changes, helps spread the server around and reduce lag

cheifsoap

Stop zerging with proxy det procs and you won't have much to worry about. Use PVP gear > PVE gear. Generally; take the time to learn how to properly PVP and you can avoid being bombed.

asneakybanana

Einheryar wrote: »

Vicious Death:
This set now grants an additional 1487 Spell Penetration on its 5 piece bonus.
Increased the damage done on kill to 22400, up from 15815.
Fixed an issue where this set had a lower chance of applying the Burning status effect than intended.

Currently Vicious Death can hit players in Cyrodiil for at least 76,389 flame damage in live. And they are adding a 2.97% damage bonus via spell pen to this, and increasing the proc damage to the set by over 141.6%? That would hit every player in range for ... 186,848 flame damage?

[snip]

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/hmpvlt/new_to_bombing_first_thicc_bomb/

This is striking me right now as how out of touch the dev team is with the state of the game. Anyone else's thoughts?

I am honestly hoping greatly that most of these set and ability "rebalance" changes do not make Live Server....

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

Your math needs a little bit of work, I have played a bomber for a long time and without any sort of huge buff damage buff such as major berserk, the highest I see is between 10-11k in a full damage focused build. And it is actually a 41.6% increase so even at worst case scenario it would be a max of 15k or so. Currently Harmony is a far bigger source of damage and they are nerfing that so it will be harder to get the KBs to proc VD.

Overall I think this is a nice change to the direction of PVP as it will reduce the absurdly strong power of Harmony while still deterring zergs from just stacking 100 people together in hopes of survival. Preventing groups from doing that greatly helps server performance and overall makes the game more action based rather than turtle and heal.

KappaKid83

VD has been under performing for quite some time, realistically since the set was "fixed" after its' release when it was bugged and doing a ton of damage. For solo bombers this is an awesome and welcome change, makes the set exciting again. It also will benefit coordinated groups having a few people run it while others run complimentary damage and support sets. Bravo on this change!

xXMeowMeowXx

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

"Get rid of zergs"

and

"Let solo players fight back against large groups"

Were definitely in mind with these changes. Considering that a bomber likely won't target a solo or small group of players, I'd say it'll be fun. Just...don't tighten up on flags in the foreseeable future.

This is a beautiful change going in the right direction....

Zergling debris is a good thing 🐙

Agree on that but... Ball Group themselves will use it & stack multiple Vicious Deaths...

So... In the end I don't like where it is going.
Vicious Death is probably the last pvp set I would think of if some one asked me "What set needs a buff ?"

Nah, I don’t really see that tbh. Ball groups have much better sets to run to cause way more havoc than limiting themselves....

It is in par with the other changes for niche builds.

I mean, taking out boosters and Zerglings solo or duo is needed. Not many players are good at saying hello, dancing on the corpses, and hopping away....it does take practice and effort.

This is a good decision on ZOS part

xXMeowMeowXx

Joy_Division wrote: »

This set has one of the easiest counters out there: remove yourself from the faction stack.

And as @Joy_Division said

Davadin

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

This set has one of the easiest counters out there: remove yourself from the faction stack.

And as @Joy_Division said

Nordic__Knights

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

lol. Vicious Death will be less of a counter to large groups, and rather a buff to large groups to demolish everyone in their path.

I agree. I think many players don't realize those ball groups are using Vicious Death, too. The changes will make it an even better set and probably every DD in a ball group will wear it. Bombers are niche, this set is actually worn by DD in large groups.

That's true but it's used by ball groups to eliminate other ball groups (and hapless PUG zergs) not to demolish soloists.

No ball group is going to waste an ult-dump on the troll tank or 1vX'er in the tower. They have bigger fish to fry.

guessing that group of 8 didnt know that or that group of 6 oh its only an solo player lets get him lol get real this aint going to help stop anything

pieratsos

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Einheryar wrote: »

So the counterplay to 24 organized players working together to achieve objectives, is a solo player with 3 activatable buttons so long as it is a magicka nightblade with a specific set of gear?

When capture points are the objective and the only way to capture things is to have players stack on them forcing players to bunch up so they get credit and so that the capture point is taken efficiently, having a single class and spec controlling whether everyone else can or cannot complete those is a fairly shallow design concept for "balance" I would say.

If you’re in a 24 man and die to 3-4 players you deserve to die, period.

Well not really. One person wiping an entire raid with the press of 2-3 buttons is equally dumb gameplay to ball groups.

ItsJustHashtag

pieratsos wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Einheryar wrote: »

So the counterplay to 24 organized players working together to achieve objectives, is a solo player with 3 activatable buttons so long as it is a magicka nightblade with a specific set of gear?

When capture points are the objective and the only way to capture things is to have players stack on them forcing players to bunch up so they get credit and so that the capture point is taken efficiently, having a single class and spec controlling whether everyone else can or cannot complete those is a fairly shallow design concept for "balance" I would say.

If you’re in a 24 man and die to 3-4 players you deserve to die, period.

Well not really. One person wiping an entire raid with the press of 2-3 buttons is equally dumb gameplay to ball groups.

Nope, nothing more dumb than wiping to 2-3 players while you’re in a 24 man.

pieratsos

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Einheryar wrote: »

So the counterplay to 24 organized players working together to achieve objectives, is a solo player with 3 activatable buttons so long as it is a magicka nightblade with a specific set of gear?

When capture points are the objective and the only way to capture things is to have players stack on them forcing players to bunch up so they get credit and so that the capture point is taken efficiently, having a single class and spec controlling whether everyone else can or cannot complete those is a fairly shallow design concept for "balance" I would say.

If you’re in a 24 man and die to 3-4 players you deserve to die, period.

Well not really. One person wiping an entire raid with the press of 2-3 buttons is equally dumb gameplay to ball groups.

Nope, nothing more dumb than wiping to 2-3 players while you’re in a 24 man.

Well that's exactly what I said. A couple of people wiping an entire raid in a split second is dumb and most definitely not what we should have in mind when we are saying "make solo viable again"

DocFrost72

pieratsos wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Einheryar wrote: »

So the counterplay to 24 organized players working together to achieve objectives, is a solo player with 3 activatable buttons so long as it is a magicka nightblade with a specific set of gear?

When capture points are the objective and the only way to capture things is to have players stack on them forcing players to bunch up so they get credit and so that the capture point is taken efficiently, having a single class and spec controlling whether everyone else can or cannot complete those is a fairly shallow design concept for "balance" I would say.

If you’re in a 24 man and die to 3-4 players you deserve to die, period.

Well not really. One person wiping an entire raid with the press of 2-3 buttons is equally dumb gameplay to ball groups.

Keep in mind that the bomber can't then flip a keep, but that 24 man can flip a keep. A bomber is an obstacle only.

Barbaran

So, wasn't VD introduced years ago to combat the complaints of large zergs running around cyrodiil. In an attempt to break up the mob a bit.
That didn't work, everyone has just accepted VD wiping groups since then.
Seems like they are trying this tactic again.
MAYBE if it's SO strong that it only takes one death to wipe an entire group, people will.... 'social distance' a bit (I had to).
Let's see how that's plays out with the overwhelming Zerg mentality. They will prob just stack more mitigation and hope it's enough....smh