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PTS Update 27 - Feedback Thread for U28 Prologue Quest

ZOS_GinaBruno
ZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
This is the official feedback thread for the U28 prologue quest, A Gray Host Rises. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:
  • Did you have any trouble starting or completing the quest?
  • Do you have any other general feedback?
Edited by ZOS_GinaBruno on July 13, 2020 4:08AM
Gina Bruno
ESO Community Manager
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Staff Post
  • ListerJMC
    ListerJMC
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    Firstly, I really enjoyed the quest - I'm thrilled to have my favourite NPC back!

    But there was one thing that really bothered me: Verandis' voice acting sounds very different now. Was this intentional? It sounds like a different voice actor entirely, it's deeper and less... warm?

    Also, the map for Castle Grayhome is blank.

    Edit: I just checked and his voice acting was changed all throughout Rivenspire too?? I'm going to be honest, I'm not sure I like this new voice (it's not the new VA's fault and I'm sure there's a good reason for it! It just doesn't sound like Verandis at all and gives him a bit of a different air to the last one. One of the reasons I liked Verandis was due to the original VA, so I'm curious as to why it's changed if that's possible to know?).
    Edited by ListerJMC on July 14, 2020 3:28AM
    PC NA | Victory or Valhalla | PC EU | Altmer sorcerer mains
    "Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
  • TiaFrye
    TiaFrye
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    I had no prob with the quest nor any bugs I think. I hope that prologue will stick til EU copy because last time around it was here only for a week.

    I kinda liked the new voice for Verandis? It needs some getting used to but I'm sure that it will bright up my new Rivenspire re-run along the way with some fresh tunes. It is different but I realize that mr. Gatt voiced too many characters already and after that uncomfortable moment with Neramo and Raynor Vanos being in the same room, being voiced by a single man, I can see where this is going... Can we get a name for VO by any chance? I think I've heard Matt Mercer.
  • ListerJMC
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    TiaFrye wrote: »
    I kinda liked the new voice for Verandis? It needs some getting used to but I'm sure that it will bright up my new Rivenspire re-run along the way with some fresh tunes. It is different but I realize that mr. Gatt voiced too many characters already and after that uncomfortable moment with Neramo and Raynor Vanos being in the same room, being voiced by a single man, I can see where this is going... Can we get a name for VO by any chance? I think I've heard Matt Mercer.

    Oh, the new VA is by no means bad! He's clearly put in a lot of effort into the role and I don't intend to be mean about his work at all. I've now done all of Rivenspire and he's done a really good job with it, and I'm happy that no lines appear to have been cut out or changed.

    I'm just upset because a big part of the reason I fell in love with Verandis' character was due to how he was voiced, so this change hurts if I'm being honest. It would be nice to know why, I'm not the only one who's upset and confused by the decision.
    Edited by ListerJMC on July 18, 2020 3:33PM
    PC NA | Victory or Valhalla | PC EU | Altmer sorcerer mains
    "Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
  • RaddlemanNumber7
    RaddlemanNumber7
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    Did you have any trouble starting or completing the quest?

    Did it on a template that had done no other quests. I had no trouble at all starting and completing the quest. I didn't encounter any bugs or other mechanical issues.

    Do you have any other general feedback?

    Loved the island, both versions. I can see people wanting to hang around there for a bit.

    Loathed going so close to those locations where other quests happen such as Bangkorai Gate and Castle Ravenwatch. I really don't like all the convoluted shenanigans required to avoid bumping into anything related to those other quests. It's just bad story telling. It feels so fake.
    PC EU
  • Faulgor
    Faulgor
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    ListerJMC wrote: »
    Firstly, I really enjoyed the quest - I'm thrilled to have my favourite NPC back!

    But there was one thing that really bothered me: Verandis' voice acting sounds very different now. Was this intentional? It sounds like a different voice actor entirely, it's deeper and less... warm?

    Also, the map for Castle Grayhome is blank.

    Edit: I just checked and his voice acting was changed all throughout Rivenspire too?? I'm going to be honest, I'm not sure I like this new voice (it's not the new VA's fault and I'm sure there's a good reason for it! It just doesn't sound like Verandis at all and gives him a bit of a different air to the last one. One of the reasons I liked Verandis was due to the original VA, so I'm curious as to why it's changed if that's possible to know?).
    Wow. I thought he had a different VO because of current constraints due to the pandemic (as I understand, voice actors can't get into studios right now and they don't all have an appropriate setup at home). If they changed his voice in Rivenspire that's quite the commitment, so it seems they want to keep using him. Interesting.

    As for the quest, I enjoyed it more than any in Greymoor. I absolutely loved all the different characters in Grayhome!
    I did it on a non-vampire Template that hadn't done any prior quests, so I'm interested to see the differences with my live characters.

    I wonder how I'll feel about the Greymoor chapter after this year's story is concluded. As of right now, it seems like I wouldn't miss out on anything important by skipping from the Greymoor Prologue right to the Darkstorm Prologue - the Gray Host is reassembling, and we learn more about them in this prologue quest than the whole chapter. There are also strange redundancies that make it easy to forget about Greymoor entirely, like the existance of Grayhome - if the Gray Host has Greymoor Keep in Blackreach, why build another whole new secluded castle on an island?

    So, good job, I'll say. Looking forward to Darkstorm.
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • CoolBlast3
    CoolBlast3
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    Are Vampires truly meant to go to Coldharbour? This has never been out-right stated, unlike Lycanthropy and the Hunting Grounds. I don't think it'd make much sense for Lamae's vampires to become Molag Bal's slaves upon death. Besides that, all good.
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    I really didn't like the Coldharbour thing either becuase Azura does mention they are free on death. That and how the condition works. There is a reason why Hircine is able to do it and the mechanic on it is quite clear that isn't the case with vampires. Also got to consider the other deals made by vampires with other Daedric prince and the fact you don't even need a daedric prince to become a vampire. Given the whole prince of @!^% thing I wouldn't go putting that in the lore I would personally take that out or make mention only those who made deals with Molag Bal go to Coldharbour.
    Edited by Thevampirenight on July 14, 2020 10:33PM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    ListerJMC wrote: »
    But there was one thing that really bothered me: Verandis' voice acting sounds very different now. Was this intentional? It sounds like a different voice actor entirely, it's deeper and less... warm?

    Also, the map for Castle Grayhome is blank.

    Edit: I just checked and his voice acting was changed all throughout Rivenspire too?? I'm going to be honest, I'm not sure I like this new voice (it's not the new VA's fault and I'm sure there's a good reason for it! It just doesn't sound like Verandis at all and gives him a bit of a different air to the last one. One of the reasons I liked Verandis was due to the original VA, so I'm curious as to why it's changed if that's possible to know?).

    My guess is they couldn't get the original VA back, so rather than break continuity they revoiced his Rivenspire appearances too.
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
    Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    This is the official feedback thread for the U28 prologue quest, A Gray Host Rises.[/list]
    That's... not the quest I did. The ones I did were The Ravenwatch Inquiry and The Gray Council. Was there supposed to be a third one?

    That aside, it all went well, nice to see once again that the Crown Store Quest Starter is unnecessary and you can still find them in the world. I also liked the Dream-Walk bit where you could go around and meet all the Gray Host including King Styriche.

    The final boss fight against Exarch Whatsisname in the Ritual Chamber was good but that batswarm ability is irritatingly unavoidable. Not a reason to change it, just an observation. I think one of the Exarch battles in Greymoor was the same.

    I wish you would keep a consistent spelling of Grey though!
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
    Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp
  • ListerJMC
    ListerJMC
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    Enodoc wrote: »
    ListerJMC wrote: »
    But there was one thing that really bothered me: Verandis' voice acting sounds very different now. Was this intentional? It sounds like a different voice actor entirely, it's deeper and less... warm?

    Also, the map for Castle Grayhome is blank.

    Edit: I just checked and his voice acting was changed all throughout Rivenspire too?? I'm going to be honest, I'm not sure I like this new voice (it's not the new VA's fault and I'm sure there's a good reason for it! It just doesn't sound like Verandis at all and gives him a bit of a different air to the last one. One of the reasons I liked Verandis was due to the original VA, so I'm curious as to why it's changed if that's possible to know?).

    My guess is they couldn't get the original VA back, so rather than break continuity they revoiced his Rivenspire appearances too.

    I hope it was something like that and not because they thought it needed "updating". Voice acting is one of the things that makes a character and I'd hate to think they took a decision like that lightly.

    As another piece of feedback - I did it again while grouped with a friend, and when we were in Viridian Watch the second last sigil bugged out. The quest marker told us to go back to the previous sigil, but Gwendis kept telling us to go forward to the next sigil and the map didn't update either way. The issue was only fixed when we got to the final room.
    Edited by ListerJMC on July 20, 2020 2:17PM
    PC NA | Victory or Valhalla | PC EU | Altmer sorcerer mains
    "Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
  • mrsrobot
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    Did you have any trouble starting or completing the quest?
    No, it was great fun.
    Do you have any other general feedback?
    There was a floating cupboard opposite the door to Verandis' study in castle Grayhome. The whole quest was very enjoyable and well written.
  • TiaFrye
    TiaFrye
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    Faulgor wrote: »
    There are also strange redundancies that make it easy to forget about Greymoor entirely, like the existance of Grayhome - if the Gray Host has Greymoor Keep in Blackreach, why build another whole new secluded castle on an island

    Greymoor Castle is directly under Solitude which is important for the main story. It's also a huge gap in timeline in between those, as their original purpose.

    Enodoc wrote: »
    ListerJMC wrote: »
    But there was one thing that really bothered me: Verandis' voice acting sounds very different now. Was this intentional? It sounds like a different voice actor entirely, it's deeper and less... warm?

    Also, the map for Castle Grayhome is blank.

    Edit: I just checked and his voice acting was changed all throughout Rivenspire too?? I'm going to be honest, I'm not sure I like this new voice (it's not the new VA's fault and I'm sure there's a good reason for it! It just doesn't sound like Verandis at all and gives him a bit of a different air to the last one. One of the reasons I liked Verandis was due to the original VA, so I'm curious as to why it's changed if that's possible to know?).

    My guess is they couldn't get the original VA back, so rather than break continuity they revoiced his Rivenspire appearances too.

    That might be the case. They couldn't get Rigurt for his cameo in the last MQ quest, so they removed him entirely after the first week in PTS I believe. But you can't delete a main character, so.

    But I also suspect that let's say "a characterization turn" is in the works. Many of the people I know knew Verandis from the base game and impression we got back in the days of 2014 was "he's not a saint". TES vampires are a bit different than classic ones, so they probably couldn't reject human/mer blood entirely, and domination vs consent will be a show-off for his high goodness here. But Gatt gave him some playful and smug vibes during dialogue in which player can confront him about his condition. I've yet to make a fast-run of the few Rivenspire starting quests to see how new version of the same conversation sounds like, but given "tired Jesus" vibes his new backstory and VO give now, I wonder if it changed accordingly.
    Edited by TiaFrye on July 15, 2020 4:17AM
  • RoterStaub
    RoterStaub
    Soul Shriven
    TiaFrye wrote: »
    I've yet to make a fast-run of the few Rivenspire starting quests to see how new version of the same conversation sounds like, but given "tired Jesus" vibes his new backstory and VO give now, I wonder if it changed accordingly.

    One of the first things I did was go and check Rivenspire when I noticed the new VO. He's definitely more tired sounding in places, but his writing is unchanged as far as I can tell and it keeps him a bit more lively than other quest npcs. I actually think he's a bit more smug now at the very end if you threaten him for being a vampire, and he still gets huffy if you ask too many questions at Lorkrata.

    I'm on my second run through Rivenspire right now because my OBS broke the first time around, and long story short, it's grown on me. It also helps that I'm about 98% sure it's Matt Mercer.

    Currently I'm chalking up the intonation/tone shift in his prologue dialogue to the fact that he has either caught an unknown person digging through his past and is less than pleased, or has just been resurrected from the dead, presumably freeing him pretty suddenly from whatever torture flavor of the week he was dealing with. In the second case he's also probably still a bit hangry even after getting some sense knocked back into him
  • bharathitman
    bharathitman
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    If you port out to another location from Grayhome while you are still in the quest, it's not immediately apparent how you can get back to Grayhome. There is no map marker that tells you to go back to the cart location in front of the Ravenwatch castle
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    TiaFrye wrote: »
    2dl80bbjcg95.jpg

    Mages Guild was founded in 2E 230, while the letter itself must be dated around 1E 129.
    Please, edit this one!

    this
    Zebendal- Stam Sorc, PC NA
  • Faulgor
    Faulgor
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    TiaFrye wrote: »
    Faulgor wrote: »
    There are also strange redundancies that make it easy to forget about Greymoor entirely, like the existance of Grayhome - if the Gray Host has Greymoor Keep in Blackreach, why build another whole new secluded castle on an island

    Greymoor Castle is directly under Solitude which is important for the main story. It's also a huge gap in timeline in between those, as their original purpose.
    Well that's what I was saying, the "main story" could be omitted without much issue, and it seems redundant story-wise to have two huge spooky vampire castles in the year long story (3 with Castle Thorn), and from an in-universe perspective: Why would they invest so much into building Grayhome when they have Greymoor Keep? Or don't they? Greymoor Keep and its origins weren't that well explored, it's just said it was already there when the Dwemer came to Blackreach.

    But none of that is really an issue for the Prologue quest and the topic of this thread, so, whatever.
    TiaFrye wrote: »
    Mages Guild was founded in 2E 230, while the letter itself must be dated around 1E 129.
    Please, edit this one!
    I think you dropped a zero - shouldn't it be 1E 1029?
    Regardless, you're absolutely right, no Mage's Guild around Hestra's rule or any point in the 1st era.
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • TiaFrye
    TiaFrye
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    Faulgor wrote: »
    TiaFrye wrote: »
    Faulgor wrote: »
    There are also strange redundancies that make it easy to forget about Greymoor entirely, like the existance of Grayhome - if the Gray Host has Greymoor Keep in Blackreach, why build another whole new secluded castle on an island

    Greymoor Castle is directly under Solitude which is important for the main story. It's also a huge gap in timeline in between those, as their original purpose.
    Well that's what I was saying, the "main story" could be omitted without much issue, and it seems redundant story-wise to have two huge spooky vampire castles in the year long story (3 with Castle Thorn), and from an in-universe perspective: Why would they invest so much into building Grayhome when they have Greymoor Keep? Or don't they? Greymoor Keep and its origins weren't that well explored, it's just said it was already there when the Dwemer came to Blackreach.

    But none of that is really an issue for the Prologue quest and the topic of this thread, so, whatever.
    TiaFrye wrote: »
    Mages Guild was founded in 2E 230, while the letter itself must be dated around 1E 129.
    Please, edit this one!
    I think you dropped a zero - shouldn't it be 1E 1029?
    Regardless, you're absolutely right, no Mage's Guild around Hestra's rule or any point in the 1st era.

    Greymoor isn't theirs. It was someone else's at the start. Essenia just claimed it sometime around the events of the game or s bit earlier, can't remember. Greyhome on the other hand was initial base of operation, plus now we have it either with Verandis' protections placed around (non complited Rivenspire) or with his reliquary itself in the centre of the "maze" which is not vise to keep around anyway. So everything seems logical to me honestly.

    And ye, sorry, I guess I've dropped a number. Will edit right away.
    Edited by TiaFrye on July 17, 2020 8:07AM
  • Xologamer
    Xologamer
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    This is the official feedback thread for the U28 prologue quest, A Gray Host Rises. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:
    • Did you have any trouble starting or completing the quest?
    • Do you have any other general feedback?

    did not even know that it existed
    vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL HM | vHoF | vAS+2 | vCR+1 | vBRP | vSS Fire/Ice HM | all Dungeon HM
    | Dro-mA'thra Destroyer |

    Buff NB

    Remove Allianz Lock
  • RaddlemanNumber7
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    .
    TiaFrye wrote: »
    2dl80bbjcg95.jpg

    Mages Guild was founded in 2E 230, while the letter itself must be dated around 1E 1029.
    Please, edit this one!

    I don't see a problem with this mention of "the Mages Guild" in that letter from the First Era. The only thing it implies is that there was some kind of establishment called a "Mages Guild" somewhere on Tamriel in that time, and that Rada-al-Saran and Verandis were both familiar enough with it to use the definite article to reference it.

    Just because that vain *** Galerion claimed to have founded "The Mages Guild" in 2E 230, it doesn't mean there was never anything called a "mages guild" anywhere on Tamriel at any time before that. That would be an extraordinary assumption.

    What I do find odd with Grayhome is that it was built on an island far beyond the northern coast of Tamriel. King Styrich of Verkarth was the leader of the Gray Host at that time, so why is he not gathering his forces in Verkarth? The Lore says that was where Hestra's forces encountered the Gray Host, at Verkarth.

    And all this great ethical debate about peace with mortals. What's that all about? It's just the direct opposite of how vampires are supposed to behave. Whatever happened to brutality and domination? Verandis might be a bit of a snowflake, but why are any of the other Gray Host leaders even listening to him.
    PC EU
  • AKB
    AKB
    TiaFrye wrote: »
    2dl80bbjcg95.jpg

    Mages Guild was founded in 2E 230, while the letter itself must be dated around 1E 1029.
    Please, edit this one!

    Came by here to say this one! The Mages Guild did not exist in the First Era. There's also enough lore talking about how unprecedented the idea was to safely rule out a previously unheard of First Era Mages Guild. And if there was to be one added in, I would say a single off-hand mention in a letter is probably not the best way to establish it.
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    .
    TiaFrye wrote: »
    2dl80bbjcg95.jpg

    Mages Guild was founded in 2E 230, while the letter itself must be dated around 1E 1029.
    Please, edit this one!

    I don't see a problem with this mention of "the Mages Guild" in that letter from the First Era. The only thing it implies is that there was some kind of establishment called a "Mages Guild" somewhere on Tamriel in that time, and that Rada-al-Saran and Verandis were both familiar enough with it to use the definite article to reference it.

    Just because that vain *** Galerion claimed to have founded "The Mages Guild" in 2E 230, it doesn't mean there was never anything called a "mages guild" anywhere on Tamriel at any time before that. That would be an extraordinary assumption.

    What I do find odd with Grayhome is that it was built on an island far beyond the northern coast of Tamriel. King Styrich of Verkarth was the leader of the Gray Host at that time, so why is he not gathering his forces in Verkarth? The Lore says that was where Hestra's forces encountered the Gray Host, at Verkarth.

    And all this great ethical debate about peace with mortals. What's that all about? It's just the direct opposite of how vampires are supposed to behave. Whatever happened to brutality and domination? Verandis might be a bit of a snowflake, but why are any of the other Gray Host leaders even listening to him.

    Agree about Gray Home. As for Verandis they were not really listening to him. The only reason why they tolerated him was because of Rada. But it seems like they might be retconing it so Rada was the actual leader of the Gray Host and the king was a member.
    I didn't get to speak to the king in the prologue as I missed him. So I'm not sure on that exactly. But I do know from a screen shot he was there. Verandis was talking to him about this army he always wanted.
    Edited by Thevampirenight on July 17, 2020 2:41PM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • Legoless
    Legoless
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    Just because that vain *** Galerion claimed to have founded "The Mages Guild" in 2E 230, it doesn't mean there was never anything called a "mages guild" anywhere on Tamriel at any time before that. That would be an extraordinary assumption.
    Actually, that's a fair assumption to make when Galerion's entire legacy is bringing magical services to the common man. Tamriel did not have mages guilds before he founded the first one on Summerset.
  • ListerJMC
    ListerJMC
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    .
    TiaFrye wrote: »
    2dl80bbjcg95.jpg

    Mages Guild was founded in 2E 230, while the letter itself must be dated around 1E 1029.
    Please, edit this one!

    I don't see a problem with this mention of "the Mages Guild" in that letter from the First Era. The only thing it implies is that there was some kind of establishment called a "Mages Guild" somewhere on Tamriel in that time, and that Rada-al-Saran and Verandis were both familiar enough with it to use the definite article to reference it.

    Just because that vain *** Galerion claimed to have founded "The Mages Guild" in 2E 230, it doesn't mean there was never anything called a "mages guild" anywhere on Tamriel at any time before that. That would be an extraordinary assumption.

    What I do find odd with Grayhome is that it was built on an island far beyond the northern coast of Tamriel. King Styrich of Verkarth was the leader of the Gray Host at that time, so why is he not gathering his forces in Verkarth? The Lore says that was where Hestra's forces encountered the Gray Host, at Verkarth.

    And all this great ethical debate about peace with mortals. What's that all about? It's just the direct opposite of how vampires are supposed to behave. Whatever happened to brutality and domination? Verandis might be a bit of a snowflake, but why are any of the other Gray Host leaders even listening to him.

    Agree about Gray Home. As for Verandis they were not really listening to him. The only reason why they tolerated him was because of Rada. But it seems like they might be retconing it so Rada was the actual leader of the Gray Host and the king was a member.
    I didn't get to speak to the king in the prologue as I missed him. So I'm not sure on that exactly. But I do know from a screen shot he was there. Verandis was talking to him about this army he always wanted.

    That hasn't been changed - Styriche was still the overall leader, I'm guessing Rada must have been second-in-command since he appears to have been in charge of the Gray Council? But he and Verandis had some kind of alternate plan for the council which seemingly went against Styriche without his knowledge.

    The conversation with Styriche went along the lines of Verandis disapproving of his army and war plans, and Styriche saying Verandis is foolish to argue that they could live in peace with mortals and that war is the only way to achieve their safety. Styriche certainly wasn't impressed to see him back and Rada seems to be the only one who really liked having him around. The others seemed to either hate him or find him amusing.

    As a related aside, I saw Fangaril near Styriche but I couldn't find Zayzahad and I'm not sure if I missed him or he isn't there?
    PC NA | Victory or Valhalla | PC EU | Altmer sorcerer mains
    "Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
  • bluebird
    bluebird
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    I did it on a fresh char, and I'll check it on a completed-Rivenspire char when EU chars get copied. I'll be interested to see how the timeline issues will be handled with Verandis's return. For now:
    • Greyhome has no minimap, as others mentioned.
    • Also, Gwendis refers to the island as 'very gothic' in one of dialogue outside Greyhome after arriving... This should perhaps be changed for a more in-game appropriate descriptor?
  • Cellentel
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    I liked the question over all. It was story driven instead of fetch quest driven, and drawing off the best of the base game storylines (Rivenspire) to boot. That made it the best prologue we've seen so far. It was interesting meeting as friendlies some of the characters from Greymoor, although it highlighted how poorly developed they were. I expect we'll meet some of the other faces again in Q4.

    However, I'm confused on a couple of points (mentioned by other people above):
    • Who is actually in charge? Rada or King Styriche? Rada certainly seemed in change, but King Styriche is, well, a king?
    • What is the relationship between the Grey Council and the Grey Host?

    My interpretation was that the Grey Council was a parent organization to the Grey Host, with Styriche the head of the Host but the Rada the head of the overall council. However, this point seemed needlessly murky.

    Also, I haven't tried doing the quest on a character that hasn't completed the Rivenspire storyline, but I assume it would be incredibly confusing to do them in the reverse order. I'm fine with that (stories are better when they aren't forced into an arbitrary ordering) but it reinforces the need for some sort of global story guide for new players.
  • Faulgor
    Faulgor
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    Cellentel wrote: »
    I liked the question over all. It was story driven instead of fetch quest driven, and drawing off the best of the base game storylines (Rivenspire) to boot. That made it the best prologue we've seen so far. It was interesting meeting as friendlies some of the characters from Greymoor, although it highlighted how poorly developed they were. I expect we'll meet some of the other faces again in Q4.

    However, I'm confused on a couple of points (mentioned by other people above):
    • Who is actually in charge? Rada or King Styriche? Rada certainly seemed in change, but King Styriche is, well, a king?
    • What is the relationship between the Grey Council and the Grey Host?

    My interpretation was that the Grey Council was a parent organization to the Grey Host, with Styriche the head of the Host but the Rada the head of the overall council. However, this point seemed needlessly murky.

    Also, I haven't tried doing the quest on a character that hasn't completed the Rivenspire storyline, but I assume it would be incredibly confusing to do them in the reverse order. I'm fine with that (stories are better when they aren't forced into an arbitrary ordering) but it reinforces the need for some sort of global story guide for new players.

    I got the impression that the Gray Host is the army that King Styriche commands. I'm uncertain what power he holds over the others, but I think he's mainly the leader of the military forces, so more like a general. He's king over Verkarth in Hammerfell, not other vampires.
    I'm not sure there is such a thing as a head of the Grey Council. The whole organisation seemed to be largely absent of strict hierarchies, I imagine because they are all kind of immortal and threats of violence don't carry much weight among them. It's a more or less loose community of powerful people with different views on how to further the cause of their kin.
    Which seems more interesting to me than the previous idea we had of the Gray Host as an army of uniform evil lead by a single person.
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • ListerJMC
    ListerJMC
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    Cellentel wrote: »
    I haven't tried doing the quest on a character that hasn't completed the Rivenspire storyline, but I assume it would be incredibly confusing to do them in the reverse order. I'm fine with that (stories are better when they aren't forced into an arbitrary ordering) but it reinforces the need for some sort of global story guide for new players.

    If you do it on a character who hasn't done Rivenspire, you summon a random Exarch who you have to kill and Verandis shows up at the end saying that he was alerted to your presence when you smashed his wards. I just tried starting Rivenspire on a character who'd done the prologue but not Rivenspire, and neither Gwendis nor Verandis act as if they've met you before (at least not in the chapel). I'm guessing dialogue may be added after Q4?

    Very big agree from me that we need a zone release order guide in-game! I also like that you're not forced to do things in any particular order, but for continuity purposes I think it would really help new players. I have met a few new players who have been really confused by the ways in which NPCs do/don't recognise them, I know ZOS takes care with that but things do get missed! And it puts some characters in unusual circumstances, e.g. going back and forth between life and death, enemy and friend...

    And I'm assuming there's going to have to be an explanation given for players who skip the prologue and go straight to Q4. Very interested to see how the 'timeline' is explained in all orders.
    PC NA | Victory or Valhalla | PC EU | Altmer sorcerer mains
    "Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
  • ListerJMC
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    A little dialogue comment about the initial conversation with Gwendis - if you've done Rivenspire, Adusa-daro is in charge of the House. Gwendis says that the House is stretched thin so she's requesting outside aid, which is fine, but I'm confused as to why Adusa would be going to Elsweyr for moon sugar at a time like this?

    I mean I assume that she needed to be out of the picture because she'd probably have put the pieces together much faster than Gwendis given she's known Verandis longer and would be less... dramatic? About sneaking around looking for answers. But that excuse was a little odd to me.
    Edited by ListerJMC on July 20, 2020 6:36AM
    PC NA | Victory or Valhalla | PC EU | Altmer sorcerer mains
    "Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
  • TiaFrye
    TiaFrye
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    ListerJMC wrote: »
    A little dialogue comment about the initial conversation with Gwendis - if you've done Rivenspire, Adusa-daro is in charge of the House. Gwendis says that the House is stretched thin so she's requesting outside aid, which is fine, but I'm confused as to why Adusa would be going to Elsweyr for moon sugar at a time like this?

    I mean I assume that she needed to be out of the picture because she'd probably have put the pieces together much faster than Gwendis given she's known Verandis longer and would be less... dramatic? About sneaking around looking for answers. But that excuse was a little odd to me.

    I believe it was done for 2 purposes: 1) Namedrop Elsweyr and Adusa going here for necros and bone giants, moon shugar is Gwendis' assumption and most likely a joke; 2) Gwen is the haughty one, hating rules, and her reaction is what makes the plot a "working" one. Adusa would probably dropped an outsider just after finding the signet, but Gwen is too emotional not to rush up.

    And yes, we do need devs to start recommending canonical order for players because it's just spoilers all around.
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