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Radiant Mounts....
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AlienMagi✭✭✭The amount of people blindly defending such a bad business practice is really disappointing.
it seems like it will be a long while before this type of predatory monetization leaves the gaming industry and it will most likely happen after the gambling laws start to reform.
On a side note i would spend a lot more money in the game if i could actually buy the cool things that i actually want. But because most of them are expired or locked behind a gambling mechanic(crates) im barely spending any of my crowns.
Seems like a bad way to do business when i WANT to give them the money but they DONT want to sell me their limitless digital product for it. Why??Edited by AlienMagi on July 2, 2020 12:08AM4 -
JamieAubrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sargesgaming wrote: »JamieAubrey wrote: »This makes me getting a Radiant Mount in a FREE crate even better
*** ya dude! For real?!
Yeah, I might have the image saved still, was the Purple Psijic mount, I named him @Alcast after he failed to get one in his $150 Crate opening, I've been rocking this since I got it and only saw like 3 others with it
Edited by JamieAubrey on July 2, 2020 12:18AM2 -
JamieAubrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sargesgaming wrote: »Actually you can buy radiants with gems....
No you can't, not the 3 you see when browsing the crates, just the mounts that are worth 400 gems each1 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sargesgaming wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards. So
Step 1: flip 4 cards
Step 2: get items
Step 3: convert unwanted items to gems
Step 4: use gems to buy desired items
Step 5: #itsnotgambling
Saying " well people only buy the crown crates for the radiant apex" is very much false. I actually know very few people who care about those radiant apex and most i know will often want a legendary or lower reward from the crates. For some reason the adornments and such are really popular with people.
It really isnt the legal definition and not the only one that matters, so much so that it has been defined in countries and states instituting bills into affect and BANNING these types of games that have "lotto" type of "loot boxes\crates" within from the entire country for sales. In fact there is an entire FBI website dedicated to reporting, storing, and divulging of information upon this type of illegal activity. I can get you the link if you like?
Except your trying to lump ALL loot boxes together which would be like trying to lump all MMORPGs together. Crown crates are NOT like all lootboxs because "
1) You are paying for 4 cards to get a random item
2) You always win
3) You can trade any of the items from these 4 cards for gems and then exchange those for any other items that drop from those 4 cards.
Does not meet the legal definition of gambling.
The legal definition matters in the context of 'why is this not banned in every country'.Anotherone773 wrote: »
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards.
The general definition of gambling matters in the context of OP's post - they spent $1000 to get an Apex and didn't.
Gambling can be:
- play games of chance for money; bet. "he gambles on football"
- bet (a sum of money). "they gambled their money on cards"
- take risky action in the hope of a desired result. "he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel"
Your example doesn't mean gambling at all by my, or any definiton. You have to agree to get the car that was suggested for you. It's only gambling if you go to a dealership in the hopes of getting a random Ferrari, and for 20k they give you a random car (like a Hot Wheels toy). You're still gambling, even if you're guaranteed to get a consolation prize. Maybe not legally, but in all other senses of the word.
OP gambled his money away on the chance that he might get a Radiant Apex. That's the item this post is about, not random stuff you can get for Gems. They played a game of chance with RNG and lost. It happens.
Everything you described involved a risk. You risk a bet in the hopes of getting something better. That is the definition of gambling. You take a gamble.
Crown crates are not gambling because their is no risk of loss.
* You already loss and have no chance of even recovering your "bet" the moment you bought crowns
* It is impossible to open a crate and not get 4 items from an item pool.
* Even if you dont want the items, you can trade those items for a currency that you can use to purchase the item you do want. This currency transfers between "seasons" so your not even forced to spend it this season.
This entire thread is a " I want a radiant apex and you wont just let me buy one ( for a price i think i should pay) so its unfair and gambling and evil and ..." That sums up this entire thread. The entire reason this thread even exists is because the have nots want something from a bonus card without abiding by the rules for BONUS REWARDS. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on July 2, 2020 12:43PM0 -
bluebird✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Everything I described involved a risk, yes. Including Crown Crates.Anotherone773 wrote: »Sargesgaming wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards. So
Step 1: flip 4 cards
Step 2: get items
Step 3: convert unwanted items to gems
Step 4: use gems to buy desired items
Step 5: #itsnotgambling
Saying " well people only buy the crown crates for the radiant apex" is very much false. I actually know very few people who care about those radiant apex and most i know will often want a legendary or lower reward from the crates. For some reason the adornments and such are really popular with people.
It really isnt the legal definition and not the only one that matters, so much so that it has been defined in countries and states instituting bills into affect and BANNING these types of games that have "lotto" type of "loot boxes\crates" within from the entire country for sales. In fact there is an entire FBI website dedicated to reporting, storing, and divulging of information upon this type of illegal activity. I can get you the link if you like?
Except your trying to lump ALL loot boxes together which would be like trying to lump all MMORPGs together. Crown crates are NOT like all lootboxs because "
1) You are paying for 4 cards to get a random item
2) You always win
3) You can trade any of the items from these 4 cards for gems and then exchange those for any other items that drop from those 4 cards.
Does not meet the legal definition of gambling.
Everything you described involved a risk. You risk a bet in the hopes of getting something better. That is the definition of gambling. You take a gamble.
The legal definition matters in the context of 'why is this not banned in every country'.Anotherone773 wrote: »
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards.
The general definition of gambling matters in the context of OP's post - they spent $1000 to get an Apex and didn't.
Gambling can be:
- play games of chance for money; bet. "he gambles on football"
- bet (a sum of money). "they gambled their money on cards"
- take risky action in the hope of a desired result. "he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel"
Your example doesn't mean gambling at all by my, or any definiton. You have to agree to get the car that was suggested for you. It's only gambling if you go to a dealership in the hopes of getting a random Ferrari, and for 20k they give you a random car (like a Hot Wheels toy). You're still gambling, even if you're guaranteed to get a consolation prize. Maybe not legally, but in all other senses of the word.
OP gambled his money away on the chance that he might get a Radiant Apex. That's the item this post is about, not random stuff you can get for Gems. They played a game of chance with RNG and lost. It happens.
Crown crates are not gambling because their is no risk of loss.
* You already loss and have no chance of even recovering your "bet" the moment you bought crowns
* It is impossible to open a crate and not get 4 items from an item pool.
* Even if you dont want the items, you can trade those items for a currency that you can use to purchase the item you do want. This currency transfers between "seasons" so your not even forced to spend it this season.
That's why they are gambling, as you can see from the definitions of gambling that I copy-pasted.
Your counter-argument of 'everything is gambling with that logic' didn't involve a risk, because you went into a car dealership and you were offered an older model that you had money for. There was no chance nor risk involved in your example.
And for the last time, as so many others pointed out: you can NOT buy Radiant Apex with gems.
You're probably thinking of Apex of whatever, because everything you write is based on that false information.1 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Everything I described involved a risk, yes. Including Crown Crates.Anotherone773 wrote: »Sargesgaming wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards. So
Step 1: flip 4 cards
Step 2: get items
Step 3: convert unwanted items to gems
Step 4: use gems to buy desired items
Step 5: #itsnotgambling
Saying " well people only buy the crown crates for the radiant apex" is very much false. I actually know very few people who care about those radiant apex and most i know will often want a legendary or lower reward from the crates. For some reason the adornments and such are really popular with people.
It really isnt the legal definition and not the only one that matters, so much so that it has been defined in countries and states instituting bills into affect and BANNING these types of games that have "lotto" type of "loot boxes\crates" within from the entire country for sales. In fact there is an entire FBI website dedicated to reporting, storing, and divulging of information upon this type of illegal activity. I can get you the link if you like?
Except your trying to lump ALL loot boxes together which would be like trying to lump all MMORPGs together. Crown crates are NOT like all lootboxs because "
1) You are paying for 4 cards to get a random item
2) You always win
3) You can trade any of the items from these 4 cards for gems and then exchange those for any other items that drop from those 4 cards.
Does not meet the legal definition of gambling.
Everything you described involved a risk. You risk a bet in the hopes of getting something better. That is the definition of gambling. You take a gamble.
The legal definition matters in the context of 'why is this not banned in every country'.Anotherone773 wrote: »
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards.
The general definition of gambling matters in the context of OP's post - they spent $1000 to get an Apex and didn't.
Gambling can be:
- play games of chance for money; bet. "he gambles on football"
- bet (a sum of money). "they gambled their money on cards"
- take risky action in the hope of a desired result. "he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel"
Your example doesn't mean gambling at all by my, or any definiton. You have to agree to get the car that was suggested for you. It's only gambling if you go to a dealership in the hopes of getting a random Ferrari, and for 20k they give you a random car (like a Hot Wheels toy). You're still gambling, even if you're guaranteed to get a consolation prize. Maybe not legally, but in all other senses of the word.
OP gambled his money away on the chance that he might get a Radiant Apex. That's the item this post is about, not random stuff you can get for Gems. They played a game of chance with RNG and lost. It happens.
Crown crates are not gambling because their is no risk of loss.
* You already loss and have no chance of even recovering your "bet" the moment you bought crowns
* It is impossible to open a crate and not get 4 items from an item pool.
* Even if you dont want the items, you can trade those items for a currency that you can use to purchase the item you do want. This currency transfers between "seasons" so your not even forced to spend it this season.
That's why they are gambling, as you can see from the definitions of gambling that I copy-pasted.
Your counter-argument of 'everything is gambling with that logic' didn't involve a risk, because you went into a car dealership and you were offered an older model that you had money for. There was no chance nor risk involved in your example.
And for the last time, as so many others pointed out: you can NOT buy Radiant Apex with gems.
You're probably thinking of Apex of whatever, because everything you write is based on that false information.
No matter how many times you say " there is a risk" in crown crates. there is really isnt. You lost that money as soon you bought crowns. Im not thinking of Apex tier. Radiant Apex is not part of the normal crate item pool. You cannot get radiant apex on any of the 4 item cards that you pay for. You only get them on a 5th bonus card. The bonus card is a .... BONUS. The radiant apex a BONUS on a BONUS card. What you pay for are 4 NORMAL cards.
When i go to the store sometimes they have buy 4 packs of meat get a 5th pack free. That is a BONUS like a BONUS CARD in a crown crate. You pay for 4, sometimes you get 5. I dont go to the store and get 4 packs of meat and when they dont offer me the 5th, starting going on a tirade. I accept that the 5th pack is a bonus pack sometimes offered. The 5th card and the radiant apex that ONLY DROPS from that specific cards are bonuses.
0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Everything I described involved a risk, yes. Including Crown Crates.Anotherone773 wrote: »Sargesgaming wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards. So
Step 1: flip 4 cards
Step 2: get items
Step 3: convert unwanted items to gems
Step 4: use gems to buy desired items
Step 5: #itsnotgambling
Saying " well people only buy the crown crates for the radiant apex" is very much false. I actually know very few people who care about those radiant apex and most i know will often want a legendary or lower reward from the crates. For some reason the adornments and such are really popular with people.
It really isnt the legal definition and not the only one that matters, so much so that it has been defined in countries and states instituting bills into affect and BANNING these types of games that have "lotto" type of "loot boxes\crates" within from the entire country for sales. In fact there is an entire FBI website dedicated to reporting, storing, and divulging of information upon this type of illegal activity. I can get you the link if you like?
Except your trying to lump ALL loot boxes together which would be like trying to lump all MMORPGs together. Crown crates are NOT like all lootboxs because "
1) You are paying for 4 cards to get a random item
2) You always win
3) You can trade any of the items from these 4 cards for gems and then exchange those for any other items that drop from those 4 cards.
Does not meet the legal definition of gambling.
Everything you described involved a risk. You risk a bet in the hopes of getting something better. That is the definition of gambling. You take a gamble.
The legal definition matters in the context of 'why is this not banned in every country'.Anotherone773 wrote: »
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards.
The general definition of gambling matters in the context of OP's post - they spent $1000 to get an Apex and didn't.
Gambling can be:
- play games of chance for money; bet. "he gambles on football"
- bet (a sum of money). "they gambled their money on cards"
- take risky action in the hope of a desired result. "he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel"
Your example doesn't mean gambling at all by my, or any definiton. You have to agree to get the car that was suggested for you. It's only gambling if you go to a dealership in the hopes of getting a random Ferrari, and for 20k they give you a random car (like a Hot Wheels toy). You're still gambling, even if you're guaranteed to get a consolation prize. Maybe not legally, but in all other senses of the word.
OP gambled his money away on the chance that he might get a Radiant Apex. That's the item this post is about, not random stuff you can get for Gems. They played a game of chance with RNG and lost. It happens.
Crown crates are not gambling because their is no risk of loss.
* You already loss and have no chance of even recovering your "bet" the moment you bought crowns
* It is impossible to open a crate and not get 4 items from an item pool.
* Even if you dont want the items, you can trade those items for a currency that you can use to purchase the item you do want. This currency transfers between "seasons" so your not even forced to spend it this season.
That's why they are gambling, as you can see from the definitions of gambling that I copy-pasted.
Your counter-argument of 'everything is gambling with that logic' didn't involve a risk, because you went into a car dealership and you were offered an older model that you had money for. There was no chance nor risk involved in your example.
And for the last time, as so many others pointed out: you can NOT buy Radiant Apex with gems.
You're probably thinking of Apex of whatever, because everything you write is based on that false information.
It isn't gambling any more than Topp's Trading Cards or one of those gumball machines.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
Sargesgaming✭✭✭
Everything I described involved a risk, yes. Including Crown Crates.Anotherone773 wrote: »Sargesgaming wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards. So
Step 1: flip 4 cards
Step 2: get items
Step 3: convert unwanted items to gems
Step 4: use gems to buy desired items
Step 5: #itsnotgambling
Saying " well people only buy the crown crates for the radiant apex" is very much false. I actually know very few people who care about those radiant apex and most i know will often want a legendary or lower reward from the crates. For some reason the adornments and such are really popular with people.
It really isnt the legal definition and not the only one that matters, so much so that it has been defined in countries and states instituting bills into affect and BANNING these types of games that have "lotto" type of "loot boxes\crates" within from the entire country for sales. In fact there is an entire FBI website dedicated to reporting, storing, and divulging of information upon this type of illegal activity. I can get you the link if you like?
Except your trying to lump ALL loot boxes together which would be like trying to lump all MMORPGs together. Crown crates are NOT like all lootboxs because "
1) You are paying for 4 cards to get a random item
2) You always win
3) You can trade any of the items from these 4 cards for gems and then exchange those for any other items that drop from those 4 cards.
Does not meet the legal definition of gambling.
Everything you described involved a risk. You risk a bet in the hopes of getting something better. That is the definition of gambling. You take a gamble.
The legal definition matters in the context of 'why is this not banned in every country'.Anotherone773 wrote: »
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards.
The general definition of gambling matters in the context of OP's post - they spent $1000 to get an Apex and didn't.
Gambling can be:
- play games of chance for money; bet. "he gambles on football"
- bet (a sum of money). "they gambled their money on cards"
- take risky action in the hope of a desired result. "he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel"
Your example doesn't mean gambling at all by my, or any definiton. You have to agree to get the car that was suggested for you. It's only gambling if you go to a dealership in the hopes of getting a random Ferrari, and for 20k they give you a random car (like a Hot Wheels toy). You're still gambling, even if you're guaranteed to get a consolation prize. Maybe not legally, but in all other senses of the word.
OP gambled his money away on the chance that he might get a Radiant Apex. That's the item this post is about, not random stuff you can get for Gems. They played a game of chance with RNG and lost. It happens.
Crown crates are not gambling because their is no risk of loss.
* You already loss and have no chance of even recovering your "bet" the moment you bought crowns
* It is impossible to open a crate and not get 4 items from an item pool.
* Even if you dont want the items, you can trade those items for a currency that you can use to purchase the item you do want. This currency transfers between "seasons" so your not even forced to spend it this season.
That's why they are gambling, as you can see from the definitions of gambling that I copy-pasted.
Your counter-argument of 'everything is gambling with that logic' didn't involve a risk, because you went into a car dealership and you were offered an older model that you had money for. There was no chance nor risk involved in your example.
And for the last time, as so many others pointed out: you can NOT buy Radiant Apex with gems.
You're probably thinking of Apex of whatever, because everything you write is based on that false information.
Sent you a message, next time dont doubt me
0 -
bluebird✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Those are also gambling in a sense of the word, as you can see from the definitions I posted. Not the legal sense, but the general sense, the one with which we call Crown Crates gambling too.
It isn't gambling any more than Topp's Trading Cards or one of those gumball machines.
Everything I described involved a risk, yes. Including Crown Crates.Anotherone773 wrote: »Sargesgaming wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards. So
Step 1: flip 4 cards
Step 2: get items
Step 3: convert unwanted items to gems
Step 4: use gems to buy desired items
Step 5: #itsnotgambling
Saying " well people only buy the crown crates for the radiant apex" is very much false. I actually know very few people who care about those radiant apex and most i know will often want a legendary or lower reward from the crates. For some reason the adornments and such are really popular with people.
It really isnt the legal definition and not the only one that matters, so much so that it has been defined in countries and states instituting bills into affect and BANNING these types of games that have "lotto" type of "loot boxes\crates" within from the entire country for sales. In fact there is an entire FBI website dedicated to reporting, storing, and divulging of information upon this type of illegal activity. I can get you the link if you like?
Except your trying to lump ALL loot boxes together which would be like trying to lump all MMORPGs together. Crown crates are NOT like all lootboxs because "
1) You are paying for 4 cards to get a random item
2) You always win
3) You can trade any of the items from these 4 cards for gems and then exchange those for any other items that drop from those 4 cards.
Does not meet the legal definition of gambling.
Everything you described involved a risk. You risk a bet in the hopes of getting something better. That is the definition of gambling. You take a gamble.
The legal definition matters in the context of 'why is this not banned in every country'.Anotherone773 wrote: »
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards.
The general definition of gambling matters in the context of OP's post - they spent $1000 to get an Apex and didn't.
Gambling can be:
- play games of chance for money; bet. "he gambles on football"
- bet (a sum of money). "they gambled their money on cards"
- take risky action in the hope of a desired result. "he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel"
Your example doesn't mean gambling at all by my, or any definiton. You have to agree to get the car that was suggested for you. It's only gambling if you go to a dealership in the hopes of getting a random Ferrari, and for 20k they give you a random car (like a Hot Wheels toy). You're still gambling, even if you're guaranteed to get a consolation prize. Maybe not legally, but in all other senses of the word.
OP gambled his money away on the chance that he might get a Radiant Apex. That's the item this post is about, not random stuff you can get for Gems. They played a game of chance with RNG and lost. It happens.
Crown crates are not gambling because their is no risk of loss.
* You already loss and have no chance of even recovering your "bet" the moment you bought crowns
* It is impossible to open a crate and not get 4 items from an item pool.
* Even if you dont want the items, you can trade those items for a currency that you can use to purchase the item you do want. This currency transfers between "seasons" so your not even forced to spend it this season.
That's why they are gambling, as you can see from the definitions of gambling that I copy-pasted.
Your counter-argument of 'everything is gambling with that logic' didn't involve a risk, because you went into a car dealership and you were offered an older model that you had money for. There was no chance nor risk involved in your example.
And for the last time, as so many others pointed out: you can NOT buy Radiant Apex with gems.
You're probably thinking of Apex of whatever, because everything you write is based on that false information.
If guaranteed random items would stop gambling from being gambling, Casinos would have started giving away eyeshadow palettes, toy cars and random candy that nobody wants to eat, with every spin of the wheel. That way they could claim that they aren't gambling dens, because you see everyone gets something, even if it's useless and they already had it and that's not what most people are here for.Anotherone773 wrote: »
When i go to the store sometimes they have buy 4 packs of meat get a 5th pack free. That is a BONUS like a BONUS CARD in a crown crate. You pay for 4, sometimes you get 5. I dont go to the store and get 4 packs of meat and when they dont offer me the 5th, starting going on a tirade. I accept that the 5th pack is a bonus pack sometimes offered. The 5th card and the radiant apex that ONLY DROPS from that specific cards are bonuses.
Everything I described involved a risk, yes. Including Crown Crates.Anotherone773 wrote: »Sargesgaming wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards. So
Step 1: flip 4 cards
Step 2: get items
Step 3: convert unwanted items to gems
Step 4: use gems to buy desired items
Step 5: #itsnotgambling
Saying " well people only buy the crown crates for the radiant apex" is very much false. I actually know very few people who care about those radiant apex and most i know will often want a legendary or lower reward from the crates. For some reason the adornments and such are really popular with people.
It really isnt the legal definition and not the only one that matters, so much so that it has been defined in countries and states instituting bills into affect and BANNING these types of games that have "lotto" type of "loot boxes\crates" within from the entire country for sales. In fact there is an entire FBI website dedicated to reporting, storing, and divulging of information upon this type of illegal activity. I can get you the link if you like?
Except your trying to lump ALL loot boxes together which would be like trying to lump all MMORPGs together. Crown crates are NOT like all lootboxs because "
1) You are paying for 4 cards to get a random item
2) You always win
3) You can trade any of the items from these 4 cards for gems and then exchange those for any other items that drop from those 4 cards.
Does not meet the legal definition of gambling.
Everything you described involved a risk. You risk a bet in the hopes of getting something better. That is the definition of gambling. You take a gamble.
The legal definition matters in the context of 'why is this not banned in every country'.Anotherone773 wrote: »
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards.
The general definition of gambling matters in the context of OP's post - they spent $1000 to get an Apex and didn't.
Gambling can be:
- play games of chance for money; bet. "he gambles on football"
- bet (a sum of money). "they gambled their money on cards"
- take risky action in the hope of a desired result. "he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel"
Your example doesn't mean gambling at all by my, or any definiton. You have to agree to get the car that was suggested for you. It's only gambling if you go to a dealership in the hopes of getting a random Ferrari, and for 20k they give you a random car (like a Hot Wheels toy). You're still gambling, even if you're guaranteed to get a consolation prize. Maybe not legally, but in all other senses of the word.
OP gambled his money away on the chance that he might get a Radiant Apex. That's the item this post is about, not random stuff you can get for Gems. They played a game of chance with RNG and lost. It happens.
Crown crates are not gambling because their is no risk of loss.
* You already loss and have no chance of even recovering your "bet" the moment you bought crowns
* It is impossible to open a crate and not get 4 items from an item pool.
* Even if you dont want the items, you can trade those items for a currency that you can use to purchase the item you do want. This currency transfers between "seasons" so your not even forced to spend it this season.
That's why they are gambling, as you can see from the definitions of gambling that I copy-pasted.
Your counter-argument of 'everything is gambling with that logic' didn't involve a risk, because you went into a car dealership and you were offered an older model that you had money for. There was no chance nor risk involved in your example.
And for the last time, as so many others pointed out: you can NOT buy Radiant Apex with gems.
You're probably thinking of Apex of whatever, because everything you write is based on that false information.
'Pa went and tried to get us that new car mommy, the one that they said is only obtainable at the slot machine and not through any other way, and now he came home with three sacks of bullpoo and two dead rats, and they tell him it's not gambling because he was guaranteed to get something!'
So I never claimed anything about the legal category of 'gambling' or what it should be classified as, but we all instinctively know that being forced to play games of chance for items that you want, so that you're saddled with useless items instead of buying your item with no loss of money is preeeeetttty much gambling in the general sense.0 -
FatherDelve✭✭✭Thanks god this games "endgame", in case we even have such thing, does not circle around Mount and Style Competitions only. You dont need to buy crates, you know.
I dont play Lottery and complain that I cant win ever the jackpot.
But of course in the days of safespaces you are doing questionable decisions in your life, and afterwards always someone else is guilty.1 -
what_the✭✭✭So I never claimed anything about the legal category of 'gambling' or what it should be classified as, but we all instinctively know that being forced to play games of chance for items that you want, so that you're saddled with useless items instead of buying your item with no loss of money is preeeeetttty much gambling in the general sense.
So... now you are talking about playing Mmos in general? 😉
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Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...
except that is not true... if you have ever been to a casino, you know you can hang out in the casino and never spend any money AND get free drinks and food. No purchase necessary. When you buy a crown rate you are buying 4 item cards that will give you a 100% chance of a white, green, or blue reward and smaller chances at other items. You may trade these items for gems which you can then use to purchase any of the rewards in the crate but radiant apex which only drop from a 5th card which you did not purchase.
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.
thats a silly argument and just semantics
ok we change it, now every time you gamble and loose you get a coupon for free drinks and food
see...exact same result
thats "surprise mechanics" level of argumentation ^^Edited by Nemesis7884 on July 2, 2020 5:19AM1 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Those are also gambling in a sense of the word, as you can see from the definitions I posted. Not the legal sense, but the general sense, the one with which we call Crown Crates gambling too.
It isn't gambling any more than Topp's Trading Cards or one of those gumball machines.
Everything I described involved a risk, yes. Including Crown Crates.Anotherone773 wrote: »Sargesgaming wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards. So
Step 1: flip 4 cards
Step 2: get items
Step 3: convert unwanted items to gems
Step 4: use gems to buy desired items
Step 5: #itsnotgambling
Saying " well people only buy the crown crates for the radiant apex" is very much false. I actually know very few people who care about those radiant apex and most i know will often want a legendary or lower reward from the crates. For some reason the adornments and such are really popular with people.
It really isnt the legal definition and not the only one that matters, so much so that it has been defined in countries and states instituting bills into affect and BANNING these types of games that have "lotto" type of "loot boxes\crates" within from the entire country for sales. In fact there is an entire FBI website dedicated to reporting, storing, and divulging of information upon this type of illegal activity. I can get you the link if you like?
Except your trying to lump ALL loot boxes together which would be like trying to lump all MMORPGs together. Crown crates are NOT like all lootboxs because "
1) You are paying for 4 cards to get a random item
2) You always win
3) You can trade any of the items from these 4 cards for gems and then exchange those for any other items that drop from those 4 cards.
Does not meet the legal definition of gambling.
Everything you described involved a risk. You risk a bet in the hopes of getting something better. That is the definition of gambling. You take a gamble.
The legal definition matters in the context of 'why is this not banned in every country'.Anotherone773 wrote: »
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards.
The general definition of gambling matters in the context of OP's post - they spent $1000 to get an Apex and didn't.
Gambling can be:
- play games of chance for money; bet. "he gambles on football"
- bet (a sum of money). "they gambled their money on cards"
- take risky action in the hope of a desired result. "he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel"
Your example doesn't mean gambling at all by my, or any definiton. You have to agree to get the car that was suggested for you. It's only gambling if you go to a dealership in the hopes of getting a random Ferrari, and for 20k they give you a random car (like a Hot Wheels toy). You're still gambling, even if you're guaranteed to get a consolation prize. Maybe not legally, but in all other senses of the word.
OP gambled his money away on the chance that he might get a Radiant Apex. That's the item this post is about, not random stuff you can get for Gems. They played a game of chance with RNG and lost. It happens.
Crown crates are not gambling because their is no risk of loss.
* You already loss and have no chance of even recovering your "bet" the moment you bought crowns
* It is impossible to open a crate and not get 4 items from an item pool.
* Even if you dont want the items, you can trade those items for a currency that you can use to purchase the item you do want. This currency transfers between "seasons" so your not even forced to spend it this season.
That's why they are gambling, as you can see from the definitions of gambling that I copy-pasted.
Your counter-argument of 'everything is gambling with that logic' didn't involve a risk, because you went into a car dealership and you were offered an older model that you had money for. There was no chance nor risk involved in your example.
And for the last time, as so many others pointed out: you can NOT buy Radiant Apex with gems.
You're probably thinking of Apex of whatever, because everything you write is based on that false information.
If guaranteed random items would stop gambling from being gambling, Casinos would have started giving away eyeshadow palettes, toy cars and random candy that nobody wants to eat, with every spin of the wheel. That way they could claim that they aren't gambling dens, because you see everyone gets something, even if it's useless and they already had it and that's not what most people are here for.Anotherone773 wrote: »
When i go to the store sometimes they have buy 4 packs of meat get a 5th pack free. That is a BONUS like a BONUS CARD in a crown crate. You pay for 4, sometimes you get 5. I dont go to the store and get 4 packs of meat and when they dont offer me the 5th, starting going on a tirade. I accept that the 5th pack is a bonus pack sometimes offered. The 5th card and the radiant apex that ONLY DROPS from that specific cards are bonuses.
Everything I described involved a risk, yes. Including Crown Crates.Anotherone773 wrote: »Sargesgaming wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards. So
Step 1: flip 4 cards
Step 2: get items
Step 3: convert unwanted items to gems
Step 4: use gems to buy desired items
Step 5: #itsnotgambling
Saying " well people only buy the crown crates for the radiant apex" is very much false. I actually know very few people who care about those radiant apex and most i know will often want a legendary or lower reward from the crates. For some reason the adornments and such are really popular with people.
It really isnt the legal definition and not the only one that matters, so much so that it has been defined in countries and states instituting bills into affect and BANNING these types of games that have "lotto" type of "loot boxes\crates" within from the entire country for sales. In fact there is an entire FBI website dedicated to reporting, storing, and divulging of information upon this type of illegal activity. I can get you the link if you like?
Except your trying to lump ALL loot boxes together which would be like trying to lump all MMORPGs together. Crown crates are NOT like all lootboxs because "
1) You are paying for 4 cards to get a random item
2) You always win
3) You can trade any of the items from these 4 cards for gems and then exchange those for any other items that drop from those 4 cards.
Does not meet the legal definition of gambling.
Everything you described involved a risk. You risk a bet in the hopes of getting something better. That is the definition of gambling. You take a gamble.
The legal definition matters in the context of 'why is this not banned in every country'.Anotherone773 wrote: »
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards.
The general definition of gambling matters in the context of OP's post - they spent $1000 to get an Apex and didn't.
Gambling can be:
- play games of chance for money; bet. "he gambles on football"
- bet (a sum of money). "they gambled their money on cards"
- take risky action in the hope of a desired result. "he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel"
Your example doesn't mean gambling at all by my, or any definiton. You have to agree to get the car that was suggested for you. It's only gambling if you go to a dealership in the hopes of getting a random Ferrari, and for 20k they give you a random car (like a Hot Wheels toy). You're still gambling, even if you're guaranteed to get a consolation prize. Maybe not legally, but in all other senses of the word.
OP gambled his money away on the chance that he might get a Radiant Apex. That's the item this post is about, not random stuff you can get for Gems. They played a game of chance with RNG and lost. It happens.
Crown crates are not gambling because their is no risk of loss.
* You already loss and have no chance of even recovering your "bet" the moment you bought crowns
* It is impossible to open a crate and not get 4 items from an item pool.
* Even if you dont want the items, you can trade those items for a currency that you can use to purchase the item you do want. This currency transfers between "seasons" so your not even forced to spend it this season.
That's why they are gambling, as you can see from the definitions of gambling that I copy-pasted.
Your counter-argument of 'everything is gambling with that logic' didn't involve a risk, because you went into a car dealership and you were offered an older model that you had money for. There was no chance nor risk involved in your example.
And for the last time, as so many others pointed out: you can NOT buy Radiant Apex with gems.
You're probably thinking of Apex of whatever, because everything you write is based on that false information.
'Pa went and tried to get us that new car mommy, the one that they said is only obtainable at the slot machine and not through any other way, and now he came home with three sacks of bullpoo and two dead rats, and they tell him it's not gambling because he was guaranteed to get something!'
So I never claimed anything about the legal category of 'gambling' or what it should be classified as, but we all instinctively know that being forced to play games of chance for items that you want, so that you're saddled with useless items instead of buying your item with no loss of money is preeeeetttty much gambling in the general sense.
Literally no one cares about your interpretation of what gambling is. The ONLY thing that matters is the legal definition. Everything else is irrelevant.Nemesis7884 wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...
except that is not true... if you have ever been to a casino, you know you can hang out in the casino and never spend any money AND get free drinks and food. No purchase necessary. When you buy a crown rate you are buying 4 item cards that will give you a 100% chance of a white, green, or blue reward and smaller chances at other items. You may trade these items for gems which you can then use to purchase any of the rewards in the crate but radiant apex which only drop from a 5th card which you did not purchase.
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.
thats a silly argument and just semantics
ok we change it, now every time you gamble and loose you get a coupon for free drinks and food
see...exact same result
thats "surprise mechanics" level of argumentation ^^
Your argument makes no sense and has no context.0 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭always win = no gambling is a idiotic argument you might as well be a spokesperson for the gaming industry - winning is only winning if its meaningful and what you say is also not true legally otherwise everyone could set up a lottery where in any case you get a pencil for your ticket even when you loose OBVIOUSLY this is a circumvention of the meaning of the law at least in europe1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Those are also gambling in a sense of the word, as you can see from the definitions I posted. Not the legal sense, but the general sense, the one with which we call Crown Crates gambling too.
It isn't gambling any more than Topp's Trading Cards or one of those gumball machines.
Everything I described involved a risk, yes. Including Crown Crates.Anotherone773 wrote: »Sargesgaming wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards. So
Step 1: flip 4 cards
Step 2: get items
Step 3: convert unwanted items to gems
Step 4: use gems to buy desired items
Step 5: #itsnotgambling
Saying " well people only buy the crown crates for the radiant apex" is very much false. I actually know very few people who care about those radiant apex and most i know will often want a legendary or lower reward from the crates. For some reason the adornments and such are really popular with people.
It really isnt the legal definition and not the only one that matters, so much so that it has been defined in countries and states instituting bills into affect and BANNING these types of games that have "lotto" type of "loot boxes\crates" within from the entire country for sales. In fact there is an entire FBI website dedicated to reporting, storing, and divulging of information upon this type of illegal activity. I can get you the link if you like?
Except your trying to lump ALL loot boxes together which would be like trying to lump all MMORPGs together. Crown crates are NOT like all lootboxs because "
1) You are paying for 4 cards to get a random item
2) You always win
3) You can trade any of the items from these 4 cards for gems and then exchange those for any other items that drop from those 4 cards.
Does not meet the legal definition of gambling.
Everything you described involved a risk. You risk a bet in the hopes of getting something better. That is the definition of gambling. You take a gamble.
The legal definition matters in the context of 'why is this not banned in every country'.Anotherone773 wrote: »
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards.
The general definition of gambling matters in the context of OP's post - they spent $1000 to get an Apex and didn't.
Gambling can be:
- play games of chance for money; bet. "he gambles on football"
- bet (a sum of money). "they gambled their money on cards"
- take risky action in the hope of a desired result. "he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel"
Your example doesn't mean gambling at all by my, or any definiton. You have to agree to get the car that was suggested for you. It's only gambling if you go to a dealership in the hopes of getting a random Ferrari, and for 20k they give you a random car (like a Hot Wheels toy). You're still gambling, even if you're guaranteed to get a consolation prize. Maybe not legally, but in all other senses of the word.
OP gambled his money away on the chance that he might get a Radiant Apex. That's the item this post is about, not random stuff you can get for Gems. They played a game of chance with RNG and lost. It happens.
Crown crates are not gambling because their is no risk of loss.
* You already loss and have no chance of even recovering your "bet" the moment you bought crowns
* It is impossible to open a crate and not get 4 items from an item pool.
* Even if you dont want the items, you can trade those items for a currency that you can use to purchase the item you do want. This currency transfers between "seasons" so your not even forced to spend it this season.
That's why they are gambling, as you can see from the definitions of gambling that I copy-pasted.
Your counter-argument of 'everything is gambling with that logic' didn't involve a risk, because you went into a car dealership and you were offered an older model that you had money for. There was no chance nor risk involved in your example.
And for the last time, as so many others pointed out: you can NOT buy Radiant Apex with gems.
You're probably thinking of Apex of whatever, because everything you write is based on that false information.
If guaranteed random items would stop gambling from being gambling, Casinos would have started giving away eyeshadow palettes, toy cars and random candy that nobody wants to eat, with every spin of the wheel. That way they could claim that they aren't gambling dens, because you see everyone gets something, even if it's useless and they already had it and that's not what most people are here for.Anotherone773 wrote: »
When i go to the store sometimes they have buy 4 packs of meat get a 5th pack free. That is a BONUS like a BONUS CARD in a crown crate. You pay for 4, sometimes you get 5. I dont go to the store and get 4 packs of meat and when they dont offer me the 5th, starting going on a tirade. I accept that the 5th pack is a bonus pack sometimes offered. The 5th card and the radiant apex that ONLY DROPS from that specific cards are bonuses.
Everything I described involved a risk, yes. Including Crown Crates.Anotherone773 wrote: »Sargesgaming wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards. So
Step 1: flip 4 cards
Step 2: get items
Step 3: convert unwanted items to gems
Step 4: use gems to buy desired items
Step 5: #itsnotgambling
Saying " well people only buy the crown crates for the radiant apex" is very much false. I actually know very few people who care about those radiant apex and most i know will often want a legendary or lower reward from the crates. For some reason the adornments and such are really popular with people.
It really isnt the legal definition and not the only one that matters, so much so that it has been defined in countries and states instituting bills into affect and BANNING these types of games that have "lotto" type of "loot boxes\crates" within from the entire country for sales. In fact there is an entire FBI website dedicated to reporting, storing, and divulging of information upon this type of illegal activity. I can get you the link if you like?
Except your trying to lump ALL loot boxes together which would be like trying to lump all MMORPGs together. Crown crates are NOT like all lootboxs because "
1) You are paying for 4 cards to get a random item
2) You always win
3) You can trade any of the items from these 4 cards for gems and then exchange those for any other items that drop from those 4 cards.
Does not meet the legal definition of gambling.
Everything you described involved a risk. You risk a bet in the hopes of getting something better. That is the definition of gambling. You take a gamble.
The legal definition matters in the context of 'why is this not banned in every country'.Anotherone773 wrote: »
The legal definition of gambling, which is the ONLY one that matters in any context like this does not fit crown crates. By your definition going to the car dealer to buy a new car is gambling. I go in and apply for a loan to get that $80k sports car i saw in the showroom. The salesman came back and said i only qualify for $20k loan for the compact economy car that looks like something that comes in a box at walmart. By your definition that is gambling because i didnt get my desired item. I can do this all day with any product.
Gambling applies to this too. For example if Casinos start giving away a worthless piece of candy (that nobody wants to eat anyway) with each purchase, so that you're technically guaranteed to win something, it would still be gambling.Anotherone773 wrote: »
Its not gambling if you "always win". It doesnt matter how you spin it . Always win= not gambling.Nemesis7884 wrote: »
casinos could make the same argument that you are getting free drinks and food...WhisperLFE wrote: »You could make the argument that it's not gambling because ultimately, there's no true risk of losing. You may be looking for a particular outcome, but no matter what happens, you're going to get something from the crates. Sort of like baseball cards. You may not get the card you're looking for when you buy a pack, but you're going to get X number of cards regardless.
Personally, I'm fine with the rare drop rate and the inability to buy the mounts outright. It's what makes them valuable. A rare instance in which a person can't just immediately and with true certainty buy their way to success. I do think duplicate radiant mounts shouldn't be possible, though.
That's what 75% of Crate fillers are: useless things that nobody would buy anyway. You're gambling with your money hoping that the RNG gods spit out a Radiant Apex, so all the dye stamps and potions don't mean it's not gambling. Legally it might fall under a different loophole ('surprise mechanics' lol), but the sense of the word gambling very much applies here too.
The fact is when you buy a crown crate you pay for 4 items drawn randomly out of a pool. All of those items are available for gems which you get from unwanted items from those 4 cards.
The general definition of gambling matters in the context of OP's post - they spent $1000 to get an Apex and didn't.
Gambling can be:
- play games of chance for money; bet. "he gambles on football"
- bet (a sum of money). "they gambled their money on cards"
- take risky action in the hope of a desired result. "he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel"
Your example doesn't mean gambling at all by my, or any definiton. You have to agree to get the car that was suggested for you. It's only gambling if you go to a dealership in the hopes of getting a random Ferrari, and for 20k they give you a random car (like a Hot Wheels toy). You're still gambling, even if you're guaranteed to get a consolation prize. Maybe not legally, but in all other senses of the word.
OP gambled his money away on the chance that he might get a Radiant Apex. That's the item this post is about, not random stuff you can get for Gems. They played a game of chance with RNG and lost. It happens.
Crown crates are not gambling because their is no risk of loss.
* You already loss and have no chance of even recovering your "bet" the moment you bought crowns
* It is impossible to open a crate and not get 4 items from an item pool.
* Even if you dont want the items, you can trade those items for a currency that you can use to purchase the item you do want. This currency transfers between "seasons" so your not even forced to spend it this season.
That's why they are gambling, as you can see from the definitions of gambling that I copy-pasted.
Your counter-argument of 'everything is gambling with that logic' didn't involve a risk, because you went into a car dealership and you were offered an older model that you had money for. There was no chance nor risk involved in your example.
And for the last time, as so many others pointed out: you can NOT buy Radiant Apex with gems.
You're probably thinking of Apex of whatever, because everything you write is based on that false information.
'Pa went and tried to get us that new car mommy, the one that they said is only obtainable at the slot machine and not through any other way, and now he came home with three sacks of bullpoo and two dead rats, and they tell him it's not gambling because he was guaranteed to get something!'
So I never claimed anything about the legal category of 'gambling' or what it should be classified as, but we all instinctively know that being forced to play games of chance for items that you want, so that you're saddled with useless items instead of buying your item with no loss of money is preeeeetttty much gambling in the general sense.
I went and looked at your definitions. They do not apply to crown crates. You buy a crate you get four cards. That is it. The difference in crown crate items and the candy idea with the casino is nothing in the crown crate legally has a worth. Having no worth all items are equal so no matter what four items you get you get what you paid for.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »always win = no gambling is a idiotic argument you might as well be a spokesperson for the gaming industry - winning is only winning if its meaningful and what you say is also not true legally otherwise everyone could set up a lottery where in any case you get a pencil for your ticket even when you loose OBVIOUSLY this is a circumvention of the meaning of the law at least in europe
1)You are trying to compare items that have real world value. A pencil has real world value, a food/drink coupon has real world value. Crown crates or the items in them are worthless. You dont even own them. They are not yours. Nothing in ESO is yours.
WHen you give money to ZOS you do so for a service. Crown crates are a service. You cant buy 200 crown crates, open them, decide you need to pay your electric bill, gather the items, sell them( legally) to someone else for your real currency and then take that currency to pay the electric bill.
2) "winning is only winning if its meaningful" = As i stated before most people i know that buy crown crates including both me and my wife, dont do it for the bonus radiant mount. Many people do it for the other stuff in the crates. I just watched a video of a guy that opened 210 nightfall crates and while he would have liked a radiant apex, was perfectly happy with the Bat and Furnishing collection he was acquiring. He also managed to rake in 2600 in gems which he could use to purchase any item but the radiant apex.
I could personally care less about radiant mounts or mounts in general. Both my wife and i prefer pets and furnishings...just like that guy. And ive found quite a few crown crate buyers that are like " oh radiant is a nice bonus but i really want..."
3) This is something else that makes it not gambling. you can upgrade your prizes. I cant trade 5 non winning tickets in for a winning ticket when i gamble. But i can trade in multiple blue level items for a purple item of my choice. you cant get the radiant apex because for the 1millionth time its.a.bonus.reward.for.buying.crates.
The problem isnt that crown crates are predatory, its that people want to treat them like its the lottery and they want the jackpot. Except its not a jackpot, its a bonus reward for purchasing crates. We could take those mounts out of the radiant apex tier stick them in the legendary tier and take the mounts out of the legendary tier and put them in the radiant apex tier and people who are complaining would not know the difference and still complain about not getting the radiant apex.
They dont complain because they want the actual mount, they complain because their is something they cant obtain and they are going to whine about it until someone gives them their way.
Edited by Anotherone773 on July 2, 2020 7:33AM0 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »always win = no gambling is a idiotic argument you might as well be a spokesperson for the gaming industry - winning is only winning if its meaningful and what you say is also not true legally otherwise everyone could set up a lottery where in any case you get a pencil for your ticket even when you loose OBVIOUSLY this is a circumvention of the meaning of the law at least in europe
1)You are trying to compare items that have real world value. A pencil has real world value, a food/drink coupon has real world value. Crown crates or the items in them are worthless. You dont even own them. They are not yours. Nothing in ESO is yours.
WHen you give money to ZOS you do so for a service. Crown crates are a service. You cant buy 200 crown crates, open them, decide you need to pay your electric bill, gather the items, sell them( legally) to someone else for your real currency and then take that currency to pay the electric bill.
2) "winning is only winning if its meaningful" = As i stated before most people i know that buy crown crates including both me and my wife, dont do it for the bonus radiant mount. Many people do it for the other stuff in the crates. I just watched a video of a guy that opened 210 nightfall crates and while he would have liked a radiant apex, was perfectly happy with the Bat and Furnishing collection he was acquiring. He also managed to rake in 2600 in gems which he could use to purchase any item but the radiant apex.
I could personally care less about radiant mounts or mounts in general. Both my wife and i prefer pets and furnishings...just like that guy. And ive found quite a few crown crate buyers that are like " oh radiant is a nice bonus but i really want..."
3) This is something else that makes it not gambling. you can upgrade your prizes. I cant trade 5 non winning tickets in for a winning ticket when i gamble. But i can trade in multiple blue level items for a purple item of my choice. you cant get the radiant apex because for the 1millionth time its.a.bonus.reward.for.buying.crates.
The problem isnt that crown crates are predatory, its that people want to treat them like its the lottery and they want the jackpot. Except its not a jackpot, its a bonus reward for purchasing crates. We could take those mounts out of the radiant apex tier stick them in the legendary tier and take the mounts out of the legendary tier and put them in the radiant apex tier and people who are complaining would not know the difference and still complain about not getting the radiant apex.
They dont complain because they want the actual mount, they complain because their is something they cant obtain and they are going to whine about it until someone gives them their way.
again you make such nonsense arguments...there is NO difference between "real world value" and value, value is what someone is willing to pay...otherwise how can you charge anything for digital goods at all.
loot boxes are a form of gambling - the legislation pretty much everywhere around the world with the exception of the US is realizing amd adressing this and we can expect significant changes incoming over the next couple years to stop predatory monetization and it is direly needed...0 -
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