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Animation cancelling

  • relentless_turnip
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    The last time they did something to combat in this game they broke it. Remember in harrowstorm how they moved block server side and the game has been really broken since. Block cancelling also doesn't work on most skills.

    Performance prior to harrowstorm seems like a dream. Changing combat at this point is a ridiculous proposition. [snip]

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on July 1, 2020 1:18PM
  • bluebird
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    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    Games can have fast paced combat, with a lot of haste and short cast times, for quick and reactive combat.
    But the only way ESO can even pretend its combat is interesting is by keeping a bug ingame? Lol.

    The game is simply not built for AC and it shows. AC looks spastic and glitchy, flinging LAs during stuttering interrupted skill casts that still do their full damage. It simply shouldn't be this way. If a player interrupts their previous action (by blocking, switching bars, etc) the previous action shouldn't count as complete and shouldn't land its damage. That would still allow for reactive gameplay without this bug-turned-feature.

    And FYI other games have 'off the GCD' abilities that they can fire off between regular skills, and those abilities are built for that - they have short cast times and no or very quick animations, that can display between the regular skills. It looks far more polished. But ESO doesn't. They keep adding cast times and long animations to skills while also expecting players to cancel them - what the actual hell is the point of that? :lol:

    If you want to embrace buttonmashing combat, get rid of animations if by design you don't want anybody to see them because you want your game to play without completing animations. Or speed up all skills so they fit between 2 LAs. Or, if you want animations on your skills then remove AC. Cause ESO's combat looks like a glitchy joke and it's honestly a pain to look at my characters getting spasming seizures because you decided to leave a bug ingame instead of fixing it.
    Many of us enjoy the combat this game offers by constantly being active with something. I imagine BDO is one example of something you are likely referring to as the combat is very quick and fluid, yet without animation canceling.
    No idea about BDO, never played it. But even WoW has faster and more impactful fast-pact combat.
    For example look at this Fire Mage's combustion - just the first 12 seconds, and slow it down to 0.75 replay speed:
    https://youtu.be/KxHRSV7ax9w
    In the span of 15 seconds, they fired off 29 spells (including racials, damage buffs, and trinkets). They utilize an off-the-GCD instant cast Fireblast which automatically crits and can be fired while you're casting another spell, and combine that with Pyroblasts which become instant cast if you score 2 crits in a row. This makes paying attention to your procs and managing your burst cooldowns such as Combustion (guaranteed crits for the buff duration) be very meaningful and engaging.

    If ESO had off-the-GCD skills too, or just sped up their animations in general, its combat would be a lot more fluid too. Because that way the combat system would be designed to be animation cancelled, instead of designed with long and cumbersome animations that the devs don't even want anybody to see, ever.

    And that's just the 'let's polish animations' part of it. Going further we can see how barren and static ESO's combat is. Almost no procs you have to pay attention to (apart from Crystal Frags), barely any skill interactions (apart from Daedric Prey) and no unique spells (apart from Grim Focus and the recently copy-catted Bound Armaments). All other skills are static, non-reactive, fixed rotations, so you're just repetitively pressing the same buttons without thought. Having to click a LA between monotonous rotations that play 90% the same (apply self-buffs, DoTs up, then spam stuff), isn't exactly the peak of good combat design, nor the only way ESO's combat could be fast-paced.

    I'm not saying they should remove AC to be more like Skyrim where you just LA sluggishly, but they could rework their combat to be better rather than settling for this bugged solution that clearly shows its ramshackle origins.
  • eKsDee
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    Soon to be fixed... (or maybe just changed)
    When they flip/flop the effects of light attack versus heavy attacks.
    Light attacks will return more resources so light attack weaving and cancelling will not boost your damage so much (if at all?)
    heavy attacks will do lots more damage but return less if any resources.
    Already went to PTS once, but lots of outcry and they pulled it.
    Understandably so.
    The most skilled and experienced players are the ones doing the light attack weaving and cancelling and probably also the ones doing the bulk of testing on PTS (my opinion)... so they would be the ones also most likely to not want this sort of a change.
    Take away the light attack weaving/cancelling and instantly the gap between great and just average players is reduced.


    Flipping the roles of light/heavy attacks wouldn't have made animation cancelling less important, in fact it would have made it more important.

    Weaving light attacks would be necessary for sustain (as heavy attacks are currently an important tool in easily sustaining a rotation with low recovery), and bash cancelling would have been important for pushing the most damage out of your build.

    Not only would weaving light attacks become way more important, but bash cancelling would become more important, meaning you'd be doing 3 actions per second, instead of the 2 we currently have.

    Posts like this is just more proof that those who tout animation cancelling as everything wrong with ESO really have no clue what they're saying.
  • Xargas13
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    Animation canceling is stupid, I think it should be in place, but if you cancel animation you not getting the ability out. It just doesn't make any sense, imagine a guy punching you, but not even completing the move to do so....
  • amm7sb14_ESO
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    Xargas13 wrote: »
    Animation canceling is stupid, I think it should be in place, but if you cancel animation you not getting the ability out. It just doesn't make any sense, imagine a guy punching you, but not even completing the move to do so....

    Agree. While I enjoy the combat in this game, animation cancelling is not one of those things I like about it.
  • Rianai
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    Xargas13 wrote: »
    Animation canceling is stupid, I think it should be in place, but if you cancel animation you not getting the ability out. It just doesn't make any sense, imagine a guy punching you, but not even completing the move to do so....

    It makes about as much sense as throwing fireballs at each other. Just imagine ...

    This is a fantasy game, not reality. Also functionality is way more important than visuals.

    And since they started to nerf animation canceling (cast times, block changes, ...), combat has gone downhill - for everyone. Clueless players are still complaining about the exact same things, while combat became less responsive and reliable overall. Those changes brought zero improvements for anyone, so it is pretty obvious that the combat system needs animation canceling to function properly and those failed attempts to "fix" it should be reverted.
  • Xargas13
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    Rianai wrote: »
    Xargas13 wrote: »
    Animation canceling is stupid, I think it should be in place, but if you cancel animation you not getting the ability out. It just doesn't make any sense, imagine a guy punching you, but not even completing the move to do so....

    It makes about as much sense as throwing fireballs at each other. Just imagine ...

    This is a fantasy game, not reality. Also functionality is way more important than visuals.

    And since they started to nerf animation canceling (cast times, block changes, ...), combat has gone downhill - for everyone. Clueless players are still complaining about the exact same things, while combat became less responsive and reliable overall. Those changes brought zero improvements for anyone, so it is pretty obvious that the combat system needs animation canceling to function properly and those failed attempts to "fix" it should be reverted.

    In which fantasy setting did you see that a caster or whatever didn't need to do at least some move to throw that fireball out? Even if he just needs to twitch his fingers, he still need to do so, if it's a mind thing, well, no animation of course, but we don't have mind casters here.... Some rules still apply, it's just bad game design in this case, and I think combat became better over the years, it looks less buggy, I hate this patch, but at least they did something right. I'm not talking about bugs or lag or delayed abilities, I'm talking about animations, if animations look like they've been done by 3 year old, or just too fast, it looks ***. Same with animation canceling ESO is unique in many terms, but it's unique here too, I never seen such bogus in any games I've played, no animation, no ability. I don't see what is so hard to understand here.
  • idk
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    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).

    I respect your opinion on the matter. Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.

    At that, I will not continue with derailing the thread with the back and forth of opinions as I do not expect this to go anywhere meaningful.
  • Temeraire507
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    Animation canceling exists for a reason. If you couldn't cancel animations the game would sometimes feel unnecessary clunky or unfair, given you would always have to complete an action before being able to do another one.
    Now wether it is good that a canceled animations respective counterpart action is still fully taking place is debatable and has been a topic that has been discussed a million times and will likely be dicussed even more so going into the future. Also please note that while light attack weaving is an example of canceling animations and one very prominent at that given how much of a difference in a players damage output and sustain it can cause, it is not the only place of animation canceling taking place and the terms shouldn't be confused. Canceling anything with a roll or blocking for instance are examples of animation canceling happening intuitively without the player thinking too much about it that would be incredibly painful if they were not possible to do. Imagine seeing a heavy hit coming your way but being unable to block or dodge it because you still go through another animation.

    Now for your problem, that has almost guaranteed nothing to do with animations being actively canceled by a player. It is likely a problem that occurs from time to time depending on server load and on your connection, where you don't see your own abilities going off, your enemies abilities going off, something move, or generally anything happen that has to do with something not only your own machine is involved in. What exactly does or does not happen seemingly increases in amount when your connection or the load on the server gets worse. This is an issue that frequently happens in both PvE and PvP, although it is more noticeable and happens more often in PvP to my knowledge. All those actions then either all happen at the same time when they finish being processed or they don't happen at all. I have seen both. This is not an issue exclusive to ESO, but one of the main reasons so many players ask for performance improvements.
    furiouslog wrote: »
    It's not animation canceling per se that's causing this issue, it's server lag, or lag that is deliberately being caused on the client side by the attacker. If you google "lag switch", you can see that there are scripts and macros (or in the case of consoles, hardware devices) that will deliberately drop your connection for a short period, during which you can still spam attacks, and then reengage your connection which causes all of the skills to fire at once as the server catches up. Sometimes it occurs naturally due to the server being overwhelmed, so it's difficult to prove that someone is actually using the exploit. There are videos of this technique being used in ESO specifically.

    I've been one shot by players who appeared to me as if they had done absolutely nothing, then all of a sudden I am dead and my recap comes up with a dawnbreaker or a magnum shot and a pile of heavies.I'm sure in many cases it's just the server and it happens when there are a ton of players around and everyone is stuck or lagging, but I've also run into it when no one else was around and there was no lag up to that point - I'm just suddenly dead with no in game animations, sounds, or anything that indicated that I was being attacked. I've just accepted it as part of the game, that there are cheaters who do a considerable amount of research and testing in order to gain this unfair advantage, but that they are not so prevalent that it completely ruins the game.

    While I believe there are a some players using lag switches for sure, it is even more complicated than that. As it is also based on your connection. For instance as someone living close to the EU Server I have never experienced it happen normally there, however when log into the NA Server or the PTS I even run into these issues when I am completely alone doing regular PvE content (and of course PvP and all the other more specific cases where you somewhat expect it). Also at least my connection based issues usually apply to me and my opponent equally meaning the chance both players will just get outright oneshot after a few seconds in PvP is quite high, which is no fun for anyone involved and the reason some games, especially some Shooters even go as far as making players with an unstable or just relatively bad connection unable to partake in PvP.
  • Rianai
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    Xargas13 wrote: »
    Rianai wrote: »
    Xargas13 wrote: »
    Animation canceling is stupid, I think it should be in place, but if you cancel animation you not getting the ability out. It just doesn't make any sense, imagine a guy punching you, but not even completing the move to do so....

    It makes about as much sense as throwing fireballs at each other. Just imagine ...

    This is a fantasy game, not reality. Also functionality is way more important than visuals.

    And since they started to nerf animation canceling (cast times, block changes, ...), combat has gone downhill - for everyone. Clueless players are still complaining about the exact same things, while combat became less responsive and reliable overall. Those changes brought zero improvements for anyone, so it is pretty obvious that the combat system needs animation canceling to function properly and those failed attempts to "fix" it should be reverted.

    In which fantasy setting did you see that a caster or whatever didn't need to do at least some move to throw that fireball out? Even if he just needs to twitch his fingers, he still need to do so, if it's a mind thing, well, no animation of course, but we don't have mind casters here.... Some rules still apply, it's just bad game design in this case, and I think combat became better over the years, it looks less buggy, I hate this patch, but at least they did something right. I'm not talking about bugs or lag or delayed abilities, I'm talking about animations, if animations look like they've been done by 3 year old, or just too fast, it looks ***. Same with animation canceling ESO is unique in many terms, but it's unique here too, I never seen such bogus in any games I've played, no animation, no ability. I don't see what is so hard to understand here.

    Animation canceling does not remove animations. Never did. You are also not forced to cancel animations for the majority of this game's content, so if you want don't want to do it, just don't do it.

    And again, i'd rather have a game that looks *** but works fine than the other way arround. And a large part of the unresponsiveness and unreliability is clearly related to their attempt to "fix" animation canceling and not "just" server lag.
    Edited by Rianai on July 1, 2020 4:44PM
  • Xargas13
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    Rianai wrote: »
    Xargas13 wrote: »
    Rianai wrote: »
    Xargas13 wrote: »
    Animation canceling is stupid, I think it should be in place, but if you cancel animation you not getting the ability out. It just doesn't make any sense, imagine a guy punching you, but not even completing the move to do so....

    It makes about as much sense as throwing fireballs at each other. Just imagine ...

    This is a fantasy game, not reality. Also functionality is way more important than visuals.

    And since they started to nerf animation canceling (cast times, block changes, ...), combat has gone downhill - for everyone. Clueless players are still complaining about the exact same things, while combat became less responsive and reliable overall. Those changes brought zero improvements for anyone, so it is pretty obvious that the combat system needs animation canceling to function properly and those failed attempts to "fix" it should be reverted.

    In which fantasy setting did you see that a caster or whatever didn't need to do at least some move to throw that fireball out? Even if he just needs to twitch his fingers, he still need to do so, if it's a mind thing, well, no animation of course, but we don't have mind casters here.... Some rules still apply, it's just bad game design in this case, and I think combat became better over the years, it looks less buggy, I hate this patch, but at least they did something right. I'm not talking about bugs or lag or delayed abilities, I'm talking about animations, if animations look like they've been done by 3 year old, or just too fast, it looks ***. Same with animation canceling ESO is unique in many terms, but it's unique here too, I never seen such bogus in any games I've played, no animation, no ability. I don't see what is so hard to understand here.

    Animation canceling does not remove animations. Never did. You are also not forced to cancel animations for the majority of this game's content, so if you want don't want to do it, just don't do it.

    And again, i'd rather have a game that looks *** but works fine than the other way arround. And a large part of the unresponsiveness and unreliability is clearly related to their attempt to "fix" animation canceling and not "just" server lag.

    Fair enough, I like to have both though, but I played WoW for a long time, so I am not the one to speak about that :D
  • SidraWillowsky
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    Is jumping an actual skill, or is it part of animation canceling? If it's the latter, it looks far more ridiculous than ESO (I don't think that ESO looks ridiculous in the first place unless things are really glitchy)
  • bluebird
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    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).
    I respect your opinion on the matter. Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.
    I respect your opinion too, but I will not stand for dismissing facts as opinions to create some false narrative. :smile:
    I provided proof too, showing a video of fast paced combat without animation cancelling.
    You can get fast-paced combat without AC. Ergo, fast-paced combat and AC aren't synonymous.
    And people who act like combat would need to be snail-paced without AC are basing it on a fallacy.

    That fallacy is a false dichotomy ('It's either weaving/AC OR just garbage slow combat') when that's not the case. Reduced length of skill casts, ability to cast off-the-GCD abilities, and streamlining animations so that they display while casting other animations (e.g. Crystal Proc flying out while your hands are busy attacking with your staff) or complete as soon as they register their damage are all possible ways to make fast-paced combat.
  • bluebird
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    Is jumping an actual skill, or is it part of animation canceling? If it's the latter, it looks far more ridiculous than ESO (I don't think that ESO looks ridiculous in the first place unless things are really glitchy)
    If you're referring to the Fire Mage video, the jumping is just optional lol. It has nothing to do with the casts, they are just doing it to show off that all their skills are completing so fast that they could move during casting.
  • red_emu
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    Animation cancelling with block was great in PvP as many abilities have an animation longer than GCD and it helped with making your rotations smooth (even in lag).

    Now that you have to block and click, it seems pointless. Too many things to click and you can't just assign a bash to one key, so animation cancelling is more clunky than just letting the spell go through all the visuals. Great for RP, as abilities are really pretty but in PvP you might as well try and swim across Lake Rumare.
    PC - EU:
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  • TequilaFire
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    I just love how some say what they didn't see coming looks bad. lmao
    Edited by TequilaFire on July 1, 2020 5:31PM
  • Temeraire507
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    red_emu wrote: »
    Animation cancelling with block was great in PvP as many abilities have an animation longer than GCD and it helped with making your rotations smooth (even in lag).

    Now that you have to block and click, it seems pointless. Too many things to click and you can't just assign a bash to one key, so animation cancelling is more clunky than just letting the spell go through all the visuals. Great for RP, as abilities are really pretty but in PvP you might as well try and swim across Lake Rumare.

    What do you mean you can't assign a bash to one key? Like is not working properly if it is assigned to just one key? Because it is defenitely possible. It is an option in the controls menu where all the other key assignments are as well.
  • Alchimiste1
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    Yeah but than the DB won’t fire. Once upon a time DB had the cleanest cancel in the game if done correctly you wouldn’t see any animation and the ultimate would fire. That’s not the case anymore.

    OP said he got hit with five abilities and an ultimate(DB) but didn’t see the animation. That’s a server performance issue not DB being animation canceled.

    No, actually you can still animation cancel dawnbreaker and get it to hit, it’s just a bit different. It definitely catches people off guard.
  • idk
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    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).
    I respect your opinion on the matter. Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.
    I respect your opinion too, but I will not stand for dismissing facts as opinions to create some false narrative. :smile:

    Thank you since I was not creating a false narrative by any measure.

    I am glad our combat is more fast-paced that WoW and FF14. Our combat, along with the quality of story creation, is a big part of what sets ESO apart from slower, and boring combat systems of WoW and FF14. It is a big reason many of us play ESO instead of those games. The real fact is Zos has acknowledged this.
    Edited by idk on July 1, 2020 6:05PM
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    This is 100% a lag issue, not an AC isssue. The Server performance in PVP is a disaster these days. Anybody bashing AC is just someone who is extremely bad at this game and lacks a basic understanding of how combat functions in ESO. I don't like to cry L2P, but this is a L2P issue and nothing more.
  • bluebird
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    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).
    I respect your opinion on the matter. Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.
    I respect your opinion too, but I will not stand for dismissing facts as opinions to create some false narrative. :smile:
    Thank you since I was not creating a false narrative by any measure.
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).
    I respect your opinion on the matter. Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.

    At that, I will not continue with derailing the thread with the back and forth of opinions as I do not expect this to go anywhere meaningful.
    Your suggested (false) narrative was to deny that fast paced combat can exist without AC, and to frame all proof to the contrary as some 'opinion' that can be handwaved away because ah well, people have different opinions.

    Animation cancelling is not required to have fast-paced combat. But you're still allowed to like it! :smile: Just don't try to shut down discussion by pretending that 'Fast combat = AC' is a necessity and everything else is 'just an opinion'.
  • idk
    idk
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    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).
    I respect your opinion on the matter. Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.
    I respect your opinion too, but I will not stand for dismissing facts as opinions to create some false narrative. :smile:
    Thank you since I was not creating a false narrative by any measure.
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).
    I respect your opinion on the matter. Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.

    At that, I will not continue with derailing the thread with the back and forth of opinions as I do not expect this to go anywhere meaningful.
    Your suggested (false) narrative was to deny that fast paced combat can exist without AC, and to frame all proof to the contrary as some 'opinion' that can be handwaved away because ah well, people have different opinions.

    Animation cancelling is not required to have fast-paced combat. But you're still allowed to like it! :smile: Just don't try to shut down discussion by pretending that 'Fast combat = AC' is a necessity and everything else is 'just an opinion'.

    I suggest you read it again. I never said it could not exist without AC. I merely pointed out one of your statements of opinion.

    Have a good day and enjoy the game.
  • bluebird
    bluebird
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    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).
    I respect your opinion on the matter. Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.
    I respect your opinion too, but I will not stand for dismissing facts as opinions to create some false narrative. :smile:
    Thank you since I was not creating a false narrative by any measure.
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).
    I respect your opinion on the matter. Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.

    At that, I will not continue with derailing the thread with the back and forth of opinions as I do not expect this to go anywhere meaningful.
    Your suggested (false) narrative was to deny that fast paced combat can exist without AC, and to frame all proof to the contrary as some 'opinion' that can be handwaved away because ah well, people have different opinions.

    Animation cancelling is not required to have fast-paced combat. But you're still allowed to like it! :smile: Just don't try to shut down discussion by pretending that 'Fast combat = AC' is a necessity and everything else is 'just an opinion'.
    I suggest you read it again. I never said it could not exist without AC. I merely pointed out one of your statements of opinion.
    Have a good day and enjoy the game.
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).
    Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.
    I suggest you read it again. Because you most certainly did write that. Perhaps you phrased it wrongly if you didn't mean to say that. But it's certainly what it says. Saying 'coming up with "facts"' in quotation marks suggest that you strongly doubt the factuality of that statement. And you wrote that AC =/= fast paced combat 'is an opinion', suggesting that people can disagree with it and it's a matter of personal preference rather than an easily provable fact. So if that wasn't your intention, then perhaps your comments were just poorly phrased.
    Edited by bluebird on July 1, 2020 6:31PM
  • idk
    idk
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    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).
    I respect your opinion on the matter. Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.
    I respect your opinion too, but I will not stand for dismissing facts as opinions to create some false narrative. :smile:
    Thank you since I was not creating a false narrative by any measure.
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).
    I respect your opinion on the matter. Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.

    At that, I will not continue with derailing the thread with the back and forth of opinions as I do not expect this to go anywhere meaningful.
    Your suggested (false) narrative was to deny that fast paced combat can exist without AC, and to frame all proof to the contrary as some 'opinion' that can be handwaved away because ah well, people have different opinions.

    Animation cancelling is not required to have fast-paced combat. But you're still allowed to like it! :smile: Just don't try to shut down discussion by pretending that 'Fast combat = AC' is a necessity and everything else is 'just an opinion'.
    I suggest you read it again. I never said it could not exist without AC. I merely pointed out one of your statements of opinion.
    Have a good day and enjoy the game.
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).
    Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.
    I suggest you read it again. Because you most certainly did write that..

    I read it again before my last reply and my comment you just replied to was most certainly accurate. I think it is one's perspective on what they might get out of it.

    Regardless, this discussion is nothing more than a difference in opinion and as such is not going anywhere. As I said before, I respect you have an opinion and respect your opinion and will leave it at that.
  • teladoy
    teladoy
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    This game has a quick combat mode and with intention. There are no CD and the fights are extremely quick, it is a non stop.

    Problem is as you said visually you don't see from where damage comes and then suddenly your hp bar goes down in 0,5 seconds.

    Then you have to watch the board to see wtf killed you.

    Is this game tactical? No
    Requires skill? Yes, but to be quick with the buttons and being good with your fingers.

    To be good in pvp Is more a feeling, when you do pvp a lot then you feel the things happen before they really happened, then you know when to roll, or heal or back off without need to have a visual feedback.

    Sad, but that is pvp in ESO, no what you see, but what you don't see. Otherwise you are a dead man walking.
  • bluebird
    bluebird
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    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).
    I respect your opinion on the matter. Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.
    I respect your opinion too, but I will not stand for dismissing facts as opinions to create some false narrative. :smile:
    Thank you since I was not creating a false narrative by any measure.
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).
    I respect your opinion on the matter. Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.

    At that, I will not continue with derailing the thread with the back and forth of opinions as I do not expect this to go anywhere meaningful.
    Your suggested (false) narrative was to deny that fast paced combat can exist without AC, and to frame all proof to the contrary as some 'opinion' that can be handwaved away because ah well, people have different opinions.

    Animation cancelling is not required to have fast-paced combat. But you're still allowed to like it! :smile: Just don't try to shut down discussion by pretending that 'Fast combat = AC' is a necessity and everything else is 'just an opinion'.
    I suggest you read it again. I never said it could not exist without AC. I merely pointed out one of your statements of opinion.
    Have a good day and enjoy the game.
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...
    Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.
    Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
    You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.
    Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. :smile: Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

    AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
    It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).
    Even the comment that AC is not synonymous with fast-paced combat is an opinion. We clearly have different opinions and can probably spend days coming up with 'facts" to support our thoughts on the matter.
    I suggest you read it again. Because you most certainly did write that..
    I read it again before my last reply and my comment you just replied to was most certainly accurate. I think it is one's perspective on what they might get out of it.

    Regardless, this discussion is nothing more than a difference in opinion and as such is not going anywhere. As I said before, I respect you have an opinion and respect your opinion and will leave it at that.
    You can not claim that 'AC and fast combat aren't synonymous' is just an opinion,
    then later claim that you never said that AC was needed for fast combat,
    and continue calling my proposal for the possibility of AC-less fast combat an 'opinion'. :tongue:

    You're either contradicting yourself, backtracking, or phrased it poorly. Since you cling to the 'it's just an opinion' dismissal once again, I'll give up on you too since there is little point to your objections.
    For the thread itself though:
    AC can make combat faster, but fast combat doesn't require AC and can exist without it.
    So AC and fast combat aren't synonymous. (See my Fire Mage video for proof which is just as fast ESO).

    The way ESO happens to make their combat faster than normal is by allowing animation cancelled skills to still land their damage. Now, people are free to like this system, that's perfectly fine. Normally when a game requires quick reactions, animation cancelling is allowed, but it doesn't allow both actions to land their damage in that case.

    Because let's consider: what scenario needs you to land LA damage at the same time as a damage spammable skill? There is an argument to be made for needing to Block or dodgeroll in the middle of attacking, but in that case the game should register your Block but not allow your attack to complete if it had its animation interrupted.

    Yet ESO adds cast times and lengthy animations to its skills while they expect them to be cancelled. That is illogical and shows that the game wasn't built for fast-paced combat, they just left the bug in it. If they want fast-paced combat, getting off 1 skill and 1 LA per second, then adjust skill animation length so that all of them finish within 1 second, and adjust LA to be smoother when spammed between everything else. Or create instant off-the-GCD skills that would be allowed to fire during other skills. That would make it smoother and intentional, rather than this leftover bug from an ill-thought-out code.

    Note that I'm not campaigning to make combat slower, or even to remove the concept of AC, just a recognition of the fact that ESO's combat is far more jittery and contradictory (why have long animations if they are by design supposed to be canceled before they complete?) than if was designed properly with a cohesive system in mind.
    Edited by bluebird on July 1, 2020 7:25PM
  • mairwen85
    mairwen85
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    furiouslog wrote: »
    It's not animation canceling per se that's causing this issue, it's server lag, or lag that is deliberately being caused on the client side by the attacker. If you google "lag switch", you can see that there are scripts and macros (or in the case of consoles, hardware devices) that will deliberately drop your connection for a short period, during which you can still spam attacks, and then reengage your connection which causes all of the skills to fire at once as the server catches up. Sometimes it occurs naturally due to the server being overwhelmed, so it's difficult to prove that someone is actually using the exploit. There are videos of this technique being used in ESO specifically.

    I've been one shot by players who appeared to me as if they had done absolutely nothing, then all of a sudden I am dead and my recap comes up with a dawnbreaker or a magnum shot and a pile of heavies.I'm sure in many cases it's just the server and it happens when there are a ton of players around and everyone is stuck or lagging, but I've also run into it when no one else was around and there was no lag up to that point - I'm just suddenly dead with no in game animations, sounds, or anything that indicated that I was being attacked. I've just accepted it as part of the game, that there are cheaters who do a considerable amount of research and testing in order to gain this unfair advantage, but that they are not so prevalent that it completely ruins the game.

    I was under the impression that a lag switch only gives you the advantage if you are hosting; I can't see how it would give any benefit at all in a scenario like ESO where you temporarily 'disconnect' -- in fact, isn't that akin to the high ping / server lag most of us experience and complain about? In a hosted match, the data flows to you and out again, thus interfering with that allows you to benefit from everyone else lagging because the instance you control is lagged. Lagging yourself under ESO criteria doesn't provide that same control to my logic... I could be wrong of course, but the idea seems absurd in this context.
    Edited by mairwen85 on July 1, 2020 7:30PM
  • idk
    idk
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    This is 100% a lag issue, not an AC isssue. The Server performance in PVP is a disaster these days. Anybody bashing AC is just someone who is extremely bad at this game and lacks a basic understanding of how combat functions in ESO. I don't like to cry L2P, but this is a L2P issue and nothing more.

    You are correct. Server issues are often in play when in Cyrodiil and often mistaken for AC.
  • gatekeeper13
    gatekeeper13
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    Rianai wrote: »
    It makes about as much sense as throwing fireballs at each other. Just imagine ...

    This is a fantasy game, not reality. Also functionality is way more important than visuals.


    It's a fantasy game which goes against it's own rules and it's own logic. You activate an ability its casting you have cancelled. It is totally absurd, like being a wizard who starts casting a spell and before even saying the words, the spell is completed.

    Although it's a bug, they kept in game because they couldn't fix it and somehow became a norm. A member of ZOS staff has confessed that in a post sometime ago.

    Also, I think AC is totally useless and does not make the gameplay any more interesting. E.g in Cyro it is impossible for me to AC as I do in PVE because of lag, but combat is still very exciting. I do not miss it at all.

    Edited by gatekeeper13 on July 1, 2020 8:45PM
  • amm7sb14_ESO
    amm7sb14_ESO
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    Rianai wrote: »
    It makes about as much sense as throwing fireballs at each other. Just imagine ...

    This is a fantasy game, not reality. Also functionality is way more important than visuals.


    It's a fantasy game which goes against it's own rules and it's own logic. You activate an ability its casting you have cancelled. It is totally absurd, like being a wizard who starts casting a spell and before even saying the words, the spell is completed.

    Although it's a bug, they kept in game because they couldn't fix it and somehow became a norm. A member of ZOS staff has confessed that in a post sometime ago.

    Also, I think AC is totally useless and does not make the gameplay any more interesting. E.g in Cyro it is impossible for me to AC as I do in PVE because of lag, but combat is still very exciting. I do not miss it at all.

    If anything, AC makes combat less fun for me, because I feel pressured that I have to make sure I have to get every single light attack in and if I miss one it throws off the whole rotation.

    Combat would be far more engaging for me if it was just removed altogether.
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