Animation cancelling

Colinr1968

On ps4 when I die I look to see what I was or who killed by I see likes of dawn breaker, but damn if I ever see it hit me or any of the last 5 hits,so is animation cancelling still come into effect or are people using macros and modes controllers do do there rotations.

NeillMcAttack

Currently, the net coding is all over the place, one second I can’t get any spell to work, then they all go off at once. This also seems to be the case for my enemies, they seem to be getting no attacks off one second, then my health bar disappears.

The time it takes between attacks for each individual is supposed to be around 0.9 seconds. But currently it feels random, some skills take 0.5, some 1.5. It is a total crapshoot, and frankly ZOS should be very disappointed in the state of ESO combat.

Uryel

Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...

Stahlor

Animation Cancelling is the reason why ESO's combat system is amazing. If we all would just press a button with a 1 second cooldown, it would be extremely boring.
The problem you're talking about is not convcerning to animation cancelling, it's solely the insane lag this game has in the moment.

TankHealz2015

Soon to be fixed... (or maybe just changed)
When they flip/flop the effects of light attack versus heavy attacks.
Light attacks will return more resources so light attack weaving and cancelling will not boost your damage so much (if at all?)
heavy attacks will do lots more damage but return less if any resources.
Already went to PTS once, but lots of outcry and they pulled it.
Understandably so.
The most skilled and experienced players are the ones doing the light attack weaving and cancelling and probably also the ones doing the bulk of testing on PTS (my opinion)... so they would be the ones also most likely to not want this sort of a change.
Take away the light attack weaving/cancelling and instantly the gap between great and just average players is reduced.

colossalvoids

It's a server lag issues, you just getting it at once at your screen and nothing more. Wonder when they'll take their heads out of sand and actually upgrade it to more-less working state despite all forced events etc.

relentless_turnip

You can't do more than 1 skill a second, but you can time things so they land at the same time.
So a stamden might go: subterranean assault -light attack - dizzy - light attack - executioner. The subterranean, light attack and executioner will land near enough the same time, as light attack has a separate cool down from your skills and subterranean is a delayed skill.

They could do dawnbreaker in place of the executioner or dizzy and do massive damage all at once. If you practice, duel with friends and analyse your death you will learn to do the same and counter someone's burst.

I can assure you during my time playing I have never met someone who is cheating or exploiting. Animation cancelling is literally where you end the animation early. Like pressing heal and roll dodging. Rebuffing and hitting block. These will cut the animation short with a priority action, but cannot make you cast skills any faster.

I rarely block cancel anything, which everyone considers an exploit. In PvP it will make very little difference. I frequently roll dodge cancel and weapon swap cancel, but not consciously.
I do recommend you learn to light attack weave. This is literally pressing light attack before each skill. Takes seconds to learn but boosts your damage significantly.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

all of the above, skills, la/ha, bash and block have diff cool downs, i find the probs is that its not just one person but 5+ so the burst damage will kill you quick and not always show, zos needs to have a dps lowering when multiple players on 1, but the biggest problem is the server not up to the job

Fur_like_snow

You cannot animation cancel dawn breaker anymore. It sounds like your issue(beside playing on console) is poor server performance

catnamedwill

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

You cannot animation cancel dawn breaker anymore. It sounds like your issue(beside playing on console) is poor server performance

@Fur_like_snow You can animation cancel any cast time abilities with a medium attack.

Fur_like_snow

Yeah but than the DB won’t fire. Once upon a time DB had the cleanest cancel in the game if done correctly you wouldn’t see any animation and the ultimate would fire. That’s not the case anymore.

OP said he got hit with five abilities and an ultimate(DB) but didn’t see the animation. That’s a server performance issue not DB being animation canceled.

deleted221106-002999

Stahlor wrote: »

Animation Cancelling is the reason why ESO's combat system is amazing. If we all would just press a button with a 1 second cooldown, it would be extremely boring.
The problem you're talking about is not convcerning to animation cancelling, it's solely the insane lag this game has in the moment.

Defintely this.

Somtimes you can watch, for example, a gap closer seem to take an eternity to cross the space between you, subjectively so long you have heaps of virtual time to slurp some coffee, read some stuff then pick your response/skills.

And other times you see nothing but your death recap shows you got slammed by 5 attacks in <1 second.

The only time skill actually comes into any of this is on those extraordinarily rare occasions when the server decides you and your opponent(s) exist in the same inertial frame - then you can actually get some interesting combat.

Then some other guy zooms in with better latency and trashes you all.

But then, sometimes, you are that other guy.

Arca94

A player who constantly blames their own deaths on other players using animation cancelling, macros, cheating or exploits is a player who will never get better or fully understand the game.

What you experienced sounds like the server lag we've all been complaining about for years.

That's it. Nothing more. No one is 'cheating' or 'using macros' - even if macros were a thing you still wouldn't be able to bypass the 1 second global cooldown on abilities.

You can't even animation cancel Dawnbreaker due to its ridiculous 0.5s cast time anymore, so you can't blame that either.

DocFrost72

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Soon to be fixed... (or maybe just changed)
When they flip/flop the effects of light attack versus heavy attacks.
Light attacks will return more resources so light attack weaving and cancelling will not boost your damage so much (if at all?)
heavy attacks will do lots more damage but return less if any resources.
Already went to PTS once, but lots of outcry and they pulled it.
Understandably so.
The most skilled and experienced players are the ones doing the light attack weaving and cancelling and probably also the ones doing the bulk of testing on PTS (my opinion)... so they would be the ones also most likely to not want this sort of a change.
Take away the light attack weaving/cancelling and instantly the gap between great and just average players is reduced.

The reason it didn't go live is because testers noted it created an even bigger gap between skilled and unskilled players, friend.

Vevvev

Sounds more like lag instead of animation cancelling. Even if someone cancelled the animation you'd still see the special effects that'd play when dawnbreaker hits the ground. Animation cancelling light attacks is so easy most people do it without realizing it, and animation cancelling abilities only makes the ability hit sooner. The flip side of the coin to animation cancelling an ability though is that the global cool down stops you from casting another ability instantly. Means you can't unleash 10 million fireballs in a second like some people think it does.

Eifleber

I also want riding lesson animation cancelling so I don' t have to login with every character and still upgrade riding skills!!

Sergykid

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2126976552

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

We've had to remove a few non-constructive and baiting comments. Please remember that while it’s alright to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable on our forums.

MehrunesFlagon

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Soon to be fixed... (or maybe just changed)
When they flip/flop the effects of light attack versus heavy attacks.
Light attacks will return more resources so light attack weaving and cancelling will not boost your damage so much (if at all?)
heavy attacks will do lots more damage but return less if any resources.
Already went to PTS once, but lots of outcry and they pulled it.
Understandably so.
The most skilled and experienced players are the ones doing the light attack weaving and cancelling and probably also the ones doing the bulk of testing on PTS (my opinion)... so they would be the ones also most likely to not want this sort of a change.
Take away the light attack weaving/cancelling and instantly the gap between great and just average players is reduced.

They should just remove heavy attacks from the game.Then give all classes skills in their rotations in order to sustain.

idk

Uryel wrote: »

Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...

Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.

El_Borracho

No. Its lag. And I'm guessing its the desync from snipe that you are talking about. It can also happen if you are in a large-scale battle in Cyrodiil. Its server performance, not your PS4

Its also crept over to PVE in some instances. Like when you are running a dungeon and suddenly die after defeating a mob. Though, that has been fixes with Greymoor fully coming out.

lucky_Sage

That’s not animation canceling that is straight lag. With animation canceling you will Atleast see the start of the ability. But right now lag is god aweful right now I even have trouble having abilties go off on a target dummy with no other place in house

bluebird

idk wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...

Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.

Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
Games can have fast paced combat, with a lot of haste and short cast times, for quick and reactive combat.
But the only way ESO can even pretend its combat is interesting is by keeping a bug ingame? Lol.

The game is simply not built for AC and it shows. AC looks spastic and glitchy, flinging LAs during stuttering interrupted skill casts that still do their full damage. It simply shouldn't be this way. If a player interrupts their previous action (by blocking, switching bars, etc) the previous action shouldn't count as complete and shouldn't land its damage. That would still allow for reactive gameplay without this bug-turned-feature.

And FYI other games have 'off the GCD' abilities that they can fire off between regular skills, and those abilities are built for that - they have short cast times and no or very quick animations, that can display between the regular skills. It looks far more polished. But ESO doesn't. They keep adding cast times and long animations to skills while also expecting players to cancel them - what the actual hell is the point of that?

If you want to embrace buttonmashing combat, get rid of animations if by design you don't want anybody to see them because you want your game to play without completing animations. Or speed up all skills so they fit between 2 LAs. Or, if you want animations on your skills then remove AC. Cause ESO's combat looks like a glitchy joke and it's honestly a pain to look at my characters getting spasming seizures because you decided to leave a bug ingame instead of fixing it.

idk

bluebird wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...

Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.

Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.

You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.

idk

El_Borracho wrote: »

No. Its lag.

lucky_Sage wrote: »

That’s not animation canceling that is straight lag.

In Cyrodiil, what these two said is the likely issue.

bluebird

idk wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...

Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.

Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.

You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.

Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact. Fast paced combat doesn't have to involve seizures that display a character writhing in jittery motions as they fire of LAs from weapons that pop in and out of existence between their hands being busy casting other animations, nor does it involve a weapon that gets barely held but disappears immediately after it was barswapped and still resulting in a completed AoE. That is objectively a glitchy animation, and damage that registers off of incomplete casts is a bug, whether it was embraced or not.

AC isn't synonymous with fast paced combat. (Fact)
It's rather sad if ESO devs and players can't imagine any other way. (This part is an opinion).

colossalvoids

bluebird wrote: »

idk wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...

Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.

Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.

You are entitled to your opinion but "spazzing out" is just that.

Erm, no. What I wrote is a simple fact.

It's not and probably even you know that.

Anotherone773

Colinr1968 wrote: »

On ps4 when I die I look to see what I was or who killed by I see likes of dawn breaker, but damn if I ever see it hit me or any of the last 5 hits,so is animation cancelling still come into effect or are people using macros and modes controllers do do there rotations.

That sounds like a desync or lag to me. The same happens to me in BGs sometimes. Im doing fine and then i suddenly get hit a bunch of times by one person and die in a couple of seconds. Sometimes that person "lag ports" from across the field to me and does all this in a couple of seconds. Note during this whole time im running 60-90 FPS and 100-150ms ping.

Infectious1X

bluebird wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Animation canceling is a typical "bug turned feature" in ESO. They never got around fixing it, so they just declared it to be a normal thing...

Not the case. Zos could have fixed it by simplifying combat to make ESO like old combat systems like WoW and FF14. They decided that the robust and active combat system we have in ESO was more desirable. It really is that simple since combat in this game is one of the key features that separates ESO from other major MMORPG titles. A key part of ESO's success.

Erm... there is a difference between fast paced combat and spazzing out your character with animation canceling.
Games can have fast paced combat, with a lot of haste and short cast times, for quick and reactive combat.
But the only way ESO can even pretend its combat is interesting is by keeping a bug ingame? Lol.

The game is simply not built for AC and it shows. AC looks spastic and glitchy, flinging LAs during stuttering interrupted skill casts that still do their full damage. It simply shouldn't be this way. If a player interrupts their previous action (by blocking, switching bars, etc) the previous action shouldn't count as complete and shouldn't land its damage. That would still allow for reactive gameplay without this bug-turned-feature.

And FYI other games have 'off the GCD' abilities that they can fire off between regular skills, and those abilities are built for that - they have short cast times and no or very quick animations, that can display between the regular skills. It looks far more polished. But ESO doesn't. They keep adding cast times and long animations to skills while also expecting players to cancel them - what the actual hell is the point of that?

If you want to embrace buttonmashing combat, get rid of animations if by design you don't want anybody to see them because you want your game to play without completing animations. Or speed up all skills so they fit between 2 LAs. Or, if you want animations on your skills then remove AC. Cause ESO's combat looks like a glitchy joke and it's honestly a pain to look at my characters getting spasming seizures because you decided to leave a bug ingame instead of fixing it.

Many of us enjoy the combat this game offers by constantly being active with something. I imagine BDO is one example of something you are likely referring to as the combat is very quick and fluid, yet without animation canceling. ESO still remains my top MMO for combat, even above BDO, as it’s more engaging with animation canceling because it gives you FULL control of your character. Even with fast animations, BDO still locks you in, which slows down the pace. It shows in a very obvious way which players are skilled and which need some practice. The outplay potential is enormous and perhaps the highest of any MMO I’ve ever played. Whether or not you find it “illogical” or “spazzy” matters little in the end as it is still just an opinion and everyone has different tastes.

There are plenty of games with animation canceling built in, whether intentionally or not, including WoW. Whether it’s as obvious as ESO doesn’t matter. I guess every skill or action in every game with canceling should be written off as incomplete or ineffective until it has completed 100% of the animation if we go based off of your view.

furiouslog

It's not animation canceling per se that's causing this issue, it's server lag, or lag that is deliberately being caused on the client side by the attacker. If you google "lag switch", you can see that there are scripts and macros (or in the case of consoles, hardware devices) that will deliberately drop your connection for a short period, during which you can still spam attacks, and then reengage your connection which causes all of the skills to fire at once as the server catches up. Sometimes it occurs naturally due to the server being overwhelmed, so it's difficult to prove that someone is actually using the exploit. There are videos of this technique being used in ESO specifically.

I've been one shot by players who appeared to me as if they had done absolutely nothing, then all of a sudden I am dead and my recap comes up with a dawnbreaker or a magnum shot and a pile of heavies.I'm sure in many cases it's just the server and it happens when there are a ton of players around and everyone is stuck or lagging, but I've also run into it when no one else was around and there was no lag up to that point - I'm just suddenly dead with no in game animations, sounds, or anything that indicated that I was being attacked. I've just accepted it as part of the game, that there are cheaters who do a considerable amount of research and testing in order to gain this unfair advantage, but that they are not so prevalent that it completely ruins the game.

nemvar

What we needs is a more robust animation system that can more fluently interpolate between the canceled animation and the new one or just straight up modify the old one to display the effect of the new skill.
The trivial solution to "remove animation canceling" makes this game feel absolutely horrible.