ESO Game Performance Work Communication

TheRealPotoroo

Sephyr wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

ZOS_MikaS wrote: »

Greetings,

We wanted to take this opportunity to remind the community about our appeals process for moderator actions. Please remember that we are happy to review a specific moderation decision with you, but discussion of moderator actions or decisions on our forums is against our Community Rules.

If you have questions or concerns about a moderator action, please contact help.elderscrollsonline.com so that we can look into it for you.

Thank you for your understanding and for helping us keep this discussion on track.

Problem is chief; the appeal takes longer than a suspension. What good is appealing a post deletion or edit if its days later and lost relevance?

^This. There's also no effective way to report problem moderators. I have a list and I'd LOVE to have a conversation with a supervisor about this.

The present system for complaining about moderators is clumsy, slow and inadequate. What's the point of having a complaint judged by someone with no particular expertise in the area and who sides with the moderator simply out of solidarity?

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We wanted to share with you an update on our plans for communicating upcoming ESO game performance-related work. Starting with Update 27, we will post a preview of the game performance work that is going live with the next update. This forum post will be similar in spirit to the quarterly combat updates (you can see the Update 26 one here).

Your link is absent. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

eKsDee

This is literally the third or fourth one of these threads about performance, not even including the performance roadmap that not only did nothing to actually help server performance (no, optimising asset loading on the client or moving old accounts to cold storage won't help server performance, the former helps client performance and the latter makes the account database more manageable), but actually ended up letting performance get even worse in the same patches.

We don't need more empty promises to fix performance, with a fancy thread that tries its best to explain away the problems, that ultimately ends up in you guys taking a shotgun approach to address performance. We need to see action, we need to see that the devs actually have a handle on this situation, rather than blindly guessing.

Start gathering feedback from players about where performance issues generally occur. Figure out which instances it mostly occurs in, where and when it occurs in those instances, and what's common between those occurrences. If you guys see a pattern in the feedback, like performance generally deteriorates when there's a huge blob of players, start looking at processes on the server that scales to the amount of players in a given area. We need to see that the devs actually know what they're looking for.

Open the PTS, start pushing performance patches to the PTS, and add incentives for players to join the PTS and test the updates. Create events that only occur on the PTS on PC, rewarding players for stacking and intentionally trying to lag the servers out. We need to see the patches as they're being worked on, not when they're ready to be pushed.

Like, I'm sorry, but the moment I saw this, the first thing that popped into my head was "... again?" You guys keep doing the same things, over and over and over, and expecting a different outcome. I applaud you guys for at least opening up this much, but at this point, it's just not good enough. You've tried and failed, tried and failed, tried and failed, enough times that words alone just aren't good enough. We need to see action.

technohic

^some good points. Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

And why can we have a mid cycle PTS to experiment with light and heavy attacks, but not performance changes. Promote events on PTS, add some drops for participants and see if guys like @Fengrush, @JackDaniell will get on board and other PVP streamers to rally their followers. Hope I got the right @names. Your popular PvP streamers have dwindled over the years, and I feel you're running out of time.

kryda

How many people will tackle this "performance-related work"?

Elsonso

kryda wrote: »

How many people will tackle this "performance-related work"?

Lambert said that it is a "big team" but gave no numbers.

ZoeInDreams

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Honestly after all the deleted threads, ignored feedback, and aimless direction pertaining to customer needs....

This.

It really takes some stones to promote a pvp event when your server quality, particularly in the pvp areas, is as bad as it has ever been. It's such a shame too, as this is a great game, let down by its infrastructure.

I've only been back four or five months, but I've read enough posts, letters from directors and 'performance updates' to know that the situation hasn't improved. This is another dose of words to try and mollify the playerbase, and I don't buy it.

I see other players using game-specific VPNs to try and improve the lag. I keep telling them that they're not the problem, and your servers are. But when it's ever brought up in here, it's locked for 'spam'. One of your more prominent ESO content makers made a short video pleading with you to improve your servers - funny how threads about that just disappear.

Well I'm voting with my wallet - my ESO plus expires today, and I'm not renewing until you provide a service that is worth paying for. It's a small and personal gesture of protest that will make little difference to you I'm sure. But why continue to subscribe to something that is broken?

Destai

ZOS_MikaS wrote: »

Greetings,

We wanted to take this opportunity to remind the community about our appeals process for moderator actions. Please remember that we are happy to review a specific moderation decision with you, but discussion of moderator actions or decisions on our forums is against our Community Rules.

If you have questions or concerns about a moderator action, please contact help.elderscrollsonline.com so that we can look into it for you.

Thank you for your understanding and for helping us keep this discussion on track.

We get it.

The problem is we feel stifled. You guys have to remember, this is a game forum not a professional email exchange. We shouldn't feel like every post has to be this super constructive post Socratic dialogue. People feel like we can't post jokes or anything that isn't "constructive" - however your team interprets it.

When we're coming here for ZOS engagement and we see moderation more than anything, it doesn't exactly engender warm feelings towards your team. There's a lot of PR work that needs to be done, and part of it is repairing the perception in the community that we can't speak our minds here. Sometimes our sentiments aren't going to be positive and that's when ZOS should REALLY be listening.

I'll end it there, but come on, you have to see what people are talking about here.

Thank you for your understanding.

Hotdog_23

For the 3-4 time I am so pulling for you ZOS and hoping you get us on the right track but forgive me if I am pessimist about it.

Banana

It's wait and see time

Elsonso

ZoeInDreams wrote: »

It really takes some stones to promote a pvp event when your server quality, particularly in the pvp areas, is as bad as it has ever been. It's such a shame too, as this is a great game, let down by its infrastructure.

In that case, they have stones to spare.

I am somewhat surprised that they did this event, given problems. They must have done something during the maintenance, or possibly at the start of the event, that they thought would reduce the problems.

To be honest, what I saw yesterday was nowhere near as bad as some of the PVE events that they did where they showcased how their server could not handle large crowds in the same place. I could actually move around in EP without the constant short loading screens, although, I still got short loading screens.

silvereyes

Djiku wrote: »

How about an off-cycle PTS where you show us what fixes you got for the performance problems? You invite the players to the PTS with a nice incentive. I am not talking about a pet or something like that. Something that has worth, that a lot of players would say "Hey, if I participate in this, this thing I get is really nice, I want that". Then you can test the fixes in a better environment then your internal servers.

This exactly. I thought the off-cycle PTS test for the experimental U26 heavy attack / light attack changes (which were reverted) was an awesome model for testing big upcoming changes. Obviously, it's harder to load test PTS, but a testing event with a nice incentive that's heavily publicized (not just on the forums, but also twitter, reddit, the main website, etc), happens during prime time, and is announced at least a couple weeks in advance would come close. Sure, it won't simulate true max load from live, but it'll help identify any glaring issues like those which broke the U26 launch.

rpa

A pessimist will have only happy surprises. Not expecting any.

Edit: Suggest digging the communications improvements from its' grave and practicing some nercromancy on it. I honestly excpect performance improvemements are going to be buried into same graveyeard as that. Show how wrong I am with my cynicism.

vamp_emily

I haven't played since Greymoor release but ESO has PvP players in the game that have been basically yelling [snip] for a very long time and Zeni wants to release pre-patch-notes communication threads to make them feel better? I don't think that is going to help.

How about the development team leaders step up and be real leaders and answer some tough community questions? Instead of closing threads, how about leaders actually look into their complaints and talk about them?

[Edited to remove Inappropriate Content]

Thechuckage

Action speak louder than words. Past (in)actions are still shouting pretty loud from where I'm sitting.

Willing to be amenable, unwilling to be milked and bilked.

Elsonso

silvereyes wrote: »

I thought the off-cycle PTS test for the experimental U26 heavy attack / light attack changes (which were reverted) was an awesome model for testing big upcoming changes.

I like that format, as well, and hope they use it a couple of times when they do Champion Points.

Don't assume that they "reverted" anything. I think they they were prepared to finish it and ship something, if the community loved it. I don't think that it was something that was in there, poised to be released, and then they removed it. I think we will see it again, when they dial it in a little better.

I think PTS will be less than useless for performance testing.

Keledus

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We also have a cross-discipline group digging into the longstanding problems specifically in Cyrodiil, and how to best address them. This team is actively working on long-term Cyrodill performance analysis and planning for changes/fixes.

This is good to hear, actions speak louder than words tho so can't wait to see what actually happens.

Sarousse

Too late.

Saepio

Been playing since 2014.

The current performance of the game during the current event in Cyrodiil is the worst I have experienced.

I simply do not believe a word you say anymore.

Hurbster

I'm looking forward to seeing what will be fixed on the 29th. There is a heck of a lot that needs doing.

Elsonso

Hurbster wrote: »

I'm looking forward to seeing what will be fixed on the 29th. There is a heck of a lot that needs doing.

Yes. The dev and QA teams have to get their act together for the Monday patch. It's too late, if they have not, but this patch really needs to move mountains.

Thechuckage

I would recommend tempering your expectations from past experiences. Maybe they will knock it out of the park, but looking at the track record as of late? Big oof.

Lannharr

Thanks!

I moved to the NA server in the mean time.

Hurbster

Shouldn't we have one of those messages at the top of the page warning us about the upcoming maintenance/fixes by now ?

Levianna

Thanks for the good will to communicate with us on that way.

Pls solve the long loading screen issue because i have to repair installation at everyday's base in order to get rid of these.

Gythral

I think I'd settle for
effective action
over waffle - everyday!

DBA

Great to hear and good start.

This however doesn’t address the lack of trust that ZOS has with its community, nor remotely apologizes, or compensates, for a blatantly ignored problem that has been occurring for months. In today’s US situation, the word privilege comes to mind. @ZOS_MattFiror its time to drop it.

On the issue itself. Please get real players, with actual technical background, participating in this initiative. This endless ivory towered approach has limited in demonstrated results.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We wanted to share with you an update on our plans for communicating upcoming ESO game performance-related work. Starting with Update 27, we will post a preview of the game performance work that is going live with the next update. This forum post will be similar in spirit to the quarterly combat updates (you can see the Update 26 one here). It will include a greater level of technical detail and development context than our previous game performance article, and will be focused on the most immediate upcoming game update. You can expect to see these posts a few days before each update goes live on the PTS, so the Update 27 one will be next month.

In between the quarterly updates, we will continue to ask for and read feedback, investigate issues raised by the community, and provide answers where and when we are able. We also have a cross-discipline group digging into the longstanding problems specifically in Cyrodiil, and how to best address them. This team is actively working on long-term Cyrodill performance analysis and planning for changes/fixes.

We will continue to reach out to individual players for more specific details about issues or areas in need of improvement that we’re actively investigating. Once each update is live, we’ll also check back in with everyone to ask how the improvements feel and gather more data. We often need to see game performance work in action on the live servers to gauge if the results match the goal, and if additional work is needed. When the Update 27 improvements go live on the PTS in July, we encourage everyone on PC/Mac to hop in give us your feedback on the PTS forums.

Thank you!

ghost_bg_ESO

1. does going between live and pts still requires every-time download of eso, or it is already possible to have both downloaded on one pc? - if it is more simple probably more people will join even just from curiosity.Edit: this one is actually possible i didn't keep attention.
2. what will be different this time and bugs reported at pts won't appear after at live (for example fence bug that made it from pts through pc to consoles, as this one is known from everyone)?

relentless_turnip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Be18-FU9SI

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno

I created this video, highlighting some of the issues I have encountered over the last few days.

Please do not delete, it is was made with the intent that it could help you fix it.

I may start a thread where everyone can submit their performance based videos.

let me know if it helps.

dhboy123

How many of these threads are going to be made? The trust has already been lost, quite a while ago in fact.

All this topic seems to be is an eventual downsizing of updates from ZOS, which in turn means the eventual downsize of updates for the game. The unfortunate state of affairs within this game mean that there are no updates being done to even the most important aspects of the game (PvP and framerate in most locations)..

What hope does the average player have of any updates to so many problems within the game (BG/crafting/class balances and many others) when the developers of the game cannot even fix the most talked about issue that has been going on for almost a year.

Again, no faith from the community, that's the death of any game.

technohic

Seeing the month long waited patch notes makes this feel even more like lip service. Nothing there.