Upgraded Version of the Kyne's Aegis Trial Skin in the Crown Crates (Why This is a Bad Decision)

Kiralyn2000

skinnycheeks wrote: »

When I earned my hideous purple skin from completing Veteran Cloudrest +3, I didn't care that it was ugly and looked like giant purple wrinkles. I wanted to wear it everywhere because I was proud of the achievement.

And your Ugly Purple Wrinkles skin still represents that achievement.

The Ugly Black w/Silver Wrinkles skin represents "I opened some crates".

Given that you said yourself that it's not the actual appearance of the skin that matters - just what it represents - how has your skin been devalued at all?



(Also, it's nice that you think wearing a skin shows off how accomplished you are - just be aware that, between the outfits that cover the skins up & how many people don't recognize what most skins mean at all, it's probably only demonstrating your achievement to a few of the people around you.)

Heelie

With 99% of mounts and cosmetics in this game being tied to the clown store, I don't understand why people feel it's fair that the Clown store should have almost identical carbon copies of skins and mounts from the veteran trials in this game. How is it elitist to keep a couple of skins, and one mount exclusive to veteran content, when literally everything else is tied to the clown store?

In most other MMOs the minority of cosmetics and gear is accessable on easier difficulties and in the store, compare that to ESO where you can get almost identical gear on normal mode, and almost all cosmetics are tied to the clown store.

WrathOfInnos

Thannazzar wrote: »

This sounds like a-

'it is not enough that I succeed, everyone else must fail. "

post from the OP. Is the accomplishment of completing content not reward enough?

No, it’s literally not. Kyne’s Aegis is the least rewarding piece of content ever released. I agree with Skinny that skins from vAS and vCR HM’s felt like more of an accomplishment, but I also really liked the reward structure from Sunspire last year. To demonstrate the point, let’s compare KA and SS.

Gear:
Sunspire 3/4 sets were BiS, only Navi was considered decon material
Kyne’s Aegis: 1 set is semi-useful (RO), but full of problems, the other 3 are just trash. No sets for DPS or tanks to enjoy, and all feedback was ignored.

Vet Clear:
Sunspire: Fire and Ice skin. Nice looking, and a noticeable improvement on the similar ice skin that was from the previous event
Kyne’s Aegis: Bleh skin, that most consider worse than the crown store version

All Achievements:
Sunspire: IMO the best mount in the game, and (after some backlash) noticeably different than the crown store equivalent
Kyne’s Aegis: A strange momento that offers no real use.

I’ve been running vKA because there has been a serious lack of new content recently, but I have no plans on using a single “reward” from this trial.

Apox

Crown store receives entirely too much development time. There needs to be more earnable skins mounts and titles in the game, and far fewer buyable ones.

Nairinhe

They are different enough for me and the trial one looks more... stylish? natural? Don't know, I just think it's better.

karekiz

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Those dungeons are really hard to get through anyway, and now you're demanding that we also get three other people who are amazing to not die (or also avoid dying to RNG) just to get a cosmetic. Things like the Beast and Worm Wizard personalities are great for the RP crowd, particularly now with the Necromancer class and the Greymoor theme, but some people may not be as good at running dungeons so they just get to sit and wish or find mercenaries to buy carries.

You can RP and do well at dungeons at the same time. The only issue I have with "No-Death" is the same issues Diablo has with Hardcore. It depends on latency and hope-you-or-your-buddy doesn't DC syndrome. Not that its an easy fix <Though I guess for dungeons you can make it a personal achievement regardless of group death>.

In the end it should be for vet trials:

Normal = Non perfected Gear - No title. No Skin. Just the gear.
Vet base clear = Title + Perfected gear. Base difficulty no additional "bonus difficulties". You get Perfected Gear/Title <Includes easy stuff like VCR+0>
Vet HM = Skin - Full Clear with highest Difficulty <VCR+3>
Vet Trifecta = Mount - Not sold in store. Very rare.

So It goes:
Gear
Gear
Cosmetic
Cosmetic

NeillMcAttack

fierackas wrote: »

The store version should be better as people spend real money on it. Having a skin freely available from a trial devalues the skin.

Interesting to see that your definition of value is solely of the monetary sort. What about the value in ones achievements, their effort, their time, their commitment?

dcam86b14_ESO

They look similar but they aren't the same. There are many outfits and skins with similarities but no one makes an uproar bc well it's a very meniscal thing.

They have been feeding us the same reskin mounts for years and you chose a skin as your platform. K.

heaven13

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

They look similar but they aren't the same. There are many outfits and skins with similarities but no one makes an uproar bc well it's a very meniscal thing.

They have been feeding us the same reskin mounts for years and you chose a skin as your platform. K.

Mounts and costumes that were originally sold on the store then reskinned and sold again is different than content that is awarded for hard achievements being earned and then very slightly tweaked to be sold on the crown store.

Vaoh

They listened to us on Clockwork City PTS when we said to change the vAS skin’s eyes from orange to blue, in order to differentiate it from the vHoF skin.

We asked for them to change the face of the vKA to have white glowing eyes but they didn’t listen to us this time..... I think it’s pretty telling that their mindset is very different this time around.

They don’t care in the slightest for endgame PvE. Near identical rewards (which are actually slightly better) are being offered for $$$ and you can best believe it is 100% intentional.

WhyMustItBe

I think perhaps if it wasn't for the non-stop spam selling carries for these "achievements" to anyone with around 1 million gold flooding chat like the good old gold spammers of old ZOS might be inclined to take this more seriously.

As it is, unless they want to take a stance against people farming gold from people wanting the prize without winning the contest, the entire idea of this being a unique and exclusive achievement has already been totally devalued.

Ironically it is mostly the same people complaining about losing their exclusive bragging rights who's guilds sponsor these gold farming runs selling the "achievement" to every noob and his brother. :rolleyes:

TheTwistedRune

The skins while similar, are different. So surely if there are people who care enough to be impressed by the trial skin, then you'd think they would be able to tell the difference. IMO most of the people you pass in game have little interest in how others look, so I don't see much of a problem here.

If you are saying that the crown store one looks better, then that's a purely subjective statement. Personally, I actually prefer the trial one. Looks more weathered and realistic to me.

UGotBenched91

skinnycheeks wrote: »

Why do we like having cosmetic rewards like skins in video games? Sure, they look cool. But the truth is: we like them as rewards because they are a visual representation of an accomplishment. When I earned my hideous purple skin from completing Veteran Cloudrest +3, I didn't care that it was ugly and looked like giant purple wrinkles. I wanted to wear it everywhere because I was proud of the achievement.

But skins in this game have been continually devalued, now all the way to the point where an upgraded version of a Trial reward skin is being offered for purchase. And make no mistake about it...it is an upgraded version. More details are present in the design and there are higher quality outlines and definition in the design. What is the point in seeking out the skin as an accomplishment when a better version can simply be bought?

History of the Devaluing

This devaluing started in the Horns of the Reach 4-man dungeon pack when you swapped out the Bloodroot Forge skin for a Crown Crate hat, opting to instead sell the skin. The rewarded hat was nearly identical to two other versions in the crown crates. It was pretty clear what had happened. Then the next two dungeon packs, Dragon Bones and Wolfhunter, were perfect - a skin and a personality as the rewards, thought and effort put into the theme and detail of both.

Then you guys decided that the rewards would no longer come from earning each of the Trinity achievements (the no-death, the hard-mode, and the speedrun) and instead be earned from just clearing on Veteran mode. While I don't agree with making the rewards easier to obtain, I can at least understand why it was done. More people may attempt veteran content if they feel rewards are in reach. It makes sense. The same happened with the latest two 12-Person Trials. Only Veteran difficulty required for the skins instead of the HM difficultly that Asylum Sanctorium and Cloudrest requried. But nevertheless, it does devalue the reward when it is not as difficult to obtain.

Now, a nearly identical skin is sold except it is a BETTER version than the reward in game. It's bad enough that it is so similar, but to put the better version for sale is quite the low-blow.

Will You Please Listen?

@ZOS_Finn This is content you and your team work hard on and people deserve high quality, unique rewards for completing its challenges. They deserve rewards they can show off and be proud of. You really should fight back against those that are doing this because it really takes away from the work that you and your team are putting in.

@ZOS_RichLambert You play the game, you care about the game - please don't let stuff like this interfere with the integrity of the game. I realize what is in the game is done, and unlikely to be changed - but can we please do better going forward?

This game makes so much money - it's been on Steam's platinum seller list for like 3 years in a row and I don't think the majority of the player base even launches from Steam. I don't think taking rewards away from earning achievements in game and sticking them up for $$$ is really going to hurt the financial income of the game. If anything, it will make the game more money because people would respect the integrity of the game and want to support it. We understand the need for a cash-shop, but it shouldn't be intertwined with the in-game rewards systems!!

Please do better. I've been supporting this game for a long time and stuff like this makes me feel a little sick to my stomach about continuing to support a company that continues to push a little further and further with the monetization.

Where does it end? Where do you guys draw the line?

I agree with what you’re saying. But, they need to also start adding in better visual rewards than skin dying.

Nord_Raseri

I like the markings(especially on the arms) on the trial skin a lot better. What they should have done is just sold the markings as a body tattoo instead of selling the skin.

Dragonnord

Groups selling skin carries all over Tamriel, so who cares or, better said, who can tell who obtained a skin with skills and effort or with $$$ anymore?

A player with a sking tells nothing in the game nowadays. You just can't tell if it's legit or not.
 

fierackas

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

fierackas wrote: »

The store version should be better as people spend real money on it. Having a skin freely available from a trial devalues the skin.

Interesting to see that your definition of value is solely of the monetary sort. What about the value in ones achievements, their effort, their time, their commitment?

My post was slightly tongue in cheek but to answer your question, I don't put much stock in life towards what I achieve whilst playing a game for recreation.

Jeffrey530

Jacozilla wrote: »

Thannazzar wrote: »

This sounds like a-

'it is not enough that I succeed, everyone else must fail. "

post from the OP. Is the accomplishment of completing content not reward enough?

From a psychological perspective the need to own and flaunt something that some cannot achieve is not healthy.

Is the knowledge that you got from hard work what others had to pay hard cash for a chance of getting not sufficient?

Your viewpoint, however admirable some may find it to be, goes against the entire history of humanity.

Tokens of status, prestige, and/or accomplishment has been a thing since the invention of the crudest forms of human society. No matter how different we think some nations, tribes, or historical civs has been, one common denominator has been that aside from some outliers and saints, the reasons ppl like to show their tokens is precisely because it does matter even if the degree to which it matters has some reasonable variance.

If the accomplishment of something was just the reward in itself, we'd still be using mud huts and sticks.

so what's the issue if some ppl can buy a similar skin? If ur gonna use the real world as an example, money can pretty much buy u anything anyways

Dark_Lord_Kuro

I dont wear skin on my character they are all ugly and make character look like its not part of the world
So to me skins are useless reward i would see no differance if we never get a new one

belial5221_ESO

Trail version looks better,like it's actually worn some more realistically.The crown store one is too new,like it's painted on too thick and given a dropshadow effect.

SpiderKnight

I'm not even going to bother reading. I stopped when you said "they are a visual representation of an accomplishment."
They aren't anymore, and they haven't been for a long time. People buy/sell skins, and I'm willing to bet there are more people that pay for skin runs than there are people that actually run a trial and earn it. So this whole" stop ruining my achievement" is old and it doesn't matter anymore.

gatekeeper13

SpiderKnight wrote: »

I'm not even going to bother reading. I stopped when you said "they are a visual representation of an accomplishment."
They aren't anymore, and they haven't been for a long time. People buy/sell skins, and I'm willing to bet there are more people that pay for skin runs than there are people that actually run a trial and earn it. So this whole" stop ruining my achievement" is old and it doesn't matter anymore.

Know why this happening? Let's say there are people who play ESO 1 hour per day max. They don't have the time to participate in vet trial teams/guilds, they don't have the time to practice and improve, to create strong builds but they like very much a skin that is locked behind a difficult vet trial content. And they want the skin for cosmetic reasons only, not to show off or pretend they are skilled PVE players. What do you expect them to do? Ofc they will pay to buy carry runs.

SpiderKnight

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

SpiderKnight wrote: »

I'm not even going to bother reading. I stopped when you said "they are a visual representation of an accomplishment."
They aren't anymore, and they haven't been for a long time. People buy/sell skins, and I'm willing to bet there are more people that pay for skin runs than there are people that actually run a trial and earn it. So this whole" stop ruining my achievement" is old and it doesn't matter anymore.

Know why this happening? Let's say there are people who play ESO 1 hour per day max. They don't have the time to participate in vet trial teams/guilds, they don't have the time to practice and improve, to create strong builds but they like very much a skin that is locked behind a difficult vet trial content. And they want the skin for cosmetic reasons only, not to show off or pretend they are skilled PVE players. What do you expect them to do? Ofc they will pay to buy carry runs.

I'm not complaining about that, I'm just stating it's silly to complain about crown store skins that are supposedly ruining their special achievement, when there has been trial skin sellers for years.

Twilanthe

I am torn on this issue.

I am someone who does believe that the most challenging content should have the best rewards. I'm not a good player, I will never complete the Sunspire hardmode and get the skin and mount, and I will never be Emperor, and that's fine by me. I would not want those things handed to me for free, because I agree it would devalue what those rewards represent for those players who had the skill to obtain them.

That said, ZOS is also a company that needs to make money to support continued content creation for the game that I love. I am not the type of person who sees sleazy, money grabbing plots behind every new hairstyle. People don't want to pay money for crappy, less good looking versions of things in the game. No one looks at my new crown store mount with awe and envy; they see someone who makes poor cash decisions. So why would I pay real money for something that not only has the mild stigma of "you paid real money for those pixels?" and also looks like a less impressive version of something in game. My crown store purchases impress literally no one, I buy them entirely to please myself because I like them.

So I guess I have no problem with crown store stuff being just as epic as in game rewards, because why else would people buy them? I also think that the in game rewards for really challenging content should look just as epic, and they both should look different.

But I will also go out on a limb and say I doubt this was any kind of intentional tactic to purposefully make a reward skin that looks kinda icky, only to make a much better one in the crown store later. I don't really see the value in that for ZOS, because I don't see a lot of people buying it because it's a better version of the reward. And I don't see many people even buying up a bunch of crates hoping to get this particular skin, it seems a bit niche. (Also, I have it, and I got it 3 times in my pack of 15 crates so either I'm super lucky or this is a higher drop chance skin). More likely its just an unfortunate coincidence that someone on the art team design something similar.

Vaoh

To the PC players, are you getting a bug in Kyne’s Aegis during boss fights where your in-game sound cuts out permanently (until you restart application)?

Im on PS4 and have mostly had this occur on Vet HM for second boss and last boss. It also affects a bunch of players on my raid team at the exact same time. Very frustrating bug atm on top of the huge fps drops/game stuttering issues that came with Greymoor.

karekiz

After looking at them they do kinda look different at least to me. Anyone got a 2D spread of the tattoo from each? The left one looks like...Lines and circles and the right is clearly a sea dragon.

WhyMustItBe

They are similar, not the same. I personally think the trial version looks better in the face, and the crown version looks better in the body.

khajiitNPC

Sorry OP while I agree to an extent with you, I feel there is more pressing issues than vanity rewards.

colossalvoids

Vaoh wrote: »

To the PC players, are you getting a bug in Kyne’s Aegis during boss fights where your in-game sound cuts out permanently (until you restart application)?

Im on PS4 and have mostly had this occur on Vet HM for second boss and last boss. It also affects a bunch of players on my raid team at the exact same time. Very frustrating bug atm on top of the huge fps drops/game stuttering issues that came with Greymoor.

Had only 2-3 hm runs so sample is quite small but no issues like that so far, didn't heard of it before.

starkerealm

Apox wrote: »

Crown store receives entirely too much development time. There needs to be more earnable skins mounts and titles in the game, and far fewer buyable ones.

It's actually worse than that. The crown store team slurps off work from the rest of the team and sells it. While I'm not sure on the exact flow, it wouldn't surprise me if the original goal was a normal and a vet clear skin, and then the crown team wandered through, pulled the vet skin and was like, "this is mine now."

wild_kmacdb16_ESO

They both look ridiculous. I think you should stick with titles if you want to brag