Dear Loremaster.

SidraWillowsky

Elsonso wrote: »

Additionally, I am pretty sure that the Falmer do not have handy magical do-dads, so how did they get in there?

I figured that because they were enslaved by the Dwemer they'd been there for thousands of years and were originally brought there by the Dwemer.

I just don't like that they took one of the most memorable areas of TES V and expanded on it. IMO it should have remained self-contained to TES V and it feels like they only did this to sell the game by pandering to nostalgia. Of course that's a common marketing thing so I'm not super surprised, but it just seems like they've taken unnecessary liberties. It would be like adding a bunch of new material for Vivec (the god, not the city). Are there ways to do so that won't contradict any of the existing lore/backstory? Sure. But... why? He's featured heavily in Morrowind, and Kirkbride crafted him to be a certain way and provided us with a LOT of character development, and it would seem odd to try to add to that. I feel the same way about ESO's Blackreach.

Jaraal

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Or it's just because ZOS does stuff the way they want it to be, and doesn't give a rat's patoot about what came before.... um... after?

Exactly this.

You're talking about the people that made Bosmer unstealthy, Argonians susceptible to poisons, introduced dragons to the Age Of Man where they don't belong, brought back characters we sacrificed to stop the planemeld to sell new chapters, stole Yokudan banners and passed them off as Legion Zero originals, forced alliances to use traitorous Legion Zero banners as their own..... the list goes on.

The new Loremaster popped in to say hi when he got the job, and was never heard from again. I would be shocked if he still works for ZOS and even more surprised if he actually answers your questions.

Elsonso

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

It would be like adding a bunch of new material for Vivec (the god, not the city). Are there ways to do so that won't contradict any of the existing lore/backstory? Sure. But... why? He's featured heavily in Morrowind, and Kirkbride crafted him to be a certain way and provided us with a LOT of character development, and it would seem odd to try to add to that.

ZOS did add to the Vivec lore. They added an entire Sermon that is lost by the time of the 3rd and 4th Eras. They added a whole chapter (pun intended) of his life that was previously unknown. That included a significant amount of Lore around the city in his name, and the rock hanging over that city, too.

Part of the allure of ESO is that we get to find out more about places and events that happened (will happen) in the TES single player games.

SidraWillowsky

Elsonso wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

It would be like adding a bunch of new material for Vivec (the god, not the city). Are there ways to do so that won't contradict any of the existing lore/backstory? Sure. But... why? He's featured heavily in Morrowind, and Kirkbride crafted him to be a certain way and provided us with a LOT of character development, and it would seem odd to try to add to that.

ZOS did add to the Vivec lore. They added an entire Sermon that is lost by the time of the 3rd and 4th Eras. They added a whole chapter (pun intended) of his life that was previously unknown. That included a significant amount of Lore around the city in his name, and the rock hanging over that city, too.

Part of the allure of ESO is that we get to find out more about places and events that happened (will happen) in the TES single player games.

WOW, how did I not know that the 37th Sermon first appeared in ESO?! Fail on my part. I thought it existed prior to ESO, derp.

I'll say that for me the Vivec stuff is a bit different, because I didn't know anything about Morrowind prior to ESO- I'd only played Skyrim and a bit of Oblivion. When I came into the game and got into the lore, the 37th Sermon already existed, so I learned about it as part of the lore. Contrast that to Skyrim, where I'd completed the game and seen Blackreach and everything- it just feels like they're tacking this on.

For people who HAVEN'T played TES V, I guess it may all make sense if they're learning about Blackreach for the first time now? I don't know if I'm explaining myself well. I guess it depends on when you're discovering this stuff- is it only in ESO, or did you know about this stuff prior via the single-player games... the ESO additions are probably a lot more palatable if you have no prior knowledge.

Qrähe

Ratzkifal wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Or it's just because ZOS does stuff the way they want it to be, and doesn't give a rat's patoot about what came before.... um... after?

But it's been sort of like that since TES:Arena. Each new game expands upon the lore, and sometimes even alters the earlier versions of the lore as it deems necessary. And there are many years between Tamriel of ESO and Tamriel of TES5:Skyrim-- plenty enough time for major geological and geographical changes to occur.

This annoys me. No, there isn't plenty enough time for major geological and geographical changes to occur. We are only 800 years away. Only cataclysmic events could change the land like that but what we see here can definitely not be explained away like that. Not that it needs to anyway. Blackreach is larger than we previously thought and extends all the way to Western Skyrim. We just weren't able to go to that part in TESV but supposedly it was already there.

Maybe something like the Red Year would be considered cataclysmic.

VaranisArano

Galwylin wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Oy. I - um.... well, I guess I will go there....

DRAGONBREAK!!

Well not completely on subject but if there was one thing I dislike most about the lore of this game its the existence of dragonbreaks. About the only place such a concept would ever belong is a Trump speech.

I find that "Dragonbreak!" is an overused term thrown about loosely by fans.

The Dragonbreak at the end of Daggerfall exists to reconcile extremely different player choices and create a unified storyline out of six dissimilar endings. Its an Author ex Machina to keep the series going.

In comparison, ESO is a narrative railroad. There is no choice that impacts the storyline at even the level of Stormcloak vs Imperial. Heck, we can't even kéep the player choice of who to sacrifice in the Main Quest. There's just no need for a Dragonbreak in this game as our Vestige does all the content pretty much the same as every other Vestige.

Sylvermynx

I wasn't being serious at all with that statement....

Elsonso

VaranisArano wrote: »

Galwylin wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Oy. I - um.... well, I guess I will go there....

DRAGONBREAK!!

Well not completely on subject but if there was one thing I dislike most about the lore of this game its the existence of dragonbreaks. About the only place such a concept would ever belong is a Trump speech.

I find that "Dragonbreak!" is an overused term thrown about loosely by fans.

The Dragonbreak at the end of Daggerfall exists to reconcile extremely different player choices and create a unified storyline out of six dissimilar endings. Its an Author ex Machina to keep the series going.

In comparison, ESO is a narrative railroad. There is no choice that impacts the storyline at even the level of Stormcloak vs Imperial. Heck, we can't even kéep the player choice of who to sacrifice in the Main Quest. There's just no need for a Dragonbreak in this game as our Vestige does all the content pretty much the same as every other Vestige.

Agreed. No Dragonbreak is necessary. The Lore just picks an outcome, rationalizes it, and moves on.

On the other thing you mention, the Skyrim civil war, I expect that if BGS needs a winner, they will just pick one. Same thing. TES 6 may not care who won, so there will be no stories told about the ending. If there is, one will be provided.

dcam86b14_ESO

BlueRaven wrote: »

I think the answer they gave is that Blackreach is larger than what we explored in Skyrim. What we are exploring are the parts we did not see in ES5.

I think.

They say this in the prologue and all through the story quests.
It makes sense, since most of what we're seeing could have collapsed by tes5.

Elsonso

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I think the answer they gave is that Blackreach is larger than what we explored in Skyrim. What we are exploring are the parts we did not see in ES5.

I think.

They say this in the prologue and all through the story quests.
It makes sense, since most of what we're seeing could have collapsed by tes5.

Pretty sure that it is still there in TES 5. I think everyone in TES 5 would know if it collapsed.

Sephyr

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

It's like nothing else in the game was mismatched and out of order, yet THIS is the biggest issue there is...

Do you want to hear about all the other issues? I'm sure there are no end of disgruntled players who would like to talk about the lorebreaking changes to, say, Bosmer passives. Or my own pet peeve: numerous inaccessible dwemer ruins in Vvardenfell that I can explore later in TES3.

That would make the thread rather unfocused, but we could.

That's if one assumes that I don't think that there are other issues. I know there are. That's why I was asking, over the blatant and sheer number of ALL the issues--THIS is the worst offender? Thiiiiis? That's why I linked a drinking gif @VaranisArano because at this point, it's a drinking game over the whole "<insert thing> breaks the lore". At this rate, I'll go into liver failure by Sunday.

khajiitNPC

By the divines, this part of Black Reach is called greymoor caverns. It stretches underneath all of Skyrim.

Lintashi

While I do not have major problems with current Blackreach location and looks, I am disappointed. It was supposed to be way down below, yet everyone can just hop in there, like its their backyard(cellar). Svana totally broke any immersion I had in Greymoor, when I found, that this young girl just walked through all of Skyrim's wilderness, wearing just light tunic, breeches and shabby bow, easily found a Great lift, got into Blackreach, waltzed though all of falmer and chaurus without experience in scouting and hiding, got into war camp full of witches, hounds, and vampires, dragged out three unresponsive adults, and noone noticed! Mary Sue with thickest plot armor I ever saw! I really liked before, how Emeric and Arzhela changed into armor, when they had to fight, because this is just logical.

VaranisArano

Sephyr wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

It's like nothing else in the game was mismatched and out of order, yet THIS is the biggest issue there is...

Do you want to hear about all the other issues? I'm sure there are no end of disgruntled players who would like to talk about the lorebreaking changes to, say, Bosmer passives. Or my own pet peeve: numerous inaccessible dwemer ruins in Vvardenfell that I can explore later in TES3.

That would make the thread rather unfocused, but we could.

That's if one assumes that I don't think that there are other issues. I know there are. That's why I was asking, over the blatant and sheer number of ALL the issues--THIS is the worst offender? Thiiiiis? That's why I linked a drinking gif @VaranisArano because at this point, it's a drinking game over the whole "<insert thing> breaks the lore". At this rate, I'll go into liver failure by Sunday.

I guess I'm not seeing the whole "this is the worst offender" thing so much as "this is the issue the OP decided to make a thread about", which OK, we all have different pet peeves.

But whatever, we've all got different priorities and can discuss them if we want.