No CP PvP is a 1 shot frenzy

OBJnoob

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

6k weapon damage is overkill this update for no cp, I’d even say 5k is too, unless you’re doing it to buff your heals.

I mean... your name is BaiterofZergs so I'm going to assume that maybe you like to run 1k less weapon damage than me, a little more sustain, little more tanky, whatever, and that is how you find success 1vXing. That's fair. You certainly wouldn't enjoy playing my character your way.

I'm the other guy though. Because I'm not good enough to X. Or maybe I am but I don't enjoy that playstyle and I don't enjoy losing half the time just to get a hand full of clips (which we all have,) making me look better than I am. That's not me hating on you by the way that's just a random comment directed at most youtubers and stuff.

When I run into you... you or someone else, who can facetank 3 good players while doing reasonable damage, and bump it up to 6 or 10 enemies if you have a rock or a tree nearby? That's why I have 6k weapon damage. Yes to buff my heals. And also to kill people.

I don't know where you play but where I play people have managed to overcome to initial squish-fest. I'm not going to kill any good player with poison injection and double dot poisons (especially not with only 4k WD?) In no-CP cyrodiil I just don't have time to whittle someone down because what I thought was a duel is probably about to get interrupted so instead of Poison Injection and Rending Slashes I just Dizzy Dawnbreak Execute and say goodbye.

FirmamentOfStars

Naturally after a nerf to general healing the classes able to avoid damage to their health bar are the big winners. Sadly this includes three classes, meanwhile the others lost some serious power compared to them.

Avoiding damage is mostly done by being evasive and mobile. Two classes have those things kind as their signature: sorcs and nightblades.

Since cloak is quite bugged, magblades in the end does not even profit from the changes, but stamblades on the other hand alwayw played this evasive hit and run strategy. Additionally they can use the tonal necklace to its full strength and gained the ultimative tool to sustain with that mythic item. Some stamnb even say its all they need to sustain and can fully build for damage or cheese. Since impenetrable was changed, well-fitted rose in strenght and helps being super evasive not taking damage.

The other class already known for mobility is tge sorcerer class. No question that stamsorc got really strong thanks to their superior mobilty with streak/ball of lightning (second one makes even more evasive) and hurricane giving another 10% speed. Another class being able to make perfect use of the tonal necklace and rebalancing their resource pools with dark deal.

Magsorcs on the other hand are also winners in the new patch. Better mobility together with damage shields makes their health bars not move. Damage shields did not see a nerf and the class mostly connected to using it are magsorcs.

Basically hit and run, avoid damage is the new meta and its easy to see what classes can make use of that. Additionally one mythic item solving all your sustain issues or being able to use both resource pools easely to sustain or avoid damage is a strong plus this patch.

I have great respect towards players making classes like magcro, magdk and magplar work this patch.

MurderMostFoul

SavageChain wrote: »

Naturally after a nerf to general healing the classes able to avoid damage to their health bar are the big winners. Sadly this includes three classes, meanwhile the others lost some serious power compared to them.

Avoiding damage is mostly done by being evasive and mobile. Two classes have those things kind as their signature: sorcs and nightblades.

Since cloak is quite bugged, magblades in the end does not even profit from the changes, but stamblades on the other hand alwayw played this evasive hit and run strategy. Additionally they can use the tonal necklace to its full strength and gained the ultimative tool to sustain with that mythic item. Some stamnb even say its all they need to sustain and can fully build for damage or cheese. Since impenetrable was changed, well-fitted rose in strenght and helps being super evasive not taking damage.

The other class already known for mobility is tge sorcerer class. No question that stamsorc got really strong thanks to their superior mobilty with streak/ball of lightning (second one makes even more evasive) and hurricane giving another 10% speed. Another class being able to make perfect use of the tonal necklace and rebalancing their resource pools with dark deal.

Magsorcs on the other hand are also winners in the new patch. Better mobility together with damage shields makes their health bars not move. Damage shields did not see a nerf and the class mostly connected to using it are magsorcs.

Basically hit and run, avoid damage is the new meta and its easy to see what classes can make use of that. Additionally one mythic item solving all your sustain issues or being able to use both resource pools easely to sustain or avoid damage is a strong plus this patch.

I have great respect towards players making classes like magcro, magdk and magplar work this patch.

I've always played mobile stam characters, so I've been able to adapt to these changes without difficulty.

For non-sorc mag characters in noCP, I'm wondering if you are almost forced to be a vampire and run mist form inorder to adequately avoid damage.

Chilly-McFreeze

SavageChain wrote: »

Naturally after a nerf to general healing the classes able to avoid damage to their health bar are the big winners. Sadly this includes three classes, meanwhile the others lost some serious power compared to them.

Avoiding damage is mostly done by being evasive and mobile. Two classes have those things kind as their signature: sorcs and nightblades.

Since cloak is quite bugged, magblades in the end does not even profit from the changes, but stamblades on the other hand alwayw played this evasive hit and run strategy. Additionally they can use the tonal necklace to its full strength and gained the ultimative tool to sustain with that mythic item. Some stamnb even say its all they need to sustain and can fully build for damage or cheese. Since impenetrable was changed, well-fitted rose in strenght and helps being super evasive not taking damage.

The other class already known for mobility is tge sorcerer class. No question that stamsorc got really strong thanks to their superior mobilty with streak/ball of lightning (second one makes even more evasive) and hurricane giving another 10% speed. Another class being able to make perfect use of the tonal necklace and rebalancing their resource pools with dark deal.

Magsorcs on the other hand are also winners in the new patch. Better mobility together with damage shields makes their health bars not move. Damage shields did not see a nerf and the class mostly connected to using it are magsorcs.

Basically hit and run, avoid damage is the new meta and its easy to see what classes can make use of that. Additionally one mythic item solving all your sustain issues or being able to use both resource pools easely to sustain or avoid damage is a strong plus this patch.

I have great respect towards players making classes like magcro, magdk and magplar work this patch.

So far, so good. But don't forget that while some classes can make great use of Tonal, others can buff their mobility via Wild Hunte too. I think the antiquities can have potential to close gaps you have on your classes. Plus the change impen -> well fitted benefits everyone.

katorga

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Naturally after a nerf to general healing the classes able to avoid damage to their health bar are the big winners. Sadly this includes three classes, meanwhile the others lost some serious power compared to them.

Avoiding damage is mostly done by being evasive and mobile. Two classes have those things kind as their signature: sorcs and nightblades.

Since cloak is quite bugged, magblades in the end does not even profit from the changes, but stamblades on the other hand alwayw played this evasive hit and run strategy. Additionally they can use the tonal necklace to its full strength and gained the ultimative tool to sustain with that mythic item. Some stamnb even say its all they need to sustain and can fully build for damage or cheese. Since impenetrable was changed, well-fitted rose in strenght and helps being super evasive not taking damage.

The other class already known for mobility is tge sorcerer class. No question that stamsorc got really strong thanks to their superior mobilty with streak/ball of lightning (second one makes even more evasive) and hurricane giving another 10% speed. Another class being able to make perfect use of the tonal necklace and rebalancing their resource pools with dark deal.

Magsorcs on the other hand are also winners in the new patch. Better mobility together with damage shields makes their health bars not move. Damage shields did not see a nerf and the class mostly connected to using it are magsorcs.

Basically hit and run, avoid damage is the new meta and its easy to see what classes can make use of that. Additionally one mythic item solving all your sustain issues or being able to use both resource pools easely to sustain or avoid damage is a strong plus this patch.

I have great respect towards players making classes like magcro, magdk and magplar work this patch.

I've always played mobile stam characters, so I've been able to adapt to these changes without difficulty.

For non-sorc mag characters in noCP, I'm wondering if you are almost forced to be a vampire and run mist form inorder to adequately avoid damage.

If you can make it not bug out, mistform + torc of constancy on a stam build.

Magcro is painful this patch, I respec'd to bow/2H stam. Ranged, hit and run, lots of defile. Constancy or Wild Hunt. Stage 1 vamp. I'm still magsorc, wild hunt or malacath. Self heals are not cost effective this patch, besides the nerf, it feels like I am constantly defiled.

FirmamentOfStars

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Naturally after a nerf to general healing the classes able to avoid damage to their health bar are the big winners. Sadly this includes three classes, meanwhile the others lost some serious power compared to them.

Avoiding damage is mostly done by being evasive and mobile. Two classes have those things kind as their signature: sorcs and nightblades.

Since cloak is quite bugged, magblades in the end does not even profit from the changes, but stamblades on the other hand alwayw played this evasive hit and run strategy. Additionally they can use the tonal necklace to its full strength and gained the ultimative tool to sustain with that mythic item. Some stamnb even say its all they need to sustain and can fully build for damage or cheese. Since impenetrable was changed, well-fitted rose in strenght and helps being super evasive not taking damage.

The other class already known for mobility is tge sorcerer class. No question that stamsorc got really strong thanks to their superior mobilty with streak/ball of lightning (second one makes even more evasive) and hurricane giving another 10% speed. Another class being able to make perfect use of the tonal necklace and rebalancing their resource pools with dark deal.

Magsorcs on the other hand are also winners in the new patch. Better mobility together with damage shields makes their health bars not move. Damage shields did not see a nerf and the class mostly connected to using it are magsorcs.

Basically hit and run, avoid damage is the new meta and its easy to see what classes can make use of that. Additionally one mythic item solving all your sustain issues or being able to use both resource pools easely to sustain or avoid damage is a strong plus this patch.

I have great respect towards players making classes like magcro, magdk and magplar work this patch.

So far, so good. But don't forget that while some classes can make great use of Tonal, others can buff their mobility via Wild Hunte too. I think the antiquities can have potential to close gaps you have on your classes. Plus the change impen -> well fitted benefits everyone.

Well that is correct, that actually every class could gain mobility via wild hunt and well-fitted, but they are one mythic items behind the classes with inherent mobility.

Also some classes do not work that well with that playstyle at all. For example templars can not cast their spammable into a dodgeroll like other classes.

You can close the gaps, but you are further behind in something else then. Dks make great use if malacaths ring for example, since their dots actually do some damage again. Going for a wild hunt ring would hurt their „identity“.

Rhaegar75

My brief and possibly inaccurate analysis:

1) if they were trying to eliminate unkillable builds the job was only half successful: still plenty of those around

2) as I spent more time dead than alive I tried to increase damage or even go heavy.... most YouTubers seem to have gone that way: not waiting for me really.
I survive a little longer but I seem to just postpone the inevitable ending: constantly dead!

3)i then returned to high damage and I just ended up being more squishy....result: constantly dead!

4) I thought that maybe it was my play style. I shifted from melee to a more hit and run stance and I seem to be able to stand my ground more.
Not really my cup of tea but at least Bannerlords is amusing enough.

Anyone else reached similar conclusions?

Appo

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

My brief and possibly inaccurate analysis:

1) if they were trying to eliminate unkillable builds the job was only half successful: still plenty of those around

2) as I spent more time dead than alive I tried to increase damage or even go heavy.... most YouTubers seem to have gone that way: not waiting for me really.
I survive a little longer but I seem to just postpone the inevitable ending: constantly dead!

3)i then returned to high damage and I just ended up being more squishy....result: constantly dead!

4) I thought that maybe it was my play style. I shifted from melee to a more hit and run stance and I seem to be able to stand my ground more.
Not really my cup of tea but at least Bannerlords is amusing enough.

Anyone else reached similar conclusions?

Exactly this, going heavy or full impen or high resistances/hp recovery makes little to no difference as soon as you are 2v1 situation (high mmr) which we are, this brings me to the conclusion, go hard or go home, hit them hard and fast then get hell outta there 😂

I play stamplar and as metioned i cant use spammable when i roll, i dont have mobility fixed into my kit so i gotta sacrifice something for the mobility just to last a little longer, sorcs, blades, even warden (access to major exp and brutality allows them to run 2h/s+b dw which is deadly in no cp atm due to spin2win) have that already and can utilize the extra headroom for more damage. Its a little frustrating but what can we do?

Chilly-McFreeze

SavageChain wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Naturally after a nerf to general healing the classes able to avoid damage to their health bar are the big winners. Sadly this includes three classes, meanwhile the others lost some serious power compared to them.

Avoiding damage is mostly done by being evasive and mobile. Two classes have those things kind as their signature: sorcs and nightblades.

Since cloak is quite bugged, magblades in the end does not even profit from the changes, but stamblades on the other hand alwayw played this evasive hit and run strategy. Additionally they can use the tonal necklace to its full strength and gained the ultimative tool to sustain with that mythic item. Some stamnb even say its all they need to sustain and can fully build for damage or cheese. Since impenetrable was changed, well-fitted rose in strenght and helps being super evasive not taking damage.

The other class already known for mobility is tge sorcerer class. No question that stamsorc got really strong thanks to their superior mobilty with streak/ball of lightning (second one makes even more evasive) and hurricane giving another 10% speed. Another class being able to make perfect use of the tonal necklace and rebalancing their resource pools with dark deal.

Magsorcs on the other hand are also winners in the new patch. Better mobility together with damage shields makes their health bars not move. Damage shields did not see a nerf and the class mostly connected to using it are magsorcs.

Basically hit and run, avoid damage is the new meta and its easy to see what classes can make use of that. Additionally one mythic item solving all your sustain issues or being able to use both resource pools easely to sustain or avoid damage is a strong plus this patch.

I have great respect towards players making classes like magcro, magdk and magplar work this patch.

So far, so good. But don't forget that while some classes can make great use of Tonal, others can buff their mobility via Wild Hunte too. I think the antiquities can have potential to close gaps you have on your classes. Plus the change impen -> well fitted benefits everyone.

Well that is correct, that actually every class could gain mobility via wild hunt and well-fitted, but they are one mythic items behind the classes with inherent mobility.

Also some classes do not work that well with that playstyle at all. For example templars can not cast their spammable into a dodgeroll like other classes.

You can close the gaps, but you are further behind in something else then. Dks make great use if malacaths ring for example, since their dots actually do some damage again. Going for a wild hunt ring would hurt their „identity“.

Opportunity costs are always there, so much is for sure. It's like that on every classes so it depends on if you want to further maximize X or if you want to minimize a downside. But I can see that some classes have a tougher choice to make than others, like the mentioned DK Or NB/stamSorc with Malacath.. Anyways, I'm eager to see how this all plays out when we get some more of those 1p items.

Joinovikova

UrbanMonk wrote: »

Palidon wrote: »

No Cp is a Nightblades playground. Especially Bow Ganking. Love it.

You say bow ganking? Well I recently turned my magblade focus on these and here is the result...

https://youtu.be/LysGHC77dKU

and magblade will cry how their claass is low...

Joinovikova

Souterain wrote: »

Any pvp experience fundamentally resolves to who has the better internet connection at the moment of encounter - if my skills are delayed then it's game over. Conversely, if yours are worse then enjoy the death recap with 8 seconds worth of my skills hitting you in less than 1 second.

It only gets really interesting when lag/latency/desynchs aren't an issue.

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Dw stam sorcs became a carry class again in no cp. Just too fast and bursty.

not only sorc, stamwarden can also do...

wheem_ESO

Joinovikova wrote: »

UrbanMonk wrote: »

Palidon wrote: »

No Cp is a Nightblades playground. Especially Bow Ganking. Love it.

You say bow ganking? Well I recently turned my magblade focus on these and here is the result...

https://youtu.be/LysGHC77dKU

and magblade will cry how their claass is low...

Not everyone wants to run around Cyrodiil relying on 1-shot ganks in order to be remotely effective. Lets see him play that same build in some of the really "sweaty" BGs.

Ragnarock41

Alomar wrote: »

ESO's never had proper, measured, scaled, and purposeful balancing. It's been huge patches that completely change the meta and make the previous one unplayable. Breaks sets, makes playstyles unplayable, and makes skills/morphs obsolete for years.

Change for the sake of change.

killingspreeb16_ESO

SavageChain wrote: »

Naturally after a nerf to general healing the classes able to avoid damage to their health bar are the big winners. Sadly this includes three classes, meanwhile the others lost some serious power compared to them.

Avoiding damage is mostly done by being evasive and mobile. Two classes have those things kind as their signature: sorcs and nightblades.

Since cloak is quite bugged, magblades in the end does not even profit from the changes, but stamblades on the other hand alwayw played this evasive hit and run strategy. Additionally they can use the tonal necklace to its full strength and gained the ultimative tool to sustain with that mythic item. Some stamnb even say its all they need to sustain and can fully build for damage or cheese. Since impenetrable was changed, well-fitted rose in strenght and helps being super evasive not taking damage.

The other class already known for mobility is tge sorcerer class. No question that stamsorc got really strong thanks to their superior mobilty with streak/ball of lightning (second one makes even more evasive) and hurricane giving another 10% speed. Another class being able to make perfect use of the tonal necklace and rebalancing their resource pools with dark deal.

Magsorcs on the other hand are also winners in the new patch. Better mobility together with damage shields makes their health bars not move. Damage shields did not see a nerf and the class mostly connected to using it are magsorcs.

Basically hit and run, avoid damage is the new meta and its easy to see what classes can make use of that. Additionally one mythic item solving all your sustain issues or being able to use both resource pools easely to sustain or avoid damage is a strong plus this patch.

I have great respect towards players making classes like magcro, magdk and magplar work this patch.

Making work magplar or magdk? They are far better than NB/Stamsorc you "mentioned".

Go play a NB in a good mmr BG then we talk,will see how much you can avoid with aoe,dot,channel and all the undodgeable stuff.

OBJnoob

I’ve definitely seen some good magdks this patch. Mostly doing the grothdar malacath dot thing i assume... never got to see a recap about it

I’ve seen 10 good magplars every day for like 2 years I think. So not impressed. 20% of 10k is more than 20% of 5k (talking about healing power now,) I know that, so you’d think Templar’s kinda got nerfed this patch? Not sure I’ve seen anybody talking specifically about it though.

Cuz these jokers just wave their hand and shoot to full health in one go anyway. Or they used to. Now they only almost do I guess. I mean if the player is good and you don’t just catch him with a beauty then you’re in a real dogfight and either stam or mag you better hope you win the resource war.

Or maybe I just need to get better. I beat plenty of them don’t get me wrong... shuffle and walk through them, got it. Nevertheless it’s a gripe of mine just because there are sooo many and if they start jabbing you in the butt while you were already busy it is a serious problem. For me.

Point of this rant being... did they get nerfed? Or because they were borderline overhealing anyway did they get buffed because now the average ttk is low but they still, frankly, have dope heals.

PhoenixGrey

ThePedge wrote: »

Nightblade has always been a carry class. The only difference is an extremely broken set, which stam blade utilises best, means it now has damage and can delete anyone.

Fixed it for you

Heidenka

Magcro right now is just sad. Can't heal yourself, and don't have any mobility.

I don't even know what to do with my magcro atm to make it work, base impen makes harmony build hit like nothing and healing nerf make impossible to stay alive.

buzzclops

Heidenka wrote: »

Magcro right now is just sad. Can't heal yourself, and don't have any mobility.

I don't even know what to do with my magcro atm to make it work, base impen makes harmony build hit like nothing and healing nerf make impossible to stay alive.

Time to remove the minor defile on our burst heal lmao. It is so dumb.

exeeter702

buzzclops wrote: »

Heidenka wrote: »

Magcro right now is just sad. Can't heal yourself, and don't have any mobility.

I don't even know what to do with my magcro atm to make it work, base impen makes harmony build hit like nothing and healing nerf make impossible to stay alive.

Time to remove the minor defile on our burst heal lmao. It is so dumb.

Meh, there are worse offenders. The burst heal was given the self inflicted minor defile with the 8 percent increased healing done passive as well as the cleanse in mind. The intention that necro healing OTHERS with the strong burst heal becomes more effective. When healing themselves, the minor defile penalty is reduced and still remains a potent self heal that is cheaper than other similar tooltip value heals.

In light the battle spirit having nerf it stings more ofc, but that is a more general grievance that zos did not adjust slightly the few spells/classes that have to trade defensive for heal, namely Nb and necro healers. Magblades especially got shafted when things like swallow soul and siphoning attacks were not adjusted. Those two spells were hardly creating unkillable magblades.

Cathexis

@ZOS_GinaBruno

One of the things that they might consider in rebalancing pvp and in how they do campaigns is perhaps declaring a meta.

That is to say that perhaps they may want to consider
(a) Consolidating campaigns to a minimum (so really just 1 veteran campaign at max level, 1 under 50)
(b) Consider, instead of having a few campaigns with different rulesets, scheduling campaigns with different rule sets and different durations over the year.

Variable changes might include the usuals:
-Durations (1 week, 2 week, 1 month)
-CP, no-CP
-Value structure of point system (so one time resources might be really important, one time it might only get points to get scrolls).. this would dynamically change the PvP setting in Cyrodiil.

And lastly

Battle spirit, which could be used to dictate the meta of each campaign, so maybe campaign (a) is a damage focus, campaign (b) is a damage healing focus, campaign (c) is a tanking focus.. etc etc.


This could do 3 things:
(1) It would concentrate the PvP player base
(2) Allow for more server resources to be allocated to a specific instance of cyrodiil
(3) Help players determine the meta that they should focus on in any given patch change
(4) Allow the development to adjust for the discrepancy between their vision of PvP and skill balance, and how it plays out in the reality.


This might be one way to address the issue a lot of players are having around liking or hating the balance of PvP at any given time, because then there's a guiding principle and theme of how they should focus, for any given campaign.

Just some thoughts

Bergzorn

Cathexis wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

One of the things that they might consider in rebalancing pvp and in how they do campaigns is perhaps declaring a meta.

That is to say that perhaps they may want to consider
(a) Consolidating campaigns to a minimum (so really just 1 veteran campaign at max level, 1 under 50)
(b) Consider, instead of having a few campaigns with different rulesets, scheduling campaigns with different rule sets and different durations over the year.

Variable changes might include the usuals:
-Durations (1 week, 2 week, 1 month)
-CP, no-CP
-Value structure of point system (so one time resources might be really important, one time it might only get points to get scrolls).. this would dynamically change the PvP setting in Cyrodiil.

And lastly

Battle spirit, which could be used to dictate the meta of each campaign, so maybe campaign (a) is a damage focus, campaign (b) is a damage healing focus, campaign (c) is a tanking focus.. etc etc.


This could do 3 things:
(1) It would concentrate the PvP player base
(2) Allow for more server resources to be allocated to a specific instance of cyrodiil
(3) Help players determine the meta that they should focus on in any given patch change
(4) Allow the development to adjust for the discrepancy between their vision of PvP and skill balance, and how it plays out in the reality.


This might be one way to address the issue a lot of players are having around liking or hating the balance of PvP at any given time, because then there's a guiding principle and theme of how they should focus, for any given campaign.

Just some thoughts

Not to be rude, but a big NO to all of these from me.

I'm not against shaking things up, but your ideas go to far and against what this game and playerbase can handle.

mav1234

Cathexis wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

One of the things that they might consider in rebalancing pvp and in how they do campaigns is perhaps declaring a meta.

That is to say that perhaps they may want to consider
(a) Consolidating campaigns to a minimum (so really just 1 veteran campaign at max level, 1 under 50)
(b) Consider, instead of having a few campaigns with different rulesets, scheduling campaigns with different rule sets and different durations over the year.

Variable changes might include the usuals:
-Durations (1 week, 2 week, 1 month)
-CP, no-CP
-Value structure of point system (so one time resources might be really important, one time it might only get points to get scrolls).. this would dynamically change the PvP setting in Cyrodiil.

And lastly

Battle spirit, which could be used to dictate the meta of each campaign, so maybe campaign (a) is a damage focus, campaign (b) is a damage healing focus, campaign (c) is a tanking focus.. etc etc.


This could do 3 things:
(1) It would concentrate the PvP player base
(2) Allow for more server resources to be allocated to a specific instance of cyrodiil
(3) Help players determine the meta that they should focus on in any given patch change
(4) Allow the development to adjust for the discrepancy between their vision of PvP and skill balance, and how it plays out in the reality.


This might be one way to address the issue a lot of players are having around liking or hating the balance of PvP at any given time, because then there's a guiding principle and theme of how they should focus, for any given campaign.

Just some thoughts

Given that the existing more popular campaign is essentially unplayable most of the time, how does collapsing all the alternatives into a single campaign help the largest and most pressing PvP issue - performance?

Karmanorway

Well... It could be worse, you could have been me. Some NB with the character name "ExploitingSnipeDesync" grew a certain affection for me in BGs and IC, you could imagine how fun that was...

11k-12k snipe
Enchantment proc
4k-6k Snipe
Poison proc
- All in one shot nvm, just another l2p issue of mine...

Otiz

They over did it. Now its just as no skill. Full damage spec and random KD because you die from everything.
If you are not a Sorc or NB in no CP then the experience is *** - and I play most classes and main NB..

Cathexis

mav1234 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

One of the things that they might consider in rebalancing pvp and in how they do campaigns is perhaps declaring a meta.

That is to say that perhaps they may want to consider
(a) Consolidating campaigns to a minimum (so really just 1 veteran campaign at max level, 1 under 50)
(b) Consider, instead of having a few campaigns with different rulesets, scheduling campaigns with different rule sets and different durations over the year.

Variable changes might include the usuals:
-Durations (1 week, 2 week, 1 month)
-CP, no-CP
-Value structure of point system (so one time resources might be really important, one time it might only get points to get scrolls).. this would dynamically change the PvP setting in Cyrodiil.

And lastly

Battle spirit, which could be used to dictate the meta of each campaign, so maybe campaign (a) is a damage focus, campaign (b) is a damage healing focus, campaign (c) is a tanking focus.. etc etc.


This could do 3 things:
(1) It would concentrate the PvP player base
(2) Allow for more server resources to be allocated to a specific instance of cyrodiil
(3) Help players determine the meta that they should focus on in any given patch change
(4) Allow the development to adjust for the discrepancy between their vision of PvP and skill balance, and how it plays out in the reality.


This might be one way to address the issue a lot of players are having around liking or hating the balance of PvP at any given time, because then there's a guiding principle and theme of how they should focus, for any given campaign.

Just some thoughts

Given that the existing more popular campaign is essentially unplayable most of the time, how does collapsing all the alternatives into a single campaign help the largest and most pressing PvP issue - performance?

Well I don't really know the structure they use and in one sense you are right, because the most popular server isn't handling the player load at capacity. But in another sense at a hypothetical level if they were running only one instance of cyrodiil instead of two simultaneously, then they could dedicate the resources that run the second server to the first.

Just something to consider, I couldn't say for sure.

Bergzorn wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

One of the things that they might consider in rebalancing pvp and in how they do campaigns is perhaps declaring a meta.

That is to say that perhaps they may want to consider
(a) Consolidating campaigns to a minimum (so really just 1 veteran campaign at max level, 1 under 50)
(b) Consider, instead of having a few campaigns with different rulesets, scheduling campaigns with different rule sets and different durations over the year.

Variable changes might include the usuals:
-Durations (1 week, 2 week, 1 month)
-CP, no-CP
-Value structure of point system (so one time resources might be really important, one time it might only get points to get scrolls).. this would dynamically change the PvP setting in Cyrodiil.

And lastly

Battle spirit, which could be used to dictate the meta of each campaign, so maybe campaign (a) is a damage focus, campaign (b) is a damage healing focus, campaign (c) is a tanking focus.. etc etc.


This could do 3 things:
(1) It would concentrate the PvP player base
(2) Allow for more server resources to be allocated to a specific instance of cyrodiil
(3) Help players determine the meta that they should focus on in any given patch change
(4) Allow the development to adjust for the discrepancy between their vision of PvP and skill balance, and how it plays out in the reality.


This might be one way to address the issue a lot of players are having around liking or hating the balance of PvP at any given time, because then there's a guiding principle and theme of how they should focus, for any given campaign.

Just some thoughts

Not to be rude, but a big NO to all of these from me.

I'm not against shaking things up, but your ideas go to far and against what this game and playerbase can handle.

Things are going to change one way or another though and it seems like the player base won't be able to handle it no matter what. At least they could organize the variability into different sagas, rather than just being the same thing over and over with where the PvE meta continuously breaks PvP and vice versa. Then at least, if there's a bad PvP meta it's restricted to say a 2 week campaign and they can try a new formula, and battlespirit as a blanket mechanism for balance would be more practical, instead of just like an old gross bandaid.

Then they can do things like bring together story themes into PvP. Where for example they could hard slant vampire abilities through battlespirit for the duration of a campaign.

Karmanorway

Otiz wrote: »

They over did it. Now its just as no skill. Full damage spec and random KD because you die from everything.
If you are not a Sorc or NB in no CP then the experience is *** - and I play most classes and main NB..

Ive played both in no cp BGs a lot and i can promise you, NB and stamsorc is the classes that gives me the shittiest experience in BGs. I would pick magsorc/warden/carrymancer/DK/or easyplar any day

Bergzorn

Cathexis wrote: »

Things are going to change one way or another though and it seems like the player base won't be able to handle it no matter what. At least they could organize the variability into different sagas, rather than just being the same thing over and over with where the PvE meta continuously breaks PvP and vice versa. Then at least, if there's a bad PvP meta it's restricted to say a 2 week campaign and they can try a new formula, and battlespirit as a blanket mechanism for balance would be more practical, instead of just like an old gross bandaid.

Then they can do things like bring together story themes into PvP. Where for example they could hard slant vampire abilities through battlespirit for the duration of a campaign.

In principle and general, I like your suggestions. But in practice, as an example, if they would cycle between CP and no CP Cyrodiil, I wouldn't bother to log in during the CP time at all. Shaking the combat up too much every few weeks would just annoy me.

As far as I care, you could change the scoring, maybe now and then cycle the home territory for the factions and stuff like this. But this would need dedication from ZOS' side (not going to happen...), and don't forget that even now, six years in the game, a lot of players don't seem to know basic Cyrodiil rules. Especially the part of the playerbase that cares about scoring and the campaign are the ones that value continuity the most, if I'm not reading it wrong.

Maybe a couple more daedric artefacts could make things interesting, if they weren't such damn zerg beacons...

Cathexis

Bergzorn wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Things are going to change one way or another though and it seems like the player base won't be able to handle it no matter what. At least they could organize the variability into different sagas, rather than just being the same thing over and over with where the PvE meta continuously breaks PvP and vice versa. Then at least, if there's a bad PvP meta it's restricted to say a 2 week campaign and they can try a new formula, and battlespirit as a blanket mechanism for balance would be more practical, instead of just like an old gross bandaid.

Then they can do things like bring together story themes into PvP. Where for example they could hard slant vampire abilities through battlespirit for the duration of a campaign.

In principle and general, I like your suggestions. But in practice, as an example, if they would cycle between CP and no CP Cyrodiil, I wouldn't bother to log in during the CP time at all. Shaking the combat up too much every few weeks would just annoy me.

As far as I care, you could change the scoring, maybe now and then cycle the home territory for the factions and stuff like this. But this would need dedication from ZOS' side (not going to happen...), and don't forget that even now, six years in the game, a lot of players don't seem to know basic Cyrodiil rules. Especially the part of the playerbase that cares about scoring and the campaign are the ones that value continuity the most, if I'm not reading it wrong.

Maybe a couple more daedric artefacts could make things interesting, if they weren't such damn zerg beacons...

Well that's something to think about at the very least, that it would be easily applied to scoring principles, and that perhaps the entering cyrodiil prompt should outline the current campaigns scoring principles.

With regard to shaking up combat, I understand your feelings about it, I think at some level a lot of players feel that way, but by the same token combat WILL inevitably change as a result of balance changes and so then perhaps the issue isn't so much that affecting combat at all is the problem as much as ensuring that combat related adjustments occur at a longer term, more regulated pace. So, say for example you have varied campaigns with varied rules, 7 to 31 day scheduled basis, but the overarching adjustments through battlespirit, cp, and skill changes occur over a longer period.

The issue I see in it though is that the cp vs no cp balance is inherently broken, and so cp vs no cp might also have to balance on a campaign to campaign basis.

katorga

Cathexis wrote: »

Bergzorn wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Things are going to change one way or another though and it seems like the player base won't be able to handle it no matter what. At least they could organize the variability into different sagas, rather than just being the same thing over and over with where the PvE meta continuously breaks PvP and vice versa. Then at least, if there's a bad PvP meta it's restricted to say a 2 week campaign and they can try a new formula, and battlespirit as a blanket mechanism for balance would be more practical, instead of just like an old gross bandaid.

Then they can do things like bring together story themes into PvP. Where for example they could hard slant vampire abilities through battlespirit for the duration of a campaign.

In principle and general, I like your suggestions. But in practice, as an example, if they would cycle between CP and no CP Cyrodiil, I wouldn't bother to log in during the CP time at all. Shaking the combat up too much every few weeks would just annoy me.

As far as I care, you could change the scoring, maybe now and then cycle the home territory for the factions and stuff like this. But this would need dedication from ZOS' side (not going to happen...), and don't forget that even now, six years in the game, a lot of players don't seem to know basic Cyrodiil rules. Especially the part of the playerbase that cares about scoring and the campaign are the ones that value continuity the most, if I'm not reading it wrong.

Maybe a couple more daedric artefacts could make things interesting, if they weren't such damn zerg beacons...

Well that's something to think about at the very least, that it would be easily applied to scoring principles, and that perhaps the entering cyrodiil prompt should outline the current campaigns scoring principles.

With regard to shaking up combat, I understand your feelings about it, I think at some level a lot of players feel that way, but by the same token combat WILL inevitably change as a result of balance changes and so then perhaps the issue isn't so much that affecting combat at all is the problem as much as ensuring that combat related adjustments occur at a longer term, more regulated pace. So, say for example you have varied campaigns with varied rules, 7 to 31 day scheduled basis, but the overarching adjustments through battlespirit, cp, and skill changes occur over a longer period.

The issue I see in it though is that the cp vs no cp balance is inherently broken, and so cp vs no cp might also have to balance on a campaign to campaign basis.

ZOS doesn't do "balance". They do wholesale meta shifts. There is a big difference.

The game is already balanced. CP or noCP, it is an equal playing field. Sets and races are balanced by a formula. Unless you are pushing one facet to an extreme, you can get basically the same stats on a build with any race with minor tweaking. The only area that is not 100% even are skill "kits", some classes lack major pieces of kit. For example, all stam having easy access to a weapon independent HOT and an instant AOE stun, vs some mag classes being stuck with resto staff or using the horrible vampire stun.

Wholesale meta shifts mean some classes/builds thrive and others don't. It is a crap shoot. It is not like this has not happened once to twice a year since release.

Langeston

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

UrbanMonk wrote: »

Palidon wrote: »

No Cp is a Nightblades playground. Especially Bow Ganking. Love it.

You say bow ganking? Well I recently turned my magblade focus on these and here is the result...

https://youtu.be/LysGHC77dKU

and magblade will cry how their claass is low...

Not everyone wants to run around Cyrodiil relying on 1-shot ganks in order to be remotely effective. Lets see him play that same build in some of the really "sweaty" BGs.

Yeah, that build would get ROCKED in high MMR.