what changes would you make to kill the zerg?

Wing

from my perspective of watching ball groups move around and what not, tiny changes I would make that would hurt ball groups but leave most unaffected

things like:

-make rapids cheaper but single target
-make purge cheaper but single target

etc.

as ball groups tend to run dedicated skill spammers. increasing the cost of those skills hurts everyone, but just forcing people to slot and use skills themselves is something solo and small man have dealt with forever, and zergs tend to ignore, because dedicated spammers.

side note, it would be less server load (aoe spam)

what would you do?

as I side note, I feel like more/all aoe's need the scale mechanism of det.

ItsJustHashtag

Make radiating regen stop stacking at 3 per player. Would have zero effect on pve.

Reduce the heal further on cleanse. Would have zero effect on pve as this is not really a pve skill.

Reduce the heal on reviving barrier

Atherakhia

Skill caps in PvP so you cant spam AEs so easily seems like the most impactful change they could make. Like ground targeted AEs limited to 3 targets or something.

Standardizing heal over times would be the next thing I'd do. Just make a generic major and minor heal over time buff that various skills apply. Something like Regen and Vigor would both apply the same major healing buff that provides X over Y and other heal over times were minor buffs etc. So you couldn't stack them.

Another solution to the zerg problem would be to just let us play the game in a stable environment so a zerg could combat a zerg without the serving going into thermo-nuclear shutdown mode.

Kadoin

Revert changes to make healing top priority, above all damage. Also look at some of these proc sets.

I would say single target proc sets and that heal can stay top priority and HoTs, but group proc sets that heal should not.

As long as healing remains top priority, ball groups will always have the advantage no matter how hard they try to nerf tanks. They simply will keep nerfing players that are not balled up and make them food for ballgroups.

It's no surprise this patch has ball groups at their worst. I laughed when my brother told me every single complaint I had and said in the forum about balance panned out on live...

Durham

Drastically reduce ap for group over 12... group size caped.. All AOE healing affect group only... no stacking of the same aoe healing spell. All aoe cost increased..

Wing

its funny how long time pvp'rs are like:

"here are the problems, here are some fixes"

and the devs are like:

"but what is a "problem" really?"

Wing

actually if heal dots were separated into the major minor system this would solve quite a few problems.

for instance stamcro is OP because of the sheer amount of heal dots it has, if things were separated into major minor, and then numbers re balanced accordingly not only would it reduce heal dot spam (and server load)

BUT also make classes that don't have those built in heal dots not nearly as bad, as you would not be able to stack them with things like vigor.

@ZOS_Gilliam

Hymzir

Remove cast time from Inevitable Detonation.

It doesn't do that much damage at the moment, but it does punish people who stack up. It's nice to see dozen or so 4k damage hits light up over a group, and sometimes it even kills someone, when it catches them between HoT ticks. The problem with the skill is that the cast time makes it super hard to land. And with lag, that cast time often becomes 2 or 3 seconds, by which time the lag-ball has already ducked behind a los blocking object, or has simply run far enough to be out of range.

It doesn't help that casting the thing slows you to a snail's pace, while all all competent ball-groups have a permanent speed-IV drip attached as standard.

Take the cast time away, get hit by 3 or 4 of these at the same time, and people will start to rethink about running about as human centipedes.

Just tweak the numbers so that it hits hard against big bunches of players, and to be pretty much useless against solitary targets and groups of 4 or so. I can't say what the numbers should be, since the cast time makes it so frigging useless a the moment, that it is impossible to get meaningful data.

Freeman

Uncap the amount of targets hit by AoE abilities.

VaranisArano

Fix performance.

That won't kill zergs on its own, but it'd sure make it a lot easier for everyone to fight back if their skills actually worked and folks weren't crashing out.

Ranger209

Not necessarily all of the things but here are some ideas:
1. Ultimate immunity - get hit with an ult and immune to all others for 4 seconds. Ulti dumping is a lame tactic to me
2. Change healing done and healing received to healing self and healing others. This way thru battlespirit they could clamp down more on group healing and less on self healing. Self healing -50%, other healing -80%
3. More drastically give battlespirit the vamp treatment. You can only heal yourself. Not a big fan of tank, dps, healer trinity in open world pvp. People should be more self reliant.
4. Remove synergies in battlespirit. Synergies = off.
5. No stacking of buffs or over time effects, instead refresh timers to full.

There, that ought to make everything everyone else comes up with seem tame in comparison.

Gilvoth

if you are closer than 25 foot to another group member your damage received will be Trippled.
all damage you do to other players will be decreased by 50% while in group.
and of-course:
ALL healing in cryodill while in group to be Removed!

if you abide by these simple rules all lagg and high ping will decrease by 90%
in addition people will stop creating these Massive HUGE horrific Zergs.
this will result in actual fun event for all players instead of the Horrible experience we now see when in cryodiil.

Gilvoth

oh and i forgot:
Make all CC's you cast on enemies Disabled while you are in a group.

Vietfox

I'm surprised no one mentioned Major Evasion yet.

kryda

ZOS has already implemented the Zerg killer. It’s called Lag. We think Lag is horrible now, but how many chapters before we get a PvP chapter? How bad do you think lag will be by then?

Daviiid_ESO

fix lag

JayKwellen

Well, personally I don't even care about the zergs and ball groups. Despite the dumpster fire that are the servers right now, Cyrodiil was still made for big groups and sieges. I'd rather ZOS fix their damn game than completely upend the entire purpose PvP was originally built for. And, I know this one is difficult for some people here but, some people just like to zerg. There are tons of people out there who actually like and prefer to roll in large groups, so let them have their fun. And come on, you know there's a certain type of adrenaline you really only get when you're 40v40 defending/assaulting a keep, out there having your own personal Helms Deep moment, when finally someones line breaks and you push the enemy force out.

That said, if you want to tone it down I'd say cutting down on cross-healing would go a big way to doing so. Make it so heals can't stack with multiples of themselves, and further cap the number of people who can be healed by AOE ground heals. So only 1 regen, 1 ritual, 1 warden flower AOE thing, etc. That way you eliminate people spamming radiant regen and ending up with 3-4 regens ticking, while standing in multiple rituals, and basically turning into a raid boss. This would of course have to implemented via battlespirit otherwise it would seriously screw over the PvE community.

That said, it'll never happen. ZOS had the opportunity to work on this issue with Greymoor, but they instead chose the lowest hanging fruit which will do almost nothing for group healing while seriously hampering the healing of solo and small-scale players, and further damaging classes with weak healing options.

Daviiid_ESO

JayKwellen wrote: »

Well, personally I don't even care about the zergs and ball groups. Despite the dumpster fire that are the servers right now, Cyrodiil was still made for big groups and sieges. I'd rather ZOS fix their damn game than completely upend the entire purpose PvP was originally built for. And, I know this one is difficult for some people here but, some people just like to zerg. There are tons of people out there who actually like and prefer to roll in large groups, so let them have their fun. And come on, you know there's a certain type of adrenaline you really only get when you're 40v40 defending/assaulting a keep, out there having your own personal Helms Deep moment, when finally someones line breaks and you push the enemy force out.

That said, if you want to tone it down I'd say cutting down on cross-healing would go a big way to doing so. Make it so heals can't stack with multiples of themselves, and further cap the number of people who can be healed by AOE ground heals. So only 1 regen, 1 ritual, 1 warden flower AOE thing, etc. That way you eliminate people spamming radiant regen and ending up with 3-4 regens ticking, while standing in multiple rituals, and basically turning into a raid boss. This would of course have to implemented via battlespirit otherwise it would seriously screw over the PvE community.

That said, it'll never happen. ZOS had the opportunity to work on this issue with Greymoor, but they instead chose the lowest hanging fruit which will do almost nothing for group healing while seriously hampering the healing of solo and small-scale players, and further damaging classes with weak healing options.

cap max group size to 12, make healing only target your group. Problem solved then. Would spread out the map more as well not have a full faction running as a ball to each keep, increase performance.

Ranger209

People have comms do you really need to be "in a group" to group? Removing the grouping feature from Cyro won't stop people with comms from grouping, but it will make ball zerging more difficult. It will remove group dependent conditions and calculations from Cyro though.

Qbiken

Reduce group size to 12 and make it so you can't receive or heal players outside of your group. Won't prevent stacking multiple 12 groups, but it would be a change in the right direction.

yodased

Revert to siege changes of like 8 patches ago.

Give ground oils back or replace with analogous new item.

Give V.D. type set that puts major vuln and major defile on all group members when a member dies within x meters.

Put long time cast skills (30sec) that can be bashed but do ~30k aoe damage

ItsJustHashtag

Freeman wrote: »

Uncap the amount of targets hit by AoE abilities.

That was done a few years ago

ItsJustHashtag

Ranger209 wrote: »

Not necessarily all of the things but here are some ideas:
1. Ultimate immunity - get hit with an ult and immune to all others for 4 seconds. Ulti dumping is a lame tactic to me
2. Change healing done and healing received to healing self and healing others. This way thru battlespirit they could clamp down more on group healing and less on self healing. Self healing -50%, other healing -80%
3. More drastically give battlespirit the vamp treatment. You can only heal yourself. Not a big fan of tank, dps, healer trinity in open world pvp. People should be more self reliant.
4. Remove synergies in battlespirit. Synergies = off.
5. No stacking of buffs or over time effects, instead refresh timers to full.

There, that ought to make everything everyone else comes up with seem tame in comparison.

Your first suggestion would literally make later her groups stronger

ItsJustHashtag

kryda wrote: »

ZOS has already implemented the Zerg killer. It’s called Lag. We think Lag is horrible now, but how many chapters before we get a PvP chapter? How bad do you think lag will be by then?

Lag effects smaller groups more than larger groups.

Goregrinder

I wouldn't really want to kill zergs, a lot of us enjoy that playstyle and is what sets ESO's PVP apart from other MMORPG's. You can find different types of fights other than zergs in Cyrodil, or you can just BG. The variety is amazing isn't it? Everyone gets something.

TequilaFire

Make 1vX harder or remove small scale.
See, how would you like your play style removed?

vestahls

Why is zerging bad again? Isn't it, like, intended?

One of the most disappointing things about Cyro, when I was first trying it out, was that it was advertised as a "war" but there was no organisation between combatants and everyone was just supposed to go on their merry way... Shouldn't groups be engaging with each other more rather than less in a WAR?

idk

Wing wrote: »

-make purge cheaper but single target

So stamina based players now have to change to hybrid players? That seems to be the goal with this one suggestion.

I would also suggest the overall suggestion made in the OP is trying to eliminate all group play for solo play in a PvP environment designed and intended for group play. An organized small group will have someone designated to have a cleans and someone dedicated to running rapids. They are organized.

Qbiken wrote: »

Reduce group size to 12 and make it so you can't receive or heal players outside of your group. Won't prevent stacking multiple 12 groups, but it would be a change in the right direction.

I would also suggest this is detrimental. Cyrodiil is AvAvA. Besides when I run solo on a mag character I have a heal and this idea suggests I can no longer use that heal to support alliance mates. It also removes the focus on alliance and makes Cyrodiil more about me.

StamPlar_1976

How about don't change anything? Cyrodiil is about group PvP. If you want to solo and 1vX, go to battlegrounds. Leave my group PvP alone. I like ball grouping and zergs.

Tammany

StamPlar_1976 wrote: »

How about don't change anything? Cyrodiil is about group PvP. If you want to solo and 1vX, go to battlegrounds. Leave my group PvP alone. I like ball grouping and zergs.

Implying cleanse and aoe spam is a group pvp ayy

TequilaFire

Tammany wrote: »

StamPlar_1976 wrote: »

How about don't change anything? Cyrodiil is about group PvP. If you want to solo and 1vX, go to battlegrounds. Leave my group PvP alone. I like ball grouping and zergs.

Implying cleanse and aoe spam is a group pvp ayy

Of course it is, it is called group support no different than PvE.