Crown store: Does the packrat pet's extra 5 bag slots stack with the pet boar's 5 bag slots ?🐀

Jaimeh

It's ridiculous that after years of having a tonne of new furnishings, sets, etc., added to the game, they haven't increased the inventory slots from the pack merchant. The introduction of these new carrier pets probably means they won't, and we'll have to go the CS route if we want extra bag space. The pack rat is very cute, but I wish they had given us options to expand inventory via in-game means, and not have to go to the CS for a measly 5 extra slots.

Mindcr0w

Blacknight841 wrote: »

If the same thing was applied to speed for a horse, where someone can ride 5% faster than the rest of the people in Cyrodiil (assuming they don't disconnect in the process)... would you consider that pay to win. This is the same thing.

That is not even remotely the same thing. Being able to get around a pvp map faster could in fact result in more "winning" and would be p2w.

As long as an injection of actual cash is required to obtain something, it is pay to win. Doesn't matter who buys it.

You are stretching the definition of p2w to the point of agony. A thing being available only through purchase isn't p2w if it isn't helping you win at something.

Luvtantius_Micocia

Can we still get a bagpack rat pet, or did the people that miss out on them and will have 5 slots less forever?

max_only

Luvtantius_Micocia wrote: »

Can we still get a bagpack rat pet, or did the people that miss out on them and will have 5 slots less forever?

I haven’t seen it yet. I’ve been looking.
Edit:
June 11th.

Blacknight841

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Blacknight841 wrote: »

If the same thing was applied to speed for a horse, where someone can ride 5% faster than the rest of the people in Cyrodiil (assuming they don't disconnect in the process)... would you consider that pay to win. This is the same thing.

That is not even remotely the same thing. Being able to get around a pvp map faster could in fact result in more "winning" and would be p2w.

As long as an injection of actual cash is required to obtain something, it is pay to win. Doesn't matter who buys it.

You are stretching the definition of p2w to the point of agony. A thing being available only through purchase isn't p2w if it isn't helping you win at something.

A player carrying an extra 10 cold fire ballistas can make a difference, and 10 players carrying an extra 100 siege equipment can make even more of a difference. Just because you view inventory as nonessential doesn't mean it is worthless to others.

When the game introduced 2000+ furnishing items with homestead but didn't raise the inventory they forced the players to decide on what items they want to keep and what to sell or destroy. You cannot deconstruct furnishings, and there have been no increases in furnishing cap in houses. With every week they introduce new furnishings to the luxury vendor, over a year that is another 52 inventory spots. Currently there are 2069 craftable furnishings, 450+ achievement furnishings, 400+ home goods items, 300+ luxury vendor items, 1200+ crown store exclusive purchasable items, 750+ crown pack items, and 40 crown crate exclusive furnishing items, brining the total well over 4000 unique furnishign items. When there are no increases for furnishings caps in houses, no increases in inventory through the game, someone who is into housing or trading is forced to either sell, trash their items, buy a new house to store their items like a junkyard, or buy the crown exclusive pets with inventory space. It is not stretching the definition, it s exactly paying to win something, which in this case is the ability to store 180 more of the items you may want to keep.

A player who is limited on inventory may chose that they don't need the windmill furnishing item, because they have nowhere to put it. A few months go buy and they decide that they do in fact need the item to build a new house project. Now they are forced to buy it from someone that did have the inventory space to buy extras of that item... for 300% of the original price. The person with more inventory is in fact, winning, compared to the person who is down 200k.

The only way to increase player inventory in the past 3 years has been through paying for it with crowns. That is pay to win.

Mindcr0w

So now we're stretching the definition of paying to win to include how tricked out you can make your house, which gives you absolutely no in game advantage, with optional and purely cosmetic items, which also give you no in game advantage?

It is definitely paying to solve a problem ZOS has themselves created. I'll agree to that. But it isn't paying to win.

Finedaible

Ah, so it begins... Chopping the game up into bits and pieces and gradually selling it to players over time... Brilliant. I'm reminded of this at these times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTMe5p_eTZg

Blacknight841

Mindcr0w wrote: »

So now we're stretching the definition of paying to win to include how tricked out you can make your house, which gives you absolutely no in game advantage, with optional and purely cosmetic items, which also give you no in game advantage?

It is definitely paying to solve a problem ZOS has themselves created. I'll agree to that. But it isn't paying to win.

I would definitely consider being able to carry more things an in game advantage. You can store more alts, you can carry a full second set of gear with you at all times, you can pick up more loot in a dungeon for those that are limited on inventory already. When there are thousands of items in the game, every slot counts. Bottom line is, just because you don't need the storage space, doesn't mean it isn't pay to win. Not everyone plays this game for pvp. If you have something in the game that form which you gain anything that others don't, it is an advantage not matter how small it may be, and if you have to pay cash for it... it is pay to win.

Blacknight841

Blacknight841 wrote: »

Mindcr0w wrote: »

So now we're stretching the definition of paying to win to include how tricked out you can make your house, which gives you absolutely no in game advantage, with optional and purely cosmetic items, which also give you no in game advantage?

It is definitely paying to solve a problem ZOS has themselves created. I'll agree to that. But it isn't paying to win.

I would definitely consider being able to carry more things an in game advantage. You can store more alts, you can carry a full second set of gear with you at all times, you can pick up more loot in a dungeon for those that are limited on inventory already. When there are thousands of items in the game, every slot counts. Bottom line is, just because you don't need the storage space, doesn't mean it isn't pay to win. Not everyone plays this game for pvp. If you have something in the game that form which you gain anything that others don't, it is an advantage not matter how small it may be, and if you have to pay cash for it... it is pay to win.

Bottom line is that back in 2015 when ESO Plus was implemented and the subscription model was scrapped, Firor stated that eso is not trying to become a play to win game, and that the items in the game will available through gameplay. No advantage would be gained from the ESO Plus store and that it will offer cosmetic alternatives. This however is not the reality we live in today. Ever since the implementation of the crown store, and ESO Plus, this game has been pushing the boundaries of what it can and will offer in the crown store as a pay to win alternative. It went from simply potions and soul gems, to bonus inventory spots with the purchase of pets. They stated that they will not exchange crown for gold... but with the crown gifting, they did just that. Now you can even gain an advantage in the game trading system by selling your crowns to pay for your trader. This game IS 100% PAY TO WIN for those that want it.

Blacknight841

This is just one of the things that they walked back on over the years. They announced that there will be improvements to guilds, but 4 years after the announcement, still nothing. ESO Plus used to cover 4 quarterly expansions, but now it only covers 3 dlcs, and you have to pay 40$ to upgrade to the next chapter. Two years ago you got new furnishing plans with the chapter and then again with the mini zone dlc, last year you only got new plans with the chapter. Two Years ago they designed two different environments last year they designed one environment and split the zone. All in all every aspect of the game since 2015 has been a culmination of how much less content can we deliver for the same price, and how can we integrate it to the crown store (motifs). Even when they tried to put a motif into the crown crates people were upset, so what did they do, they instead created style pages... so that they can put those into the crown crates instead, then they added furniture to the crown crates. If you do not see the degradation of quality, it is simply because you chose not to see it. No matter how much I love this game, the lack of support, the constant and consistently failed improvements, and the simple unwillingness of the developers to enforce their terms of service has resulted in nothing but disappointments for most veteran players... but then again, the sad truth is that this is the plan from zenimax all along. The sooner that they can drive away the older players, the sooner people stop complaining, and the more they can sell to the new players to catch up in the game, before they realize the harsh reality of the state of play. It is unfathomable that zenimax cannot deal with the people who buy and sell gold via bots, and the bots in general, over a 6 YEAR stretch, while a game like call of duty can wrangle the cheaters in a single week. It is not a question of ability, it is a question of will, and it is clear that they do not care about the quality of experience in the game, unless it directly effects their profits. A great example is how the rosters took 3 months for them to fix in the game, and even after a fix was implemented on the pts with greymoor, they still waited another 6 weeks to push the fix out. Meanwhile the second that there is an issue with the crown store, the game is pulled offline, or they pull the item until they can fix it. This is the single company that went from an interview in 2015, where they said " we listened to our community" to a company that cannot rename a single duplicate furnishing item after 4 straight years, despite repeated tickets.

CassandraGemini

max_only wrote: »

I’d buy several of these rats. And you’d be right, I’d be winning; because I’d be surrounded by rats. 🐀

So much this. When I first saw the little guy in the Crown Store showcase I knew right away I had to have him, didn't even see that he had the same effect as the boar at first and don't really care much about it now that I do know. He's just super cute. And I second the notion that pet rats need to live longer. I will name mine after my first rat (Zack) as well.

volkeswagon

if they can sell pets to increase inventory space then they can simply flat out increase inventory space for free for everyone

max_only

volkeswagon wrote: »

if they can sell pets to increase inventory space then they can simply flat out increase inventory space for free for everyone

Both is good. We’re long over due for a set increase across the board. Isn’t the max bank slots a weird number like 480? Just round it up

Nomadic_Atmoran

huntgod_ESO wrote: »

I hate that these exist but I bought the other one and will buy this one as well.

Yeah this is bs. Theyre going to continue doing this when they want to see certain metrics. Adding something they know the playerbase wants to it so they feel even more pressure to purchase.

Starlock

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

huntgod_ESO wrote: »

I hate that these exist but I bought the other one and will buy this one as well.

Yeah this is bs. Theyre going to continue doing this when they want to see certain metrics. Adding something they know the playerbase wants to it so they feel even more pressure to purchase.

Pretty much. But what’s worse is people buying them anyway. Some player hates they exist, and supports their existence by buying it anyway? Seriously?

Stop.

Just stop.

There are better, stronger words to be had on this, but, well, the corporatocracy enjoys silencing such things, apparently. Perhaps if the cash shop stopped being so exploitative such words wouldn’t be necessary in the first place, huh?

SydneyGrey

doomette wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

doomette wrote: »

I would get this even without the inventory upgrade. Because it’s a rat with a freaking backpack and I’ve wanted one since I saw the one in Arteum *shrugs*

Yes. 🐀

I shall name mine Bu, after my first pet rat

Mine were named Pandora and T.........
Holy crikey, I've forgotten what the other rat's name was. In any case, the pack rat is a must-have for me. I just think it's ridiculously cute.
I guess they'll eventually release the pack donkey as well.

SOLDIER_1stClass

Personally, I do not see the Crown Store as pay to win.

I just find it annoying that majority of mounts, pets, outfits have to purchased with no way to earn them in game.

Keledus

Blacknight841 wrote: »

It is definitely pay to win. There is no other way to acquire it unless you pay. You get extra carrying capacity that only those that bought the pets get. You are not increasing your inventory to the max available in the game by speeding up the process, but instead you are suppressing the max in game inventory. The max in the game is 200, while those that buy both of the pets have 5% more inventory. This is the definition pay to win. It may not change much in the game, but it is still pay to win.

If the same thing was applied to speed for a horse, where someone can ride 5% faster than the rest of the people in Cyrodiil (assuming they don't disconnect in the process)... would you consider that pay to win. This is the same thing.

As long as an injection of actual cash is required to obtain something, it is pay to win. Doesn't matter who buys it.

Yet you're quite wrong, you can literally get gold and exchange it for the pet. Sure it wont be cheap but you still can..
Someone else is paying crowns for it to gift it to you in exchange for gold so technically everyone can get it aslong as someone wants to exchange it.

YandereGirlfriend

What is the Pack Rat?

xXMeowMeowXx

I will name mine ‘Nom Noms’ when performance gets better....cha ching. Till then, no more💰from moi

🧀 🐀

Vevvev

As long as these two pets remain on the store forever and crown store gifting remains a thing having the pet be there is fine. The moment they take one of these pets off though there will be problems.

The pet is cute though and if I get him I'd name him Skitters.

tim99

max_only wrote: »

because I’d be surrounded by rats. 🐀

you already passed that step by creating a forum account

santhoranb16_ESO

I'll buy that pack-rat cause its actually a pet worth having. Not cause of the inventory, but of the design alone. Its just great.

Inventory otherwise is never p2w no matter how many consecutive posts some try to make here. You'll never win with the Inventory. Even with 10.000 slots it wont win you the trial hard modes or beat up the other players in cyro. You can win however with 200 or less slots exactly the same. You'll just have maybe to manage your inventory more or better - which can be an major inconvenience. Which brings up the point what it is. Convenient service.

Blacknight841

Keledus wrote: »

Blacknight841 wrote: »

It is definitely pay to win. There is no other way to acquire it unless you pay. You get extra carrying capacity that only those that bought the pets get. You are not increasing your inventory to the max available in the game by speeding up the process, but instead you are suppressing the max in game inventory. The max in the game is 200, while those that buy both of the pets have 5% more inventory. This is the definition pay to win. It may not change much in the game, but it is still pay to win.

If the same thing was applied to speed for a horse, where someone can ride 5% faster than the rest of the people in Cyrodiil (assuming they don't disconnect in the process)... would you consider that pay to win. This is the same thing.

As long as an injection of actual cash is required to obtain something, it is pay to win. Doesn't matter who buys it.

Yet you're quite wrong, you can literally get gold and exchange it for the pet. Sure it wont be cheap but you still can..
Someone else is paying crowns for it to gift it to you in exchange for gold so technically everyone can get it aslong as someone wants to exchange it.

In that scenario, not only did you pay to win, so did the person who gifted the item you. The person who gifted the item to you wanted gold, so they are paying to get gold, and you wanted the extra space, so you paid to get that. The only difference is that two people "won" in this situation, instead of just one.

Just because you use a gift card from your grandmother to buy a video game, that doesn't mean the game didn't cost cash at some point. If you exchanged mowing your grandmothers lawn to get the gift card, your grandmother still had to pay for the game, and profited in the form of a cut lawn. The bottom line is that the game was paid for in cash, doesn't matter how it happened, it still happened.

Sergykid

@Blacknight841 maybe in the future they will add a "furniture bag" just like the crafting bag, for "Premium ESO+" or such

virtus753 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

Lintashi wrote: »

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Inb4 people start going on rants about how extra bag space is p2w.

The line between p2w and not p2w is thin, and sometimes subjective. My personal opinion, that everything, that could provide any amount of convenience, but cannot be acquired by ingame means, is p2w. Since there is no way I could get 205 slots, no matter how much time I spend ingame playing, and since even 5 slots can be of need, if you finish all pledges in a row, rat is mild p2w.

pets can be bought with ingame gold, so no p2w here. I would call the mythic items p2w, there's the power that your only choice is real money.

Since mythic items only replace other gear and don’t have their own slot, I would say they’re as p2w as BoP gear locked behind DLC (Lokkestiiz, Relequen, False God’s, etc.). If that fits your definition of p2w, then all of that is p2w; if it doesn’t, none of it is

these items are stronger for the amount of item slots they occupy than rest of the sets. And you can benefit from the mythic item together with two 5pc sets and a 2pc sets. Wear the mythic item, head shoulders monster, rest of the body with a weapon the main bar set, jewels and backbar weapon a backbar set that you can proc and have its benefits on the main bar

Starlock wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

Lintashi wrote: »

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Inb4 people start going on rants about how extra bag space is p2w.

The line between p2w and not p2w is thin, and sometimes subjective. My personal opinion, that everything, that could provide any amount of convenience, but cannot be acquired by ingame means, is p2w. Since there is no way I could get 205 slots, no matter how much time I spend ingame playing, and since even 5 slots can be of need, if you finish all pledges in a row, rat is mild p2w.

pets can be bought with ingame gold....

Really? Where? What NPC in the game sells pets?

Off other players.

@heaven13 already articulated this point well - that's not buying pets with in-game gold; crowns are still required in the transaction. You can't get these pets without you or someone else being suckered into the cash shop.

I'll add to their remark that ESO also has no built-in marketplace for players to exchange crowns-and-gold with other players safely and risk free. Which is, quite frankly, unacceptable for a game of this stature. I and many other players will not participate in such exchanges unless the developer does their job and makes it safe and secure for both parties.

When we can actually buy pets for in-game gold that'll be a step in the right direction for this game. It certainly would make this rubbish of cash shop exclusive inventory expansions less disgusting.

there is totally safe and risk free through a certain discord server. There's another that it's almost risk free, but i use the latter and never had problems with it (and transactioned millions). And yes crowns are paid, but not by you. Your own ingame gold gets out in exchange for something in the crown store, you don't pay any real money. You don't care for the means, you achieve your goal of buying crown stuff with gold only.

Blacknight841

Sergykid wrote: »

@Blacknight841 maybe in the future they will add a "furniture bag" just like the crafting bag, for "Premium ESO+" or such

Lol ironic since I have made this suggestion before. You cannot just add 4000 items to the game and expect the already limited space to be enough.

Mr_Walker

Blacknight841 wrote: »

A player carrying an extra 10 cold fire ballistas can make a difference, and 10 players carrying an extra 100 siege equipment can make even more of a difference.

If you need 100 siege you need to tell some other folk they need to buy some siege.

Mr_Walker

volkeswagon wrote: »

if they can sell pets to increase inventory space then they can simply flat out increase inventory space for free for everyone

Not for free, but it would make for an excellent in game gold sink.

Per character, that's a lot of gold disappearing from the game.

Sergykid

Mr_Walker wrote: »

volkeswagon wrote: »

if they can sell pets to increase inventory space then they can simply flat out increase inventory space for free for everyone

Not for free, but it would make for an excellent in game gold sink.

Per character, that's a lot of gold disappearing from the game.

the rich will remain rich while the poor will become poorer.

Ri_Khan

It's real cute they're nickel-and-diming their players for inventory space now. So classy!