Dungeon lead drop rate bugged?

Anotherone773

We do know your not suppose to burn through a chapter worth of content in a month right? That is why it feels so grindy. People are trying to do months worth of content in a couple of weeks.

thorwyn

honestly? dungeon/world boss leads should be guaranteed IMO.

Way too much hassle. Just unlock everything after successfully logging into the game.

MasterSpatula

That's RNG for you. Even if the drop rate's 50/50, there's nothing at all stopping you from flipping a coin tails ten times in a row. Or a hundred.

Which is why anyone who deserves a job in game design would never use straight RNG with no mitigating factors.

mareeelb16_ESO

Been running Elden Hollow 1 normal for days now trying to get my last gold lead for the Wild Hunt ring. Nothing. Boyfriend joined me for a few runs to help.. he dropped it first run even though he hasn't got anywhere near levelling his antiquities skills to be able to use it.

I still keep trying... but it's getting very very boring and something that started out being fun (the antiquities system) is rapidly becoming a major chore to the point that I could just find something better to do with my time. That can't possibly be good game design - for players or for ZOS?!

Please heed all the voices calling for an improvement to your rng mechanics.

Zephiran23

6 kills to get the drop from Aldunz. Another player was already there and took about the same number of kills.

I'm not convinced people camping delve bosses is a positive move for the game.

Dungeon boss drops - there's already a lack of healers and tanks willing to sign up through group finder. So, if you can't solo the dungeon you need, then it's definitely a year long addition to the game.

Guyle

Anotherone773 wrote: »

We do know your not suppose to burn through a chapter worth of content in a month right? That is why it feels so grindy. People are trying to do months worth of content in a couple of weeks.

What are you talking about? This isnt new content we are grinding, its old content, that ppl spend hours grinding, to get one lead for a piece of new gear. Its not, ohh I got my new mythic items, Greymoor is over, its I am spending so much time grinding old content for some items I want, I haven't even started the first Greymoor storyline quest.

Blue_Radium

While there's no way to confirm, it does seem like the further you progress in collecting items the harder the subsequent drops get. Which would really suck if true. If figured out/confirmed, it'd mean the best practice would be to rush the hardest to get drops first and intentionally avoid content that provides the other drops.

The more pieces I get of a mythic or the mount/the higher my antiquities skill levels get, the longer it's consistently taken to get further leads. Could be related to antiquities levels, which would mean the best practice is to only lead collect and not complete any leads until you have them all. Total leads acquired causing further leads to have a lower drop rate would create this same perception. Or it could just be bad luck. But the very large and consistent disparity between people who get leads in 1 or 2 tries and people who get the same ones in 25+ tries suggests otherwise. If the drop rate is actually 50%, or even 10%-25%, then the vocal group having bad luck would be a much smaller minority.

Mr_Walker

Austinseph1 wrote: »

It's just rng

It probably is, sure, but given how many bugs there are right now, I wouldn't honestly dismiss external factors at play.

Blue_Radium

Also worth noting - just did 15 Darkshade II normal runs, in groups. Run 10 found a solid group that was able to do clears in about 5 minutes and we stuck together. On the last run all four of us got the ebon wolf lead at the same time. Either very weird coincidence or something going on there.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

MasterSpatula wrote: »

...
Which is why anyone who deserves a job in game design would never use straight RNG with no mitigating factors.

So very much this, but with a caveat. It's far from easy to do for a game as large and complex as ESO, and there are other factors than skill coming into play.

It would require a lot of bookkeeping on the server to keep track of every random drop from every source for every player and make sure all items drop with a reasonable frequency. It's not enough to make them drop once, because people will need to farm for items they didn't need before and discarded for lack of storage space. With the current state of the database backend, without going into details, I really don't think the game servers could handle it.

If both the servers and the programmers were up to it, a way of solving it would be to gradually increase the chances with each unsuccessful attempt, preferably taken all the way to giving you a guaranteed drop on the Nth dungeon run, where N would be somewhere considerably beyond the expected ("average") number of runs with a straight RNG system, but also significantly short of the silly numbers we are seeing for outliers. With a flat 1/10 drop chance, the expected number of runs before players get the drop would be 10, and I think setting a hard limit at 20 runs would be reasonable in that case.

But I'm dreaming here. The server would have to keep track of the number of unsuccessful attempts for all drops in the game, and getting one drop (any drop, from any source), or not getting anything at all from a potential drop source, would require an update to all entries for any possible drops from that same source. It's a system that would be very prone to breaking.

Hans_58

notyuu wrote: »

Update: 17 1/2 hours later I got the lead

considering that it took ~150 runs

all I've got to say is that I am not looking fowards to trying to get the lead from volen..or DS2

It seems to be that you SHALL get your money's worth and not get anything to quickly.
So in about 5 or 7 years I will get my dwarven wolf

Hans_58

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

It only took 3 or 4 runs for each normal dungeon for me to get my leads. I had to sit at the Brass Hatchling for a good while though.

The Brass Hatchling respawns after a few minutes so I got that with just waiting there in 3 runs. But Volenfell or DS1 DS2 dont respawn so you have run the whole dungeon again and again and again tedious.

sudaki_eso

My advice, dont do one activity for hours, do it a couple of times and if you dont get a lead move on and come back tomorrow.

MasterSpatula

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

...
Which is why anyone who deserves a job in game design would never use straight RNG with no mitigating factors.

So very much this, but with a caveat. It's far from easy to do for a game as large and complex as ESO, and there are other factors than skill coming into play.

It would require a lot of bookkeeping on the server to keep track of every random drop from every source for every player and make sure all items drop with a reasonable frequency. It's not enough to make them drop once, because people will need to farm for items they didn't need before and discarded for lack of storage space. With the current state of the database backend, without going into details, I really don't think the game servers could handle it.

If both the servers and the programmers were up to it, a way of solving it would be to gradually increase the chances with each unsuccessful attempt, preferably taken all the way to giving you a guaranteed drop on the Nth dungeon run, where N would be somewhere considerably beyond the expected ("average") number of runs with a straight RNG system, but also significantly short of the silly numbers we are seeing for outliers. With a flat 1/10 drop chance, the expected number of runs before players get the drop would be 10, and I think setting a hard limit at 20 runs would be reasonable in that case.

But I'm dreaming here. The server would have to keep track of the number of unsuccessful attempts for all drops in the game, and getting one drop (any drop, from any source), or not getting anything at all from a potential drop source, would require an update to all entries for any possible drops from that same source. It's a system that would be very prone to breaking.

The drop rate is already variable. It drops to 0% when you already have the lead. If the game has to track that; it can track if you've killed the boss recently.

I'm not necessarily saying if you kill a boss once and come back a couple of days later the drop rate should still be higher (Though I'm not convinced that's such a big problem. There aren't that many leads to track.), but certainly if you're farming it, the drop rate should increase with every failure until it reaches a point where it becomes a near-certainty.

AOECAPS

It’s just pure rng took me like 6 runs in Elden Hollow to get lead ran volenfell like 25 times and then darkshade 1 and 2 about 3 times each

Arictheana

I'm on 30+ runs of EH1. I stopped counting. Really starting to get pissed though.

ImmortalCX

They are turning us into gamblers. First you gamble your time with free stuff. Later you gamble your money for crates.

I collected all the furniture antiquities.. and I don't even like furniture. Just because there was a little bit of excitement in finding something rare.

Now my house is full of random shiny things.

Arictheana

4 hours later and still nothing. Such [snip]

[edited for profanity bypass]

dhboy123

DrScott59 wrote: »

I tracked the (17) lead drops I got for the "Ebon Dwarven Wolf".

Crafting Station Drops (2 of these)
These aren't RNG, you just walk up and take them -- though one requires completing the Fighter's Guild quests that give you access to the area.

Mob Locations (kill random monster for drop)
Mzulft... 1 kill
Bthzark... approximately 35 kills (I lost count here, lots of dwarven constructs killed in little time)

Delve Bosses
Inner Sea Armature.... 10 kills to get drop.
Klathzgar.... 3 kills to get drop.
Aldunz... 2 kills to get drop.
Avanchzel... 4 kills to get drop.

Group Delve Bosses (Craglorn)
Mtharnaz... 2 kills to get drop.
Rkhardahrk... 2 kills to get drop.
Rkundzelft... 2 kills to get drop.

Group Dungeons
Razak's Wheel... 4 kills to get drop.
Nchuthnkarst... 1 kill to get drop.

World Bosses
Zenmarek's Hollow... 1 kill to get drop.

Group Dungeons (last boss)
Darkshade Caverns1... 1 kill to get drop.
Darkshade Caverns-2 2 kills to get drop.
Volenfell... 1 kill to get drop.

Among the delves and dungeons, the two outliers were Inner Sea Armature (10 kills) and Eldon Hollow (12 kills). All the other delves/dungeons were roughly a 50% drop rate for me, usually getting it in 1-2 tries.

Inner Sea Armature

killed this boss 23 times no lead yet.

Really see no point in this much RNG.

Starhorse

Not true: killed Mtharnaz delve brass hatchling 6 times and nothing, no groups to do this with and had to solo it, this sucked big time, never got it and died several times trying to kill it until I just gave up. Went back the next day killed it 2 more times and finally got it. This was difficult because it's not easy finding groups and this is a group delve. That's the one thing I hate about Craglorn is that it requires groups and it's a huge hassle trying to get a group together to do this content, wish they fix this so people can solo.

Hapexamendios

We did 8 different dungeons once each with a four man group. We got 4, 3, 2 and 0 leads respectively. RNG is all over the place as expected.

MJallday

Roguewolf66 wrote: »

I have farmed over 50 Thieve's Troves for the last part of the music box and still no lead. This is beyond ridiculous.

This dropped for me after about 200
I spent 3 days on it

It’s very cool though

Wuselmann

This game just needs bad luck protection. I mean they already lack newly published content compared to other MMo´s given the time it takes. But those implementations of grind requiring elements is just plain lazy programming. It is solely meant to increase time playing and that not even in a funny/decent way just plain grinding.

Bucky_13

stefj68 wrote: »

i think for dungeon leads, drop rate should be double for veteran and triple for hard mode...
took me average 12-15 dungeon runs per leads i tried to farm...
with queue taking hours for dpser its really really frustrating!
thats my 2 cents

also having to pvp to get some leads for some mythic item s...
u can't get tranmuste crystal from doing pve contents
but u can't get some leads if you are not doing pvp
their should be an alternative for those with a lower drop rates
not everyone enjoy pvping...

And some of us like housing and pvp but hate dungeons. Not everyone enjoy group pveing...

AlnilamE

Starhorse wrote: »

Not true: killed Mtharnaz delve brass hatchling 6 times and nothing, no groups to do this with and had to solo it, this sucked big time, never got it and died several times trying to kill it until I just gave up. Went back the next day killed it 2 more times and finally got it. This was difficult because it's not easy finding groups and this is a group delve. That's the one thing I hate about Craglorn is that it requires groups and it's a huge hassle trying to get a group together to do this content, wish they fix this so people can solo.

Craglorn has been nerfed to the ground and you only need one other person to clear a delve, not a full group.

And you obviously were able to solo it (as did my guildie who didn't realize it was a group delve).

I still need the lead from one of the Craglorn delves, and the one from Volenfell.

phileunderx2

Delves and overland have been bad for me drop wise. Only one delleve for the wolf mount gave me the lead quickly. A coue I spent over an hour farming the boss. And the mythic lead on Betnik island took over 6 hrs to get.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

MasterSpatula wrote: »

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

...
Which is why anyone who deserves a job in game design would never use straight RNG with no mitigating factors.

So very much this, but with a caveat. It's far from easy to do for a game as large and complex as ESO, and there are other factors than skill coming into play.

It would require a lot of bookkeeping... [snip]

The drop rate is already variable. It drops to 0% when you already have the lead. If the game has to track that; it can track if you've killed the boss recently.

I'm not necessarily saying if you kill a boss once and come back a couple of days later the drop rate should still be higher (Though I'm not convinced that's such a big problem. There aren't that many leads to track.), but certainly if you're farming it, the drop rate should increase with every failure until it reaches a point where it becomes a near-certainty.

No, keeping track of which drops you already have (which is a simple yes/no check in the inventory or in the leads journal) and keeping track of how many times you have failed getting a drop (which requires keeping track of an itemized count for each drop from each source where you want this variable chance to apply) are two very different things, and it would be significantly more complicated to implement it. I did think this through, and I stand by my comment.

I would love to see the straight RNG being replaced. I honestly don't think we will see it happen, but I would be very happy to be proven wrong.

Ashagin

I think the drop chance should improve for every attempt. Its wouldnt even be hard for eso to implement. A half dozen r so attempts should be enough to guarantee a drop considering the items are bound and it's part of an expansion. No need to discourage players any more than necessary. Mythic items arent even special except for a few like thrassion strangler, snow traders or the ring that grants 25% more damage at the expense of crit and that may do more harm than good on many builds.

terrordactyl1971

9 runs of Volenfell and still no mount part. Starting to be sick of the place

ccfeeling

35 sp1 run still no lead, dev create this amazing game and I cant complain or I get warning again