[POLL]: Do you like the new Vampire sub-class?

zvavi

No, but the old Vampire needed some additional tweaking.

I feel like it is too much of a gimmick.
The melee damage ability is only stronger than psijic if your health falls down (the mag version is literally weaker unless you fall below 50%), which is inconsistent in real combat, especially when u have healer healing u all the time. So in the end, it is more of a sustain gain, that you need to slot together with another spammable ability that you can use when there is incoming damage...

I truly believe that the melee spammable needs to be reworked to be stronger than psijic, and scale up less strongly with lost health.

All the others abilities are meh and not worth slotting/using in PvE (maybe mistfirm for weird tanking?) So the drawbacks are not worth it.

On the PvP side idk I don't PvP.

Edit: and worst is, the damage doesn't even scale up with your vamp level. Lame vamp that doesn't become stronger if he feeds.

TheImperfect

Other, please provide a response below...

Too early to tell. Only put her skillpoints in but haven't tried her yet.

OK I have edited because I just tried her out.
Seems fun to play, I tried to replace the skills I had with similar types of skills, heal for the heal etc. I noticed in larger groups of monsters she seemed greatly weakened and health could plummet fast but there is a skill to use to counter it, the life drain one. I have only tried a delve so far. I'm going to try public dungeon next. I also don't have everything morphed etc because I don't have enough skill points yet.
The only skill I am finding quite scary is blood frenzy because I could swear the health drop increases faster the lower her health. I haven't morphed it yet though and I have been managing to use it mostly, I want to train it up but there have been deaths. Without blood frenzy she works very effectively. I can see it could be a useful skill though.
I read that feeding always kills rather than the stun you could previously do and it bothered me a little at first before I thought it through. I tested it to see and yes it kills. I have to be more selective of my targets now in a RP sense which is probably better and I think the new fountain when it's released will be OK for well behaved vampires that don't kill. I also feel the channel heal skill although only 3 seconds, feels a lot longer.

T08145

Yes, but some serious tweaking is still needed.

The only problem I have is the complete lack of any sunlight mechanics. The health recovery reduction should only apply when you character is in sunlight and they heal normally in the shade at night, this would be lore appropriate, make stage 4 significantly less unplayable, and basically make everything perfect.

Although I kind of also wish vampire lord was less of a copy paste of bone goliath, and was more like werewolf with it's own moveset like a teleport and a corpse-based summon and other things from skyrim's DLC and was a toggle like warden's pet instead of a normal ult. Obviously the bat morph would need to be nerfed/changed, but perfected scion is currently underwhelming af but if you could have it up all the time (though not in town or you get attacked by guards) it would be pretty cool

Do devs actually read these forums? Is there anywhere we can put feedback/suggestions somewhere they will be noticed by anyone more important then an unpaid moderator?

Banana

Other, please provide a response below...

The vampire population needed a cull

Thannazzar

Other, please provide a response below...

The good:
- New feed animations are great
- the new powers themselves are varied and useful.
- The Passives make you actually commit to being a vampire.

The Bad:
- A lack of Stamina morphs makes the vampire only really viable for magicka classes.
- the absence of some animations really limits the experience ; ie turning into a cloud of bats for wayshrine/teleport/moiunted/mist form or sprint.
- the old drain animation had more vampire flavor.

The Ugly:
- Blood Scion model is appalling, aesthetically anyway. Not sure if it works mechanically as I don't have the urge to ever slot the ability. An alternate ult that provides the same abilities but has no transformation for example just makes the characters eyes grow red and gives them wing stubs would have been far preferable.

Glurin

Yes, it is a lot better than the old Vampire.

Haven't used it much yet, but it is already leagues better than the old version. I'll probably find some things that could use some tweaking, but for the most part I'm satisfied with it.

SydneyGrey

Yes, it is a lot better than the old Vampire.

I like it, but I never played a vampire for the passives, anyway.

Eifleber

Other, please provide a response below...

I don't care at all, not interested in playing vampires.

Vevvev

No, but the old Vampire needed some additional tweaking.

Just tried a stage 4 vampire in Battlegrounds with Sated Fury, Invigorating Drain, Stupify, Arterial Burst, Burning Embers, and Swarming Scion on my front bar with Elusive Mist, Volatile Armor, Coagulating Blood, Degeneration, Rapid Regeneration, and Reviving Barrier on my back bar. Sets were Zaans, Spell Strategist, and Law of Julianos. I never got a chance to use vampire in a team based PVP environment before till now. ((Dueled a lot on the PTS))

I died a LOT before I finally got a hang of things and exploited the stage 4 passive to the fullest. The ability to run into a crowd and pop the ultimate before they can realize what is happening was a game changer, but the other abilities I found lacking. Arterial Burst is only effective when you're injured which is why I took Sated Fury with me, but if I became the target of someone I dropped incredibly fast. The ultimate acted like a reset button and gave me an edge but honestly it didn't feel all that great. The perception change due to the Scion's height was a bit silly and I hated just how ugly the form was, but the ability to set up traps because I could see through walls was a massive tactical advantage.

Stupify didn't help me much if at all but the few times I did land it helped just a little bit. The 53% snare at the end helped my team make quick work of our enemies while I invisibility sprinted back into a cloak. If there is one thing the devs did pull off is that vampires are incredibly elusive and hard to catch if they're smart. Its a shame they're not good at front line fighting all that well, and the abilities that would make them good front line fighters cost 12% more, which was very noticeable.

Results:

KingShocker

No, but the old Vampire needed some additional tweaking.

Man, I have spent so much on a couple of classes I'd thought would make good vamps and I'm having hardcore buyers remorse.

The costs of playing the class are so high and for what? skills that are no better than any other skill in the game? (they are at least unique and interesting, I'll give them that). but you take 3 extreme negative effects for some skill line cost reduction. and the cost reduction is little better than the weapon skill line cost reduction. The blood scion is a copy of bone colossus with a few minor stat differences and an extremely higher base cost. when at stage four the cost is about equal when it should be less. There are the passives but I would trade them all to not have any negative effects in a heartbeat.

it was advertised that we gained power at a cost but it feels like we didn't gain anything for a cost.

can we get a ReVampVamp?

ZaroktheImmortal

I'm glad we have an entire skill line but some things are kind of meh. The extra cost to non vamp abilities I don't really like and from looking on forums some aren't happy with the new skills I haven't properly tried them out yet though myself. Also seems to focus on magika dps while healer toons and stamina players won't fit it forcing those players due to the extra cost to non abilities to put up with extra cost or not play vampires any more since they literally can't rely on the skill line for their role.

Narvuntien

Yes, but some serious tweaking is still needed.

I mean I basically never used the old vampire for anything other than passives... now I use... one abilitiy and one passive... Improvement??

I was one of the many that wrote out detailed critiques about the vampire changes and why there weren't up to par. I mean as a melee magicka subclass they are just not a thing in PVE. They seem PVP focused but in PVP the negatives are reallly really big.

St_Anger

No, but the old Vampire needed some additional tweaking.

Because Vamp -other than WW- leaves you with negative consequences even at vamp stage 0, vampire is (in PvE) only usefull in very specific builds. The old Vamp didn't really change much to the gameplay, so a rework was needed, but it at least gave trade-off bonuses. Now there is literally no reason to run vamp if you are not going to use vamp skills, and for PvE I don't really see a good reason to run any vamp skills. I have healed my main from vampirism and will do so with my other vamp chars as well.

TwiceBornStar

Yes, it is a lot better than the old Vampire.

All the people here who are now curing their characters of Vampirism didn't really want to play a Vampire to begin with. They just wanted to enhance their existing class. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not really a good reason to turn into a Vampire, is it? With this patch, at least the Vampire plays like a class on its own, so now it's more about a conscious decision wether or not you actually want to become a totally different creature. The only reason to turn into a Vampire should be because you want to become one. Not because it boosts your Magicka Recovery.

No offense!

Noxavian

No, but the old Vampire needed some additional tweaking.

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

All the people here who are now curing their characters of Vampirism didn't really want to play a Vampire to begin with. They just wanted to enhance their existing class. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not really a good reason to turn into a Vampire, is it? With this patch, at least the Vampire plays like a class on its own, so now it's more about a conscious decision wether or not you actually want to become a totally different creature. The only reason to turn into a Vampire should be because you want to become one. Not because it boosts your Magicka Recovery.

No offense!

Literally almost every single person on this thread is talking about the design of subclass being the issue.

I have no idea where people keep getting the main thing people dislike about the rework is the removal of the recovery.... Like what? All of the complaints for the most I've been seeing have been from people that WANT to play as a vampire and have it be a viable play style that isn't taken just for passives.

TheKingofSass

No, but the old Vampire needed some additional tweaking.

I actually had just two vamps, cause, shocker, not for the recovery passive. More character story wise and that I did loved the old vamp ult and the sneak passives.

However, I did cured my main cause I hate melee playstyle with magblade, but kept my magplar a vamp, for now cause I'm still playing around with it and since I play melee style with magplar anyway.

But yes, the skill line needed some rework but what we have gotten is still pretty lack luster, and IMO bad executed with poor visualization and though process. It's pretty hilarious that I have seen people create better animations, visuals and rework for mods and and free, while these people are.. professionals and YET....

Anyway.. With some tweaks vamps could have been great... but who knows, maybe in the future? We shall see.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Yes, it is a lot better than the old Vampire.

This new one does need some tweaks but it is more fun to play then the old one, the old version was boring as hell, now I go around draining NPCs, vanishing into thin-air before slicing them with evicirate before vanishing into mist.

Could not do that on the old system, my character is a mageblade and by using vampire abilities he is quite a bit stronger then he was before.

TwiceBornStar

Yes, it is a lot better than the old Vampire.

Noxavian wrote: »

Literally almost every single person on this thread is talking about the design of subclass being the issue.

Read closer.

Noxavian

No, but the old Vampire needed some additional tweaking.

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Literally almost every single person on this thread is talking about the design of subclass being the issue.

Read closer.

Ditto.

Ildun

Love most of it, but I hope dev can tweak a bit following 3 points

1) -100% health recovery is a bit troublesome, maybe change it to -90%~-95%
2) I still think cannot talk to npc is a bit harsh, at least let us talk to those who provide "functions"
3) I think Perfect Scion should rework, maybe instead of no drawback, make it able to teleport/blink

fierackas

No, but the old Vampire needed some additional tweaking.

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

All the people here who are now curing their characters of Vampirism didn't really want to play a Vampire to begin with. They just wanted to enhance their existing class. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not really a good reason to turn into a Vampire, is it? With this patch, at least the Vampire plays like a class on its own, so now it's more about a conscious decision wether or not you actually want to become a totally different creature. The only reason to turn into a Vampire should be because you want to become one. Not because it boosts your Magicka Recovery.

No offense!

Rubbish, the rework offers nothing to stamina players and just weakens them. I would love to play as a vampire - perhaps you could post up a good Stam Warden vampire build.

Michae

Yes, but some serious tweaking is still needed.

I always kept my vampire on stage one since I didn't care that much about passives. I liked that I had to feed from time to time, it was great for rp. I only popped to stage 4 when I really felt I need the passives. I wish I still had to feed to maintain stage 1. Right now stage 4 is fun for certain situations but I don't see people staying on it permanently like before. The -100% health regen is harsh but fun, I would just see it as a debuff to balance player getting more powerful in other aspects. So I'd keep the feeding the way it was before, so that you have to feed to stay on stage 1,2 and 3 and don't have to to stay on stage 4. That way it would be another fun gameplay element, so that when you forget to feed you lose health regen and have to adapt to that situation.

In the current model it would be fun if you "lost" the stage for using vampire abilities, like before, so the more you use it, the more you have to feed.

Other things, well, I could use a third bar to swap to vampire abilities quickly.

EDIT:
Another thing is that my vampire is a stamblade. So without changing to magicka I can't really use vampire abilities to the fullest. I wish there at least wasn't a cost increase to using non-vamp abilities on stage 1. As I said, I have my vampire mostly for rp, I don't want to cure her for build reasons.

RipperoniZossoni

No, but the old Vampire needed some additional tweaking.

I Say no, because it seems to me that there is 2 much negatives than possitives, new skill line isnt that good as I exepted but the worst thing is that vampire is only for magika class now, Stamina cant get any benefits from it now. Before they introduce the patch I was hoping that I made my stamblade vamp/assasino but now I Just went to the Rift and cure my vamparis...

soulferin

No, but the old Vampire needed some additional tweaking.

As many others I was really exited to have some changes. I've always played a vampire in elder scrolls game so naturally my main stamina toon was vampire in online. It was ok before for casual quests I was able to play with mist and bats as ulti, for some real pve I could reach stage 2 and have some recovery at least. That was fine. Now I want to play as vampire but I can do quests dealing none dmg at all if I decide to use dmg abilities from vampire skill line or use it for passives (wait zos doesn't want that...), but passives means also that I can't play real pve like trials because I will be burden for healers and have worst sustain ever. oh wait I can change my char idea completely after 4 years that's great idea!

That's pure logic.

Glurin

Yes, it is a lot better than the old Vampire.

Ok, I think something needs cleared up a little bit here. Taking vampire for the passives being a problem was only really a problem because it was literally just a regen boost. It didn't really make any significant impact on gameplay, so there wasn't really anything vampiric about it. It may as well have been the sock slot on your gear, for all the importance it held, with only one pair of socks in the game.

The new passives, on the other hand, actually do something. Extra damage coming out of stealth, invisibility when running, requiring you to feed in order to maintain it, etc. So taking vampire for the passives now is fine because they are what make you a vampire.

ScardyFox

It needed updating, but as implied the damage is done and more than likely irreparable. They lazied out on it hard, in particular with the ultimate. Making it a reskinned necromancer ultimate was a spit in the eye - nevermind a how lazy its design is. It really should have been implemented how werewolf with a timer, refueled by bodies where you suck out the blood instead of eating a corpse like a werewolf or some such.

I dunno, theres no real point in prattling on about it, its just another example of taking the path of least resistance on their part.

Another missed opportunity to make something special instead of mundane.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Other, please provide a response below...

Never liked playing vampires at all.

technohic

Other, please provide a response below...

After running with a friend using whatever ability it is that drains their health and you cannot heal them; I would like to change from indifferent to wishing I could even kill ally vampires. I was really concerned that "smart" heals would try to go to that target and luckily that does not seem the case but I am not a dedicated healer. It was purely selfish on that but did annoy me to see friendlies low and try to send them a heal only to waste magick.

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun

No, but the old Vampire needed some additional tweaking.

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

All the people here who are now curing their characters of Vampirism didn't really want to play a Vampire to begin with.

Don't tell us what we wanted. Especially when we're taking the time to spell it out in plain English.

Ever since the Blood Scion was revealed one of the biggest complaints about it has been, "it's just a reskinned Bone Goliath" , i.e. it's a passive stat boost that offers nothing interesting mechanically. Again, one of the main complaints is that it doesn't feel any different than playing a regular character. No unique animations, no unique spells. Not a full-on transformation like the Werewolf. Just a model swap and a temporary stat boost.

Committing to being a vampire isn't what we take issue with.

RouDantes

No, but the old Vampire needed some additional tweaking.

I do not understand the removal of resource and health regen. Vampires are supposed to be difficult to kill, with unnatural stamina and magic abilities. I understand it is a disease in TES, but the whole point of vampirism is to PROLONG life unnaturally by draining it from others.

Not only is there no longer any need to feed, there are lethal incentives NOT to feed... Now you have to drain your own health in order to use your powers and are constantly severely injured... half-dead, always seconds away from being completely dead AND unable the heal yourself. That's like the -opposite- of un-dead... Vampirism no longer grants you eternal life through a state of perpetual undeath, it's now just a crippling, terminal autoimmune disease that makes you hyper violent (briefly) before inevitably killing you. Like super-rabies, but with a fear of fire instead of water.

Undead are supposed to be HARD to kill, clinging to life long after they should have died, coming back again and again, perpetually regenerating themselves. I understand weaknesses to things like fire, but now they have a severe weakness to their own powers, and can kill themselves while standing still just by activating a suicide toggle. Was /playdead not enough? Why not just add a /killself command?

Throwing away your own life is like the OPPOSITE of what vampirism should be. Vampire abilities should REFILL your life, NOT drain it. It's insane to me that this made it into the final game. Sacrificing your own blood for power is blood magic, not vampirism.

Vampires are supernatural parasites - creatures that refuse to die by sadistically feeding on others for unnatural regenerative powers. These "vampires" are just masochistic kamikaze lunatics that give up their body's natural ability to regenerate and replacing it with... the magic power to cripple yourself with mortal wounds in order to run fast and do more damage... benefits that aren't much good when you're constantly dying and standing around as a ghost, waiting to respawn all the time.

These new regen drawbacks are antithetical to the entire concept of vampirism and completely break the game for me, with how many of my characters were vampires.

The fact that vampirism looks cooler now is just adding insult to injury... and fatal injury, at that, because it is literally suicide.

Undead? More like Superdead, AMIRIGHT?
/headdesk