Kyne's Aegis Sets Feedback Ignored?

skinnycheeks

Please read this ZOS.

I'm so incredibly disappointed that you decided to leave these sets the way they were. There was overwhelming feedback throughout the community that these were not good sets to drop from 12 man trial content. I saw many great suggestions that would have worked much better in place of these.

Why do you feel that these sets belong in this content? It'd be great to at least get some communication from you on it.

• The stamina dps set is a pvp set with minor slayer.
• The magicka dps set is really a support set...but even if you DID want to run it on a DPS, only 1 can run it at a time because the buff doesn't stack. (hint: if only 1 person can run it, it's probably a support set)
• The healer set provides too little of each resource to be useful (outside of maybe hybrid builds or tanks?)
• The tank set at least has niche uses now with the buff. You adjusted it. Thank you.

I just want to know why...Why was our feedback ignored? It would be nice to at least get some communication from you guys on why you think you are right and that the community is wrong. Instead it looks like you guys are trying to force some unknown vision on us, some idea of a wanted playstyle that doesn't coincide with what is happening in 90% of the game. You want to promote heavy attacks...fine, we get that. This isn't doing that. We've given feedback. You've ignored it.

People are losing faith that you guys understand the game or will at least listen to those that do.

Just some communication would be amazing. Please.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_Gilliam
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_RobGarrett
@ZOS_RichLambert

Calypso589

Seconded.

I don't understand what's going on or what the mindset is over there.

Roaring Opportunist is SO weird right now.

You removed the Off Balance requirement but then saddled the user with a DPS threshold that literally requires Off-balance to max out.

These sets are full of little oddities like that.

Some honesty from the devs would be nice because it's fairly clear that these sets were designed with the assumption that the community would like the proposed HA/LA changes.

What is this vision?

Players, Class reps............we all wanna know.

FakeFox

A entire last PTS week with no changes, really disappointing. I just hope we aren't getting some massive untested changes next week.

Marcus_Thracius

ALL feedback is ignored !

Marteene

We would love to hear from you guys, it's been a very quiet test cycle. Understandably, the off cycle PTS incited a bit of panic but we'd love to see continuing dialogue between developers and players. This game is something many of use love and have devoted thousands of hours to pursuing and enjoying, it really feels bad when changes are made or proposed and communication doesn't easily flow both ways.

We know this is a labor of love from you guys, please let us hear from you. Give us your thoughts and let us see some of the vision that's guiding you. It would go a long way to smoothing over some of the confusion and disappointment many players are feeling right now.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_Gilliam
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_RobGarrett
@ZOS_RichLambert

WrathOfInnos

Agree completely. I’d say it’s actually a little worse than being completely ignored though.

Roaring Opportunist in 6.0.0 was superior to its current form. It wasn’t great, but I’d take it over the new version. Players gave the feedback that it was a support set (and had to be paired with Jorvulds for good uptimes), not a DPS set, and that the proc condition was too convoluted (cooldown, timing with off-balance, and heavy attack). The response was to make the set even less usable on a DPS build by adding additional conditions of building for high heavy attack damage (96k really?). This limited its use to a Dragonknight with Molten Armaments, and eliminated the option of using it with a Lightning Staff (which most heavy attack builds prefer, but it only counts the last tick). It no longer combined well with Bloodthirsty jewelry or various other sets (for good buff uptime, need all sets to increase heavy attack dmg, so no Elf Bane, Damage proc monster sets, etc). It still effectively required timing with off-balance to utilize the increased Heavy Attack damage, and still had a 22s cooldown. Literally took the player feedback and ran the opposite direction

RO needs to be viable without Jorvulds, which means allow high enough uptime using just the set (possibly on 2-3 DD’s) that the 40% increase isn’t necessary. The cooldown implementation is currently preventing this. RO could also provide a unique buff outside the Major/Minor system, in which case Jorvulds would not affect it, and it wouldn’t kill off previous Major Slayer sets.

I haven’t been tracking the Stamina DPS set as closely, but my understanding is that it was initially (6.0.0) perceived as a regen set that was too weak for PVE, and potentially strong for PVP. Players requested that it be buffed to be competitive with other damage PVE sets. The response was to first nerf the magnitude of the bonuses provided, than nerf it again so the set could not be run on a single bar. It’s likely not useful in PVP at this point, but for the PVE side the feedback was again not only ignored, but resulted in changes opposite of the request. Correct me if I’m wrong here.

The change to the tank set was good, but as a low-uptime defensive set I doubt it will be used much. And the healer set may as well not exist, it’s effectively Eye of Nahviintaas 2.0 (a hybrid resource set that does nothing well enough to compete with all the single resource support sets).

Please address these valid concerns. This PTS cycle has been lacking in communication.

skinnycheeks

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I haven’t been tracking the Stamina DPS set as closely, but my understanding is that it was initially (6.0.0) perceived as a regen set that was too weak for PVE, and potentially strong for PVP. Players requested that it be buffed to be competitive with other damage PVE sets. The response was to first nerf the magnitude of the bonuses provided, than nerf it again so the set could not be run on a single bar. It’s likely not useful in PVP at this point, but for the PVE side the feedback was again not only ignored, but resulted in changes opposite of the request. Correct me if I’m wrong here.

No, you're spot on with that one. They took a set that would probably not be used much in pve (though it could have been interesting for those that do enjoy heavy attack builds) and made it even worse. The damage is worse than hundings, assuming it is paired with another slayer set. And if it is for heavy attack builds, why all the regen? You don't need regen in heavy attack setups.

@ZOS_SarahHecker You seem to be active on here. If you could get any of the devs to look at this post/thread and communicate, that would be lovely.

frozzzen101

It's most likely so they can bleed engame pve community and content creators much like they did with pvp so we can all shut our traps, give no further feedback and they can have their sandbox to play with, no criticism or interruptions allowed /tinfoilhat

But it's really bleh feeling I get from this pts cycle. Ultimately there is nothing in this expansion that can further power up my characters. Sets that are trial reward are trash and only avenue for improving characters comes from mobile minigame that I have no interest to participate in, and in order to make those *would be* rewards attractive to progression-minded people they nerfed almost all 2 piece sets that we currently use. Sunspire is/was huge hit when it went live because it had lots of useful sets for people to power up their characters and even years old Cloudrest is run on daily basis.
Once novelty wears off I don't think we will get much zone groups for KA trial which makes me think that the intended idea behind this expansion's itemization really is the mythics grind, and trial sets be damned. It's the only logical line of reasoning I can come up with

Zalathorm

Discords and trial guilds were sustained for months due to some really good sets being dropped in Sunspire.

I wonder what things will look like in 2 months after everyone has their single clear goals met in vKA.

Not having any good sets to farm is going to have a large impact on the raiding community.

kojou

My guess is we need to get our clears early with this trial.

With Sunspire it was easy to make groups to run it since the sets were desirable. With this one it will be like VHoF in a few months. There will be some progression groups working on achievements but likely very few impromptu runs.

Then they will wonder why the completion rate is so low and nerf the fights...

Olauron

You are judging the HA set without knowing their plans on heavy attacks. No wonder the feedback is ignored.

Sanguinor2

Olauron wrote: »

You are judging the HA set without knowing their plans on heavy attacks. No wonder the feedback is ignored.

We know their plan for heavy attacks for the Greymoor update: Said plan is Nothing. No changes.

Now what?

Olauron

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

You are judging the HA set without knowing their plans on heavy attacks. No wonder the feedback is ignored.

We know their plan for heavy attacks for the Greymoor update: Said plan is Nothing. No changes.

Now what?

You should look for Update 27 to get the whole picture. Definitely they will not completely change sets just because the first iteration of HA changes is cancelled.

The_Auror

Olauron wrote: »

You are judging the HA set without knowing their plans on heavy attacks. No wonder the feedback is ignored.

Yeah because it makes more sense to release sets that are unusable in the game's current state with zero communication about any future "plans".

The whole point of this thread asking them to tell us what these "plans" may be

These sets would still be awful even if the LA/HA changes went through.

Sanguinor2

Olauron wrote: »

You should look for Update 27 to get the whole picture. Definitely they will not completely change sets just because the first iteration of HA changes is cancelled.

Ok so the plan is to release a seriously borked set because there might or might not be something in a future update that might or might not make it useful. Awful lot of "mights" in here.

Olauron

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

You should look for Update 27 to get the whole picture. Definitely they will not completely change sets just because the first iteration of HA changes is cancelled.

Ok so the plan is to release a seriously borked set because there might or might not be something in a future update that might or might not make it useful. Awful lot of "mights" in here.

Well, if I were a betting person, I'd say it's a 'might'. If it is a 'might not', we will likely get more Icehearts.

Dagoth_Rac

I don't think they cancelled the LA/HA changes due to player feedback. I think they cancelled it because of the pandemic. They are likely not firing on all cylinders at this time and needed to focus all efforts on getting the content out. LA/HA changes could wait. But they still have every intention of pushing the LA/HA changes to live as soon as practical.

With that said, the new sets are built around the LA/HA changes. They would really have to completely redesign sets to make them viable for the current game. And they probably deemed a complete redesign of the sets not worth the time when it is likely that redesigned sets will be obsolete in 3 months and they have to revert or start over.

tl;dr = sets are so incredibly bad that getting them viable for this meta was just too time consuming in the current working situation.

Deloth_Vyrr

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

I don't think they cancelled the LA/HA changes due to player feedback. I think they cancelled it because of the pandemic. They are likely not firing on all cylinders at this time and needed to focus all efforts on getting the content out. LA/HA changes could wait. But they still have every intention of pushing the LA/HA changes to live as soon as practical.

With that said, the new sets are built around the LA/HA changes. They would really have to completely redesign sets to make them viable for the current game. And they probably deemed a complete redesign of the sets not worth the time when it is likely that redesigned sets will be obsolete in 3 months and they have to revert or start over.

tl;dr = sets are so incredibly bad that getting them viable for this meta was just too time consuming in the current working situation.

Even if this is true, there are still problems with the sets that remain problems even if the LA/HA changes go through at some point. Take Roaring Opportunist, in its current for it completely nerfs itself when used with a Lightning Staff vs a Fire Staff for no good reason. If ZOS is hell bent on shipping the set as-is, then the 5pc needed to at least be fixed to factor in the entire Lightning HA and not just the final tick. But even this feedback was completely ignored.

Calypso589

@Dagoth_Rac tl;dr = sets are so incredibly bad that getting them viable for this meta was just too time consuming in the current working situation.

One way we might know things like that is if they like.........talked to us.

That'd be nice.

Some sort of acknowledgement that this will not be the final form the sets take but that current working conditions are making it difficult to push those things through during the PTS cycle and that we might have to wait till live.

Something like that.

COMMUNICATION IS GOOD EVEN IF THE SITUATION IS BAD.

Eleandor

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

I don't think they cancelled the LA/HA changes due to player feedback. I think they cancelled it because of the pandemic. They are likely not firing on all cylinders at this time and needed to focus all efforts on getting the content out. LA/HA changes could wait. But they still have every intention of pushing the LA/HA changes to live as soon as practical.

With that said, the new sets are built around the LA/HA changes. They would really have to completely redesign sets to make them viable for the current game. And they probably deemed a complete redesign of the sets not worth the time when it is likely that redesigned sets will be obsolete in 3 months and they have to revert or start over.

tl;dr = sets are so incredibly bad that getting them viable for this meta was just too time consuming in the current working situation.

and either alternative is bad tbh. Either they ignore player feedback and will implement the LA/HA changes that no one wants and make a set that is super bad now just really bad or they don't ignore the feedback and do not implement the changes but then introduce a set that is and will always be super bad. Aside the point that they try to push a vision on us that no one understands.

Tannus15

Honestly I just think they were too busy getting the content out the door to spend time redesigning and testing the trial sets.

Look at the state of antiquities when PTS launched. It was barely functional.

Overland was done.
Kynes needed adjusting.
Antiquities was a framework.

The priority of reworking all the trial sets that technically are functional would be super low.

Sanguinor2

Honestly, all they had to do was scrap their idea and replace it with mag lokke/tzogvin/AY/rele and everyone wouldve been happy. Shame they didnt just do that.

YandereGirlfriend

Redesigning these sets would NOT be a big deal.

Any random intern could brainstorm a better set design (pro tip: if they really WERE crunched for time, simply institute Magicka Tzogvin!) in an afternoon and any junior programmer could code the set in an hour after that. This is not rocket science.

Sadly, I do think that the consensus is correct and that they will simply dunk down the HA/LA changes against the will of players at some time in the future.

Vaoh

I feel worst about the players who extensively tested content on Greymoor’s PTS, gave valuable feedback to the Devs, and then realized that all feedback was trashed.

Just the way it is unfortunately. They think everything is fine the way it is.

Ratzkifal

It's not only the feedback on Kynes Aegis. They ignored ALL of the feedback that was given, except for that on the vampire sustain which they listened to somewhat.

What they wanted to achieve:

• equalize arena weapon sets (presumably to make them more desireable)

What they actually achieved:
The good:

• dual wield looks more viable again in PvP
• there is a solid alternative to the vMA bow with clear benefits and drawbacks to it

The bad:

• ruined the only magicka staff being used other than vMA and was only viable on niche builds - yet not even there the apex of possible damage per second
• made the community needlessly furious over having to regrind vMA and vDSA for the new and "improved" weapons
• all the weapons used on back bars see significantly less use in their new perfected boni, making them all quite unequal especially in the power gap between normal and perfected versions

I think it is official at this point. Our combat lead revoked the right to call us "gang".

Foxic

Honestly reading these threads just makes me sad. I feel bad for anyone that tries to give in depth feedback just to be totally ignored.

kind_hero

Looks like someone up in their team is quite stubborn and set in their ways, otherwise I don't understand why this attitude towards their community and feedback given in general, not only trials/combat, etc. There is only to gain by listening or at least explaining what you want to do. But they have more players than servers can handle, so on the other hand they lose nothing.

I'm glad that I have my Sunspire set (FG), most likely the most rewarding set in terms of gameplay/fun, so I don't care much about the new sets, only am sad to see the same attitude towards given feedback.

Olauron

Ratzkifal wrote: »

It's not only the feedback on Kynes Aegis. They ignored ALL of the feedback that was given, except for that on the vampire sustain which they listened to somewhat.

That's not actually true. There was a lot of feedback on antiquities that resulted in immediate changes in the next PTS iteration. They are not listening to everything, but they are listening to things that do not contradict their design decisions.

Glantir

Have you used the ingame Feedback function? I dont think that the devs read much in the forums.

AgaTheGreat

Everyone is wasting their time with feedback. They will still do what they want.

Firstmep

Glantir wrote: »

Have you used the ingame Feedback function? I dont think that the devs read much in the forums.

Many of us did.
Also what's the point if the feedback threads created by the CMs if they will just ignore them.