Bloodspawn

lucky_Sage

The ulti gen from this set needs to go back to 14.

Austinseph1

And the nerf cycle continues, gotta sell the antiquity system somehow

CurvedSwords123

Set was over nerfed. They sacrifice bloodspawn to make their antiquities (and their accompanying grind) more palatable.

Iron_Blurr

I would say remove the armor buff proc completely but revert the ulti gen to what it originally was. The ulti gen was the whole identity of the set. There are plenty of armor buffing sets. But there was only one ulti gen monster set.

YandereGirlfriend

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

I would say remove the armor buff proc completely but revert the armor buff to what it originally was. The ulti gen was the whole identity of the set. There are plenty of armor buffing sets. But there was only one ulti get monster set.

I think this would be a fantastic change.

MurderMostFoul

It got nerfed to hell, but I'll still prob run it on some toons in noCP. It still gives a lot for just 2 pieces.

Tethalion

Reasons aside, I feel like a game's primary service is for the players to have fun, and I don't think I've seen a single response where the changes to Bloodspawn adds to user-satisfaction.

This change should not happen due to that, alone; not to mention "commonly used" does not always equal "unbalanced". Many people have commented that they would continue to use it despite feeling unsatisfied regarding the changes, which should demonstrate that Bloodspawn is used for more than combat function, but as part of people's play-experience.

Olupajmibanan

@Tethalion

The main problem was lack of other options. Bloodspawn wasn't used for being OP nor for people's play experience as you call it. It was simply used because all other options are bad. If I somehow accept the reasoning behind BS nerf (I don't), I would say nerfing Bloodspawn was supposed to bring it down to the level of other options to no longer feel being forced to Bloodspawn because everything else is worse, BUT WHY ON EARTH they nerfed other options that came into question after BS nerf (Balorgh, Grundwulf, Earthgore, Engine Guardian, ...)????????? Nerf to other options along with Bloodspawn just brought down the level of monster sets alltogether without changing relative power of Bloodspawn. Now the situation is exactly the same, you continue using Bloodspawn because all other options are bad. Looks like spreadsheet won over common sense.

Narvuntien

It was op, it needed a nerf.

Dracane

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

Set was over nerfed. They sacrifice bloodspawn to make their antiquities (and their accompanying grind) more palatable.

Just that the antiquties do not even offer a similar set or any defensive set of that kind at all [snip]

Maybe bloodspawn was nerfed because it was the best in slot for every spec and nearly every build; eclipsing everything else there is. Though I am not sure if I wish to trade bloodspawn meta with a pirate skeleton meta which we will get next patch. Buffing this set was an impudence!

[Minor edit for Baiting]

OlumoGarbag

Narvuntien wrote: »

It was op, it needed a nerf.

It wasn't OP, you have to get hit 17 times average to get a 5 seconds uptime in a resistance buff. If one guy uses a single target skill and light attack on you that is one proc every 8,5 seconds. Leaving you with a huge window of downtime. Bloodspawn was always an outnumbered set. Helping you when facing multiple enemys. Now there is almost no other set that can replace it (maybe malu)

In conclusion: bloodspawn was performing extremely well but only in its type of gameplay, it will never safe you from being ganked nor will it be super strong against high hitting single target direct damage skills.

likecats

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

It was op, it needed a nerf.

It wasn't OP, you have to get hit 17 times average to get a 5 seconds uptime in a resistance buff. If one guy uses a single target skill and light attack on you that is one proc every 8,5 seconds. Leaving you with a huge window of downtime. Bloodspawn was always an outnumbered set. Helping you when facing multiple enemys. Now there is almost no other set that can replace it (maybe malu)

In conclusion: bloodspawn was performing extremely well but only in its type of gameplay, it will never safe you from being ganked nor will it be super strong against high hitting single target direct damage skills.

You don't seem to understand how many instances of damage actually happens in ESO. 8.5 second average cooldown only holds true if you are fighting a single potato enemy who doesn't understand combat in this game.

It is not an outnumbered set, the set is incredibly strong in 1v1's as well. If you are fighting a templar or a DK, it is super likely that the set will proc on cooldown considering the number of DOTs these enemies use. Biting jabs itself is 4 hits within 1 second, add burning light, a light attack and a DOT tick, an enchant, and you have 8 hits in less than 2 seconds. Any DOT build on any class, this will continue to hold true.

In BG's where you are not supposed to be outnumbered by design, this set provides really really high uptime due to the constant AOE's and pet damage that help proc the set. Test it out yourself if you do not believe me.

As for OPness, imagine a monster set that provided 6450 penetration on a set that procs as highly as Bloodspawn does. It would be the most undisputedly OP set available. For some reason the forum community is fine with defensive options being stronger than offensive options. Also the forum community: "wE NeEd tO gEt RiD oF TaNk MeTa". This is before even considering the ulti gen.

lucky_Sage

likecats wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

It was op, it needed a nerf.

It wasn't OP, you have to get hit 17 times average to get a 5 seconds uptime in a resistance buff. If one guy uses a single target skill and light attack on you that is one proc every 8,5 seconds. Leaving you with a huge window of downtime. Bloodspawn was always an outnumbered set. Helping you when facing multiple enemys. Now there is almost no other set that can replace it (maybe malu)

In conclusion: bloodspawn was performing extremely well but only in its type of gameplay, it will never safe you from being ganked nor will it be super strong against high hitting single target direct damage skills.

You don't seem to understand how many instances of damage actually happens in ESO. 8.5 second average cooldown only holds true if you are fighting a single potato enemy who doesn't understand combat in this game.

It is not an outnumbered set, the set is incredibly strong in 1v1's as well. If you are fighting a templar or a DK, it is super likely that the set will proc on cooldown considering the number of DOTs these enemies use. Biting jabs itself is 4 hits within 1 second, add burning light, a light attack and a DOT tick, an enchant, and you have 8 hits in less than 2 seconds. Any DOT build on any class, this will continue to hold true.

In BG's where you are not supposed to be outnumbered by design, this set provides really really high uptime due to the constant AOE's and pet damage that help proc the set. Test it out yourself if you do not believe me.

As for OPness, imagine a monster set that provided 6450 penetration on a set that procs as highly as Bloodspawn does. It would be the most undisputedly OP set available. For some reason the forum community is fine with defensive options being stronger than offensive options. Also the forum community: "wE NeEd tO gEt RiD oF TaNk MeTa". This is before even considering the ulti gen.

@likecats
This will not get rid of tank meta like everyone who uses this set will find another way to be just as tanks ormore with loosing the least amount of dmg.
Tank meta doesn’t happen is non cp the tank meta happens because cp. the tank cp works better if it actually balanced each other out like they say the dmg in non cp and co would be closer but it’s not cp is the biggest issue with 90% of the games broken balance

likecats

lucky_Sage wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

It was op, it needed a nerf.

It wasn't OP, you have to get hit 17 times average to get a 5 seconds uptime in a resistance buff. If one guy uses a single target skill and light attack on you that is one proc every 8,5 seconds. Leaving you with a huge window of downtime. Bloodspawn was always an outnumbered set. Helping you when facing multiple enemys. Now there is almost no other set that can replace it (maybe malu)

In conclusion: bloodspawn was performing extremely well but only in its type of gameplay, it will never safe you from being ganked nor will it be super strong against high hitting single target direct damage skills.

You don't seem to understand how many instances of damage actually happens in ESO. 8.5 second average cooldown only holds true if you are fighting a single potato enemy who doesn't understand combat in this game.

It is not an outnumbered set, the set is incredibly strong in 1v1's as well. If you are fighting a templar or a DK, it is super likely that the set will proc on cooldown considering the number of DOTs these enemies use. Biting jabs itself is 4 hits within 1 second, add burning light, a light attack and a DOT tick, an enchant, and you have 8 hits in less than 2 seconds. Any DOT build on any class, this will continue to hold true.

In BG's where you are not supposed to be outnumbered by design, this set provides really really high uptime due to the constant AOE's and pet damage that help proc the set. Test it out yourself if you do not believe me.

As for OPness, imagine a monster set that provided 6450 penetration on a set that procs as highly as Bloodspawn does. It would be the most undisputedly OP set available. For some reason the forum community is fine with defensive options being stronger than offensive options. Also the forum community: "wE NeEd tO gEt RiD oF TaNk MeTa". This is before even considering the ulti gen.

@likecats
This will not get rid of tank meta like everyone who uses this set will find another way to be just as tanks ormore with loosing the least amount of dmg.
Tank meta doesn’t happen is non cp the tank meta happens because cp. the tank cp works better if it actually balanced each other out like they say the dmg in non cp and co would be closer but it’s not cp is the biggest issue with 90% of the games broken balance

You are right that tank meta won't end next patch, thanks to the OP heavy eternal vigor set next patch.
But the point is that we shouldn't ignore an OP set just because it provides defence rather than offence.

Six months down the line I wouldn't be surprised if people will be defending Eternal Vigor left and right just like Bloodspawn when ZOS finally decides they have made enough sales. On the other hand, I can see loud calls for nerfs to Stuhn's Favor (rightfully), because for some reason people love OP defensive sets, unlike dmg sets.

lucky_Sage

likecats wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

It was op, it needed a nerf.

It wasn't OP, you have to get hit 17 times average to get a 5 seconds uptime in a resistance buff. If one guy uses a single target skill and light attack on you that is one proc every 8,5 seconds. Leaving you with a huge window of downtime. Bloodspawn was always an outnumbered set. Helping you when facing multiple enemys. Now there is almost no other set that can replace it (maybe malu)

In conclusion: bloodspawn was performing extremely well but only in its type of gameplay, it will never safe you from being ganked nor will it be super strong against high hitting single target direct damage skills.

You don't seem to understand how many instances of damage actually happens in ESO. 8.5 second average cooldown only holds true if you are fighting a single potato enemy who doesn't understand combat in this game.

It is not an outnumbered set, the set is incredibly strong in 1v1's as well. If you are fighting a templar or a DK, it is super likely that the set will proc on cooldown considering the number of DOTs these enemies use. Biting jabs itself is 4 hits within 1 second, add burning light, a light attack and a DOT tick, an enchant, and you have 8 hits in less than 2 seconds. Any DOT build on any class, this will continue to hold true.

In BG's where you are not supposed to be outnumbered by design, this set provides really really high uptime due to the constant AOE's and pet damage that help proc the set. Test it out yourself if you do not believe me.

As for OPness, imagine a monster set that provided 6450 penetration on a set that procs as highly as Bloodspawn does. It would be the most undisputedly OP set available. For some reason the forum community is fine with defensive options being stronger than offensive options. Also the forum community: "wE NeEd tO gEt RiD oF TaNk MeTa". This is before even considering the ulti gen.

@likecats
This will not get rid of tank meta like everyone who uses this set will find another way to be just as tanks ormore with loosing the least amount of dmg.
Tank meta doesn’t happen is non cp the tank meta happens because cp. the tank cp works better if it actually balanced each other out like they say the dmg in non cp and co would be closer but it’s not cp is the biggest issue with 90% of the games broken balance

You are right that tank meta won't end next patch, thanks to the OP heavy eternal vigor set next patch.
But the point is that we shouldn't ignore an OP set just because it provides defence rather than offence.

Six months down the line I wouldn't be surprised if people will be defending Eternal Vigor left and right just like Bloodspawn when ZOS finally decides they have made enough sales. On the other hand, I can see loud calls for nerfs to Stuhn's Favor (rightfully), because for some reason people love OP defensive sets, unlike dmg sets.

Stuhns favor got nerfed hard with all the complaints on how op it was.

likecats

lucky_Sage wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

It was op, it needed a nerf.

It wasn't OP, you have to get hit 17 times average to get a 5 seconds uptime in a resistance buff. If one guy uses a single target skill and light attack on you that is one proc every 8,5 seconds. Leaving you with a huge window of downtime. Bloodspawn was always an outnumbered set. Helping you when facing multiple enemys. Now there is almost no other set that can replace it (maybe malu)

In conclusion: bloodspawn was performing extremely well but only in its type of gameplay, it will never safe you from being ganked nor will it be super strong against high hitting single target direct damage skills.

You don't seem to understand how many instances of damage actually happens in ESO. 8.5 second average cooldown only holds true if you are fighting a single potato enemy who doesn't understand combat in this game.

It is not an outnumbered set, the set is incredibly strong in 1v1's as well. If you are fighting a templar or a DK, it is super likely that the set will proc on cooldown considering the number of DOTs these enemies use. Biting jabs itself is 4 hits within 1 second, add burning light, a light attack and a DOT tick, an enchant, and you have 8 hits in less than 2 seconds. Any DOT build on any class, this will continue to hold true.

In BG's where you are not supposed to be outnumbered by design, this set provides really really high uptime due to the constant AOE's and pet damage that help proc the set. Test it out yourself if you do not believe me.

As for OPness, imagine a monster set that provided 6450 penetration on a set that procs as highly as Bloodspawn does. It would be the most undisputedly OP set available. For some reason the forum community is fine with defensive options being stronger than offensive options. Also the forum community: "wE NeEd tO gEt RiD oF TaNk MeTa". This is before even considering the ulti gen.

@likecats
This will not get rid of tank meta like everyone who uses this set will find another way to be just as tanks ormore with loosing the least amount of dmg.
Tank meta doesn’t happen is non cp the tank meta happens because cp. the tank cp works better if it actually balanced each other out like they say the dmg in non cp and co would be closer but it’s not cp is the biggest issue with 90% of the games broken balance

You are right that tank meta won't end next patch, thanks to the OP heavy eternal vigor set next patch.
But the point is that we shouldn't ignore an OP set just because it provides defence rather than offence.

Six months down the line I wouldn't be surprised if people will be defending Eternal Vigor left and right just like Bloodspawn when ZOS finally decides they have made enough sales. On the other hand, I can see loud calls for nerfs to Stuhn's Favor (rightfully), because for some reason people love OP defensive sets, unlike dmg sets.

Stuhns favor got nerfed hard with all the complaints on how op it was.

Must have missed it in the patch notes. Proves my point, considering eternal vigor is unscathed AFAIK.

lucky_Sage

likecats wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

likecats wrote: »

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

It was op, it needed a nerf.

It wasn't OP, you have to get hit 17 times average to get a 5 seconds uptime in a resistance buff. If one guy uses a single target skill and light attack on you that is one proc every 8,5 seconds. Leaving you with a huge window of downtime. Bloodspawn was always an outnumbered set. Helping you when facing multiple enemys. Now there is almost no other set that can replace it (maybe malu)

In conclusion: bloodspawn was performing extremely well but only in its type of gameplay, it will never safe you from being ganked nor will it be super strong against high hitting single target direct damage skills.

You don't seem to understand how many instances of damage actually happens in ESO. 8.5 second average cooldown only holds true if you are fighting a single potato enemy who doesn't understand combat in this game.

It is not an outnumbered set, the set is incredibly strong in 1v1's as well. If you are fighting a templar or a DK, it is super likely that the set will proc on cooldown considering the number of DOTs these enemies use. Biting jabs itself is 4 hits within 1 second, add burning light, a light attack and a DOT tick, an enchant, and you have 8 hits in less than 2 seconds. Any DOT build on any class, this will continue to hold true.

In BG's where you are not supposed to be outnumbered by design, this set provides really really high uptime due to the constant AOE's and pet damage that help proc the set. Test it out yourself if you do not believe me.

As for OPness, imagine a monster set that provided 6450 penetration on a set that procs as highly as Bloodspawn does. It would be the most undisputedly OP set available. For some reason the forum community is fine with defensive options being stronger than offensive options. Also the forum community: "wE NeEd tO gEt RiD oF TaNk MeTa". This is before even considering the ulti gen.

@likecats
This will not get rid of tank meta like everyone who uses this set will find another way to be just as tanks ormore with loosing the least amount of dmg.
Tank meta doesn’t happen is non cp the tank meta happens because cp. the tank cp works better if it actually balanced each other out like they say the dmg in non cp and co would be closer but it’s not cp is the biggest issue with 90% of the games broken balance

You are right that tank meta won't end next patch, thanks to the OP heavy eternal vigor set next patch.
But the point is that we shouldn't ignore an OP set just because it provides defence rather than offence.

Six months down the line I wouldn't be surprised if people will be defending Eternal Vigor left and right just like Bloodspawn when ZOS finally decides they have made enough sales. On the other hand, I can see loud calls for nerfs to Stuhn's Favor (rightfully), because for some reason people love OP defensive sets, unlike dmg sets.

Stuhns favor got nerfed hard with all the complaints on how op it was.

Must have missed it in the patch notes. Proves my point, considering eternal vigor is unscathed AFAIK.

Does it really seems that strong?

ItsJustHashtag

Imo they should have left the ult value the same if they wanted to reduce the armor value.

Shouldn’t have taken both.

Iron_Blurr

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Imo they should have left the ult value the same if they wanted to reduce the armor value.

Shouldn’t have taken both.

100% agree. If you want to nerf it remove the armor buff. But dont destroy the ulti gen because that was the whole identity of the set. If you want armor you can always wear something else.
I would rather have specialized use monster sets than ones that are mediocre and watered down to retain multiple effects.

Xebov

There is no reason to revert that change.

At least for BGs, dont know about Cyro, this is the most used monster set. Not because its the most OP one, but because it adds the most utility. Given the high number of AoEs, Hits and Dots its also very easy procable and has a good uptime.

Having a higher availability for Ultimates that can be used on will to turn battles or to enhance an alpha strike is more usefull and reliable than having an effect that might or might not proc or hit when you need it. The additional is a nice to have side effect.

Its also nice to see that alot of players indirectly say this by wanting to trade the remaining armor for a revert in ulti regen.

CurvedSwords123

Dracane wrote: »

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

Set was over nerfed. They sacrifice bloodspawn to make their antiquities (and their accompanying grind) more palatable.

Just that the antiquties do not even offer a similar set or any defensive set of that kind at all [snip]

Maybe bloodspawn was nerfed because it was the best in slot for every spec and nearly every build; eclipsing everything else there is. Though I am not sure if I wish to trade bloodspawn meta with a pirate skeleton meta which we will get next patch. Buffing this set was an impudence!

[Minor edit for Baiting]

[snip]. Bloodspawn was both offensive and defensive, it was the favoured monster set because it added to every build. It was ubiquitous.

Mostly Bloodspawn, but other highly used monster sets were adjusted. This is to make an antiquity+1 piece more desirable. This is to make purchasing Greymoor to have top tier build options more desirable. [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

Taktak

lucky_Sage wrote: »

The ulti gen from this set needs to go back to 14.

Agree 100%.....it's monster set after all

relentless_turnip

I think it would be fine if they just doubled its proc chance. They have shortened it's duration and cool down by 1 sec so increasing the proc chance would make up for the lower ult gen.

Xebov

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I think it would be fine if they just doubled its proc chance. They have shortened it's duration and cool down by 1 sec so increasing the proc chance would make up for the lower ult gen.

Have you ever thought about that the lower ult gen might be actually the point of this change?

Rake

its one thing to nerf something
and another to basically delete it

Olupajmibanan

Rake wrote: »

its one thing to nerf something
and another to basically delete it

Asylum Destro agrees on that with even much sadder story than Bloodspawn has. Why would you nerf a set to deconstruct-on-drop state that was overperforming exclusively thanks to a bug that got fixed anyways?

Calypso589

[snip]

@MurderMostFoul You can't argue that 1 mythic + 1 monster is comparatively much more appealing after the various nerfs to monster sets. At least for PvP.

I can, actually.

Bloodlord's Embrace: Magicka on block seems great for PvP if anything. But the skill "balance" is a thing and that skill also comes with a Major Buff (as well as provides way more magicka). Now that's not to say there aren't other sources of major resolve that could be used in conjunction with Bloodlord..........but if a skill can provide both then why slot a skill aaaaand a chest piece to do it?

That's just poor economics.

Same reason no PvE tank will ever wear this chest.

Malacath's Band of Brutality: We're in a crit meta atm so for PvE this ring is going right out the window. Maaaaaybe it'll make some appearances in PvP? Perhaps it might be beneficial to slot this and rely less on crit damage?

You tell me.

Ring of the Wild Hunt: : Overworld gathering will be faster. Scroll runners might like this if they're not in combat while in transit. Useless in PvE. Movement speed is already readily accessible in battlegrounds without sacrificing a monster set.

Snow Treaders: Again, useless in PvE because you can and should just be able to break out of stuns when they happen without issue. These things'll probably be the new Chaosball meta. lol

Thrassian Stranglers: This is the ONLY set that without question will be slotted by Magicka compositions because the damage is so good. Depending on how sweaty your group is you'll either reset the instance upon a wipe or everyone will just swap to a non-thrassian build.

You don't gain stacks from killing animals anymore so I don't see these things making an appearance in Cyrodiil or BGs. You'd have to be pretty DAMN confident of your ability to stay alive if you wear these things in those places.

Torc of Tonal Constancy: Do I need to touch on why this one is bad?

Mythic items are incredibly niche overall. Their utilities are specific. Incredibly specific.

They are not automatically more desirable just because monster sets received some nerfs. It's entirely dependent on what you wanna do or what your group is trying to do.


[Minor edit for Baiting]

relentless_turnip

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

Calypso589 wrote: »

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Calypso589 wrote: »

@CurvedSwords123 Mostly Bloodspawn, but other highly used monster sets were adjusted. This is to make an antiquity+1 piece more desirable. This is to make purchasing Greymoor to have top tier build options more desirable. Obviously.

.

You can't argue that 1 mythic + 1 monster is comparatively much more appealing after the various nerfs to monster sets. At least for PvP.

.

@MurderMostFoul You can't argue that 1 mythic + 1 monster is comparatively much more appealing after the various nerfs to monster sets. At least for PvP.

I can, actually.

Bloodlord's Embrace: Magicka on block seems great for PvP if anything. But the skill "balance" is a thing and that skill also comes with a Major Buff (as well as provides way more magicka). Now that's not to say there aren't other sources of major resolve that could be used in conjunction with Bloodlord..........but if a skill can provide both then why slot a skill aaaaand a chest piece to do it?

That's just poor economics.

Same reason no PvE tank will ever wear this chest.

Malacath's Band of Brutality: We're in a crit meta atm so for PvE this ring is going right out the window. Maaaaaybe it'll make some appearances in PvP? Perhaps it might be beneficial to slot this and rely less on crit damage?

You tell me.

Ring of the Wild Hunt: : Overworld gathering will be faster. Scroll runners might like this if they're not in combat while in transit. Useless in PvE. Movement speed is already readily accessible in battlegrounds without sacrificing a monster set.

Snow Treaders: Again, useless in PvE because you can and should just be able to break out of stuns when they happen without issue. These things'll probably be the new Chaosball meta. lol

Thrassian Stranglers: This is the ONLY set that without question will be slotted by Magicka compositions because the damage is so good. Depending on how sweaty your group is you'll either reset the instance upon a wipe or everyone will just swap to a non-thrassian build.

You don't gain stacks from killing animals anymore so I don't see these things making an appearance in Cyrodiil or BGs. You'd have to be pretty DAMN confident of your ability to stay alive if you wear these things in those places.

Torc of Tonal Constancy: Do I need to touch on why this one is bad?

Mythic items are incredibly niche overall. Their utilities are specific. Incredibly specific.

They are not automatically more desirable just because monster sets received some nerfs. It's entirely dependent on what you wanna do or what your group is trying to do.

[snip]

I have tested malacath a lot and it isn't that great... Not for everyone anyway, heavy builds or builds with very low crit it is strong. I duelled a lot of people with cp and without it's not the game changer everyone has claimed it will be.
It is very balanced actually.

A crit against someone in 7 impen without cp and no investment in crit damage. I was doing about +16% more damage, but obviously much more damage against everyone else. The very most damage I could get out of malacath was +19% and on one build it was only +9%. So like the rest of the mythics I think it works well with specific builds where you have already sacrificed crit. Wild Hunt ring is by far my favourite... I was running circles round most in my duels 🤭

What has occurred to me during my testing is that what ZOS has done is very clever. They have reduced healing, mitigation and increased damage. They have reduced the effectiveness of crit damage via the base crit resist and drawn people away from it with this ring. Originally I thought this will be a high damage patch and PvP will be faster. Now I'm not so sure...

The spikes in your damage are where you capatalise and the same can be said defensively.

CurvedSwords123

relentless_turnip wrote: »

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

Calypso589 wrote: »

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Calypso589 wrote: »

@CurvedSwords123 Mostly Bloodspawn, but other highly used monster sets were adjusted. This is to make an antiquity+1 piece more desirable. This is to make purchasing Greymoor to have top tier build options more desirable. Obviously.

Spoken like someone who has no idea what's actually gonna be top tier.

You can't argue that 1 mythic + 1 monster is comparatively much more appealing after the various nerfs to monster sets. At least for PvP.

Oh he will prob lol. Usually when someone gives you an accusation of ignorance for voicing some analysis, but provides no follow up or basis. There will be no honest engagement.

Thank you for the critical analysis, Doctor. Time for you to get off the forums now.

@MurderMostFoul You can't argue that 1 mythic + 1 monster is comparatively much more appealing after the various nerfs to monster sets. At least for PvP.

I can, actually.

Bloodlord's Embrace: Magicka on block seems great for PvP if anything. But the skill "balance" is a thing and that skill also comes with a Major Buff (as well as provides way more magicka). Now that's not to say there aren't other sources of major resolve that could be used in conjunction with Bloodlord..........but if a skill can provide both then why slot a skill aaaaand a chest piece to do it?

That's just poor economics.

Same reason no PvE tank will ever wear this chest.

Malacath's Band of Brutality: We're in a crit meta atm so for PvE this ring is going right out the window. Maaaaaybe it'll make some appearances in PvP? Perhaps it might be beneficial to slot this and rely less on crit damage?

You tell me.

Ring of the Wild Hunt: : Overworld gathering will be faster. Scroll runners might like this if they're not in combat while in transit. Useless in PvE. Movement speed is already readily accessible in battlegrounds without sacrificing a monster set.

Snow Treaders: Again, useless in PvE because you can and should just be able to break out of stuns when they happen without issue. These things'll probably be the new Chaosball meta. lol

Thrassian Stranglers: This is the ONLY set that without question will be slotted by Magicka compositions because the damage is so good. Depending on how sweaty your group is you'll either reset the instance upon a wipe or everyone will just swap to a non-thrassian build.

You don't gain stacks from killing animals anymore so I don't see these things making an appearance in Cyrodiil or BGs. You'd have to be pretty DAMN confident of your ability to stay alive if you wear these things in those places.

Torc of Tonal Constancy: Do I need to touch on why this one is bad?

Mythic items are incredibly niche overall. Their utilities are specific. Incredibly specific.

They are not automatically more desirable just because monster sets received some nerfs. It's entirely dependent on what you wanna do or what your group is trying to do.

I'm the doctor when you're the one giving this diatribe? Nice strawman btw, I said access to more top tier build options which these will clearly provide; who said will be preferable over monster sets in every situation. Murdermostfoul didn't, he just has common sense and understands why there were sweeping monster set nerfs.

Niche? Everything is niche as we either spec for PvP, PvE, DPS, Tankiness etc. You don't even understand how powerful Malacath will be in no cp PvP. I'm not surprised the purpose of the monster set adjustments went over your head.

I have tested malacath a lot and it isn't that great... Not for everyone anyway, heavy builds or builds with very low crit it is strong. I duelled a lot of people with cp and without it's not the game changer everyone has claimed it will be.
It is very balanced actually.

A crit against someone in 7 impen without cp and no investment in crit damage. I was doing about +16% more damage, but obviously much more damage against everyone else. The very most damage I could get out of malacath was +19% and on one build it was only +9%. So like the rest of the mythics I think it works well with specific builds where you have already sacrificed crit. Wild Hunt ring is by far my favourite... I was running circles round most in my duels 🤭

What has occurred to me during my testing is that what ZOS has done is very clever. They have reduced healing, mitigation and increased damage. They have reduced the effectiveness of crit damage via the base crit resist and drawn people away from it with this ring. Originally I thought this will be a high damage patch and PvP will be faster. Now I'm not so sure...

The spikes in your damage are where you capatalise and the same can be said defensively.

I'm honestly so glad to hear you say that. Thank you for the input. I main a Stamsorc that has high Crit and I like no cp. I figured this ring would push him to the side. I was considering maining Stamcro just because I thought my Stamsorc would be so subpar in no cp due to this ring.

Still, it's fair to say we are going to need a large group of results when this goes live to pass final judgment eh?

MurderMostFoul

[snip]

@MurderMostFoul You can't argue that 1 mythic + 1 monster is comparatively much more appealing after the various nerfs to monster sets. At least for PvP.

I can, actually.

Bloodlord's Embrace: Magicka on block seems great for PvP if anything. But the skill "balance" is a thing and that skill also comes with a Major Buff (as well as provides way more magicka). Now that's not to say there aren't other sources of major resolve that could be used in conjunction with Bloodlord..........but if a skill can provide both then why slot a skill aaaaand a chest piece to do it?

That's just poor economics.

Same reason no PvE tank will ever wear this chest.

Malacath's Band of Brutality: We're in a crit meta atm so for PvE this ring is going right out the window. Maaaaaybe it'll make some appearances in PvP? Perhaps it might be beneficial to slot this and rely less on crit damage?

You tell me.

Ring of the Wild Hunt: : Overworld gathering will be faster. Scroll runners might like this if they're not in combat while in transit. Useless in PvE. Movement speed is already readily accessible in battlegrounds without sacrificing a monster set.

Snow Treaders: Again, useless in PvE because you can and should just be able to break out of stuns when they happen without issue. These things'll probably be the new Chaosball meta. lol

Thrassian Stranglers: This is the ONLY set that without question will be slotted by Magicka compositions because the damage is so good. Depending on how sweaty your group is you'll either reset the instance upon a wipe or everyone will just swap to a non-thrassian build.

You don't gain stacks from killing animals anymore so I don't see these things making an appearance in Cyrodiil or BGs. You'd have to be pretty DAMN confident of your ability to stay alive if you wear these things in those places.

Torc of Tonal Constancy: Do I need to touch on why this one is bad?

Mythic items are incredibly niche overall. Their utilities are specific. Incredibly specific.

They are not automatically more desirable just because monster sets received some nerfs. It's entirely dependent on what you wanna do or what your group is trying to do.

[Minor edit for Baiting]

Did you miss the part where I clearly said,

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

At least for PvP.

?

For PvP, when comparing Mythic items to the second bonus from monster sets, you have to first acknowledge that when doing so, you get to pick ANY one piece monster bonus to pair with your Mythic item, allowing for heightened customization and Min-Maxing. You can also back bar a 5 piece set with a buff you can carry to the front bar, and front bar a 5 piece, 3 of 5 piece, 3 piece, and a Mythic.

For Example:

Backbar:
Head, Shoulder, Chest: Truth
Legs, Feet, Waist, Hands: NMA
Ring 1: NMA
Ring 2: Ring of the Wild Hunt
Neck: Agility
Weapons: Truth

Frontbar:
Head, Shoulder, Chest: Truth
Legs, Feet, Waist, Hands: NMA
Rings 1: NMA
Ring 2: Ring of the Wild Hunt
Neck: Agility
Weapons: Agility

Again, in PvP

Malacath's Band of Brutality: In PvP, crits are getting a huge nerf due to added baseline crit resists. This set will be useful in CP and borderline broken in NoCP. What other second monster set bonus adds this much flat damage?

Ring of the Wild Hunt: : You say, "Movement speed is already readily accessible in battlegrounds without sacrificing a monster set."
How readily accessible is an additional 15% stack-able movement speed? I would MUCH rather sacrifice the nerfed second monster set bonus for it than getting only 10% out of the Steed, or a little pit more by losing ALL of my jewelry traits. And if you are looking at 5 piece bonuses for this speed, than you are obviously making a greater sacrifice than your second monster set bonus.

Snow Treaders: You say, "Again, useless in PvE because you can and should just be able to break out of stuns when they happen without issue". This set has nothing to do with stuns.
But getting back to PvP, this set can be very useful for Magicka Builds, or for Heavy Armor PvP tanks builds. Snares are rampant in PvP, and on the right build, this item can be very useful.

Thrassian Stranglers: Good of PvE like you said, but very niche for PvP. However, if you had the right build, and a ran with a group that could support this build, you could enter God-Mode in PvP with this.

Torc of Tonal Constancy: You've undercut your entire argument by admitting that you fail to realize how powerful this can be. Just looking at PvP, any magicka class can that is dodge-rolling or breaking free from time to time will see the magicka recovery often, and if you are low on magicka, the stam recovery kicks in to let you roll away, breakfree, or sprint as needed. And for any Stamina class that has one or two frequently used magicka utility skills (Extended Ritual, mist form, fossilize, cloak, fear, streak, dark deal, shimmering shield, etc.), they will see the stam recovery very often. And when their stam is low, it won't be hard to cast any of those utility abilities.

Bloodlord's Embrace: I strictly PvP, and this item doesn't seem very powerful there apart from perhaps tanky support builds, but there certainly seems to be uses for this in PvE.

relentless_turnip

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

Calypso589 wrote: »

CurvedSwords123 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Calypso589 wrote: »

@CurvedSwords123 Mostly Bloodspawn, but other highly used monster sets were adjusted. This is to make an antiquity+1 piece more desirable. This is to make purchasing Greymoor to have top tier build options more desirable. Obviously.

Spoken like someone who has no idea what's actually gonna be top tier.

You can't argue that 1 mythic + 1 monster is comparatively much more appealing after the various nerfs to monster sets. At least for PvP.

Oh he will prob lol. Usually when someone gives you an accusation of ignorance for voicing some analysis, but provides no follow up or basis. There will be no honest engagement.

Thank you for the critical analysis, Doctor. Time for you to get off the forums now.

@MurderMostFoul You can't argue that 1 mythic + 1 monster is comparatively much more appealing after the various nerfs to monster sets. At least for PvP.

I can, actually.

Bloodlord's Embrace: Magicka on block seems great for PvP if anything. But the skill "balance" is a thing and that skill also comes with a Major Buff (as well as provides way more magicka). Now that's not to say there aren't other sources of major resolve that could be used in conjunction with Bloodlord..........but if a skill can provide both then why slot a skill aaaaand a chest piece to do it?

That's just poor economics.

Same reason no PvE tank will ever wear this chest.

Malacath's Band of Brutality: We're in a crit meta atm so for PvE this ring is going right out the window. Maaaaaybe it'll make some appearances in PvP? Perhaps it might be beneficial to slot this and rely less on crit damage?

You tell me.

Ring of the Wild Hunt: : Overworld gathering will be faster. Scroll runners might like this if they're not in combat while in transit. Useless in PvE. Movement speed is already readily accessible in battlegrounds without sacrificing a monster set.

Snow Treaders: Again, useless in PvE because you can and should just be able to break out of stuns when they happen without issue. These things'll probably be the new Chaosball meta. lol

Thrassian Stranglers: This is the ONLY set that without question will be slotted by Magicka compositions because the damage is so good. Depending on how sweaty your group is you'll either reset the instance upon a wipe or everyone will just swap to a non-thrassian build.

You don't gain stacks from killing animals anymore so I don't see these things making an appearance in Cyrodiil or BGs. You'd have to be pretty DAMN confident of your ability to stay alive if you wear these things in those places.

Torc of Tonal Constancy: Do I need to touch on why this one is bad?

Mythic items are incredibly niche overall. Their utilities are specific. Incredibly specific.

They are not automatically more desirable just because monster sets received some nerfs. It's entirely dependent on what you wanna do or what your group is trying to do.

I'm the doctor when you're the one giving this diatribe? Nice strawman btw, I said access to more top tier build options which these will clearly provide; who said will be preferable over monster sets in every situation. Murdermostfoul didn't, he just has common sense and understands why there were sweeping monster set nerfs.

Niche? Everything is niche as we either spec for PvP, PvE, DPS, Tankiness etc. You don't even understand how powerful Malacath will be in no cp PvP. I'm not surprised the purpose of the monster set adjustments went over your head.

I have tested malacath a lot and it isn't that great... Not for everyone anyway, heavy builds or builds with very low crit it is strong. I duelled a lot of people with cp and without it's not the game changer everyone has claimed it will be.
It is very balanced actually.

A crit against someone in 7 impen without cp and no investment in crit damage. I was doing about +16% more damage, but obviously much more damage against everyone else. The very most damage I could get out of malacath was +19% and on one build it was only +9%. So like the rest of the mythics I think it works well with specific builds where you have already sacrificed crit. Wild Hunt ring is by far my favourite... I was running circles round most in my duels 🤭

What has occurred to me during my testing is that what ZOS has done is very clever. They have reduced healing, mitigation and increased damage. They have reduced the effectiveness of crit damage via the base crit resist and drawn people away from it with this ring. Originally I thought this will be a high damage patch and PvP will be faster. Now I'm not so sure...

The spikes in your damage are where you capatalise and the same can be said defensively.

I'm honestly so glad to hear you say that. Thank you for the input. I main a Stamsorc that has high Crit and I like no cp. I figured this ring would push him to the side. I was considering maining Stamcro just because I thought my Stamsorc would be so subpar in no cp due to this ring.

Still, it's fair to say we are going to need a large group of results when this goes live to pass final judgment eh?

Stam sorc with ring of wild hunt! I don't think anyone will see you 🤫

Nothing I say is conclusive... I can only assure you from my experience it isn't as good as it looks on paper. If you run mainly fast builds like me you'll be happy to hear you can run 4 well fitted and still be in a better place for crit resist than you are now. I coupled 4x well fitted and one reduced cost and i can practically roll dodge endlessly.