Performance PC EU vs PC NA

idk

Thevampirenight wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

As they have explained Pc Eu is their most populated Server.

A lot of people play and now a lot more play possibly the most they have ever had so far. Factors including the coming of Greymoor not to mention the Covid 19 keeping people at home. What are they going to do well maybe play Video games and maybe play mmorpgs/mmos and maybe Eso is that game.
So the issue is there is so much more population of players now. That it likely is causing a big strain on the Eu server. Na I think is getting there at times. But not like the Eu. As both servers have seen an increase in player population.
It likely won't get better until a lot of those players move on or till things get back to normal.

Eu has always had problems and I think the server location is a factor or the isp or whatever it is down there. However I think the Covid is making it so much worse then before so hang in there.

Once that New World Mmo comes out enough players might go to that and by doing so lesson the strain on the Eu server in the process.

You are correct that PC/EU has a much larger population than NA according to Zos.

However, Amazon's New World MMORPG is not any real competition for ESO. As someone else pointed out it is PvP focused. Unlike ESO, it was designed to be open world PvP at its core. While they are pulling back from that full-on PvP and putting in some PvE it was fairly lacking last time I tested it.

In other words, most players that enjoy playing ESO will not ditch it for New World long term.

Even Pvp Focused that could be a good thing for the game here is why.
The most impact on game performance is the stuff Pvpers tend to do, they are the ones that will stack up the most calculation for example because they will spam cross heals and stack buffs and this is what Ball Groups tend to do from what I gathered from Watching that one Fengrush Video.
I just looked at New World and articles and other things discribing it. By what I gathered there will be forts and sieging however there will be more like factions as well and I think you will be able to form your own factions and fight against other players.

They will have pve and pvp focused content however it seems pvp will be a bigger focus for the game. However pve will also be there and also crafting as well. So if I'm reading this all right this Game will Rival Eso and for sure will draw Eso Players too it. Just because of the stuff going into it and if they do it so there is opt in pvp. Then Pvers might move over to the mmo as well and that could help the Eso Servers for the rest that remain. So I do think New World will have a much bigger effect.
https://www.newworld.com/en-us/news/articles/the-evolution-of-new-worlds-pvp
https://www.newworld.com/en-us/news/articles/state-of-the-game

I found these articles from those running the game and I linked them because they go into some details of how the game is and how its going to work. Eso needs a True Rival to save Eso Performance as that would siphon off some of those players that might be causing the most strain on Eso Servers.

So I'm hopeful at least for New World helping out Eso's Servers. I really hope it will Rival Eso so we can have better performance.
Right now this game has so many coming to it and I think Eso got Wow Refugees that abandoned Wow last year and plus this Covid stuff this year plus all those coming to the game to experience Greymoor. New World hopefully will help with that pressure for the rest of us that do remain with Eso. If New World can siphon off the strain then the Servers will be better performing.

It is still a very different type of PvP from the core. It is very doubtful that those that are every heavy into ESO PvP will like that kind of PvP starting with most of the PvP will be team-based. Heck, the ability to craft the best gear will likely still require being part of a team/guild. ESO is PvP soft in comparison to what I saw during my testing of the New World.

I expect many that are really into PvP will give it a try. I just think many will be in for a rude awakening. While they have tamped down on the PvP I still expect it will be more survival-based PvP which is very different than here.

Also, I really do not need those links. I actually played the game and have kept up with it. As for the PvE. it is pretty lame. There are no raids. It is pretty scary to think that PvE has not been their focus and now they are going to quickly design typical PvE group content as an afterthought. Sounds like a quality product can be expected.

In the end, sure, some will temporarily leave, some even long term. But the servers have been way overloaded beyond what we can expect NW will take away from ESO. I think it is a pipe dream to think it will be noticeable to pre-Covid times. Zos has added "capacity" but the various systems are still overloaded and at the core, that is the real issue plaguing ESO. Zos bit off more than it can manage since the very start of this game.

eso_lags

VaranisArano wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

As they have explained Pc Eu is their most populated Server. A lot of people play and now a lot more play possibly the most they have ever had so far. Factors including the coming of Greymoor not to mention the Covid 19 keeping people at home. What are they going to do well maybe play Video games and maybe play mmorpgs/mmos and maybe Eso is that game.
So the issue is there is so much more population of players now. That it likely is causing a big strain on the Eu server. Na I think is getting there at times. But no like the Eu. As both servers have seen an increase in player population.
It likely won't get better until a lot of those players move on or till things get back to normal.

Eu has always had problems and I think the server location is a factor or the isp or whatever it is down there. However I think the Covid is making it so much worse then before so hang in there. Once that New World Mmo comes out enough players might go to that and by doing so lesson the strain on the Eu server in the process.

Lol, yeah. "Server population", nice excuse. How exactly does all that "server stress" come into play at 5am in the morning when no one is on and a campaign is barely ticking off one bar?

Sure it's "population".

But okay. If the servers can't handle the numbers they need to upgrade so it can. Just proves that NA is privileged because ZOS is willing to pay for enough server space to handle you all. All you've done by running that argument is prove OP right.

Is this a bad time to mention that ZOS just upgraded the EU servers? It probably is.

Its almost like adding more server capacity isn't the silver bullet that's going to kill EU's performance problems.

I'd also caution against using streamers as representative gameplay when it comes to performance. If theirs wasn't on the good end of the playable spectrum, they wouldn't be streaming. Lots of players on NA experience terrible performance.

Well the population thing was also mentioned by the Devs at one point on the forums as being a big issue when there is so many logged in at one time. As Eu has many more players compared to Na and the time zones are not spread out like the Na which causes a lot of issues that is according to what they posted on the forums one time. They had to put a queue to log into the game for the Eu Player Base at one point until they could upgrade it or something. So yes the Population is a big issue and they had to do such upgrades before.
If Zenimax says its an issue then its an issue. They would know because they own the servers and know what they could handle a lot better then us. So some people might think its an excuse but this is what Zenimax themselves have told us. Its somewhere on the forums if someone wants to dig up that post.

It's an issue.
Its hardly the ONLY issue.
Just look at how parts of their game code have issues with high population. The problems caused by the failed rework of Groupfinder and the guild history after the increased demand from Guildfinder come to mind.

I get that people want to reduce performance to a simple silver bullet: "ZOS could kill our performance issues once and for all if they'd only spend more money on the servers, those greedy folks!"

Its not that simple and they're setting themselves up for bitter disappointment if they think it is.

I asked someone else before and ill ask you again, what about console? If you are going to believe that the problems coming from pc eu are mainly because of a lot of players then what is the excuse for console.

And I dont think anyone is expecting a silver bullet, however its been a year now since they started taking this issue seriously and we have seen things only get worse. And regardless its their fault, if they took performance more serious back in morrowind then things wouldnt be this bad right now. Every new class, different set, zone, etc. and new players, have put a strain on performance, especially in zones where people group up in large numbers such as cydrodil. There is literally no excuse for any of this.

What about console?
Um, console problems prove my point that adding more server capacity is not the SOLE solution to all ESO's performance woes on PC/EU. ESO's got lots of problems that aren't easy fixes.

I'm not sure where you were going with that, to be honest.

That's not to say that added server capacity can't be helpful, as we have seen extreme problems on PC/EU in 2019 when ZOS reached the limit of the server capacity and dramatic improvements when they upgraded. It is still one of the solutions to some of ESO's problems. That being said, ZOS just added more server capacity to PC/EU and anecdotally there doesn't seem to have been much improvement. Again, not something I'd pin all my hopes on.

And you say no one expects a silver bullet, but I do see plenty of posts on the forums that can be summarized as: "ZOS could kill our performance issues once and for all if they'd only spend more money on [insert my one pet solution here], those greedy folks!" Its far more realistic to acknowledge that ESO's performance issues are too complex and embedded in the game to ever be an easy fix that an armchair dev can find or something that can be solved by just throwing money at it.

lol, you are saying that PC EU's problems come from EU having more players. So I am asking you then why has console performance gone down hill over the last couple years, but even more so in the last 6 months year. Like cyrodil was always laggy in the main campaign, now every campaign is pretty much unplayable most of the time. And everywhere is gets pretty damn laggy too. I cant even do a parse in my house without dealing with input lag.

But I havent seen anything different with players on xbox. Pvp is usually dead except the main campaign, the main areas where people gather dont have tons of people. And plus performance is bad on both consoles, and probably bad on pc na as well, at least in cyrodil.

Sure EU might have it worse and that it might come from more players, but they cant use that excuse for every platform because it doesn't add up at all. Its been happening for too long and too consistently, and slowly declining consistently.

Again, no one wants a silver bullet but zos should have seen performance issues coming when they started doing chapters, adding new zones, crazy new sets, classes, skills, and attracting new players. Its insane to me that in 2020 we have this issue in this game. And that literally a year ago they were working on fixing it, now its worse.

Either way, none of this matters. There is no excuse for having these issues for so long and making any excuse just makes the person doing it look unreliable.

deleted221106-002999

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sure, ZOS knows that.
Its why they just upgraded EU's server capacity.
So they are, in fact, willing to spend money on it.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/58045

Sure, ZOS could probably add yet MORE server capacity after what they just added.

It might help.
It just won't solve ALL the problems in one fell swoop. If you aren't trying to argue that, great! We agree.

Out of curiosity, did you notice any improvements after the recent upgrade?

No, not trying to argue that increased server capacity is a panacea for all game woes but attempting to draw attention to the very distinct qualitative difference of experience between eu and na servers. I play both and I can assure you that, despite twice the latency, na has, for years, consistently been a much smoother and stable gaming experience in pvp and pve, despite recent decline in na - but it's still better.

By zos own admission eu has higher population ergo the differences must be due in part to the population differences. I am aware that claims have been made regarding increasing eu servers by zos. I don't think it's enough because this qualitative difference still persists. What I'd very much like them to do is increase eu server capacity to the point that eu player experience is at parity with na experience - that's all - until/while zos implement whatever performance updates they are allegedly working on. I don't care if it costs them a fortune to do so, we're paying for it in more ways than one but I do understand the 'bang for buck' rationale that I imagine is stopping them from doing so.

And no, I've not noticed a difference since the 'upgrade'.

What I have noticed is that even in delves skills are glitching or simply not working and desynchs are becoming evident. Overland, other than occassional flashing load screens, seems unaffected so I suppose if your game is limited to wandering slowly around overland then the game is fluffy as a kitten.

Cue cute fluffy kitten pic....because this thread now needs to be about fluffy kittens.

edit:typo

VaranisArano

eso_lags wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

As they have explained Pc Eu is their most populated Server. A lot of people play and now a lot more play possibly the most they have ever had so far. Factors including the coming of Greymoor not to mention the Covid 19 keeping people at home. What are they going to do well maybe play Video games and maybe play mmorpgs/mmos and maybe Eso is that game.
So the issue is there is so much more population of players now. That it likely is causing a big strain on the Eu server. Na I think is getting there at times. But no like the Eu. As both servers have seen an increase in player population.
It likely won't get better until a lot of those players move on or till things get back to normal.

Eu has always had problems and I think the server location is a factor or the isp or whatever it is down there. However I think the Covid is making it so much worse then before so hang in there. Once that New World Mmo comes out enough players might go to that and by doing so lesson the strain on the Eu server in the process.

Lol, yeah. "Server population", nice excuse. How exactly does all that "server stress" come into play at 5am in the morning when no one is on and a campaign is barely ticking off one bar?

Sure it's "population".

But okay. If the servers can't handle the numbers they need to upgrade so it can. Just proves that NA is privileged because ZOS is willing to pay for enough server space to handle you all. All you've done by running that argument is prove OP right.

Is this a bad time to mention that ZOS just upgraded the EU servers? It probably is.

Its almost like adding more server capacity isn't the silver bullet that's going to kill EU's performance problems.

I'd also caution against using streamers as representative gameplay when it comes to performance. If theirs wasn't on the good end of the playable spectrum, they wouldn't be streaming. Lots of players on NA experience terrible performance.

Well the population thing was also mentioned by the Devs at one point on the forums as being a big issue when there is so many logged in at one time. As Eu has many more players compared to Na and the time zones are not spread out like the Na which causes a lot of issues that is according to what they posted on the forums one time. They had to put a queue to log into the game for the Eu Player Base at one point until they could upgrade it or something. So yes the Population is a big issue and they had to do such upgrades before.
If Zenimax says its an issue then its an issue. They would know because they own the servers and know what they could handle a lot better then us. So some people might think its an excuse but this is what Zenimax themselves have told us. Its somewhere on the forums if someone wants to dig up that post.

It's an issue.
Its hardly the ONLY issue.
Just look at how parts of their game code have issues with high population. The problems caused by the failed rework of Groupfinder and the guild history after the increased demand from Guildfinder come to mind.

I get that people want to reduce performance to a simple silver bullet: "ZOS could kill our performance issues once and for all if they'd only spend more money on the servers, those greedy folks!"

Its not that simple and they're setting themselves up for bitter disappointment if they think it is.

I asked someone else before and ill ask you again, what about console? If you are going to believe that the problems coming from pc eu are mainly because of a lot of players then what is the excuse for console.

And I dont think anyone is expecting a silver bullet, however its been a year now since they started taking this issue seriously and we have seen things only get worse. And regardless its their fault, if they took performance more serious back in morrowind then things wouldnt be this bad right now. Every new class, different set, zone, etc. and new players, have put a strain on performance, especially in zones where people group up in large numbers such as cydrodil. There is literally no excuse for any of this.

What about console?
Um, console problems prove my point that adding more server capacity is not the SOLE solution to all ESO's performance woes on PC/EU. ESO's got lots of problems that aren't easy fixes.

I'm not sure where you were going with that, to be honest.

That's not to say that added server capacity can't be helpful, as we have seen extreme problems on PC/EU in 2019 when ZOS reached the limit of the server capacity and dramatic improvements when they upgraded. It is still one of the solutions to some of ESO's problems. That being said, ZOS just added more server capacity to PC/EU and anecdotally there doesn't seem to have been much improvement. Again, not something I'd pin all my hopes on.

And you say no one expects a silver bullet, but I do see plenty of posts on the forums that can be summarized as: "ZOS could kill our performance issues once and for all if they'd only spend more money on [insert my one pet solution here], those greedy folks!" Its far more realistic to acknowledge that ESO's performance issues are too complex and embedded in the game to ever be an easy fix that an armchair dev can find or something that can be solved by just throwing money at it.

lol, you are saying that PC EU's problems come from EU having more players. So I am asking you then why has console performance gone down hill over the last couple years, but even more so in the last 6 months year. Like cyrodil was always laggy in the main campaign, now every campaign is pretty much unplayable most of the time. And everywhere is gets pretty damn laggy too. I cant even do a parse in my house without dealing with input lag.

But I havent seen anything different with players on xbox. Pvp is usually dead except the main campaign, the main areas where people gather dont have tons of people. And plus performance is bad on both consoles, and probably bad on pc na as well, at least in cyrodil.

Sure EU might have it worse and that it might come from more players, but they cant use that excuse for every platform because it doesn't add up at all. Its been happening for too long and too consistently, and slowly declining consistently.

Again, no one wants a silver bullet but zos should have seen performance issues coming when they started doing chapters, adding new zones, crazy new sets, classes, skills, and attracting new players. Its insane to me that in 2020 we have this issue in this game. And that literally a year ago they were working on fixing it, now its worse.

Either way, none of this matters. There is no excuse for having these issues for so long and making any excuse just makes the person doing it look unreliable.

I'm still not sure why you keep bringing up console in a discussion of PC/EU or why you think I'm making excuses for anything.

If anything, I'm being extremely pessimistic that ESO's performance issues are complex, pervasive, and not susceptible to quick fixes.


But you are missing the point of everyone who's discussing the server capacity for PC/EU, so I'll spell it out.

PC/EU has the highest population of all the servers and the highest peak population at one time. Its far higher than the EU consoles. Last year, when PC/EU neared its capacity limit, ZOS had to institute login caps so the game could even run. The issues improved after they added more capacity. So we know that Server Capacity does have an effect on performance. Its not a 100% fix, but it does help with capacity related issues which PC/EU is more likely to have given its demographics.

In contrast, PC/NA, which has the same coding for PCs, generally has better performance. Why is that? Well, the most likely culprit is that PC/NA has a better server capacity-to-population ratio.
There are other possible reasons, of course. I suspect ESO's tendency to have whole areas of code break under high demand is playing a part, as we saw with guild history and groupfinder. We've seen again and again that ZOS didn't really plan ahead for the sheer number of players they have in the coding, not just the servers. More server capacity to achieve a better ratio (more than ZOS just added) might help even the playing field between PC/NA and EU, or it might not. It certainly won't solve all the problems.


But, but what about consoles?
What about them?
What do they have to do with the comparison of why PC/EU has worse performance than PC/NA?
That's dragging oranges into a discussion on apples.
Its useful for establishing that ESO has lots of increasing performance issues that won't be solved merely by throwing money at more server capacity, but not actually germain to the discussion about how ZOS is treating the two PC servers.

eso_lags

VaranisArano wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

As they have explained Pc Eu is their most populated Server. A lot of people play and now a lot more play possibly the most they have ever had so far. Factors including the coming of Greymoor not to mention the Covid 19 keeping people at home. What are they going to do well maybe play Video games and maybe play mmorpgs/mmos and maybe Eso is that game.
So the issue is there is so much more population of players now. That it likely is causing a big strain on the Eu server. Na I think is getting there at times. But no like the Eu. As both servers have seen an increase in player population.
It likely won't get better until a lot of those players move on or till things get back to normal.

Eu has always had problems and I think the server location is a factor or the isp or whatever it is down there. However I think the Covid is making it so much worse then before so hang in there. Once that New World Mmo comes out enough players might go to that and by doing so lesson the strain on the Eu server in the process.

Lol, yeah. "Server population", nice excuse. How exactly does all that "server stress" come into play at 5am in the morning when no one is on and a campaign is barely ticking off one bar?

Sure it's "population".

But okay. If the servers can't handle the numbers they need to upgrade so it can. Just proves that NA is privileged because ZOS is willing to pay for enough server space to handle you all. All you've done by running that argument is prove OP right.

Is this a bad time to mention that ZOS just upgraded the EU servers? It probably is.

Its almost like adding more server capacity isn't the silver bullet that's going to kill EU's performance problems.

I'd also caution against using streamers as representative gameplay when it comes to performance. If theirs wasn't on the good end of the playable spectrum, they wouldn't be streaming. Lots of players on NA experience terrible performance.

Well the population thing was also mentioned by the Devs at one point on the forums as being a big issue when there is so many logged in at one time. As Eu has many more players compared to Na and the time zones are not spread out like the Na which causes a lot of issues that is according to what they posted on the forums one time. They had to put a queue to log into the game for the Eu Player Base at one point until they could upgrade it or something. So yes the Population is a big issue and they had to do such upgrades before.
If Zenimax says its an issue then its an issue. They would know because they own the servers and know what they could handle a lot better then us. So some people might think its an excuse but this is what Zenimax themselves have told us. Its somewhere on the forums if someone wants to dig up that post.

It's an issue.
Its hardly the ONLY issue.
Just look at how parts of their game code have issues with high population. The problems caused by the failed rework of Groupfinder and the guild history after the increased demand from Guildfinder come to mind.

I get that people want to reduce performance to a simple silver bullet: "ZOS could kill our performance issues once and for all if they'd only spend more money on the servers, those greedy folks!"

Its not that simple and they're setting themselves up for bitter disappointment if they think it is.

I asked someone else before and ill ask you again, what about console? If you are going to believe that the problems coming from pc eu are mainly because of a lot of players then what is the excuse for console.

And I dont think anyone is expecting a silver bullet, however its been a year now since they started taking this issue seriously and we have seen things only get worse. And regardless its their fault, if they took performance more serious back in morrowind then things wouldnt be this bad right now. Every new class, different set, zone, etc. and new players, have put a strain on performance, especially in zones where people group up in large numbers such as cydrodil. There is literally no excuse for any of this.

What about console?
Um, console problems prove my point that adding more server capacity is not the SOLE solution to all ESO's performance woes on PC/EU. ESO's got lots of problems that aren't easy fixes.

I'm not sure where you were going with that, to be honest.

That's not to say that added server capacity can't be helpful, as we have seen extreme problems on PC/EU in 2019 when ZOS reached the limit of the server capacity and dramatic improvements when they upgraded. It is still one of the solutions to some of ESO's problems. That being said, ZOS just added more server capacity to PC/EU and anecdotally there doesn't seem to have been much improvement. Again, not something I'd pin all my hopes on.

And you say no one expects a silver bullet, but I do see plenty of posts on the forums that can be summarized as: "ZOS could kill our performance issues once and for all if they'd only spend more money on [insert my one pet solution here], those greedy folks!" Its far more realistic to acknowledge that ESO's performance issues are too complex and embedded in the game to ever be an easy fix that an armchair dev can find or something that can be solved by just throwing money at it.

lol, you are saying that PC EU's problems come from EU having more players. So I am asking you then why has console performance gone down hill over the last couple years, but even more so in the last 6 months year. Like cyrodil was always laggy in the main campaign, now every campaign is pretty much unplayable most of the time. And everywhere is gets pretty damn laggy too. I cant even do a parse in my house without dealing with input lag.

But I havent seen anything different with players on xbox. Pvp is usually dead except the main campaign, the main areas where people gather dont have tons of people. And plus performance is bad on both consoles, and probably bad on pc na as well, at least in cyrodil.

Sure EU might have it worse and that it might come from more players, but they cant use that excuse for every platform because it doesn't add up at all. Its been happening for too long and too consistently, and slowly declining consistently.

Again, no one wants a silver bullet but zos should have seen performance issues coming when they started doing chapters, adding new zones, crazy new sets, classes, skills, and attracting new players. Its insane to me that in 2020 we have this issue in this game. And that literally a year ago they were working on fixing it, now its worse.

Either way, none of this matters. There is no excuse for having these issues for so long and making any excuse just makes the person doing it look unreliable.

I'm still not sure why you keep bringing up console in a discussion of PC/EU or why you think I'm making excuses for anything.

If anything, I'm being extremely pessimistic that ESO's performance issues are complex, pervasive, and not susceptible to quick fixes.


But you are missing the point of everyone who's discussing the server capacity for PC/EU, so I'll spell it out.

PC/EU has the highest population of all the servers and the highest peak population at one time. Its far higher than the EU consoles. Last year, when PC/EU neared its capacity limit, ZOS had to institute login caps so the game could even run. The issues improved after they added more capacity. So we know that Server Capacity does have an effect on performance. Its not a 100% fix, but it does help with capacity related issues which PC/EU is more likely to have given its demographics.

In contrast, PC/NA, which has the same coding for PCs, generally has better performance. Why is that? Well, the most likely culprit is that PC/NA has a better server capacity-to-population ratio.
There are other possible reasons, of course. I suspect ESO's tendency to have whole areas of code break under high demand is playing a part, as we saw with guild history and groupfinder. We've seen again and again that ZOS didn't really plan ahead for the sheer number of players they have in the coding, not just the servers. More server capacity to achieve a better ratio (more than ZOS just added) might help even the playing field between PC/NA and EU, or it might not. It certainly won't solve all the problems.


But, but what about consoles?
What about them?
What do they have to do with the comparison of why PC/EU has worse performance than PC/NA?
That's dragging oranges into a discussion on apples.
Its useful for establishing that ESO has lots of increasing performance issues that won't be solved merely by throwing money at more server capacity, but not actually germain to the discussion about how ZOS is treating the two PC servers.

Thank you for explaining the obvious, but I think you are the one missing the point. What I was saying is that regardless of player count between PC NA/EU every platform is dealing with awful performance. PC NA seems to work best and PC EU seems to be worse, although I dont see many people talking about console EU/NA specifically. Im sure plenty do, but I know for a fact PS4 and xbox NA are performing like trash.

So clearly there is a problem at the core of the game. Just like some other people have said , if its player population then why does it happen when the game is dead? Regardless we can agree to disagree. But thats why I said "what about console" because its just as bad on console as it is on EU, at least in cyrodil. I dont think over all it is just as bad outside of cyrodil (from what I have heard from EU players), but still pretty damn bad.

Regardless I think this is a bad excuse from zos. Player count matters for sure. In any zone in this game where players group up in large amounts, there will be lag. This shines in cyrodil, of course, especially with ques. Im not sure why they even bothered to make this game if this was going to be the case, but this is what we have.

So while the game lags worse when there are large amounts of people on it still has massive performance issues when its dead in certain zones, for no reason. This is why I said its a bad excuse from zos and whoever makes the argument. Its one thing to say its a part of the problem, its another to say it is THE problem. But apparently thats not what you're saying. Because if it was just player count then I wouldnt be having abysmal performance, on xbox, at 5am, in a dead campaign, in the middle of nowhere, on a wednesday night.

Oh and to answer your last question, it has to do with this discussion because I say it does. If you dont like it dont read it or dont respond. Like I said, I was comparing it to console because PC NA seems to run the best and everything else, including console, seems to run like ***. At least in my experience.

VaranisArano

eso_lags wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

As they have explained Pc Eu is their most populated Server. A lot of people play and now a lot more play possibly the most they have ever had so far. Factors including the coming of Greymoor not to mention the Covid 19 keeping people at home. What are they going to do well maybe play Video games and maybe play mmorpgs/mmos and maybe Eso is that game.
So the issue is there is so much more population of players now. That it likely is causing a big strain on the Eu server. Na I think is getting there at times. But no like the Eu. As both servers have seen an increase in player population.
It likely won't get better until a lot of those players move on or till things get back to normal.

Eu has always had problems and I think the server location is a factor or the isp or whatever it is down there. However I think the Covid is making it so much worse then before so hang in there. Once that New World Mmo comes out enough players might go to that and by doing so lesson the strain on the Eu server in the process.

Lol, yeah. "Server population", nice excuse. How exactly does all that "server stress" come into play at 5am in the morning when no one is on and a campaign is barely ticking off one bar?

Sure it's "population".

But okay. If the servers can't handle the numbers they need to upgrade so it can. Just proves that NA is privileged because ZOS is willing to pay for enough server space to handle you all. All you've done by running that argument is prove OP right.

Is this a bad time to mention that ZOS just upgraded the EU servers? It probably is.

Its almost like adding more server capacity isn't the silver bullet that's going to kill EU's performance problems.

I'd also caution against using streamers as representative gameplay when it comes to performance. If theirs wasn't on the good end of the playable spectrum, they wouldn't be streaming. Lots of players on NA experience terrible performance.

Well the population thing was also mentioned by the Devs at one point on the forums as being a big issue when there is so many logged in at one time. As Eu has many more players compared to Na and the time zones are not spread out like the Na which causes a lot of issues that is according to what they posted on the forums one time. They had to put a queue to log into the game for the Eu Player Base at one point until they could upgrade it or something. So yes the Population is a big issue and they had to do such upgrades before.
If Zenimax says its an issue then its an issue. They would know because they own the servers and know what they could handle a lot better then us. So some people might think its an excuse but this is what Zenimax themselves have told us. Its somewhere on the forums if someone wants to dig up that post.

It's an issue.
Its hardly the ONLY issue.
Just look at how parts of their game code have issues with high population. The problems caused by the failed rework of Groupfinder and the guild history after the increased demand from Guildfinder come to mind.

I get that people want to reduce performance to a simple silver bullet: "ZOS could kill our performance issues once and for all if they'd only spend more money on the servers, those greedy folks!"

Its not that simple and they're setting themselves up for bitter disappointment if they think it is.

I asked someone else before and ill ask you again, what about console? If you are going to believe that the problems coming from pc eu are mainly because of a lot of players then what is the excuse for console.

And I dont think anyone is expecting a silver bullet, however its been a year now since they started taking this issue seriously and we have seen things only get worse. And regardless its their fault, if they took performance more serious back in morrowind then things wouldnt be this bad right now. Every new class, different set, zone, etc. and new players, have put a strain on performance, especially in zones where people group up in large numbers such as cydrodil. There is literally no excuse for any of this.

What about console?
Um, console problems prove my point that adding more server capacity is not the SOLE solution to all ESO's performance woes on PC/EU. ESO's got lots of problems that aren't easy fixes.

I'm not sure where you were going with that, to be honest.

That's not to say that added server capacity can't be helpful, as we have seen extreme problems on PC/EU in 2019 when ZOS reached the limit of the server capacity and dramatic improvements when they upgraded. It is still one of the solutions to some of ESO's problems. That being said, ZOS just added more server capacity to PC/EU and anecdotally there doesn't seem to have been much improvement. Again, not something I'd pin all my hopes on.

And you say no one expects a silver bullet, but I do see plenty of posts on the forums that can be summarized as: "ZOS could kill our performance issues once and for all if they'd only spend more money on [insert my one pet solution here], those greedy folks!" Its far more realistic to acknowledge that ESO's performance issues are too complex and embedded in the game to ever be an easy fix that an armchair dev can find or something that can be solved by just throwing money at it.

lol, you are saying that PC EU's problems come from EU having more players. So I am asking you then why has console performance gone down hill over the last couple years, but even more so in the last 6 months year. Like cyrodil was always laggy in the main campaign, now every campaign is pretty much unplayable most of the time. And everywhere is gets pretty damn laggy too. I cant even do a parse in my house without dealing with input lag.

But I havent seen anything different with players on xbox. Pvp is usually dead except the main campaign, the main areas where people gather dont have tons of people. And plus performance is bad on both consoles, and probably bad on pc na as well, at least in cyrodil.

Sure EU might have it worse and that it might come from more players, but they cant use that excuse for every platform because it doesn't add up at all. Its been happening for too long and too consistently, and slowly declining consistently.

Again, no one wants a silver bullet but zos should have seen performance issues coming when they started doing chapters, adding new zones, crazy new sets, classes, skills, and attracting new players. Its insane to me that in 2020 we have this issue in this game. And that literally a year ago they were working on fixing it, now its worse.

Either way, none of this matters. There is no excuse for having these issues for so long and making any excuse just makes the person doing it look unreliable.

I'm still not sure why you keep bringing up console in a discussion of PC/EU or why you think I'm making excuses for anything.

If anything, I'm being extremely pessimistic that ESO's performance issues are complex, pervasive, and not susceptible to quick fixes.


But you are missing the point of everyone who's discussing the server capacity for PC/EU, so I'll spell it out.

PC/EU has the highest population of all the servers and the highest peak population at one time. Its far higher than the EU consoles. Last year, when PC/EU neared its capacity limit, ZOS had to institute login caps so the game could even run. The issues improved after they added more capacity. So we know that Server Capacity does have an effect on performance. Its not a 100% fix, but it does help with capacity related issues which PC/EU is more likely to have given its demographics.

In contrast, PC/NA, which has the same coding for PCs, generally has better performance. Why is that? Well, the most likely culprit is that PC/NA has a better server capacity-to-population ratio.
There are other possible reasons, of course. I suspect ESO's tendency to have whole areas of code break under high demand is playing a part, as we saw with guild history and groupfinder. We've seen again and again that ZOS didn't really plan ahead for the sheer number of players they have in the coding, not just the servers. More server capacity to achieve a better ratio (more than ZOS just added) might help even the playing field between PC/NA and EU, or it might not. It certainly won't solve all the problems.


But, but what about consoles?
What about them?
What do they have to do with the comparison of why PC/EU has worse performance than PC/NA?
That's dragging oranges into a discussion on apples.
Its useful for establishing that ESO has lots of increasing performance issues that won't be solved merely by throwing money at more server capacity, but not actually germain to the discussion about how ZOS is treating the two PC servers.

Thank you for explaining the obvious, but I think you are the one missing the point. What I was saying is that regardless of player count between PC NA/EU every platform is dealing with awful performance. PC NA seems to work best and PC EU seems to be worse, although I dont see many people talking about console EU/NA specifically. Im sure plenty do, but I know for a fact PS4 and xbox NA are performing like trash.

So clearly there is a problem at the core of the game. Just like some other people have said , if its player population then why does it happen when the game is dead? Regardless we can agree to disagree. But thats why I said "what about console" because its just as bad on console as it is on EU, at least in cyrodil. I dont think over all it is just as bad outside of cyrodil (from what I have heard from EU players), but still pretty damn bad.

Regardless I think this is a bad excuse from zos. Player count matters for sure. In any zone in this game where players group up in large amounts, there will be lag. This shines in cyrodil, of course, especially with ques. Im not sure why they even bothered to make this game if this was going to be the case, but this is what we have.

So while the game lags worse when there are large amounts of people on it still has massive performance issues when its dead in certain zones, for no reason. This is why I said its a bad excuse from zos and whoever makes the argument. Its one thing to say its a part of the problem, its another to say it is THE problem. But apparently thats not what you're saying. Because if it was just player count then I wouldnt be having abysmal performance, on xbox, at 5am, in a dead campaign, in the middle of nowhere, on a wednesday night.

Oh and to answer your last question, it has to do with this discussion because I say it does. If you dont like it dont read it or dont respond. Like I said, I was comparing it to console because PC NA seems to run the best and everything else, including console, seems to run like ***. At least in my experience.

Sounds like we both agree that ESO's performance issues are complex, pervasive, and unlikely to be fixed by any one improvement, such as adding yet more server capacity.


I tend to view Console as separate from PC, since while there's some overlap in issues, the consoles have had a number of console-specific performance problems related to specific recent updates. The comparison to PC is really only useful to identify what's a console vs PC problem with ESO performance (such as the console blue screens). Those just makes it even less likely for there to be any one specific fix for the overall performance issues on every platform.

So adding more server capacity might help PC/EU perform closer to PC/NA, given that we know the server-to-pop ratio is different between them. Its helped in the past, so it's certainly something we know impacts performance, though not the only thing.

Whereas PC vs Console diagnosis is a more complex issue that includes coding, and hardware differences, complicated by problems that have only impacted consoles. Unlike PC/EU, I don't recall any console problems that were specifically called out by ZOS as related to lack of server capacity.

Gythral

ZX81 vs PC-AT

neither is up to the jop, but one is way worse than the other!!!