Worlds First Kyne's Aegis No death, Hard Mode, Speed Run trifecta.

montiferus

daemonor wrote: »

Hiddle wrote: »

PandaPalace wrote: »

I'm fine with balancing for top players but it shouldn't be for pc only. U all have add-ons that let u know when mechanics are happening, when to block, get to change skills/gear/cp with 1 button. These achievements need to be balanced around no add-ons so console players can get a fair shot at them too.

That's actually very true. Add-ons put PC players on a very different footing compared to Console players.

For a comparison:
World's First Godslayer was ~roughly~ one month after Elsweyr released.
Console World's First Godslayer was almost a year after.

Might be that, or might be that console players are generally worse. Just pay attention to all the 1vx pvp videos. How many of those you see on pc compared to xbox? Pulling out of my ass the ratio looks like 1 pc to 10 xbox videos. Or would you flip that upside and say that pc players are worse cause they can't get as many 1vx videos as xbox?

ive played both platforms. PC players on average are demonstably worse.

daemonor

montiferus wrote: »

daemonor wrote: »

Hiddle wrote: »

PandaPalace wrote: »

I'm fine with balancing for top players but it shouldn't be for pc only. U all have add-ons that let u know when mechanics are happening, when to block, get to change skills/gear/cp with 1 button. These achievements need to be balanced around no add-ons so console players can get a fair shot at them too.

That's actually very true. Add-ons put PC players on a very different footing compared to Console players.

For a comparison:
World's First Godslayer was ~roughly~ one month after Elsweyr released.
Console World's First Godslayer was almost a year after.

Might be that, or might be that console players are generally worse. Just pay attention to all the 1vx pvp videos. How many of those you see on pc compared to xbox? Pulling out of my ass the ratio looks like 1 pc to 10 xbox videos. Or would you flip that upside and say that pc players are worse cause they can't get as many 1vx videos as xbox?

ive played both platforms. PC players on average are demonstably worse.

competetive pve and pvp players, not players in general. there's probably way less rpers on consoles, but i find a hard time finding these 5-10 groups of block holding, light attacking spamming, non cc breaking players that are abundant in xbox 1vx pvp videos.

DjMuscleboy02

The worst part of this isn't even that it was done on pts, as several other groups don't seem too far off either. The worst part is that it was almost 14 minutes faster than a speed run requirement and next to no optimization was done. This trial, as it stands, will be completed in less than half the speed run time by week one of release. That is so disheartening for the future of the game.

Amongst the rest of the contradiction from Zenimax on lowering the skill gap as well as the worst performance on any mmo out there, it's really hard to even be excited for what is essentially the most anticipated chapter Eso has ever released.

Czekoludek

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

The worst part of this isn't even that it was done on pts, as several other groups don't seem too far off either. The worst part is that it was almost 14 minutes faster than a speed run requirement and next to no optimization was done. This trial, as it stands, will be completed in less than half the speed run time by week one of release. That is so disheartening for the future of the game.

Amongst the rest of the contradiction from Zenimax on lowering the skill gap as well as the worst performance on any mmo out there, it's really hard to even be excited for what is essentially the most anticipated chapter Eso has ever released.

Do you know how much time this team spend there? If it were a normal group progression with 2-3 raid days, 3 hours each then yes, difficulty seems to low. But here we have group that do KA 6 days per week, probably more then 5 hours per day. 3 weeks of that progression equals to 90 hours (and we speak about top players here). So for normal progression group (with great but not the best players) it would take 10 weeks with 3 days per week, 3 hours per trial day (with assumption that this group would do it in 90 hours like 4D).
It is quite easy to spend all days in one trial and then say on forum that it is too easy. But not all raiders have this amount of time

Nord_Raseri

Disturbed_One wrote: »

MaddPowered wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

ninibini wrote: »

I don't think ZOS should balance content for 0.01% or less of the player base.

ZoS should balance content based on target audience. Trial Hard Modes are targeted at the 1%, so this field should be balanced for them.

Sure, but they're not the 1%. They're the 0.01% or even 0.001%.

It's like balancing the entire economy around Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos and Warren Buffett

The trifecta achievement should be balanced for the "1%". It is supposed to be one of the hardest achievements.

yeah, that's what I agreed to. It's fine balancing for the 1%. But you all are not the 1%.

On ps4 (that's both na and eu) only 0.2%(one fifth of 1%) of the player base have completed both wolfhunter dungeons on vet. That's not even the no death hardmode speed run. Just vet. People still ask me where I got the beast skin and 'Alpha Predator' title, and MHK has been out for over a year and a half.

stileanima

Czekoludek wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

The worst part of this isn't even that it was done on pts, as several other groups don't seem too far off either. The worst part is that it was almost 14 minutes faster than a speed run requirement and next to no optimization was done. This trial, as it stands, will be completed in less than half the speed run time by week one of release. That is so disheartening for the future of the game.

Amongst the rest of the contradiction from Zenimax on lowering the skill gap as well as the worst performance on any mmo out there, it's really hard to even be excited for what is essentially the most anticipated chapter Eso has ever released.

Do you know how much time this team spend there? If it were a normal group progression with 2-3 raid days, 3 hours each then yes, difficulty seems to low. But here we have group that do KA 6 days per week, probably more then 5 hours per day. 3 weeks of that progression equals to 90 hours (and we speak about top players here). So for normal progression group (with great but not the best players) it would take 10 weeks with 3 days per week, 3 hours per trial day (with assumption that this group would do it in 90 hours like 4D).
It is quite easy to spend all days in one trial and then say on forum that it is too easy. But not all raiders have this amount of time

We raid 4 days a week for 3 hours at a time.

Mormo

Congrats!

Calypso589

Like I said before, the time this took (a few weeks) IS FINE. That's about how long it's taken for a raid group to clear new content in any MMO i've ever played.

We, the players, will ALWAYS outsmart the dev's designs and optimize the crap out of the approach.

What matters is if the Trial was designed well enough to be both challenging AND fun.

But if the main criticism by the OP is that it was too easy......then they'll need to remember that that won't be the case for the vast majority of everyone else.

Because even this.....

@stileanima We raid 4 days a week for 3 hours at a time.

......is so much more time spent on it than i'll bet most people have.

Vaoh

I

stileanima wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

PandaPalace wrote: »

I'm fine with balancing for top players but it shouldn't be for pc only. U all have add-ons that let u know when mechanics are happening, when to block, get to change skills/gear/cp with 1 button. These achievements need to be balanced around no add-ons so console players can get a fair shot at them too.

That is true. vKA is one of the easiest DLC trials mechanically, but is has the poorest telegraphs of any content ever released. No-death will be nearly impossible on consoles without any addons.

I disagree with this. Sure, telegraphs for things like how wide/long a conal cleave is or how big a radius the Tidebreaker's Crashing Wave attack has are missing, but the tells that important mechanics are incoming are indicated clearly. When they are performing these attacks, all enemies have pretty exaggerated movements that are easy enough to see once you know what to look for. You will die to these kinds of things for a bit until you figure out where not to stand and when exactly you need to block or dodge, but that's to be expected.

There were plenty of people in 4D who cleared every run up until now without having any mechanic-indicating addons to help them. I don't think console players will have problems being able to tell which mechanics are coming or struggle with being able to prepare for or avoid them.

@stileanima As someone who is on console and might go for the trifecta for vKA, it’s really going to depend on game performance. You have to keep in mind that we have low FPS (sometimes really low), no add-ons to call out any sort of mechanics or gear swap, and overall the game is quite unstable all around. Skills won’t fire, character self-immobilization on casting certain ground DoTs is a factor (you also can’t block when this happens), block sometimes fails unless held for 1sec+, stuck in sprint, constant blue screens/dcs, rez failing, rez locking your character for the full duration unable to take any other action, etc. That’s just a generalized list lol. Point is, all of these issues greatly affect rotations and survivability moreso on console because our performance is abysmal.

When there is an enemy using a one-shot mechanic skill with no telegraph.... well the first thing I think of is vSS Nahviintaas head swipe knockback attack. Sometimes this attack doesn’t animate at all. Sometimes it does animate but it strikes 1-2sec early (the animation is incorrect). In both situations it is rare to not have at least 1 death. When Nahviintaas swipes his head to breathe fire all around the map, there is a telegraph. Even if the attack fails to animate we still can block and survive thanks to the telegraph. Oh and sometimes the invisible adds will show their telegraphs of damage which help you survive until they appear too.

I haven’t seen a ton of gameplay from vKA to know of all the situations in this particular trial, but basically telegraphs tend to be extremely important for console. They help us survive when the game drastically malfunctions. For the most part ofc we can block and survive. But with this game..... bugs are mechanics too

lucky_Sage

No matter how good the players are something wrong if the HM trifecta is done in pts it should take months to get like 6 months when the new zone dlc comes out that has the next arena or trail that’s the difficulty zos should strive for

kind_hero

I'm excited about this new chapter, and I am reading this because it is something that I will most likely never do, even when this content will be old and nerfed

I don't know why people jump at the OP, must be some kind of envy, because most of us would like to get this achievement, but do not have the time, skills, guild, etc to do it. We have different priorities, which is fine. I see the OP much like the olympic althetes. Some of us do sports for pleasure, but others will put everything aside and work the hardest to get to the top. There is no competition between a pro and someone who does a sport just for fun. I don't think that addons mattered so much for this group, I am sure they can pull it off without addons if they want to.

The game should not lose these pro players, but for my playstyle, I hope the normal version of this trial is easy enough for an average player, such as myself

WrathOfInnos

stileanima wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

PandaPalace wrote: »

I'm fine with balancing for top players but it shouldn't be for pc only. U all have add-ons that let u know when mechanics are happening, when to block, get to change skills/gear/cp with 1 button. These achievements need to be balanced around no add-ons so console players can get a fair shot at them too.

That is true. vKA is one of the easiest DLC trials mechanically, but is has the poorest telegraphs of any content ever released. No-death will be nearly impossible on consoles without any addons.

I disagree with this. Sure, telegraphs for things like how wide/long a conal cleave is or how big a radius the Tidebreaker's Crashing Wave attack has are missing, but the tells that important mechanics are incoming are indicated clearly. When they are performing these attacks, all enemies have pretty exaggerated movements that are easy enough to see once you know what to look for. You will die to these kinds of things for a bit until you figure out where not to stand and when exactly you need to block or dodge, but that's to be expected.

There were plenty of people in 4D who cleared every run up until now without having any mechanic-indicating addons to help them. I don't think console players will have problems being able to tell which mechanics are coming or struggle with being able to prepare for or avoid them.

I’ll agree that in many cases it’s the size of the AoE that’s the biggest piece of missing information (Stormcaller AoE, Tidebreaker wave, call lightning on 1st and 2nd bosses, Blood Ball on 3rd boss phase 2). Even things with an area shown have vague borders, like Chaurus Totem poison, exploding adds during 3rd boss rez mechanic, and Sanguine’s Grasp (vAS Storm of the Heavens clone with dark red splotches of unclear size and shape). Even some of the better telegraphs like Instability are not very well defined compared to similar spread mechanics (like Lokkestiiz static), and the damage radius is apparently larger than the particle effect radius.

Others seem to have no indication AFAIK. Like the meteors on 1st and 2nd boss, which could have easily been handled like the meteors in Navi execute (who is it targeting, how large is it, when will it land), or at the very least it could have a ring on the targeted player like Shooting Star or Skoria in PVP. I know we can see the Shaman casting it, but that tells us nothing about where it will land. Same thing for the Raider spear AoEs, which cannot be blocked, and tend to stun right before a tidebreaker one-shot. Speaking of Raiders, their conal attack could easily be telegraphed just like that of the Alkosh’s Fury in Sunspire. Bulwarks get a nice indicator for their frontal cone, but for unknown reasons the Tidebreaker’s frontal cleave is left invisible.

Bloodlines feels pretty unfair too, that + shaped AoE doesn’t have nearly enough of a telegraph for the level of damage it deals. Easy with addons, since you can block and shield it, but with no warning it’s going to cause some deaths. It could easily have a indicator on the ground using the players chosen custom color just like Llothis’ conal attack (never thought I’d be missing this one ) or Lokkestiiz’ strafe.

Anyway, I’d love to run the trial without addons, but IMO there are too many cheap one-shots and missing or unrefined telegraphs. If those were fixed then we could reasonably learn tells without needing to play as defensively, and I could see a reduction in the speed run timer to maybe 25 or 30 minutes. Otherwise it will just be a game of watching addon text notifications, shield spam, and 34 minute achievement runs.

MaddPowered

Vaoh wrote: »

and overall the game is quite unstable all around. Skills won’t fire, character self-immobilization on casting certain ground DoTs is a factor (you also can’t block when this happens), block sometimes fails unless held for 1sec+, stuck in sprint, constant blue screens/dcs, rez failing, rez locking your character for the full duration unable to take any other action, etc. That’s just a generalized list lol

PC has the exact same issues all the time, that is not just a console experience.

Lintashi

How many ppl in this raid were new kind of vamps? This chapter advertised as vampire chapter, so are new vampires viable in trials? I really do not want to cure my healer, but I do not want to gimp my character either.

ItsJustHashtag

Hiddle wrote: »

PandaPalace wrote: »

I'm fine with balancing for top players but it shouldn't be for pc only. U all have add-ons that let u know when mechanics are happening, when to block, get to change skills/gear/cp with 1 button. These achievements need to be balanced around no add-ons so console players can get a fair shot at them too.

That's actually very true. Add-ons put PC players on a very different footing compared to Console players.

For a comparison:
World's First Godslayer was ~roughly~ one month after Elsweyr released.
Console World's First Godslayer was almost a year after.

Add ons isn’t carrying PC that hard. It’s just that better players are pc are carrying PC.

FakeFox

Lintashi wrote: »

How many ppl in this raid were new kind of vamps? This chapter advertised as vampire chapter, so are new vampires viable in trials? I really do not want to cure my healer, but I do not want to gimp my character either.

On the live server healers are vampires for the 10% regen, but since this has basically been reverted into a sustain decrease because of the increased cost to non-vampire skills, being a vampire is detrimental for healers on the PTS unless you might want to use Drain for ultigen.

codierussell

For the people saying that they are beating this because they have addons are crazy. Have you been in or watched any videos on the bosses?? Where will addons help to the point your group is getting no death runs? The reason why Godslayer is extremely hard on console is due to the server instability (my group has numerous disconnects every instance) and the time requirement based on the rendering capabilities of consoles. As well, being able to quick change gear will not change the fact that this speed run was done with an extra 10 minutes to spare.

The people that complain that console has no addons and that is why content is hard for them are people who haven't put in the time to master mechanics. There are still IR GH TTT and godslayer on both consoles so clearly it is possible to do without addons.

Vaoh

MaddPowered wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

and overall the game is quite unstable all around. Skills won’t fire, character self-immobilization on casting certain ground DoTs is a factor (you also can’t block when this happens), block sometimes fails unless held for 1sec+, stuck in sprint, constant blue screens/dcs, rez failing, rez locking your character for the full duration unable to take any other action, etc. That’s just a generalized list lol

PC has the exact same issues all the time, that is not just a console experience.

Yup! I think those issues alone are enough reason for telegraphs tbh. The game is just too buggy. I’d guess our raid lead and/or tank will have to call out every non-telegraphed mechanic in vKA.

Unfortunately the console experience is not the same as the PC experience in ESO FPS and overall game instability are far worse, plus the base game UI+cues (some broken cues) are... difficult lol. I think we are lucky to have two Godslayer groups across four console servers despite 2 of 3 GS runs being less than 10sec from failing.

Luckily it doesn’t seem like Speed Run will be an issue for anyone in Kyne’s Aegis so we can focus more on defensive play. We’ll see once console has had a month or so to progress the trial.

Danksta

Czekoludek wrote: »

MaddPowered wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

MaddPowered wrote: »

caesarvs wrote: »

Impressive for sure...

BUT,

Take off the addons, do this again, so we all can see the "real time" needed to clear those


Congrats!

The only addon we used was Alpha Gear. It is PTS, there are hardly any add-ons that work with the trial (and the one that does exist is unreliable). One addon that swaps gear for you won't make a 13 minute difference.

And yet on your screenshot we can see cmx, hodor and lui probably raid notifier and any addon with skill timers were working so not exactly "only Alpha Gear". I know some of these addons are like standard on pc but consoles have harder job to do without them, no doubt about that

LUI, Reflexes and CMX does not affect the speed or performance of the group. And raid notifier is not updated for KA. I don't understand your argument

It is easier to keep up with rota if you have timers (game without addons have timers too but they are awful and don't help much). Hodor allows groups to perfectly time their colossus so this is an advantage that affects group performance. Cmx is basically a great tool for checking which attacks hits harder, where rota needs to be adjusted, etc. Logs do it better but consoles don't have access to them. Not sure about raid notifier but addons like code combat alerts are already updated to inform about some of the mechanics from new trial (for example tidebreaker weave timer).
Glad that you did trifecta but saying that your team did it without any important addons when we can even see one of essential ones on your screen is pretty weak. Overall I'm intrested of consoles feedback, are they gonna have the same thoughts as your group

The cooldown for major vuln is available in the base game. Might not be as clear as addons but if you're not a potato a decent player then it works fine.

Zelos

MaddPowered wrote: »

4D completed the trifecta tonight. I have lots of feedback to give if a dungeon developer would like to message me privately.
I hope this is not the final version of the trial, as it is kind of sad that the trifecta achievement was achieved on the PTS.

Also the memento we get as a reward is awful. Please change it to something else like a costume, polymorph, skin or mount

I have to say, that ever since I stopped running endgame pve in well... Theives Guild when my guild stopped playing as their was really no challenge for us even in most hard modes. Doesnt seem like the content got much harder sad to say, it's mostly just one shot mechanics it looks like which is never challenging or fun. Also makes 2 healers almost useless. Cant heal from one shot mechanics. Sad.

Vaoh

Is there any video of the trifecta achievement momento?

And tbh I think a mount or polymorph would be more appropriate, or even a special version of the Seaborn skin.

martijnlv40

daemonor wrote: »

Hiddle wrote: »

PandaPalace wrote: »

I'm fine with balancing for top players but it shouldn't be for pc only. U all have add-ons that let u know when mechanics are happening, when to block, get to change skills/gear/cp with 1 button. These achievements need to be balanced around no add-ons so console players can get a fair shot at them too.

That's actually very true. Add-ons put PC players on a very different footing compared to Console players.

For a comparison:
World's First Godslayer was ~roughly~ one month after Elsweyr released.
Console World's First Godslayer was almost a year after.

Might be that, or might be that console players are generally worse. Just pay attention to all the 1vx pvp videos. How many of those you see on pc compared to xbox? Pulling out of my ass the ratio looks like 1 pc to 10 xbox videos. Or would you flip that upside and say that pc players are worse cause they can't get as many 1vx videos as xbox?

Wtf is this statement? Perhaps there is something IN the console version that makes performance of the people playing worse, not something OUT of the console version, such as the players themselves. This is the worst generalization I've seen in months.

montiferus

martijnlv40 wrote: »

daemonor wrote: »

Hiddle wrote: »

PandaPalace wrote: »

I'm fine with balancing for top players but it shouldn't be for pc only. U all have add-ons that let u know when mechanics are happening, when to block, get to change skills/gear/cp with 1 button. These achievements need to be balanced around no add-ons so console players can get a fair shot at them too.

That's actually very true. Add-ons put PC players on a very different footing compared to Console players.

For a comparison:
World's First Godslayer was ~roughly~ one month after Elsweyr released.
Console World's First Godslayer was almost a year after.

Might be that, or might be that console players are generally worse. Just pay attention to all the 1vx pvp videos. How many of those you see on pc compared to xbox? Pulling out of my ass the ratio looks like 1 pc to 10 xbox videos. Or would you flip that upside and say that pc players are worse cause they can't get as many 1vx videos as xbox?

Wtf is this statement? Perhaps there is something IN the console version that makes performance of the people playing worse, not something OUT of the console version, such as the players themselves. This is the worst generalization I've seen in months.

The other amusing thing is he is basing it off of watching youtube videos. Thats the kind of concrete data point im looking for.

I've actually played both.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Congrats!! But waiting a whole year for more content... Yikes!

DropDeadGorgeous

Did anyone in the group use any of the following?
- Eviscerate skill
- Blood Frenzy skill
- Thrassian Stranglers

If yes, how was the experience? Was it like a "kiss", or more like a "curse"?