Maintenance for the week of November 4:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 6, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)

QoL for transmuting would be nice with proposed impen changes

MincVinyl
MincVinyl
✭✭✭✭✭
Two main issues:
  1. We can only store 200 geodes....making it tedious having to log in and out of characters to use the geodes
  2. Currently the best farming method is to get campaign rewards.....Even as a 6 year pvp vet farming rewards on 18 toons and then waiting a month is just terrible. Some people might only have a few toons to even pvp with. By the time a player like that farms to trait change 7-14 pieces of gear we will likely be on the next patch anyways. Either add in more ways to get stones or reduce the cost of transmuting down to ~10-20 or so. As much as I like spending 2-3 days farming resource and keep ticks on 18 toons just to wait a month is painful. If it is painful for me i can imagine it is worse for players that are newer and trying to set up multiple toons with gear.
  • notyuu
    notyuu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Crystals are not meant to replace farming for the right gear trait, they are meant to supplement it.

    i.e.
    you farm the right trait OR transmute via crystals, whichever comes first.

    it is NOT
    Get item then farm crystals for trait


    Why?
    simple, it keeps people playing content.
  • MincVinyl
    MincVinyl
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    notyuu wrote: »
    Crystals are not meant to replace farming for the right gear trait, they are meant to supplement it.

    i.e.
    you farm the right trait OR transmute via crystals, whichever comes first.

    it is NOT
    Get item then farm crystals for trait


    Why?
    simple, it keeps people playing content.

    Right, I'm just surprised I have not seen a thread about other people complaining yet. Although I suppose there is always a lot to complain about each patch. Imo if zos wanted geodes to be a way for people to play content and buy crowns/dlc, they would have put geode drops behind the newer dungeons/trials or even just put them in the crown store/crates.

    Edit: Also it is not
    get item then farm crystals for trait

    it is
    have item then have to farm crystals because of the change

    Otherwise you are correct that its purpose originally was to avoid players having to farm months on end for one item to have the perfect trait. However this is not the case for most people now... I am not going to refarm regold retristat gear for 18 toons. It is also worth it to mention each toon does not have only one set of gear for pvp, which means even more months to wait to play on some of those.
    Edited by MincVinyl on May 13, 2020 12:10AM
  • Taleof2Cities
    Taleof2Cities
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    At the very least you know the patch drops in two weeks, @MincVinyl ... so there’s still time to get your campaign award farm done.

    But, @notyuu is right.

    Transmute stones aren’t meant to substitute running content for gear.
  • eovogtb16_ESO
    eovogtb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    You can't even farm for transmutes because cyrodiil is practically unplayable.
  • Kadoozy
    Kadoozy
    ✭✭✭✭
    People have proposed the idea before, it is just unlikely that ZOS will change their mind because it keeps people grinding and paying. Though personally, I would keep paying either way so I'd prefer a bit more QOL too.

    Honestly when big gear and trait changes happen it makes me wanna stop playing more than it makes me want to regrind though. Just makes it unenjoyable
    Edited by Kadoozy on May 13, 2020 2:25AM
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    What's the big deal? Suppose you come to wish an armor piece weren't impen -- how much will you really gain by transmuting it? Is that enough to swing the outcome of a fight one way or the other?
  • Hotdog_23
    Hotdog_23
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I just wish BG's would also drop a 50 geode at the end of 30 days for 25K AP gain as well. After all PVP is PVP.
  • Fruity_Ninja
    Fruity_Ninja
    ✭✭✭
    What would be really nice- if we could just put the Geode's in our bank. That way we can farm them and store them for when we need them.

    That in itself would be a massive QoL improvement.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    I just wish BG's would also drop a 50 geode at the end of 30 days for 25K AP gain as well. After all PVP is PVP.

    Rewards wise, BGs are severely lacking. They have outfits which are nice, but once you get those there’s nothing to it any more. And they are only bound you can’t sell them and stop dropping once you have them.

    The AP return is horrendous compared to Cyro. You spend 5-10 mins in the queue and then a 15min match to maybe make 10-12k AP. You can easily double that or more in Cyro if you take part in some sieges and keep flips. And AP is valuable since you can buy Golden vendor stuff or Deadly/ElfBane pieces to sell.

    Crystals wise it’s even worse. You play a random game to get a crystal a day. But you need to finish in top 2 for that and sometimes it take 2-3 games to get it. Probably on average 30 mins a day for 30 crystals a month. Whereas You could spend 30 mins in Cyro and that’s enough to bag you 50 crystals for the month. Otherwise you have to get into the BG leaderboards which literally means hundreds of games on the same toon.

    And money wise as well, BGs are no CP and constant action so you’re chugging pots at a much higher rate than in Cyro. It’s more expensive and has worse rewards. The need to up them.
    EU | PC | AD
  • Hotdog_23
    Hotdog_23
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    I just wish BG's would also drop a 50 geode at the end of 30 days for 25K AP gain as well. After all PVP is PVP.

    Rewards wise, BGs are severely lacking. They have outfits which are nice, but once you get those there’s nothing to it any more. And they are only bound you can’t sell them and stop dropping once you have them.

    The AP return is horrendous compared to Cyro. You spend 5-10 mins in the queue and then a 15min match to maybe make 10-12k AP. You can easily double that or more in Cyro if you take part in some sieges and keep flips. And AP is valuable since you can buy Golden vendor stuff or Deadly/ElfBane pieces to sell.

    Crystals wise it’s even worse. You play a random game to get a crystal a day. But you need to finish in top 2 for that and sometimes it take 2-3 games to get it. Probably on average 30 mins a day for 30 crystals a month. Whereas You could spend 30 mins in Cyro and that’s enough to bag you 50 crystals for the month. Otherwise you have to get into the BG leaderboards which literally means hundreds of games on the same toon.

    And money wise as well, BGs are no CP and constant action so you’re chugging pots at a much higher rate than in Cyro. It’s more expensive and has worse rewards. The need to up them.

    I couldn’t agree more.
  • MincVinyl
    MincVinyl
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    What would be really nice- if we could just put the Geode's in our bank. That way we can farm them and store them for when we need them.

    That in itself would be a massive QoL improvement.

    Well what would be better is if they removed the geodes all together. instead they go straight into your currency. Then they cut the cost for transmuting down to 10-20. This means you cannot endlessly stack geodes, so you have to actively use them as you play content. The grind for them is less waiting time-wise overall, but it still requires you to continue to play content after you transmute. Eso+ is even more necessary since you cant just keep infinite geodes. Then it would just be a matter of adding different ways to actually farm them which rewards people playing content...not farming resources in pvp for a few days then waiting a month. Zos would make more money if it rewarded people playing the new dungeons/pledges/trials instead of waiting for what feels like an allowance.
  • Nestor
    Nestor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    MincVinyl wrote: »

    Right, I'm just surprised I have not seen a thread about other people complaining yet.

    There are dozens of threads complaining about the 200 Stone Limit.

    However, nothing is stopping you from hoarding the Geodes that contain the stones.....

    Well, your inventory capacity might, but that is a choice you have to make.

    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • iCaliban
    iCaliban
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    notyuu wrote: »
    Crystals are not meant to replace farming for the right gear trait, they are meant to supplement it.

    i.e.
    you farm the right trait OR transmute via crystals, whichever comes first.

    it is NOT
    Get item then farm crystals for trait


    Why?
    simple, it keeps people playing content.

    A lot of gear does not drop in pvp traits. Examples include: triune, infused jewelry. Nirn weapons as well.

    This isnt a matter of oh go farm gear! 7 armor pieces per build, 350 stones, multiplied by lets say a reasonable number of active pvp classes 4. 1600 stones or dozens of hours of grinding for new traits? No thanks
  • IonicKai
    IonicKai
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah I think the issue with transmutation is that they then introduced jewelry crafting but made it so that jewelry doesn't drop in the new traits. That means that builds for PvE and PvP both need to transmute 3+ pieces of gear. Also people hate how bad the rng grind is I think if they cut the cost of transmutation in half that would be a fair compromise. It's still a grind just slightly less of one which matched the original philosophy behind transmutation in the first place.
  • Atherakhia
    Atherakhia
    ✭✭✭✭
    It would be nice if the cap was increased/removed at the least. I have like 40+ of these things spread across multiple characters. I often transmute something I don't need to make room. I then have to go around to all my characters and use them.

    Please either:
    1.) Remove the cap of increase it to 500+
    2.) Allow these things to stack so they don't take up eleventybillion inventory slots spread around multiple characters.
    3.) Allow us to bank them so we can at least consolidate them on a single character/bank.
  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    notyuu wrote: »
    Crystals are not meant to replace farming for the right gear trait, they are meant to supplement it.

    i.e.
    you farm the right trait OR transmute via crystals, whichever comes first.

    it is NOT
    Get item then farm crystals for trait


    Why?
    simple, it keeps people playing content.

    Intention and ingame reality differ greatly in that regard - for anyone who wants it to be crystals are the de factor method to get any desired trait unless you drop the right trait on the first drop and have been for a long time (and have always been for jewelry). This is over 6 months old and all of those hold 50 stones:

    lR8aYeD.png

    The only thing the current system achieves is making it harder for new players or casual players to catch up while being mildly annoying to manage for long term players.

    They failed to achieve what they wanted with the system. The way it currently works also is annoying for anyone using it. Changing it would only benefit everyone.
    Edited by Derra on May 14, 2020 4:16PM
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • MincVinyl
    MincVinyl
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    There has not been a time since clockwork where I have farmed an item for 7 months just to get the wrong trait and decided that it would be equivalent to go farm for the right trait instead of transmuting. Both farming and getting transmutes are horribly designed, as horrible as transmuting is designed it is still the go to method compared to farming gear.

    I mean if you need a drop from a dungeon you pretty much have to actively grief newer player's dungeon experience by running through the dungeon. Either that or make each dungeon run take 10x more time.
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Okay lets be clear and correct here, it is 100 not 200. 200 is bonus advantage people get for paying monthly. 100 is the intended value by ZoS. So by all definitions they intended to make transmutation cap stupidly low, punishing and annoying. Just putting it here, good luck asking them to make it better :)
  • Taleof2Cities
    Taleof2Cities
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »
    notyuu wrote: »
    Crystals are not meant to replace farming for the right gear trait, they are meant to supplement it.

    i.e.
    you farm the right trait OR transmute via crystals, whichever comes first.

    it is NOT
    Get item then farm crystals for trait


    Why?
    simple, it keeps people playing content.

    Intention and ingame reality differ greatly in that regard - for anyone who wants it to be crystals are the de factor method to get any desired trait unless you drop the right trait on the first drop and have been for a long time (and have always been for jewelry). This is over 6 months old and all of those hold 50 stones:

    The only thing the current system achieves is making it harder for new players or casual players to catch up while being mildly annoying to manage for long term players.

    They failed to achieve what they wanted with the system. The way it currently works also is annoying for anyone using it. Changing it would only benefit everyone.

    The system is working fine, @Derra.

    The more geodes you store in inventory, the more annoying it gets. That's an intentional mechanic.

    You may not like it ... but that doesn't mean it's a failed system.

    Edited by Taleof2Cities on May 14, 2020 8:17PM
  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »
    notyuu wrote: »
    Crystals are not meant to replace farming for the right gear trait, they are meant to supplement it.

    i.e.
    you farm the right trait OR transmute via crystals, whichever comes first.

    it is NOT
    Get item then farm crystals for trait


    Why?
    simple, it keeps people playing content.

    Intention and ingame reality differ greatly in that regard - for anyone who wants it to be crystals are the de factor method to get any desired trait unless you drop the right trait on the first drop and have been for a long time (and have always been for jewelry). This is over 6 months old and all of those hold 50 stones:

    The only thing the current system achieves is making it harder for new players or casual players to catch up while being mildly annoying to manage for long term players.

    They failed to achieve what they wanted with the system. The way it currently works also is annoying for anyone using it. Changing it would only benefit everyone.

    The system is working fine, @Derra.

    The more geodes you store in inventory, the more annoying it gets. That's an intentional mechanic.

    You may not like it ... but that doesn't mean it's a failed system.

    The system failed in terms not being the main source of getting a correct trait item. It is for anyone who wants it to be.
    I think this is very clear in my post.

    Storing geodes is a nonissue with 4400sth spaces available. I´ll happily store 500+ geodes aswell.
    It´s mildly annoying to relog between mule and retrait char when traiting 10 items - yes.
    Does that mean people won´t retrait everything they get with an incorrect trait - no.
    Why is that? Getting transmute crystals in absolutely abdundant amounts is way easier/cheaper than getting correct trait items.

    So let me be clear again:
    The system failed spectecularly in not being the main source (or only in case of jewelry) of getting a desired trait. *1
    That is a fact.
    That goes clearly against ZOS communicated design intention of it only being complementary in aquiring traits.
    The part of it being annoying to use is a relic of that original design intention - which failed - and now only makes the user experience worse but doesn´t achieve anything else. This is bad game design 101.

    *1 For long term and non casual players. This puts new players and casuals at a significant disadvantage regarding time and effort needed to gear correctly - actively working against ZOS raising the floor design decision. Basically it is an anti catchup mechanic right now - which is imo exactly the design an mmo 5 years in does not need.

    I won´t gain anything from changing the system (except if you think i really care about the 2 minutes relogging). I´m advocating to change it bc i think it will make the game better.
    Do i think they will change it? Probably not - because they intend the game to be an annoying grind fest for new players. Doesn´t do any harm to remind people at times.
    Edited by Derra on May 15, 2020 8:34AM
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »

    lR8aYeD.png

    Can you sell me some? I decided I want to do PvE again and I'm like 800-900 crystals short :'(

    EU | PC | AD
  • Banana
    Banana
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »

    lR8aYeD.png

    Can you sell me some? I decided I want to do PvE again and I'm like 800-900 crystals short :'(

    I'll take some to. Just getting to tier 1 on 2 characters once a month for me is a nightmare. Especially at the moment with the *** performance
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    MincVinyl wrote: »
    I mean if you need a drop from a dungeon you pretty much have to actively grief newer player's dungeon experience by running through the dungeon. Either that or make each dungeon run take 10x more time.

    What?
    If you can't be patient enough to not sprint ahead of your groupmates, have you tried the obvious solution to grinding efficiently without being a jerk?

    Form a pre-made farming group from your guildmates, friends, or even randoms from zone. You can have a full group of CP 160+ who're happy to sprint through the dungeon with you and who will share the gear you need. That makes for much faster runs and less runs overall. It works great every time I've done it for guildies.

    It'll just take a little more effort on your part than hitting the specific normal dungeon queue and hoping for a decent random group who won't care that you've left them in the dust.
  • xXMeowMeowXx
    xXMeowMeowXx
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    MincVinyl wrote: »
    Two main issues:
    1. We can only store 200 geodes....making it tedious having to log in and out of characters to use the geodes
    2. Currently the best farming method is to get campaign rewards.....Even as a 6 year pvp vet farming rewards on 18 toons and then waiting a month is just terrible. Some people might only have a few toons to even pvp with. By the time a player like that farms to trait change 7-14 pieces of gear we will likely be on the next patch anyways. Either add in more ways to get stones or reduce the cost of transmuting down to ~10-20 or so. As much as I like spending 2-3 days farming resource and keep ticks on 18 toons just to wait a month is painful. If it is painful for me i can imagine it is worse for players that are newer and trying to set up multiple toons with gear.

    It is 100 transmute crystals without eso+ that you can stack, 200 is only with eso+.

    Either way ZOS should allow us to stack mooooore. Upping the amount a player can carry would be a nice QOL change.

    I don’t see a problem with the quantity but I mainly PvP.
  • chrisw_63_ESO
    chrisw_63_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    You can't even farm for transmutes because cyrodiil is practically unplayable.

    Yes you can farm them. All you have to do is join a campaign. Once the campaign is over, you get an award chest that includes transmute crystals. Also, the simple scouting missions often give you a geode once a day (if you get one that's all the way across the map, abandon it and get another until you get one close to your Keeps). Battlegrounds and Undaunted daily rewards give you one. IIRC, the daily random dungeon gives you one, too. If you have more than one character above 45, farming transmutes is more than possible. It's easy.
  • ItsJustHashtag
    ItsJustHashtag
    ✭✭✭✭
    At bare minimum make it so they can be deposited in bank and stacked
  • jaws343
    jaws343
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    notyuu wrote: »
    Crystals are not meant to replace farming for the right gear trait, they are meant to supplement it.

    i.e.
    you farm the right trait OR transmute via crystals, whichever comes first.

    it is NOT
    Get item then farm crystals for trait


    Why?
    simple, it keeps people playing content.

    I'd love to know how successful you have been farming jewelry in Infused and Bloodthirsty traits.

    Ever since Jewelry crafting was implemented, the Transmute cap became a problem.
  • MincVinyl
    MincVinyl
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    MincVinyl wrote: »
    Two main issues:
    1. We can only store 200 geodes....making it tedious having to log in and out of characters to use the geodes
    2. Currently the best farming method is to get campaign rewards.....Even as a 6 year pvp vet farming rewards on 18 toons and then waiting a month is just terrible. Some people might only have a few toons to even pvp with. By the time a player like that farms to trait change 7-14 pieces of gear we will likely be on the next patch anyways. Either add in more ways to get stones or reduce the cost of transmuting down to ~10-20 or so. As much as I like spending 2-3 days farming resource and keep ticks on 18 toons just to wait a month is painful. If it is painful for me i can imagine it is worse for players that are newer and trying to set up multiple toons with gear.

    It is 100 transmute crystals without eso+ that you can stack, 200 is only with eso+.

    Either way ZOS should allow us to stack mooooore. Upping the amount a player can carry would be a nice QOL change.

    I don’t see a problem with the quantity but I mainly PvP.

    I know and tbh i can't see how people play eso without eso+. The only person I know who still plays the game without paying for eso+ got it for free for a lifetime because zos *** up his purchase somehow. Personally I don't have issues actually getting transmute stones. I have plenty from getting rewards from the previous double 30 day farm, but plenty of people do not have the same amount of time that I do.

    I still feel like the excuse that the system was made to force people to keep logging in is weak in terms of game creation. If the game has to turn to the farmville route to inflate their player numbers, it doesn't speak well for the longevity of the playerbase. Ideally the game creators should have these systems allow you to enjoy the content available. Instead of spending the majority of your time grinding to be able to play/keep up with the content.
  • Taleof2Cities
    Taleof2Cities
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »

    The system failed in terms not being the main source of getting a correct trait item. It is for anyone who wants it to be.
    I think this is very clear in my post.

    *1 For long term and non casual players. This puts new players and casuals at a significant disadvantage regarding time and effort needed to gear correctly - actively working against ZOS raising the floor design decision. Basically it is an anti catchup mechanic right now - which is imo exactly the design an mmo 5 years in does not need.

    No, @Derra, you are totally wrong about the developers' intended purpose of the Transmute System.

    I'm going to put it boldface so that anyone reading the thread understands its philosophy:

    The Transmute System is intended to be a "finish line" for players who properly run content ... but don't initially get gear drops in their preferred trait.

    The Transmute System is not intended to be the main source of getting a correct trait item.


    Sure, veteran players have more time in the game to build up a few geodes in inventory. Like yourself, those players have put in the requisite time to have that advantage. New players and casuals really don't have much need for end game gear that is perfectly traited ... since they are not running those types of content.

    MincVinyl wrote: »
    Instead of spending the majority of your time grinding to be able to play/keep up with the content.

    When players purchase any MMO, @MincVinyl, they already know going in there's an inherent amount of grind involved ... before clicking "play". There's nothing hidden or secret about that aspect of the genre.

    Edited by Taleof2Cities on May 15, 2020 4:25PM
  • MincVinyl
    MincVinyl
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »
    MincVinyl wrote: »
    Instead of spending the majority of your time grinding to be able to play/keep up with the content.

    When players purchase any MMO, @MincVinyl, they already know going in there's an inherent amount of grind involved ... before clicking "play". There's nothing hidden or secret about that aspect of the genre.

    Wasn't saying they are trying to hide it, it is just *** game design and a sad way to inflate their player count. The mechanic isn't even to get players to play different content, it is to literally log into cyro and farm resource ticks. Which is why I say little thought even went into the system. If people want to claim " uhh it is so they make more money from forcing players to log in" then why wouldn't they design the system around the purchasable content. If it truly was to make money they would do dlc bonuses to get transmutes or irresistible rewards for completing new content.

    By no means would I ever agree that having the best way to farm geodes in cyro+waiting a month is the best way for them to make money. If you want to think it is some secret hidden plan to keep players coming back feel free, but there are way simpler and better ways for them to capitalize on it if their goal was to keep players constantly playing/buying new content over the long run.
    Edited by MincVinyl on May 15, 2020 5:25PM
Sign In or Register to comment.