Trolling Inside Game

Urvoth

It’s pretty easy to /ignore people that you find toxic. Toxicity is pretty subjective, so it’s better if individual players just ignore/leave/block, etc. people that they think are toxic. The game is big enough to find new people to play with very easily.

Sange13

Sgrug wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@Earthewen

People know when they are being offensive.

No, not anymore. Kinda hard to tell when just about anything and everything could be considered offensive enough to someone to warrant action of some kind.

QFT

Anything can get you banned or called in for harassment, there is literally no way to know anymore what offends someone. Here is the kicker, if I give an honest opinion using plain language with no colorful comments of why that is, my post will still be reported by numerous offended individuals and I will get suspended.

Welcome to the culture of the perpetually aggrieved.

Used to be we would stay sticks and stone can break my bones but names will never hurt me. Now just a look causes some to go fetal and cry assault

You don't need any more evidence of this than their definition of "baiting"--or the existence of a rule against it:

Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.

Destai

ZOS_FelipeF wrote: »

​Greetings,

We had to remove some posts as it violated our rules involving baiting and bashing. Please be sure to keep discussions civil and constructive​. Upon reading some of your comments, we again remind everyone that if your feedback is directed towards a specific person/group of people in a derogatory manner (whether intentional or not), it stops being objective and will need to be moderated.

For example "I do not like the animation cancelling ability in the game" versus "How could the devs possibly think animation cancelling should remain the way it is, I mean do they even think?".

If you have any questions about the actions being taken, please take a moment to review our community rules here.

Agreed.

That being said, I think we'd see less of the latter example if there were more dialogue from ZOS on the hot issues.

Raudgrani

Earthewen wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Sange13 wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

The forums are policed at regular intervals, but the posts, unlike game dialog, don't go away in a few minutes. In order to police chat they would have to have someone logged in that can read every zone, every minute of every day. So maybe it's more unreasonable expectations?

I'm not even going to go into what's considered toxic, because someone could consider "Hey man, what's up" as toxic, while someone else, like me, who grew up with "*** you" as the same thing as good morning, may not see anything toxic or offensive.

Well, there should be an option to report specific comments "in-game", just easy like that. I'm not a very sensitive guy, and I'm against this constant tolerance this and respect that, be kind there and be friendly there - but some people are just too much. Being very personal and hostile, or like political extremism in area chats etc. Some people don't want to think of and see all that, that's even why some people even play the game I guess.

Absolutely not. Reporting should *only* before breaking ToS or cheating. Period. Everything else is interpersonal BS and should be handled at that level.

Well, threats, blatant racism and bullying IS "break ToS". So I don't really know what you are trying to say? It's not like it's helping anyone in any way if some people spam a hundred lines of same racist slurs, or go on and on about how someone sucks. Maybe not so usual in PVE areas, but in PVP it's not been uncommon. For some reason a few AD guys had the idea that I was non-white, and started some weird racist bullying posse towards me in EP area chat in Cyrodiil. I mean wtf., it's just wrong in every imaginable way, let alone the fact that I'm as white as a native Swede can ever get.

But that's "interpersonal" according to you, I suppose?

Just curious as to how you knew that they thought you were non-white? Were you argonian?

I have no idea.

To clarify, I am not non-white. I am a native white Nordic Swede, and I have never spoken about any racial/cultural matters in the game (so I can't have been misunderstood). My characters was even a blonde Nord, and even my gamertag suggest I'm of Nordic origin. But for some reason these AD players (all Germans btw., not that it matters - but it should be easier for them to realize they were wrong) got the impression I wasn't white, and they did their best to let me know how much they did (not) appreciate non-white enemies. Even people I'm not exactly friends with stepped in and was like "Well, that's enough now - stfu and go back to your AD toons".

Reason probably was that I was on a friggin' OP werewolf build back then, and because they died 1v4 towards me over and over - they didn't leave me alone. I started to go for them too (offense is best defense I guess) - and eventually this p****d them off badly. How they got the idea I wasn't white is still unknown to me, but it's a horrible behavior nonetheless (i mean, it could be right). No convenient way to report that, became an obvious flaw to me.

Also heard from female guild mates, that they have had very nasty whispers from certain players. Not like casual grooming, but stuff that's like even illegal in many countries. To be forced to go through screencap, uploading, reporting, linking image etc. makes these guys pretty safe in what they do.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

Earthewen wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@Sange13 must be nice to live in a delusional world. No one said all trolling was racist/sexist/harassment. I listed very specific examples of “trolling”, that is not okay.

And yes, it’s not up to me to tell them, they are free to do what they want, but if they are being racist, sexually harassing people, being overtly offensive, then they get reported and they brought it on themselves. So kindly grow up.

My original post really wasn't even thinking about these obvious things. Of course, everything you mention above is WRONG to say. Racism, sexual harassment, and bigotry is never acceptable.

But there are some gray areas that we all know exist, like when people get frustrated with someone or something for example. I think sometimes we are way to quick to call something offensive just because we don't like what the other person said or how they presented it. It is the gray area that become dangerous if we start trying to control it and what things mean to each person. I'm not making excuses for bad behavior and people who are displaying bad behavior consistently as stated above, but about the people who might say something we didn't want to hear. We just shut them up as fast as possible. What they said could be right and truthful, but we didn't like it or heard it through the lens of our own experience. We just either shout them down or try to silence them. I think sometimes we lose sight of this, and that brings about an environment where people will never grow. Not everything has to be stated "pleasantly" when dealing with hard topics that make us uncomfortable.

yes ur right but that would be an opinion and unless someone ask you for it it is wrong peeps should keep their opinions to them selfs

Rave the Histborn

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@Sange13 must be nice to live in a delusional world. No one said all trolling was racist/sexist/harassment. I listed very specific examples of “trolling”, that is not okay.

And yes, it’s not up to me to tell them, they are free to do what they want, but if they are being racist, sexually harassing people, being overtly offensive, then they get reported and they brought it on themselves. So kindly grow up.

I think the person that is reporting people over fee fees is the one that needs to do some growing up.

Sange13 wrote: »

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Indoril_Nerevar wrote: »

...
You are right. It is a serious issue. Has been since MSN and Facebook were established😂
...[/b]

Those two platforms were launched almost two decades apart, in 1995 and 2004, respectively.

Young people these days. Also, get off my lawn!

I do agree with the general sentiment, though. The problem with the Internet is that there are people on it, and not all people are nice.

...2004
..-1995
_______
.........9

..."two decades apart"

1980-2000 = decade
2000-2020 = decade
Decade + decade = 2 decades

[snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

Rave the Histborn

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Freedom of speech does not equal freedom from consequence. Nor does anyone have to put up with someone’s abusive behavior. Don’t like that you got reported for saying offensive things?

Stop being offensive. Simple as that. It’s call decency and being virtuous. Which I know are empty words to those who are the followers of subjectivity. I know it’s hard to understand when we are living in an age of alternate facts, and “truth isn’t truth”. And I know so many think they are being edgy and rebellious, hopefully you grow out of that some day.

It's really sad to see mean words on the internet being compared to abusive behavior. It's nowhere near the same thing and trying to equate actual abuse with "someone said something mean to me" frankly is disgusting and does a disservice to actual victims.

Don't like people saying offensive things? Stop being offended. It's as simple as that and even simpler than writing a report. I know it's crazy to say but, when you react like this, you give the person doing it what they wanted in the first place. I know we are living in a day where asking someone to do something for themselves is hate speech but at some point you need to stop having mommy and dada fight for you.

What is edgy and offensive to you isn't universally offensive to all. If growing out of being edgy and rebellious means becoming milquetoast, then please never grow out of it.

Sange13

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Sange13 wrote: »

...2004
..-1995
_______
.........9

..."two decades apart"

1980-2000 = decade
2000-2020 = decade
Decade + decade = 2 decades

[snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Decade:
noun
1. a period of ten years.

The math I showed above is showing the difference in those times in years--nine, as in less than 10 but close enough to round it up to one decade. The comment I was laughing at said two decades apart. Basic math here, folks. My 6-year old niece could figure it out.

r34lian

Looking at the title
I thought someone wrote stuga fanfic

Rave the Histborn

Sange13 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Sange13 wrote: »

...2004
..-1995
_______
.........9

..."two decades apart"

1980-2000 = decade
2000-2020 = decade
Decade + decade = 2 decades

Public schools should be abolished

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Decade:
noun
1. a period of ten years.

The math I showed above is showing the difference in those times in years--nine, as in less than 10 but close enough to round it up to one decade. The comment I was laughing at said two decades apart. Basic math here, folks. My 6-year old niece could figure it out.

Sorry, I misread and thought it was generations not decades.

Sarannah

Please do not consider "heavy sack" offensive when in dungeons, or I'll become hunted by ZOS!

khajiitNPC

@Rave the Histborn dude I get it, you think there should be no consequences to your actions. Which is fine. Obviously I’m not talking about people trolling in a light hearted manner. And I agree to the extent that there are a lot of thin skinned cuckservatives and libtards whose only sense of identity is tied to some extreme political agenda.
Which is a whole other topic in itself. But if you’re ok with sexually harassing people, being racist, ect, well that’s on you. I’m rarely offended, and I never report anyone, in fact I’m reported a lot on the forums because people can’t handle a straight shooter. Unfortunately there’s a lot of red pill incels who believe they should be allowed to do anything without repercussions, unfortunately that’s not the real world. And if they get reported and there is PROOF they are harassing someone, that’s their own fault. I get the social contract is hard to understand. And I understand that human decency has been weaponized under the banner of political correctness, god forbid anyone being decent to one another.

Sange13

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@Rave the Histborn dude I get it, you think there should be no consequences to your actions. Which is fine. Obviously I’m not talking about people trolling in a light hearted manner. And I agree to the extent that there are a lot of thin skinned cuckservatives and libtards whose only sense of identity is tied to some extreme political agenda.
Which is a whole other topic in itself. But if you’re ok with sexually harassing people, being racist, ect, well that’s on you. I’m rarely offended, and I never report anyone, in fact I’m reported a lot on the forums because people can’t handle a straight shooter. Unfortunately there’s a lot of red pill incels who believe they should be allowed to do anything without repercussions, unfortunately that’s not the real world. And if they get reported and there is PROOF they are harassing someone, that’s their own fault. I get the social contract is hard to understand. And I understand that human decency has been weaponized under the banner of political correctness, god forbid anyone being decent to one another.

The consequence should be that you get put on their ignore list--not reported with the intention that Big Brother ZOS is going to action your account. You clearly don't get it.

khajiitNPC

@Sange13 Except ignore doesn’t do much, especially when the “virtual world” spills into the real world. I’ve known people who have put someone on their ignore list, but they continued to be harassed through other means. But yeah I know, it’s some liberal agenda *rolls eyes*, as if anyone’s information isn’t easily accessed.

And I absolutely get it, you think there’s no repercussions to your actions. Have fun with that.

Recent

I hear you OP but you can't control other people BUT you do have control over yourself and there are things you can do
to minimalise the impact that toxic players have on you.

When zone chat gets toxic turn it off for a while....it's not toxic 24/7 sometimes it's funny, helpful, friendly etc

If you are in a dungeon group and 1 person gets toxic vote to kick them....if non want to kick them then leave.

If you are in a guild with too many toxic players then guild quit and find another, there are many.
If it's only one toxic person then talk to an officer about that person they probably are annoying other people not just you and they will get a warning.

There is always the ignore / block option.

When you are in control then it wont bother you so much....you have options so dont hang around trying to tolerate the intolerable.


With pvp its a whole new level....players get very competitive and aggressive....you are signing up for it really...
You can be offline and not get whispers while you play i think....try it anyhow.

These are all ways i learnt to use to manage my game experience ...good luck op 😊❤

Twilanthe

It seems to be that whenever someone speaks out against people being mean/rude to them, they end up being accused of "not having thick enough skin" or "not being able to take it" that if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen kind of mentality. So here we have the victim of what amounts to verbal and emotional abuse getting further insulted for not rolling over and taking it, or dishing it right back.

But to be honest it's nothing new. Even offline you'll hear people say to grow a backbone, to dish it back out, to not be "weak" at least when it comes to certain things. Swarms of people will stand up against someone being racist or prejudiced, but someone being insulting to your intelligence or opinions is fair game and if you can't take it you shouldn't voice said opinions. I don't personally agree with it, but it's how it is.

And the truth is making posts about it will never fix anything, because its just baiting the same response, especially when you use the buzzword "toxic" that seems to be like a red cloak to an angry bull.

As a side note. I find this one of the least toxic MMOs I've played. More often than not my dungeon groups go smooth and if we wipe someone explains the mechanics and we try again. I think I can count on my two hands the number of times I've gotten someone really putrid about it, with fingers left over. And I heal, the role most commonly accused for wipes.

Digerati

You're not the only one. There's another thread on this topic.

I have to say, this is such a horrible trend for gaming communities.
You're upset and offended by the content of the chat, you can turn it off or contribute content in the chat that you appreciate. Get your friends to contribute content in the chat that you appreciate.

Use the power of your own words to defeat the words that you do not like.

[snip].

[snip]

The in-game chat is like that because that's what people like. It's an open system, you get what you put in. And people are putting in what they want to be put in and they obviously like it. So, they like it, but you don't. [snip]

[snip]

[edited for baiting and bashing]

deleted008293

In some other games I often saw GM's playing among us and actually be visible in the game and distinguished than anyone else. I think this would be the solution for many problems caused at least in PvP area. And not only. However those people must be ZOS employees paid for this job and not in-game players choose'd by ZOS to represent them, as this can lead to an power abuse by some.

When I saw such situations I used to say few words like hey please keep the channel clear or please mind your language etc...
You can do same and if that doesn't work you can simply turn chat offline. If you are harassed via pm you can turn that off. As for mails. ZOS should add an option to allow a player to disable in-game mails at all or from people whom aren't friends, etc.
Also in PvP The idea of alliance lock private chat should be in place so players from different alliances could not whisper each other unless they are FRIENDS or share same GUILD.

deleted008293

Social Mute punishment. Also when people behave bad repeatedly they should receive a small warning. Several of those should result in a social mute for that person for a period of time. The more warnings and the bigger the offence the longer the time this person can't communicate in zone chat, pm, guilds chat, group chat or by mails, even forum. Unless friends. Could work same on forums as well. And off topic, fishing and baiting, etc should also receive a similar treatment.

Sanctum74

nordmarian wrote: »

In some other games I often saw GM's playing among us and actually be visible in the game and distinguished than anyone else. I think this would be the solution for many problems caused at least in PvP area. And not only. However those people must be ZOS employees paid for this job and not in-game players choose'd by ZOS to represent them, as this can lead to an power abuse by some.

When I saw such situations I used to say few words like hey please keep the channel clear or please mind your language etc...
You can do same and if that doesn't work you can simply turn chat offline. If you are harassed via pm you can turn that off. As for mails. ZOS should add an option to allow a player to disable in-game mails at all or from people whom aren't friends, etc.
Also in PvP The idea of alliance lock private chat should be in place so players from different alliances could not whisper each other unless they are FRIENDS or share same GUILD.

Its not financially feasible for them to hire GM’s for pvp chat. There are 4 campaigns, 3 different platforms, and 3 different shifts to monitor. So they would have to hire at least 36 people and would cost them over $1.5 million a year when someone could just use the block feature.