Nightblade nerfs

Ragnaroek93

Xologamer wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

nublife01 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

About those changes to Veiled Strike, I have seen some mix reactions.

Most people say it is a nerf.

Some said it is a buff, since you will be able to get stun & Off Balance even if out of invisibility / stealth. Lets say you will get hit by some random AOE or sorc's hurricane etc - and you will still be able to trigger the CC.

Nonetheless - I think it is a nerf. You will have to be super lucky to trigger this effect as positioning in ESO is ultra - unreliable. YOU may see for example that you are attacking from flank / rear, but SERVER sees (because of lags) that you are attacking from the front.

Previously - it required just to be invisible / stealthed to trigger the Stun & Off Balance. Now, this combo will no longer be possible, as we will have positioning server RNG...

Also, this developer comment kinda implies that ZOS acknowledges that bugged invisibility / cloak and everything breaking it (even things that are not supposed to) is here to stay, thus they changed this skill... Almost as if they could not / be unwilling to fix invisibility mechanics.

the problem isnt that the server want accept the stun the bigger problem is that this condition ,,flank from the side" will be aktive like 90% of the time -> random stun -> random stuns are completly useless

and btw i was able to stun a stam sorc with max huricane with this stun atm u just need to know how to...

the guys who think its a buff are eater pretty new player or dont understand what the effect of this will be

Good players burst around their CC's and don't CC around their burst so I consider it as a buff (in no CP at least).

this is actually highly incorrect as pertaining to stamblade.

as a stamblade your burst is easily mitigated meaning you have to hide it and mix it up instead of having a direct combo. if you lead with a stun any half brained player is going to break free and dodge roll/spam their HOTs and mitigation abilities to prevent any further burst after CC from ulti.

also if you want your highest burst as nightblade in CP you have to bash weave as it procs the CP passive that does 10k damage if you block an enemies ability. in otherwords you want to cc midway through your burst as opposed to right away. if you watch a player like grimm for example he usually leads with spectral bow bash weave into cc from incap strike as opposed to leading with cc into burst. this is rather cc'ing around burst than bursting around CC's.

if i am dueling a nightblade after this fix i can easily control the fight against him by simply turning my back to him to receive CC immunity when i want it as nightblades do not do enough damage to kill most classes at full health.

the most optimum way to deal damage with our class is to hide when we are actually bursting our enemy and the change to the attack literally lets your opponent dictate when you can CC them and any good player will most certainly take advantage of that and that is why it is a nerf

But I can still do all of that...

not anylonger if this change comes to live(what will happen)
cause everyone will just roll away if u start ur burst cause u cant stun anylonger

I tell you how it is on live server right now. Lets assume that you fight someone who is good. He will block/dodgeroll/meditate as soon as you enter Cloak so that you can't stun him. If you use fear or the fg stun the opponent will just break free and dodgeroll the follow up Incap/Grim Focus (yes you can do that). The only thing which works for burst is medium attack on off balance and follow up with Incap (that actually hits), it only works in CP and I will still be able to do that. Just wait for stun imunity to run off.

Just go duels and fight good players like Dusk and I promise you that you won't land a Surprise Attack out of Cloak or manage to hit a follow up Incap/Grim Focus after Fear, it's beyond frustrating. Having a stun on my spammable at least creates pressure, drains stamina and gives me more offensive uptime. For burst I will just play around the stun imunity.

Decimus

Xologamer wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nothing random about the stun, it is guaranteed if the conditions are met.

But it's on an ability that you are literally spamming.. so the CC is getting applied non-strategically. Most PvPers don't want to CC enemies on cooldown because it gives them CC immunity and makes it more difficult to line up your kill-combo. Massive nerf imo.

You aren't spamming it though, not unless your target is CC'd or if you play a tank build.

The first scenario is because as has been written even by people who dislike the change, NB burst is very much about PIs & Spectral Bows (personally I don't even run Relentless as the burst is more than enough on Live, though this might change next patch with Bash change), then going for burst with Incap or SA stun - you can't stay and weave in melee range on a rollerblade or a high dmg build as NB doesn't have the survivability for that, nor the pressure to get through heals.

Nothing changes for these types of builds, you can still kite, PI, throw out spectral bows and then go for an Incap stun (or medium weave+Incap if CP).

In fact, now you can go for a SA stun as well without having to cloak in case 120 Incap isn't ready, this is huge for noCP in particular where an Off Balance Stun is a rare treat rather than the norm.


The second scenario where you build around tank sets, have like 2k weapon damage and need to weave to bring target low enough? Adapt.

There's been plenty of scenarios in this game where class skills have been altered and certain builds have had to make changes to how they build/play. This might mean building more around DoTs and spending GCDs applying them rather than using Surprise Attack for instance. Or just using a different spammable.

so i use 2dmg sets i have littely no defense and i still use suprice atack very often as tactical stun i play like: if health is above 40% than suprice atack(while doing that runing in circle around enemy to confuse them) la spam until bow or ult is ready when bow /ult is ready 1of 2things happen 1: ill invis suprice atack -> bow ->bash or ult ->la ->bow ->la ->suprice atack
if iam bellow 40% 1elan 1dodge 1cloak maybe shadow image than im max life and back to above 40% plan

what this means -> 50% of the fight im running in circles around an enemy and building up burst while preassuring him -> e.g. the fightersguild skill which requiers flank to has about ~60-80% uptime -> same would happen to suprice atack stun i would jsut give away the immunity for free and in my burst combos i wouldnt be able to stun anylonger -> everone rolls after 1.bow/ult -> rip combo

I hope you heavy before the SA as that adds a ton of burst damage.

Regardless, you'll still be able to do all of that as SA->Bow (CC break & 7s immunity begins somewhere before/after this depending on opponent)->6 seconds of weave time or you go back to kiting.

I really don't see what the problem is, besides maybe most NB abilities like Spectral Bow being dodgeable.


The way it works for me in noCP 99% of time: Cloak->Heavy Attack+SA Stun->LA+Spin2Win (counters dodge roll)+Bash Weave / another LA+SA+Bash weave if they're not in spin radius or out of range.

Results in a kill almost 100% of time when fighting the average open world player. Against tankier targets you just replace SA with Incap.


You can do that with a 2H build as well, just replace spin2win with Executioner. Dodge rolls are going to suck, but the average open world player doesn't dodge roll in time (and in noCP even good players eventually run out of stamina).


Personally I've never felt like I need to weave Surprise Attacks before CC'ing someone.

Sylas_Orin

Zulera301 wrote: »

this happens every patch. NB players complain about another nerf, forgetting that they're still OP in the PvP grand scheme of things.
when the PvE players start complaining it might be worth listening to.

speaking as someone who isn't some god-tier PvPer by any means, but that can almost always get good results with budget-build NBs in PvP situations. so I know how it feels to be on the giving end of that much slaughter just like I know how it feels to be on the receiving end.

As a PvE Nightblade main since I started playing, I can tell you NBs are the most clunky and unreliable classes to play.

Langeston

[snip]. Many have either never played as a NB & have no idea how difficult it is to time a NB combo right now, and/or they haven't taken the time to understand why NBs are unhappy with this change.

ElvenVeil wrote: »

if you guys cant figure out moving to the flank of an enemy, then you are not utilizing the skill as you should to begin with. This change pretty much makes it similar to how dizzy has been for the most of the game, and saving a skill slot is worth so much in this game. Bar space issues is like the biggest struggle for any character

If you can't figure out why people are complaining about this change, maybe you shouldn't be so condescending — try actually reading & understanding what people are saying.
Spoiler Alert: It has nothing to do with not knowing how to flank.

Decimus wrote: »

Nothing random about the stun, it is guaranteed if the conditions are met...

Correct. And with these changes, it's too easy to meet said conditions in many situations (i.e. when you're brawling.) Surprise Attack will wind up CCing people before your burst is ready, leaving you with nothing to use to capitalize on the CC other than more Surprise Attacks.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Good players burst around their CC's and don't CC around their burst so I consider it as a buff (in no CP at least).

Oh please. 🙄

What happens when you're brawling, you have 45 ultimate & 3 stacks on your bow, and your opponent turns slightly at the same time you attack with SA, causing them to be CCed? How is a "good player" supposed to "burst around" that CC?

[edited for non-constructive/baiting comment]

Xologamer

Langeston wrote: »

[snip]. Many have either never played as a NB & have no idea how difficult it is to time a NB combo right now, and/or they haven't taken the time to understand why NBs are unhappy with this change.

ElvenVeil wrote: »

if you guys cant figure out moving to the flank of an enemy, then you are not utilizing the skill as you should to begin with. This change pretty much makes it similar to how dizzy has been for the most of the game, and saving a skill slot is worth so much in this game. Bar space issues is like the biggest struggle for any character

If you can't figure out why people are complaining about this change, maybe you shouldn't be so condescending — try actually reading & understanding what people are saying.
Spoiler Alert: It has nothing to do with not knowing how to flank.

Decimus wrote: »

Nothing random about the stun, it is guaranteed if the conditions are met...

Correct. And with these changes, it's too easy to meet said conditions in many situations (i.e. when you're brawling.) Surprise Attack will wind up CCing people before your burst is ready, leaving you with nothing to use to capitalize on the CC other than more Surprise Attacks.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Good players burst around their CC's and don't CC around their burst so I consider it as a buff (in no CP at least).

Oh please. 🙄

What happens when you're brawling, you have 45 ultimate & 3 stacks on your bow, and your opponent turns slightly at the same time you attack with SA, causing them to be CCed? How is a "good player" supposed to "burst around" that CC?

thank u.

nublife01

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

nublife01 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

About those changes to Veiled Strike, I have seen some mix reactions.

Most people say it is a nerf.

Some said it is a buff, since you will be able to get stun & Off Balance even if out of invisibility / stealth. Lets say you will get hit by some random AOE or sorc's hurricane etc - and you will still be able to trigger the CC.

Nonetheless - I think it is a nerf. You will have to be super lucky to trigger this effect as positioning in ESO is ultra - unreliable. YOU may see for example that you are attacking from flank / rear, but SERVER sees (because of lags) that you are attacking from the front.

Previously - it required just to be invisible / stealthed to trigger the Stun & Off Balance. Now, this combo will no longer be possible, as we will have positioning server RNG...

Also, this developer comment kinda implies that ZOS acknowledges that bugged invisibility / cloak and everything breaking it (even things that are not supposed to) is here to stay, thus they changed this skill... Almost as if they could not / be unwilling to fix invisibility mechanics.

the problem isnt that the server want accept the stun the bigger problem is that this condition ,,flank from the side" will be aktive like 90% of the time -> random stun -> random stuns are completly useless

and btw i was able to stun a stam sorc with max huricane with this stun atm u just need to know how to...

the guys who think its a buff are eater pretty new player or dont understand what the effect of this will be

Good players burst around their CC's and don't CC around their burst so I consider it as a buff (in no CP at least).

this is actually highly incorrect as pertaining to stamblade.

as a stamblade your burst is easily mitigated meaning you have to hide it and mix it up instead of having a direct combo. if you lead with a stun any half brained player is going to break free and dodge roll/spam their HOTs and mitigation abilities to prevent any further burst after CC from ulti.

also if you want your highest burst as nightblade in CP you have to bash weave as it procs the CP passive that does 10k damage if you block an enemies ability. in otherwords you want to cc midway through your burst as opposed to right away. if you watch a player like grimm for example he usually leads with spectral bow bash weave into cc from incap strike as opposed to leading with cc into burst. this is rather cc'ing around burst than bursting around CC's.

if i am dueling a nightblade after this fix i can easily control the fight against him by simply turning my back to him to receive CC immunity when i want it as nightblades do not do enough damage to kill most classes at full health.

the most optimum way to deal damage with our class is to hide when we are actually bursting our enemy and the change to the attack literally lets your opponent dictate when you can CC them and any good player will most certainly take advantage of that and that is why it is a nerf

But I can still do all of that...

not anylonger if this change comes to live(what will happen)
cause everyone will just roll away if u start ur burst cause u cant stun anylonger

I tell you how it is on live server right now. Lets assume that you fight someone who is good. He will block/dodgeroll/meditate as soon as you enter Cloak so that you can't stun him. If you use fear or the fg stun the opponent will just break free and dodgeroll the follow up Incap/Grim Focus (yes you can do that). The only thing which works for burst is medium attack on off balance and follow up with Incap (that actually hits), it only works in CP and I will still be able to do that. Just wait for stun imunity to run off.

Just go duels and fight good players like Dusk and I promise you that you won't land a Surprise Attack out of Cloak or manage to hit a follow up Incap/Grim Focus after Fear, it's beyond frustrating. Having a stun on my spammable at least creates pressure, drains stamina and gives me more offensive uptime. For burst I will just play around the stun imunity.

stunning out of cloak is a fools errand for burst unless youre low on hp/stam and need a stun to heal up/heavy attack stam regen. using cloak stun offensively is something newer nightblades do. cloak is and always will be a way to interrupt enemy burst.

you should never ever be incapping before grim focus. like never ever do that. that is telegraphing all of your damage to your enemy letting them blatantly know all of your damage is coming. odds are they will break free and dodge roll before your spectral bow even lands or your incap for that matter. you should be leading with your spectral bow and then incapping.

you need to lead your burst with heavy attack/spectral bow/bash weave right as theyre attacking you so that you can proc the 10k damage from the CP passive (forget its name) and follow it immediately with a non weaved incap into execute spam. execute is the only ability that youre going to be able to get off quickly enough after incap strike before the enemy starts mitigating and healing. and the spectral bow weave i just mentioned if timed correctly with the 10k CP passive proc from your bash weave will actually do more damage than using spectral bow after incap strike.

start this burst combo when the player is at 3/4 life and trying to go on offense against you (so that you can bait that 10k damage proc) and is not expecting you to hit them with everything. nma/clever alchemists (the sets you should be wearing) will enable you to kill them at 3/4 life with this combo if planned correctly.

the medium/heavy attack bash weave should also completely hide your spectral bow so your target will only realize how hard they have been hit when their hp pool plummets which gives them much less of a reaction time than reacting to your spell animation which is actually 1000x more effective than stunning a target before starting your burst. also theres this thing called hp bar lag which helps a great deal with this.

starting with incap into spectral bow is a l2p issue and you should expect to always have your spectral bow dodge rolled if used in that fashion. even before this nightblade burst rotation was meta stunning before doing a burst rotation as opposed to in the middle of a burst rotation has always been a major no no for nightblades. it sounds like you have your burst rotation completely out of sorts. try these tips out and come back and lmk if you still think the surprise attack change isnt a nerf.

Ragnaroek93

nublife01 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

nublife01 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

About those changes to Veiled Strike, I have seen some mix reactions.

Most people say it is a nerf.

Some said it is a buff, since you will be able to get stun & Off Balance even if out of invisibility / stealth. Lets say you will get hit by some random AOE or sorc's hurricane etc - and you will still be able to trigger the CC.

Nonetheless - I think it is a nerf. You will have to be super lucky to trigger this effect as positioning in ESO is ultra - unreliable. YOU may see for example that you are attacking from flank / rear, but SERVER sees (because of lags) that you are attacking from the front.

Previously - it required just to be invisible / stealthed to trigger the Stun & Off Balance. Now, this combo will no longer be possible, as we will have positioning server RNG...

Also, this developer comment kinda implies that ZOS acknowledges that bugged invisibility / cloak and everything breaking it (even things that are not supposed to) is here to stay, thus they changed this skill... Almost as if they could not / be unwilling to fix invisibility mechanics.

the problem isnt that the server want accept the stun the bigger problem is that this condition ,,flank from the side" will be aktive like 90% of the time -> random stun -> random stuns are completly useless

and btw i was able to stun a stam sorc with max huricane with this stun atm u just need to know how to...

the guys who think its a buff are eater pretty new player or dont understand what the effect of this will be

Good players burst around their CC's and don't CC around their burst so I consider it as a buff (in no CP at least).

this is actually highly incorrect as pertaining to stamblade.

as a stamblade your burst is easily mitigated meaning you have to hide it and mix it up instead of having a direct combo. if you lead with a stun any half brained player is going to break free and dodge roll/spam their HOTs and mitigation abilities to prevent any further burst after CC from ulti.

also if you want your highest burst as nightblade in CP you have to bash weave as it procs the CP passive that does 10k damage if you block an enemies ability. in otherwords you want to cc midway through your burst as opposed to right away. if you watch a player like grimm for example he usually leads with spectral bow bash weave into cc from incap strike as opposed to leading with cc into burst. this is rather cc'ing around burst than bursting around CC's.

if i am dueling a nightblade after this fix i can easily control the fight against him by simply turning my back to him to receive CC immunity when i want it as nightblades do not do enough damage to kill most classes at full health.

the most optimum way to deal damage with our class is to hide when we are actually bursting our enemy and the change to the attack literally lets your opponent dictate when you can CC them and any good player will most certainly take advantage of that and that is why it is a nerf

But I can still do all of that...

not anylonger if this change comes to live(what will happen)
cause everyone will just roll away if u start ur burst cause u cant stun anylonger

I tell you how it is on live server right now. Lets assume that you fight someone who is good. He will block/dodgeroll/meditate as soon as you enter Cloak so that you can't stun him. If you use fear or the fg stun the opponent will just break free and dodgeroll the follow up Incap/Grim Focus (yes you can do that). The only thing which works for burst is medium attack on off balance and follow up with Incap (that actually hits), it only works in CP and I will still be able to do that. Just wait for stun imunity to run off.

Just go duels and fight good players like Dusk and I promise you that you won't land a Surprise Attack out of Cloak or manage to hit a follow up Incap/Grim Focus after Fear, it's beyond frustrating. Having a stun on my spammable at least creates pressure, drains stamina and gives me more offensive uptime. For burst I will just play around the stun imunity.

stunning out of cloak is a fools errand for burst unless youre low on hp/stam and need a stun to heal up/heavy attack stam regen. using cloak stun offensively is something newer nightblades do. cloak is and always will be a way to interrupt enemy burst.

you should never ever be incapping before grim focus. like never ever do that. that is telegraphing all of your damage to your enemy letting them blatantly know all of your damage is coming. odds are they will break free and dodge roll before your spectral bow even lands or your incap for that matter. you should be leading with your spectral bow and then incapping.

you need to lead your burst with heavy attack/spectral bow/bash weave right as theyre attacking you so that you can proc the 10k damage from the CP passive (forget its name) and follow it immediately with a non weaved incap into execute spam. execute is the only ability that youre going to be able to get off quickly enough after incap strike before the enemy starts mitigating and healing. and the spectral bow weave i just mentioned if timed correctly with the 10k CP passive proc from your bash weave will actually do more damage than using spectral bow after incap strike.

start this burst combo when the player is at 3/4 life and trying to go on offense against you (so that you can bait that 10k damage proc) and is not expecting you to hit them with everything. nma/clever alchemists (the sets you should be wearing) will enable you to kill them at 3/4 life with this combo if planned correctly.

the medium/heavy attack bash weave should also completely hide your spectral bow so your target will only realize how hard they have been hit when their hp pool plummets which gives them much less of a reaction time than reacting to your spell animation which is actually 1000x more effective than stunning a target before starting your burst. also theres this thing called hp bar lag which helps a great deal with this.

starting with incap into spectral bow is a l2p issue and you should expect to always have your spectral bow dodge rolled if used in that fashion. even before this nightblade burst rotation was meta stunning before doing a burst rotation as opposed to in the middle of a burst rotation has always been a major no no for nightblades. it sounds like you have your burst rotation completely out of sorts. try these tips out and come back and lmk if you still think the surprise attack change isnt a nerf.

Have played Nb in high end duels for years, I know how to play the class. Being able to use Cloak offensive is (or was before they took away defile and added a cast time to Incap) the reason how Nb created pressure because it denies heavy attack sustain and forces them to block/roll the stun. What you describe here is extremely predictable and doesn't work against good players (at least not reliable). Playing purely around burst won't give you any pressure and having a playstyle without pressure is simply not viable in high end duels. On top of that bash dmg gets removed so you will have even less burst.

One last question. If a stun on a spammable is so weak how come that master reach was so strong on sorc who is a burst class too?

Edit: Nbs biggest issue right now is that the class has no pressure, this means that your opponent can easily avoid your offensive windows because you simply can't drain ressources from them.

Langeston

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

One last question. If a stun on a spammable is so weak how come that master reach was so strong on sorc who is a burst class too?

I would imagine it's because a Magsorc's burst is delayed, the skills are more forgiving with regard to timing, and their burst isn't completely centered around LA weaving a spammable. I use Flame reach on my Magblade, but only as a stun. If I tried to use it as a spammable it would make my burst even more and inconsistent and difficult to time.

MentalxHammer

This is a massive buff, there is only roughly 90 degrees in front of your target where this will not proc

Langeston

MentalxHammer wrote: »

This is a massive buff, there is only roughly 90 degrees in front of your target where this will not proc

You're missing the point.

Parasaurolophus

And... no fix it in new patch...

MentalxHammer

Says "you're missing the point". But proves no point... yes it might be sliiiighty harder to use for gank blades. A buff for every other NB playstyle.

Langeston wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

This is a massive buff, there is only roughly 90 degrees in front of your target where this will not proc

You're missing the point.

Suligost

New suprise attack fits my style, so propably I will make use of it finnaly.

Czekoludek

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Says "you're missing the point". But proves no point... yes it might be sliiiighty harder to use for gank blades. A buff for every other NB playstyle.

Langeston wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

This is a massive buff, there is only roughly 90 degrees in front of your target where this will not proc

You're missing the point.

Read the while thread and you will see why ppl think this change is bad.
Basically for classes which have delayed burst that change could be buff as you can burst around it. For blades it will be harder to line up burst to stun as it will often proc when their bow or/and ulti won't be ready.

Tommy_The_Gun

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/526374/pts-patch-notes-v6-0-3#latest
Adjusted the Vampire Stages to the following:

Stage 1/2/3/4
Health Recovery is now -10/-30/-60/-100%, adjusted from -10/-40/-70-/100%
Flame Damage Taken is now +5/+8/+13/+20%, adjusted from +5/+10/+15/+20%
Regular Ability Cost is now +3/+5/+8+12%, down from +5/+10/+15/+20%
Vampire Ability Cost is now -6/-10/-16/-24%, down from -10/-20/-30/-40%

So, at stage 4, the penalties you will get is: no health recovery, 20% more dmg from flame, 12% more expensive non-vampire skills (down from 20%).

I don't know about you, but it kinda means that it will be actually possible (and sustainable) to go for stage 4 on a non - NB and have easy access to vamp invisibility and use it for ganking. And primary ganking, as casting 3 - 5 skills for a burst combo is not that resource - hungry.

The share thought of Necro, Sorc (with overload !) or Tamplar, ganking from stealth is pretty scary...

XerShade

Plenty of stuns left in the kit, get good and use the difficult ones. Never used Heavy Attacks from Sneak or Veiled to rely on my stuns, then again I make it a habbit to not rely on game breakign bugs, or RNG, to determine my skill level.

Langeston

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Says "you're missing the point". But proves no point... yes it might be sliiiighty harder to use for gank blades. A buff for every other NB playstyle.

Langeston wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

This is a massive buff, there is only roughly 90 degrees in front of your target where this will not proc

You're missing the point.

*sigh*
I've already stated the point more than once, as have several others. Why should people have to repeat themselves when you clearly are either incapable of understanding, or have no inclination to do so?

From this thread alone:
(Note that none of us are talking about "gank blades.")

Langeston wrote: »

Lots of ignorance in this thread. Many have either never played as a NB & have no idea how difficult it is to time a NB combo right now, and/or they haven't taken the time to understand why NBs are unhappy with this change.

ElvenVeil wrote: »

if you guys cant figure out moving to the flank of an enemy, then you are not utilizing the skill as you should to begin with. This change pretty much makes it similar to how dizzy has been for the most of the game, and saving a skill slot is worth so much in this game. Bar space issues is like the biggest struggle for any character

If you can't figure out why people are complaining about this change, maybe you shouldn't be so condescending — try actually reading & understanding what people are saying.
Spoiler Alert: It has nothing to do with not knowing how to flank.

Decimus wrote: »

Nothing random about the stun, it is guaranteed if the conditions are met...

Correct. And with these changes, it's too easy to meet said conditions in many situations (i.e. when you're brawling.) Surprise Attack will wind up CCing people before your burst is ready, leaving you with nothing to use to capitalize on the CC other than more Surprise Attacks.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Good players burst around their CC's and don't CC around their burst so I consider it as a buff (in no CP at least).

Oh please. 🙄

What happens when you're brawling, you have 45 ultimate & 3 stacks on your bow, and your opponent turns slightly at the same time you attack with SA, causing them to be CCed? How is a "good player" supposed to "burst around" that CC?

Xologamer wrote: »

the problem isnt that the server want accept the stun the bigger problem is that this condition ,,flank from the side" will be aktive like 90% of the time -> random stun -> random stuns are completly useless

and btw i was able to stun a stam sorc with max huricane with this stun atm u just need to know how to...

the guys who think its a buff are eater pretty new player or dont understand what the effect of this will be

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

But it's on an ability that you are literally spamming.. so the CC is getting applied non-strategically. Most PvPers don't want to CC enemies on cooldown because it gives them CC immunity and makes it more difficult to line up your kill-combo. Massive nerf imo.

Sanguinor2

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/526374/pts-patch-notes-v6-0-3#latest
Adjusted the Vampire Stages to the following:

Stage 1/2/3/4
Health Recovery is now -10/-30/-60/-100%, adjusted from -10/-40/-70-/100%
Flame Damage Taken is now +5/+8/+13/+20%, adjusted from +5/+10/+15/+20%
Regular Ability Cost is now +3/+5/+8+12%, down from +5/+10/+15/+20%
Vampire Ability Cost is now -6/-10/-16/-24%, down from -10/-20/-30/-40%

So, at stage 4, the penalties you will get is: no health recovery, 20% more dmg from flame, 12% more expensive non-vampire skills (down from 20%).

I don't know about you, but it kinda means that it will be actually possible (and sustainable) to go for stage 4 on a non - NB and have easy access to vamp invisibility and use it for ganking. And primary ganking, as casting 3 - 5 skills for a burst combo is not that resource - hungry.

The share thought of Necro, Sorc (with overload !) or Tamplar, ganking from stealth is pretty scary...

The Vamp Stealth passive is still Pretty bad for ganking, the Vamp stage changes dont do anything to that. You get revealed as soon as you stop sprinting so you cant do any of the Setup you can as a nightblade from cloak. You can use it to get close to someone but you cannot cc or burst from Stealth so no ganking Happening there.

Langeston

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/526374/pts-patch-notes-v6-0-3#latest
Adjusted the Vampire Stages to the following:

Stage 1/2/3/4
Health Recovery is now -10/-30/-60/-100%, adjusted from -10/-40/-70-/100%
Flame Damage Taken is now +5/+8/+13/+20%, adjusted from +5/+10/+15/+20%
Regular Ability Cost is now +3/+5/+8+12%, down from +5/+10/+15/+20%
Vampire Ability Cost is now -6/-10/-16/-24%, down from -10/-20/-30/-40%

So, at stage 4, the penalties you will get is: no health recovery, 20% more dmg from flame, 12% more expensive non-vampire skills (down from 20%).

I don't know about you, but it kinda means that it will be actually possible (and sustainable) to go for stage 4 on a non - NB and have easy access to vamp invisibility and use it for ganking. And primary ganking, as casting 3 - 5 skills for a burst combo is not that resource - hungry.

The share thought of Necro, Sorc (with overload !) or Tamplar, ganking from stealth is pretty scary...

The Vamp Stealth passive is still Pretty bad for ganking, the Vamp stage changes dont do anything to that. You get revealed as soon as you stop sprinting so you cant do any of the Setup you can as a nightblade from cloak. You can use it to get close to someone but you cannot cc or burst from Stealth so no ganking Happening there.

I dunno. I think invisible Necro Robber-bombers with their new vampire AOE CC are going to be a thing.

Sanguinor2

Langeston wrote: »

I dunno. I think invisible Necro Robber-bombers with their new vampire AOE CC are going to be a thing.

Idk still not that convinced. They cant time those spells like you can with Proxy+tether and they Need multiple casts off without anyone doing anything About it while not in Stealth.

Mayrael

Oh this change to non vampire skills will end badly. Whole Cyrodiil will run now vampires, especially 1vXers. Just use alteration mastery or battlefield acrobat. Passive from vampire skill line will make up for damage loss while 6% more is laughable for being able to sprint in cloak. Sorry but this is not for me, maybe I'll step in for a moment but magblades for completely ruined. They have taken everything what was uniqe in this class and gave it all away available for everyone, there is not a single reason to stick with this class and I won't roll another toon. It will be even worse since invisibility will be a common thing now, everyone will run counters to it, meaning magblades are completely screwed. Who cares anyway, nobody plays NBs these days, especially magblades, so not a big loss. Happy playing guys I'm out.

Ragnaroek93

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/526374/pts-patch-notes-v6-0-3#latest
Adjusted the Vampire Stages to the following:

Stage 1/2/3/4
Health Recovery is now -10/-30/-60/-100%, adjusted from -10/-40/-70-/100%
Flame Damage Taken is now +5/+8/+13/+20%, adjusted from +5/+10/+15/+20%
Regular Ability Cost is now +3/+5/+8+12%, down from +5/+10/+15/+20%
Vampire Ability Cost is now -6/-10/-16/-24%, down from -10/-20/-30/-40%

So, at stage 4, the penalties you will get is: no health recovery, 20% more dmg from flame, 12% more expensive non-vampire skills (down from 20%).

I don't know about you, but it kinda means that it will be actually possible (and sustainable) to go for stage 4 on a non - NB and have easy access to vamp invisibility and use it for ganking. And primary ganking, as casting 3 - 5 skills for a burst combo is not that resource - hungry.

The share thought of Necro, Sorc (with overload !) or Tamplar, ganking from stealth is pretty scary...

Running around in stage 4 (which enables stealth) sounds like suicide to me tbh. 12% cost increase is far more than a 5p set bonus, no health recovery is bad with the global healing nerf and you can kinda alt f4 when you face a mag dk.

universal_wrath

Langeston wrote: »

Lots of ignorance in this thread. Many have either never played as a NB & have no idea how difficult it is to time a NB combo right now, and/or they haven't taken the time to understand why NBs are unhappy with this change.

ElvenVeil wrote: »

if you guys cant figure out moving to the flank of an enemy, then you are not utilizing the skill as you should to begin with. This change pretty much makes it similar to how dizzy has been for the most of the game, and saving a skill slot is worth so much in this game. Bar space issues is like the biggest struggle for any character

If you can't figure out why people are complaining about this change, maybe you shouldn't be so condescending — try actually reading & understanding what people are saying.
Spoiler Alert: It has nothing to do with not knowing how to flank.

Decimus wrote: »

Nothing random about the stun, it is guaranteed if the conditions are met...

Correct. And with these changes, it's too easy to meet said conditions in many situations (i.e. when you're brawling.) Surprise Attack will wind up CCing people before your burst is ready, leaving you with nothing to use to capitalize on the CC other than more Surprise Attacks.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Good players burst around their CC's and don't CC around their burst so I consider it as a buff (in no CP at least).

Oh please. 🙄

What happens when you're brawling, you have 45 ultimate & 3 stacks on your bow, and your opponent turns slightly at the same time you attack with SA, causing them to be CCed? How is a "good player" supposed to "burst around" that CC?

Would you not say same thing about dizzy swing? It stuns after 2 hits regardleas, people srill adapted to it. If you don't like how SA woeok, you can dutch it and use dizzy. You still need to complain mean while until they adjust it. I mean, it happens all time with stam sorc, complain with no class spammable, use dizzy mean while until zos bring class spamble.

On another point, is SA not stun from stealth anymore or what? I thought all physical attacks stun from stealth. If it still work that way, what is the problem then? LA and HA should work the same if you attack from stealth, you heavy and light attacks will stun targets.

ThePedge

Langeston wrote: »

Oh please. 🙄

What happens when you're brawling, you have 45 ultimate & 3 stacks on your bow, and your opponent turns slightly at the same time you attack with SA, causing them to be CCed? How is a "good player" supposed to "burst around" that CC?

Oh please.

You wait until the next time you can CC in 4-7 seconds.

I don't get how you play NB if you are able to stand there and spam Suprise Attack forever. In which case, they would be already stunned and not stunned "randomly" half way through a fight. If you are starting a fight face-on with a NB you're either a tank or going to lose anyway.

You will start the fight exactly the same way as before. From stealth, from a flank, and straight up burst.

josh.lackey_ESO

Anything to discourage using Cloak is good. Just get rid of Cloak entirely would be better.

Tommy_The_Gun

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Anything to discourage using Cloak is good. Just get rid of Cloak entirely would be better.

Do you mean new Vamp invisibility passive by any chance ?

Sylas_Orin

(accidental double comment)

Zabulus

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

About those changes to Veiled Strike, I have seen some mix reactions.

Most people say it is a nerf.

Previously - it required just to be invisible / stealthed to trigger the Stun & Off Balance. Now, this combo will no longer be possible, as we will have positioning server RNG...

Yes its a nerf !

Zulera301

Czekoludek wrote: »

OP in PvP? What game do you play? The only place in PvP where blades are good are low mmr bgs as new players still don't know how to counter them. Any competent player can tell you that choosing Nb in PvP is a handicap. You can still perform if you are good but other classes will do it better

so in layman's terms, they're just mad that they're not as disgustingly OP as they were in the distant past and now they actually have to put a little effort forth in order to kill other players.

worldsSmallestViolin.jpg

Oathunbound

Zulera301 wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

OP in PvP? What game do you play? The only place in PvP where blades are good are low mmr bgs as new players still don't know how to counter them. Any competent player can tell you that choosing Nb in PvP is a handicap. You can still perform if you are good but other classes will do it better

so in layman's terms, they're just mad that they're not as disgustingly OP as they were in the distant past and now they actually have to put a little effort forth in order to kill other players.

worldsSmallestViolin.jpg

Where did the nb touch you in bg?

Its not a matter of being op its a matter of just being viable in pvp. Atm the ammount of skill needed to be viable vs any stam class and most mag is massive and the only other recourse is proc sets and at that point its the sets doing the work not the nb