Nightblade nerfs

Xologamer

here we go again next nerf
Veiled Strike: This ability and its morphs now stun and set targets Off Balance when used from the flank of an enemy, rather than when you are stealthed or invisible. This change was done to offset the loss of the ability to activate this portion of the attack with the recent fixes to Heavy Attacks properly breaking invisibility.

and its huge i think this will make this skill unplayble...

DT-ARR

The nightblade beatings will continue until morale improves.

Vanos444

They should have written like this,
Veiled Strike: This ability and its morphs now stun and set targets Off Balance when used from the flank of an enemy, rather than when you are stealthed or invisible. This change was done to offset the loss of the ability to activate this portion of the attack with the recent fixes to Heavy Attacks properly breaking invisibility. This ability is useless for any content, it's designed for RP specifically.

I bet they nay sayers will be pleased for this change.

Tommy_The_Gun

About those changes to Veiled Strike, I have seen some mix reactions.

Most people say it is a nerf.

Some said it is a buff, since you will be able to get stun & Off Balance even if out of invisibility / stealth. Lets say you will get hit by some random AOE or sorc's hurricane etc - and you will still be able to trigger the CC.

Nonetheless - I think it is a nerf. You will have to be super lucky to trigger this effect as positioning in ESO is ultra - unreliable. YOU may see for example that you are attacking from flank / rear, but SERVER sees (because of lags) that you are attacking from the front.

Previously - it required just to be invisible / stealthed to trigger the Stun & Off Balance. Now, this combo will no longer be possible, as we will have positioning server RNG...

Also, this developer comment kinda implies that ZOS acknowledges that bugged invisibility / cloak and everything breaking it (even things that are not supposed to) is here to stay, thus they changed this skill... Almost as if they could not / be unwilling to fix invisibility mechanics.

Xologamer

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

About those changes to Veiled Strike, I have seen some mix reactions.

Most people say it is a nerf.

Some said it is a buff, since you will be able to get stun & Off Balance even if out of invisibility / stealth. Lets say you will get hit by some random AOE or sorc's hurricane etc - and you will still be able to trigger the CC.

Nonetheless - I think it is a nerf. You will have to be super lucky to trigger this effect as positioning in ESO is ultra - unreliable. YOU may see for example that you are attacking from flank / rear, but SERVER sees (because of lags) that you are attacking from the front.

Previously - it required just to be invisible / stealthed to trigger the Stun & Off Balance. Now, this combo will no longer be possible, as we will have positioning server RNG...

Also, this developer comment kinda implies that ZOS acknowledges that bugged invisibility / cloak and everything breaking it (even things that are not supposed to) is here to stay, thus they changed this skill... Almost as if they could not / be unwilling to fix invisibility mechanics.

the problem isnt that the server want accept the stun the bigger problem is that this condition ,,flank from the side" will be aktive like 90% of the time -> random stun -> random stuns are completly useless

and btw i was able to stun a stam sorc with max huricane with this stun atm u just need to know how to...

the guys who think its a buff are eater pretty new player or dont understand what the effect of this will be

Decimus

Nothing random about the stun, it is guaranteed if the conditions are met.

How you meet the conditions also fits right in with the most common NB playstyle, where you want to open up with a stun (usually from cloak, with an accompanying heavy attack) after kiting & softening target with PIs/Spectral Bows.


That is to say, if you can cloak->heavy->SA (or Incap)->LA+Execute most people right now, you can do it more easily next patch (granted bash nerf might negatively affect this) and don't need to let up pressure to cloak if they're still alive after 7 seconds when the CC immunity runs out.

Considering the amount of AoEs in the game & damage returning effects such as Volatile (which on Live makes Heavy->SA stun impossible), this is a pretty big buff for NB, especially magicka NBs which can now Heavy Attack->Concealed Stun from Cloak, which previously used to be impossible.

ElvenVeil

if you guys cant figure out moving to the flank of an enemy, then you are not utilizing the skill as you should to begin with. This change pretty much makes it similar to how dizzy has been for the most of the game, and saving a skill slot is worth so much in this game. Bar space issues is like the biggest struggle for any character

Xologamer

ElvenVeil wrote: »

if you guys cant figure out moving to the flank of an enemy, then you are not utilizing the skill as you should to begin with. This change pretty much makes it similar to how dizzy has been for the most of the game, and saving a skill slot is worth so much in this game. Bar space issues is like the biggest struggle for any character

u didnt understand the problem overall : the problem isnt that it is to hard to flank an enemy the problem is that it is way to easy and will happen randomly -> this skill will stun random cause no one stand still in fight -> random stuns are useless

Xologamer

Decimus wrote: »

Nothing random about the stun, it is guaranteed if the conditions are met.

How you meet the conditions also fits right in with the most common NB playstyle, where you want to open up with a stun (usually from cloak, with an accompanying heavy attack) after kiting & softening target with PIs/Spectral Bows.


That is to say, if you can cloak->heavy->SA (or Incap)->LA+Execute most people right now, you can do it more easily next patch (granted bash nerf might negatively affect this) and don't need to let up pressure to cloak if they're still alive after 7 seconds when the CC immunity runs out.

Considering the amount of AoEs in the game & damage returning effects such as Volatile (which on Live makes Heavy->SA stun impossible), this is a pretty big buff for NB, especially magicka NBs which can now Heavy Attack->Concealed Stun from Cloak, which previously used to be impossible.

this stun will be completly random: u cant tell me that u are a nb not moving this is impossible and if u jsut move around ur enemy (like the most do ) u will flank him from the side permanently ( good example is the fighters guild skill which gives u (% more dmg if u flank an enemy) this skill is up like 80% of the time so will the stun be this just would mean that u give away stun immunity for free and if ur burst is ready than u cant stun ur enemy anylonger because suprice atack random stunned him before

Xologamer

Xologamer wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nothing random about the stun, it is guaranteed if the conditions are met.

How you meet the conditions also fits right in with the most common NB playstyle, where you want to open up with a stun (usually from cloak, with an accompanying heavy attack) after kiting & softening target with PIs/Spectral Bows.


That is to say, if you can cloak->heavy->SA (or Incap)->LA+Execute most people right now, you can do it more easily next patch (granted bash nerf might negatively affect this) and don't need to let up pressure to cloak if they're still alive after 7 seconds when the CC immunity runs out.

Considering the amount of AoEs in the game & damage returning effects such as Volatile (which on Live makes Heavy->SA stun impossible), this is a pretty big buff for NB, especially magicka NBs which can now Heavy Attack->Concealed Stun from Cloak, which previously used to be impossible.

this stun will be completly random: u cant tell me that u are a nb not moving this is impossible and if u jsut move around ur enemy (like the most do ) u will flank him from the side permanently ( good example is the fighters guild skill which gives u (% more dmg if u flank an enemy) this skill is up like 80% of the time so will the stun be this just would mean that u give away stun immunity for free and if ur burst is ready than u cant stun ur enemy anylonger because suprice atack random stunned him before

this basicly means they killed suprice atack completly because even u will notice after 5min on life that random stuns are useless + no 5k resi debuff
they pretty much killed cloak to (u cant anylonger heavy atakc from cloack) + u get reviled if anyone just shoots a la in ur direction
they killed incap with the cast time and no major defile
they killed relentless focus with whater it is now
they killed mark (revils enemys fulll 6 seconds instead for 30...)
they killed NB.
I always tryed to play stam nb in pvp but in the last ~2years stam nb got consistent nerfs and i just dont see that this can work next patch i would have 3nb skills left (cloak incap and shadow image - shadow image the only one not being crippelt)
and with 3skills left 2 of them crippelt i dont see reasons to play nb anylonger - jsut an example nb is so weak in about 1-2 weeks i got more effective with a dk than with my main nb (which hast over 100ingame days)

Zulera301

this happens every patch. NB players complain about another nerf, forgetting that they're still OP in the PvP grand scheme of things.
when the PvE players start complaining it might be worth listening to.

speaking as someone who isn't some god-tier PvPer by any means, but that can almost always get good results with budget-build NBs in PvP situations. so I know how it feels to be on the giving end of that much slaughter just like I know how it feels to be on the receiving end.

Mortiis13

For nb brawler it could be a buff, using heal morph of cloak.
But Assassin playstyle is dead, this is maybe the last nail for melee assassins. But snipe spam is also fun, isn't it?

Czekoludek

Zulera301 wrote: »

this happens every patch. NB players complain about another nerf, forgetting that they're still OP in the PvP grand scheme of things.
when the PvE players start complaining it might be worth listening to.

speaking as someone who isn't some god-tier PvPer by any means, but that can almost always get good results with budget-build NBs in PvP situations. so I know how it feels to be on the giving end of that much slaughter just like I know how it feels to be on the receiving end.

OP in PvP? What game do you play? The only place in PvP where blades are good are low mmr bgs as new players still don't know how to counter them. Any competent player can tell you that choosing Nb in PvP is a handicap. You can still perform if you are good but other classes will do it better

Ragnaroek93

Xologamer wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

About those changes to Veiled Strike, I have seen some mix reactions.

Most people say it is a nerf.

Some said it is a buff, since you will be able to get stun & Off Balance even if out of invisibility / stealth. Lets say you will get hit by some random AOE or sorc's hurricane etc - and you will still be able to trigger the CC.

Nonetheless - I think it is a nerf. You will have to be super lucky to trigger this effect as positioning in ESO is ultra - unreliable. YOU may see for example that you are attacking from flank / rear, but SERVER sees (because of lags) that you are attacking from the front.

Previously - it required just to be invisible / stealthed to trigger the Stun & Off Balance. Now, this combo will no longer be possible, as we will have positioning server RNG...

Also, this developer comment kinda implies that ZOS acknowledges that bugged invisibility / cloak and everything breaking it (even things that are not supposed to) is here to stay, thus they changed this skill... Almost as if they could not / be unwilling to fix invisibility mechanics.

the problem isnt that the server want accept the stun the bigger problem is that this condition ,,flank from the side" will be aktive like 90% of the time -> random stun -> random stuns are completly useless

and btw i was able to stun a stam sorc with max huricane with this stun atm u just need to know how to...

the guys who think its a buff are eater pretty new player or dont understand what the effect of this will be

Good players burst around their CC's and don't CC around their burst so I consider it as a buff (in no CP at least).

merevie

*sharpens daggers & stares at the calendar*

(& honestly, if you are standing in people's cone damage range as a nb, this is the least of your ...challenges)

Xologamer

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

About those changes to Veiled Strike, I have seen some mix reactions.

Most people say it is a nerf.

Some said it is a buff, since you will be able to get stun & Off Balance even if out of invisibility / stealth. Lets say you will get hit by some random AOE or sorc's hurricane etc - and you will still be able to trigger the CC.

Nonetheless - I think it is a nerf. You will have to be super lucky to trigger this effect as positioning in ESO is ultra - unreliable. YOU may see for example that you are attacking from flank / rear, but SERVER sees (because of lags) that you are attacking from the front.

Previously - it required just to be invisible / stealthed to trigger the Stun & Off Balance. Now, this combo will no longer be possible, as we will have positioning server RNG...

Also, this developer comment kinda implies that ZOS acknowledges that bugged invisibility / cloak and everything breaking it (even things that are not supposed to) is here to stay, thus they changed this skill... Almost as if they could not / be unwilling to fix invisibility mechanics.

the problem isnt that the server want accept the stun the bigger problem is that this condition ,,flank from the side" will be aktive like 90% of the time -> random stun -> random stuns are completly useless

and btw i was able to stun a stam sorc with max huricane with this stun atm u just need to know how to...

the guys who think its a buff are eater pretty new player or dont understand what the effect of this will be

Good players burst around their CC's and don't CC around their burst so I consider it as a buff (in no CP at least).

so u think a random stun is better than a stun combiend with burst ? i dont think so - or did i missunderstood something?

killingspreeb16_ESO

It's not exactly a nerf or a buff.

In most game a change like this would be taken as buff but in ESO thanks to delay,desync,lag etc this change might ruin a fight/combo.

Personally be it a buff/nerf i simply don't like it,a stun on a spammable damage skill feels wrong unless like before had a clear condition aka be stealth/invisible.
It was clear and easy to control even though with all the aoe around sometime felt impossible to land it.

Will see how it perform on live but with the change to HA in cloak something had to be done.

ThePedge

It's not random and can be played around perfectly fine.

Even if you do it by accident, there is 7s until you can do it again. Which is easily enough to get a bow proc ready and any buffs/debuffs on your target.

I love the Incap stun because it means I can stun if my ability to stealth is being suppressed, but this is even better and I can go back to Soul Harvest.

Xologamer

ThePedge wrote: »

It's not random and can be played around perfectly fine.

Even if you do it by accident, there is 7s until you can do it again. Which is easily enough to get a bow proc ready and any buffs/debuffs on your target.

I love the Incap stun because it means I can stun if my ability to stealth is being suppressed, but this is even better and I can go back to Soul Harvest.

its very random its more random than crystal frag or anything else the only thing happening whil be: oh i stunned this enemy the 100times again random after jsut walking around him(like everone does noone stands still)
-> u give away stun immo for free
incap stun is good yea better than this stange silence
,,even if u do it by accident" it will be 99,999999999999% accident and this ill promiss to u and even u will notice on life after 5min playing it that it is worse than current status

nublife01

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

About those changes to Veiled Strike, I have seen some mix reactions.

Most people say it is a nerf.

Some said it is a buff, since you will be able to get stun & Off Balance even if out of invisibility / stealth. Lets say you will get hit by some random AOE or sorc's hurricane etc - and you will still be able to trigger the CC.

Nonetheless - I think it is a nerf. You will have to be super lucky to trigger this effect as positioning in ESO is ultra - unreliable. YOU may see for example that you are attacking from flank / rear, but SERVER sees (because of lags) that you are attacking from the front.

Previously - it required just to be invisible / stealthed to trigger the Stun & Off Balance. Now, this combo will no longer be possible, as we will have positioning server RNG...

Also, this developer comment kinda implies that ZOS acknowledges that bugged invisibility / cloak and everything breaking it (even things that are not supposed to) is here to stay, thus they changed this skill... Almost as if they could not / be unwilling to fix invisibility mechanics.

the problem isnt that the server want accept the stun the bigger problem is that this condition ,,flank from the side" will be aktive like 90% of the time -> random stun -> random stuns are completly useless

and btw i was able to stun a stam sorc with max huricane with this stun atm u just need to know how to...

the guys who think its a buff are eater pretty new player or dont understand what the effect of this will be

Good players burst around their CC's and don't CC around their burst so I consider it as a buff (in no CP at least).

this is actually highly incorrect as pertaining to stamblade.

as a stamblade your burst is easily mitigated meaning you have to hide it and mix it up instead of having a direct combo. if you lead with a stun any half brained player is going to break free and dodge roll/spam their HOTs and mitigation abilities to prevent any further burst after CC from ulti.

also if you want your highest burst as nightblade in CP you have to bash weave as it procs the CP passive that does 10k damage if you block an enemies ability. in otherwords you want to cc midway through your burst as opposed to right away. if you watch a player like grimm for example he usually leads with spectral bow bash weave into cc from incap strike as opposed to leading with cc into burst. this is rather cc'ing around burst than bursting around CC's.

if i am dueling a nightblade after this fix i can easily control the fight against him by simply turning my back to him to receive CC immunity when i want it as nightblades do not do enough damage to kill most classes at full health.

the most optimum way to deal damage with our class is to hide when we are actually bursting our enemy and the change to the attack literally lets your opponent dictate when you can CC them and any good player will most certainly take advantage of that and that is why it is a nerf

Xologamer

nublife01 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

About those changes to Veiled Strike, I have seen some mix reactions.

Most people say it is a nerf.

Some said it is a buff, since you will be able to get stun & Off Balance even if out of invisibility / stealth. Lets say you will get hit by some random AOE or sorc's hurricane etc - and you will still be able to trigger the CC.

Nonetheless - I think it is a nerf. You will have to be super lucky to trigger this effect as positioning in ESO is ultra - unreliable. YOU may see for example that you are attacking from flank / rear, but SERVER sees (because of lags) that you are attacking from the front.

Previously - it required just to be invisible / stealthed to trigger the Stun & Off Balance. Now, this combo will no longer be possible, as we will have positioning server RNG...

Also, this developer comment kinda implies that ZOS acknowledges that bugged invisibility / cloak and everything breaking it (even things that are not supposed to) is here to stay, thus they changed this skill... Almost as if they could not / be unwilling to fix invisibility mechanics.

the problem isnt that the server want accept the stun the bigger problem is that this condition ,,flank from the side" will be aktive like 90% of the time -> random stun -> random stuns are completly useless

and btw i was able to stun a stam sorc with max huricane with this stun atm u just need to know how to...

the guys who think its a buff are eater pretty new player or dont understand what the effect of this will be

Good players burst around their CC's and don't CC around their burst so I consider it as a buff (in no CP at least).

this is actually highly incorrect as pertaining to stamblade.

as a stamblade your burst is easily mitigated meaning you have to hide it and mix it up instead of having a direct combo. if you lead with a stun any half brained player is going to break free and dodge roll/spam their HOTs and mitigation abilities to prevent any further burst after CC from ulti.

also if you want your highest burst as nightblade in CP you have to bash weave as it procs the CP passive that does 10k damage if you block an enemies ability. in otherwords you want to cc midway through your burst as opposed to right away. if you watch a player like grimm for example he usually leads with spectral bow bash weave into cc from incap strike as opposed to leading with cc into burst. this is rather cc'ing around burst than bursting around CC's.

if i am dueling a nightblade after this fix i can easily control the fight against him by simply turning my back to him to receive CC immunity when i want it as nightblades do not do enough damage to kill most classes at full health.

the most optimum way to deal damage with our class is to hide when we are actually bursting our enemy and the change to the attack literally lets your opponent dictate when you can CC them and any good player will most certainly take advantage of that and that is why it is a nerf

exactly what i tryed to say

ketsparrowhawk

Decimus wrote: »

Nothing random about the stun, it is guaranteed if the conditions are met.

But it's on an ability that you are literally spamming.. so the CC is getting applied non-strategically. Most PvPers don't want to CC enemies on cooldown because it gives them CC immunity and makes it more difficult to line up your kill-combo. Massive nerf imo.

nublife01

honestly all they need to do is revert this change, put major fracture back on surprise attack, and make marked for death be a damage debuff to targets like minor maim or something as opposed to applying major fracture (and maybe put a stamina cost on the ability or something). with these two simple changes nightblade is then balanced, BG viable, has group synergy, and can actually run dark cloak while not affecting PVE too much except maybe a minor buff to our damage which I have heard from PVE players would be nice for the class.

edit: like please if there is any way that i am actually wrong about this let me know but like ive thought about it and these two simple changes will definitely make the class viable again in my mind. i may actually make a post about it to further discuss.

Xologamer

nublife01 wrote: »

honestly all they need to do is revert this change, put major fracture back on surprise attack, and make marked for death be a damage debuff to targets like minor maim or something as opposed to applying major fracture (and maybe put a stamina cost on the ability or something). with these two simple changes nightblade is then balanced, BG viable, has group synergy, and can actually run dark cloak while not affecting PVE too much except maybe a minor buff to our damage which I have heard from PVE players would be nice for the class.

if u want fix nb reverse EVERYTHING done after summerset (was last patch where they didnt start cripple it)

nublife01

Xologamer wrote: »

nublife01 wrote: »

honestly all they need to do is revert this change, put major fracture back on surprise attack, and make marked for death be a damage debuff to targets like minor maim or something as opposed to applying major fracture (and maybe put a stamina cost on the ability or something). with these two simple changes nightblade is then balanced, BG viable, has group synergy, and can actually run dark cloak while not affecting PVE too much except maybe a minor buff to our damage which I have heard from PVE players would be nice for the class.

if u want fix nb reverse EVERYTHING done after summerset (was last patch where they didnt start cripple it)

a lot of what crippled nightblade wasnt just changes to the class but also changes to damage sets. there are definitely more but off the top of my head here's four of them: viper, shadow walker, spriggan, 7th legion (7th legion rework obliterated dark cloak builds). also other classes have received a healthy amount of buffs since that time. so no, simply reverting the class to its previous state would not fix the class imo.

Xologamer

nublife01 wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

nublife01 wrote: »

honestly all they need to do is revert this change, put major fracture back on surprise attack, and make marked for death be a damage debuff to targets like minor maim or something as opposed to applying major fracture (and maybe put a stamina cost on the ability or something). with these two simple changes nightblade is then balanced, BG viable, has group synergy, and can actually run dark cloak while not affecting PVE too much except maybe a minor buff to our damage which I have heard from PVE players would be nice for the class.

if u want fix nb reverse EVERYTHING done after summerset (was last patch where they didnt start cripple it)

a lot of what crippled nightblade wasnt just changes to the class but also changes to damage sets. there are definitely more but off the top of my head here's four of them: viper, shadow walker, spriggan, 7th legion (7th legion rework obliterated dark cloak builds). also other classes have received a healthy amount of buffs since that time. so no, simply reverting the class to its previous state would not fix the class imo.

yea the set nerfs wasnt that cool but the same patches where they got nerfed got new alternatives introducted e.g. nma

Decimus

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nothing random about the stun, it is guaranteed if the conditions are met.

But it's on an ability that you are literally spamming.. so the CC is getting applied non-strategically. Most PvPers don't want to CC enemies on cooldown because it gives them CC immunity and makes it more difficult to line up your kill-combo. Massive nerf imo.

You aren't spamming it though, not unless your target is CC'd or if you play a tank build.

The first scenario is because as has been written even by people who dislike the change, NB burst is very much about PIs & Spectral Bows (personally I don't even run Relentless as the burst is more than enough on Live, though this might change next patch with Bash change), then going for burst with Incap or SA stun - you can't stay and weave in melee range on a rollerblade or a high dmg build as NB doesn't have the survivability for that, nor the pressure to get through heals. The only time you can do that is when your opponent is CC'd or bursted to low health so that they can't exert pressure on you.

Nothing changes for these types of builds, you can still kite, PI, throw out spectral bows and then go for an Incap stun (or medium weave+Incap if CP).

In fact, now you can go for a SA stun as well without having to cloak in case 120 Incap isn't ready, this is huge for noCP in particular where an Off Balance Stun is a rare treat rather than the norm.


The second scenario where you build around tank sets, have like 2k weapon damage and need to weave to bring target low enough? Adapt.

There's been plenty of scenarios in this game where class skills have been altered and certain builds have had to make changes to how they build/play. This might mean building more around DoTs and spending GCDs applying them rather than using Surprise Attack for instance. Or just using a different spammable.

Xologamer

Decimus wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nothing random about the stun, it is guaranteed if the conditions are met.

But it's on an ability that you are literally spamming.. so the CC is getting applied non-strategically. Most PvPers don't want to CC enemies on cooldown because it gives them CC immunity and makes it more difficult to line up your kill-combo. Massive nerf imo.

You aren't spamming it though, not unless your target is CC'd or if you play a tank build.

The first scenario is because as has been written even by people who dislike the change, NB burst is very much about PIs & Spectral Bows (personally I don't even run Relentless as the burst is more than enough on Live, though this might change next patch with Bash change), then going for burst with Incap or SA stun - you can't stay and weave in melee range on a rollerblade or a high dmg build as NB doesn't have the survivability for that, nor the pressure to get through heals.

Nothing changes for these types of builds, you can still kite, PI, throw out spectral bows and then go for an Incap stun (or medium weave+Incap if CP).

In fact, now you can go for a SA stun as well without having to cloak in case 120 Incap isn't ready, this is huge for noCP in particular where an Off Balance Stun is a rare treat rather than the norm.


The second scenario where you build around tank sets, have like 2k weapon damage and need to weave to bring target low enough? Adapt.

There's been plenty of scenarios in this game where class skills have been altered and certain builds have had to make changes to how they build/play. This might mean building more around DoTs and spending GCDs applying them rather than using Surprise Attack for instance. Or just using a different spammable.

so i use 2dmg sets i have littely no defense and i still use suprice atack very often as tactical stun i play like: if health is above 40% than suprice atack(while doing that runing in circle around enemy to confuse them) la spam until bow or ult is ready when bow /ult is ready 1of 2things happen 1: ill invis suprice atack -> bow ->bash or ult ->la ->bow ->la ->suprice atack
if iam bellow 40% 1elan 1dodge 1cloak maybe shadow image than im max life and back to above 40% plan

what this means -> 50% of the fight im running in circles around an enemy and building up burst while preassuring him -> e.g. the fightersguild skill which requiers flank to has about ~60-80% uptime -> same would happen to suprice atack stun i would jsut give away the immunity for free and in my burst combos i wouldnt be able to stun anylonger -> everone rolls after 1.bow/ult -> rip combo

Xologamer

Xologamer wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Nothing random about the stun, it is guaranteed if the conditions are met.

But it's on an ability that you are literally spamming.. so the CC is getting applied non-strategically. Most PvPers don't want to CC enemies on cooldown because it gives them CC immunity and makes it more difficult to line up your kill-combo. Massive nerf imo.

You aren't spamming it though, not unless your target is CC'd or if you play a tank build.

The first scenario is because as has been written even by people who dislike the change, NB burst is very much about PIs & Spectral Bows (personally I don't even run Relentless as the burst is more than enough on Live, though this might change next patch with Bash change), then going for burst with Incap or SA stun - you can't stay and weave in melee range on a rollerblade or a high dmg build as NB doesn't have the survivability for that, nor the pressure to get through heals.

Nothing changes for these types of builds, you can still kite, PI, throw out spectral bows and then go for an Incap stun (or medium weave+Incap if CP).

In fact, now you can go for a SA stun as well without having to cloak in case 120 Incap isn't ready, this is huge for noCP in particular where an Off Balance Stun is a rare treat rather than the norm.


The second scenario where you build around tank sets, have like 2k weapon damage and need to weave to bring target low enough? Adapt.

There's been plenty of scenarios in this game where class skills have been altered and certain builds have had to make changes to how they build/play. This might mean building more around DoTs and spending GCDs applying them rather than using Surprise Attack for instance. Or just using a different spammable.

so i use 2dmg sets i have littely no defense and i still use suprice atack very often as tactical stun i play like: if health is above 40% than suprice atack(while doing that runing in circle around enemy to confuse them) la spam until bow or ult is ready when bow /ult is ready 1of 2things happen 1: ill invis suprice atack -> bow ->bash or ult ->la ->bow ->la ->suprice atack
if iam bellow 40% 1elan 1dodge 1cloak maybe shadow image than im max life and back to above 40% plan

what this means -> 50% of the fight im running in circles around an enemy and building up burst while preassuring him -> e.g. the fightersguild skill which requiers flank to has about ~60-80% uptime -> same would happen to suprice atack stun i would jsut give away the immunity for free and in my burst combos i wouldnt be able to stun anylonger -> everone rolls after 1.bow/ult -> rip combo

and btw suprice atack is even a good stun against enemys using aoe like hurricane u jsut need to know how to use it than its perfectly fine

Ragnaroek93

nublife01 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

About those changes to Veiled Strike, I have seen some mix reactions.

Most people say it is a nerf.

Some said it is a buff, since you will be able to get stun & Off Balance even if out of invisibility / stealth. Lets say you will get hit by some random AOE or sorc's hurricane etc - and you will still be able to trigger the CC.

Nonetheless - I think it is a nerf. You will have to be super lucky to trigger this effect as positioning in ESO is ultra - unreliable. YOU may see for example that you are attacking from flank / rear, but SERVER sees (because of lags) that you are attacking from the front.

Previously - it required just to be invisible / stealthed to trigger the Stun & Off Balance. Now, this combo will no longer be possible, as we will have positioning server RNG...

Also, this developer comment kinda implies that ZOS acknowledges that bugged invisibility / cloak and everything breaking it (even things that are not supposed to) is here to stay, thus they changed this skill... Almost as if they could not / be unwilling to fix invisibility mechanics.

the problem isnt that the server want accept the stun the bigger problem is that this condition ,,flank from the side" will be aktive like 90% of the time -> random stun -> random stuns are completly useless

and btw i was able to stun a stam sorc with max huricane with this stun atm u just need to know how to...

the guys who think its a buff are eater pretty new player or dont understand what the effect of this will be

Good players burst around their CC's and don't CC around their burst so I consider it as a buff (in no CP at least).

this is actually highly incorrect as pertaining to stamblade.

as a stamblade your burst is easily mitigated meaning you have to hide it and mix it up instead of having a direct combo. if you lead with a stun any half brained player is going to break free and dodge roll/spam their HOTs and mitigation abilities to prevent any further burst after CC from ulti.

also if you want your highest burst as nightblade in CP you have to bash weave as it procs the CP passive that does 10k damage if you block an enemies ability. in otherwords you want to cc midway through your burst as opposed to right away. if you watch a player like grimm for example he usually leads with spectral bow bash weave into cc from incap strike as opposed to leading with cc into burst. this is rather cc'ing around burst than bursting around CC's.

if i am dueling a nightblade after this fix i can easily control the fight against him by simply turning my back to him to receive CC immunity when i want it as nightblades do not do enough damage to kill most classes at full health.

the most optimum way to deal damage with our class is to hide when we are actually bursting our enemy and the change to the attack literally lets your opponent dictate when you can CC them and any good player will most certainly take advantage of that and that is why it is a nerf

But I can still do all of that...

Xologamer

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

nublife01 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

About those changes to Veiled Strike, I have seen some mix reactions.

Most people say it is a nerf.

Some said it is a buff, since you will be able to get stun & Off Balance even if out of invisibility / stealth. Lets say you will get hit by some random AOE or sorc's hurricane etc - and you will still be able to trigger the CC.

Nonetheless - I think it is a nerf. You will have to be super lucky to trigger this effect as positioning in ESO is ultra - unreliable. YOU may see for example that you are attacking from flank / rear, but SERVER sees (because of lags) that you are attacking from the front.

Previously - it required just to be invisible / stealthed to trigger the Stun & Off Balance. Now, this combo will no longer be possible, as we will have positioning server RNG...

Also, this developer comment kinda implies that ZOS acknowledges that bugged invisibility / cloak and everything breaking it (even things that are not supposed to) is here to stay, thus they changed this skill... Almost as if they could not / be unwilling to fix invisibility mechanics.

the problem isnt that the server want accept the stun the bigger problem is that this condition ,,flank from the side" will be aktive like 90% of the time -> random stun -> random stuns are completly useless

and btw i was able to stun a stam sorc with max huricane with this stun atm u just need to know how to...

the guys who think its a buff are eater pretty new player or dont understand what the effect of this will be

Good players burst around their CC's and don't CC around their burst so I consider it as a buff (in no CP at least).

this is actually highly incorrect as pertaining to stamblade.

as a stamblade your burst is easily mitigated meaning you have to hide it and mix it up instead of having a direct combo. if you lead with a stun any half brained player is going to break free and dodge roll/spam their HOTs and mitigation abilities to prevent any further burst after CC from ulti.

also if you want your highest burst as nightblade in CP you have to bash weave as it procs the CP passive that does 10k damage if you block an enemies ability. in otherwords you want to cc midway through your burst as opposed to right away. if you watch a player like grimm for example he usually leads with spectral bow bash weave into cc from incap strike as opposed to leading with cc into burst. this is rather cc'ing around burst than bursting around CC's.

if i am dueling a nightblade after this fix i can easily control the fight against him by simply turning my back to him to receive CC immunity when i want it as nightblades do not do enough damage to kill most classes at full health.

the most optimum way to deal damage with our class is to hide when we are actually bursting our enemy and the change to the attack literally lets your opponent dictate when you can CC them and any good player will most certainly take advantage of that and that is why it is a nerf

But I can still do all of that...

not anylonger if this change comes to live(what will happen)
cause everyone will just roll away if u start ur burst cause u cant stun anylonger