The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
The issue is resolved, and the North American PC/Mac megaserver is now available. Thank you for your patience!
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8100050/#Comment_8100050
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8100050/#Comment_8100050
Malacath's Band of Brutality, Crits, Proc Sets and p2w
MusCanus
✭✭✭✭✭
In noCP PvP basic crit damage modifier is 50-60% depending on class.
You can increase said modifier by Shadow mundus, certain sets, Minor force and Khajiit passives, but all of them are rightfully considered far from optimal and only work on certain niche builds.
The majority of players run 7 impen which gives 1806 (27%) crit resist, in the new patch you can push it even higher.
That leaves 23-33% crit damage modifier or lower.
Crit chance for most builds is around 40% at best or lower, if you're not willing to sacrifice most of other stats.
So on average you can get around 9-13% additional damage through crits, or lower.
Malacath's Band of Brutality increases all damage done by 25% all the time.
On average it's 12-16% more damage than through crits.
Theoretically you can still deal around 8% more burst damage with crits, but if your combo consists of at least 3 damage instances, the chance of that happening is around 6% or less. So in most cases you burst will be comparable or higher with Band of Brutality than with crits.
But that is without proc sets. Proc sets damage can't crit but can be increased by Band of Brutality. Thus you can not only deal 12-16% more damage on average with you abilities but also deal 25% more damage with any proc set cheese you prefer. That allows an absurd amount of burst and pressure in comparison to builds without the Band.
And all that is in expense of 1 equip slot. Given that most popular monster sets got nerfed in the new patch, it won't be much of a sacrifice in a lot of cases. Very convenient, huh?
Said all that, I think it is only fair and logical to make proc sets crit again OR make Band of Brutality not work on them. It would still outperform most builds without it, and by far, but at least not by such absurd amounts. Otherwise it can be rightfully considered pure p2w since it requires both the Greymoor expansion and Orsinium DLC to acquire.
P.S.: Certain classes (NB and Sorc) are in even worse situation. Even if they opt to use Band of Brutality, they'll be at disadvantage still, cause parts of their kits dedicated to crits will become useless.
P.P.S.: Before people start arguing that proc sets are bad for the game and shouldn't be even a thing. Well, those sets are already here and won't go anywhere, so the issue should be addressed one way or another.
#MakeProcSetsCritAgain
You can increase said modifier by Shadow mundus, certain sets, Minor force and Khajiit passives, but all of them are rightfully considered far from optimal and only work on certain niche builds.
The majority of players run 7 impen which gives 1806 (27%) crit resist, in the new patch you can push it even higher.
That leaves 23-33% crit damage modifier or lower.
Crit chance for most builds is around 40% at best or lower, if you're not willing to sacrifice most of other stats.
So on average you can get around 9-13% additional damage through crits, or lower.
Malacath's Band of Brutality increases all damage done by 25% all the time.
On average it's 12-16% more damage than through crits.
Theoretically you can still deal around 8% more burst damage with crits, but if your combo consists of at least 3 damage instances, the chance of that happening is around 6% or less. So in most cases you burst will be comparable or higher with Band of Brutality than with crits.
But that is without proc sets. Proc sets damage can't crit but can be increased by Band of Brutality. Thus you can not only deal 12-16% more damage on average with you abilities but also deal 25% more damage with any proc set cheese you prefer. That allows an absurd amount of burst and pressure in comparison to builds without the Band.
And all that is in expense of 1 equip slot. Given that most popular monster sets got nerfed in the new patch, it won't be much of a sacrifice in a lot of cases. Very convenient, huh?
Said all that, I think it is only fair and logical to make proc sets crit again OR make Band of Brutality not work on them. It would still outperform most builds without it, and by far, but at least not by such absurd amounts. Otherwise it can be rightfully considered pure p2w since it requires both the Greymoor expansion and Orsinium DLC to acquire.
P.S.: Certain classes (NB and Sorc) are in even worse situation. Even if they opt to use Band of Brutality, they'll be at disadvantage still, cause parts of their kits dedicated to crits will become useless.
P.P.S.: Before people start arguing that proc sets are bad for the game and shouldn't be even a thing. Well, those sets are already here and won't go anywhere, so the issue should be addressed one way or another.
#MakeProcSetsCritAgain
24
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Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭On average it's 12-16% more damage than through crits.
Can you share your PTS testing screenshots that support this number, @MusCanus?
Because that hasn't been my experience in No-CP Cyrodiil on PTS.
Also, I think you're forgetting that most players will be losing a 5-piece bonus just to wear Malacath's Band. Most forum-goers are trying a setup with a second 5-piece bonus on front and back bar ... but not both bars.
I've been running one 5-piece set (Titanborn) with Arena weapons and a monster set ... plus two (2) Agility jewelry.
1 -
MusCanus✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »
Screenshots of what exactly? If there were a target dummy that would represent an average player in noCP PvP with the most popular amount of crit resist, I could. Would it be necessary?
All of the numbers are pure math arithmetic. Which of the premises do you challenge exactly?
50-60% base crit modifier, 40% crit chance at best or 27% crit resist?Edited by MusCanus on April 30, 2020 9:59PM10 -
tsaescishoeshiner✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Locking content behind paywalls is not pay-to-win. The antiquities system applies to all regions of the game, just like the justice and housing systems. I'd rather they add new systems than forget about old zones
If proc sets could crit, their damage would probably have to be greatly reduced in order to make up for the RNG. Getting insta-gibbed by two fat set crits isn't going to have counterplay. Without sets critting, there's reason to stack other kinds of damage bonuses (like Malacath's Band), which fosters build diversity
The 25% damage increase could hurt with sets like Caluurion — but sets like that are already built to be dodged, infrequent, or difficult to land. Idk if 25% is too much, tho
What do you think of the other Mythic items for PvP? Since you can only wear onePC-NA
in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner2 -
MusCanus✭✭✭✭✭
As I wrote most popular monster sets got nerfed.Taleof2Cities wrote: »Also, I think you're forgetting that most players will be losing a 5-piece bonus just to wear Malacath's Band. Most forum-goers are trying a setup with a second 5-piece bonus on front and back bar ... but not both bars.
I've been running one 5-piece set (Titanborn) with Arena weapons and a monster set ... plus two (2) Agility jewelry.
So you can also easily run
5 - 5 - Band - 1 monster
5 frontbar - 5 backbar - 2 Agility/Willpower - Band - 1 monster
It's the definition of it. If you can come with a better one I'd like to hear it.tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Locking content behind paywalls is not pay-to-win.
As I also wrote, there won't be much difference in burst. You will be able deal more damage with crits, but not much more and only if you're lucky and everything actually crits. The only difference is you might be insta-gibbed by two fat set crits or you certainly will with two fat set procs increased by Band.tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »If proc sets could crit, their damage would probably have to be greatly reduced in order to make up for the RNG. Getting insta-gibbed by two fat set crits isn't going to have counterplay. Without sets critting, there's reason to stack other kinds of damage bonuses (like Malacath's Band), which fosters build diversity
Thrassian Stranglers won't be viable unless on some suicide bomber build. It might be fun but tedious to get stacks.tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »What do you think of the other Mythic items for PvP? Since you can only wear one
Ring of the Wild Hunt basically allows you to get 3 more swift traits in combat and become a literal Flash out of combat if you actually make it and 2 other jewelries swift too. Ever wanted to contest sorcs' streak, lol?
Snow Treaders might work if you build a lot of basic speed, but snare removal abilities are not hard to use. So i think it's meh, as the other 2.
I may be wrong though, haven't put much thought into other mythic items.Edited by MusCanus on April 30, 2020 10:00PM5 -
Greek_Hellspawn✭✭✭✭In noCP PvP basic crit damage modifier is 50-60% depending on class.
You can increase said modifier by Shadow mundus, certain sets, Minor force and Khajiit passives, but all of them are rightfully considered far from optimal and only work on certain niche builds.
The majority of players run 7 impen which gives 1806 (27%) crit resist, in the new patch you can push it even higher.
That leaves 23-33% crit damage modifier or lower.
Crit chance for most builds is around 40% at best or lower, if you're not willing to sacrifice most of other stats.
So on average you can get around 9-13% additional damage through crits, or lower.
Malacath's Band of Brutality increases all damage done by 25% all the time.
On average it's 12-16% more damage than through crits.
Theoretically you can still deal around 8% more burst damage with crits, but if your combo consists of at least 3 damage instances, the chance of that happening is around 6% or less. So in most cases you burst will be comparable or higher with Band of Brutality than with crits.
But that is without proc sets. Proc sets damage can't crit but can be increased by Band of Brutality. Thus you can not only deal 12-16% more damage on average with you abilities but also deal 25% more damage with any proc set cheese you prefer. That allows an absurd amount of burst and pressure in comparison to builds without the Band.
And all that is in expense of 1 equip slot. Given that most popular monster sets got nerfed in the new patch, it won't be much of a sacrifice in a lot of cases. Very convenient, huh?
Said all that, I think it is only fair and logical to make proc sets crit again OR make Band of Brutality not work on them. It would still outperform most builds without it, and by far, but at least not by such absurd amounts. Otherwise it can be rightfully considered pure p2w since it requires both the Greymoor expansion and Orsinium DLC to acquire.
P.S.: Certain classes (NB and Sorc) are in even worse situation. Even if they opt to use Band of Brutality, they'll be at disadvantage still, cause parts of their kits dedicated to crits will become useless.
P.P.S.: Before people start arguing that proc sets are bad for the game and shouldn't be even a thing. Well, those sets are already here and won't go anywhere, so the issue should be addressed one way or another.
#MakeProcSetsCritAgain
Don't forget that zos is a company so if they don't release new op sets then they won't sell as much chapters and that means that they will lose money, so at the beginning they don't care what you or I think cause as i said they are a company and want to make money.
Then 1 or 2 dlcs later when they have made their money they will either nerf whatever op set they released or they will make another more op set.
I don't like it either but i get it that behind the game there is a company that just as any other company wants to make money, so you either buy the dlc and get whatever set is op or just try to make use of what you already have.3 -
MusCanus✭✭✭✭✭
If new chapters worth only as much as the new op sets in them, they're bad chapters, lol. They could've just made op sets, put them in crown store and call it a day. Personally I enjoy most of the quests and stories in ESO, almost as much as I loathe its performance and devs' approach to balancing. But being obliged to buy a new chapter to be competitive in PvP is p2w even if the chapter itself is great.Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »In noCP PvP basic crit damage modifier is 50-60% depending on class.
You can increase said modifier by Shadow mundus, certain sets, Minor force and Khajiit passives, but all of them are rightfully considered far from optimal and only work on certain niche builds.
The majority of players run 7 impen which gives 1806 (27%) crit resist, in the new patch you can push it even higher.
That leaves 23-33% crit damage modifier or lower.
Crit chance for most builds is around 40% at best or lower, if you're not willing to sacrifice most of other stats.
So on average you can get around 9-13% additional damage through crits, or lower.
Malacath's Band of Brutality increases all damage done by 25% all the time.
On average it's 12-16% more damage than through crits.
Theoretically you can still deal around 8% more burst damage with crits, but if your combo consists of at least 3 damage instances, the chance of that happening is around 6% or less. So in most cases you burst will be comparable or higher with Band of Brutality than with crits.
But that is without proc sets. Proc sets damage can't crit but can be increased by Band of Brutality. Thus you can not only deal 12-16% more damage on average with you abilities but also deal 25% more damage with any proc set cheese you prefer. That allows an absurd amount of burst and pressure in comparison to builds without the Band.
And all that is in expense of 1 equip slot. Given that most popular monster sets got nerfed in the new patch, it won't be much of a sacrifice in a lot of cases. Very convenient, huh?
Said all that, I think it is only fair and logical to make proc sets crit again OR make Band of Brutality not work on them. It would still outperform most builds without it, and by far, but at least not by such absurd amounts. Otherwise it can be rightfully considered pure p2w since it requires both the Greymoor expansion and Orsinium DLC to acquire.
P.S.: Certain classes (NB and Sorc) are in even worse situation. Even if they opt to use Band of Brutality, they'll be at disadvantage still, cause parts of their kits dedicated to crits will become useless.
P.P.S.: Before people start arguing that proc sets are bad for the game and shouldn't be even a thing. Well, those sets are already here and won't go anywhere, so the issue should be addressed one way or another.
#MakeProcSetsCritAgain
Don't forget that zos is a company so if they don't release new op sets then they won't sell as much chaptersEdited by MusCanus on April 30, 2020 10:21PM11 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »On average it's 12-16% more damage than through crits.
Can you share your PTS testing screenshots that support this number, @MusCanus?
Because that hasn't been my experience in No-CP Cyrodiil on PTS.
Also, I think you're forgetting that most players will be losing a 5-piece bonus just to wear Malacath's Band. Most forum-goers are trying a setup with a second 5-piece bonus on front and back bar ... but not both bars.
I've been running one 5-piece set (Titanborn) with Arena weapons and a monster set ... plus two (2) Agility jewelry.
Very good points. Especially asking OP to share the proof of their testing as we have seen very misleading claims in the forums that screenshots demonstrated other major factors were in play.
Also, the P2W claims are pretty old. New gear is added with pretty much every DLC so get over it.4 -
MusCanus✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »On average it's 12-16% more damage than through crits.
Can you share your PTS testing screenshots that support this number, @MusCanus?
Because that hasn't been my experience in No-CP Cyrodiil on PTS.
Also, I think you're forgetting that most players will be losing a 5-piece bonus just to wear Malacath's Band. Most forum-goers are trying a setup with a second 5-piece bonus on front and back bar ... but not both bars.
I've been running one 5-piece set (Titanborn) with Arena weapons and a monster set ... plus two (2) Agility jewelry.
Very good points. Especially asking OP to share the proof of their testing as we have seen very misleading claims in the forums that screenshots demonstrated other major factors were in play.
Also, the P2W claims are pretty old. New gear is added with pretty much every DLC so get over it.
If you couldn't get past the second post, I'll repeat.
What kind of proof that math works do you want to see? There isn't such thing as PvP dummy to demonstrate it.
Which one of the premises on which all the other numbers are based do you challenge?
50-60% base crit modifier, 40% crit chance at best or 27% crit resist?10 -
Greek_Hellspawn✭✭✭✭
If new chapters worth only as much as the new op sets in them, they're bad chapters, lol. They could've just made op sets, put them in crown store and call it a day. Personally I enjoy most of the quests and stories in ESO, almost as much as I loathe its performance and devs' approach to balancing. But being obliged to buy a new chapter to be competitive in PvP is p2w even if the chapter itself is great.Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »In noCP PvP basic crit damage modifier is 50-60% depending on class.
You can increase said modifier by Shadow mundus, certain sets, Minor force and Khajiit passives, but all of them are rightfully considered far from optimal and only work on certain niche builds.
The majority of players run 7 impen which gives 1806 (27%) crit resist, in the new patch you can push it even higher.
That leaves 23-33% crit damage modifier or lower.
Crit chance for most builds is around 40% at best or lower, if you're not willing to sacrifice most of other stats.
So on average you can get around 9-13% additional damage through crits, or lower.
Malacath's Band of Brutality increases all damage done by 25% all the time.
On average it's 12-16% more damage than through crits.
Theoretically you can still deal around 8% more burst damage with crits, but if your combo consists of at least 3 damage instances, the chance of that happening is around 6% or less. So in most cases you burst will be comparable or higher with Band of Brutality than with crits.
But that is without proc sets. Proc sets damage can't crit but can be increased by Band of Brutality. Thus you can not only deal 12-16% more damage on average with you abilities but also deal 25% more damage with any proc set cheese you prefer. That allows an absurd amount of burst and pressure in comparison to builds without the Band.
And all that is in expense of 1 equip slot. Given that most popular monster sets got nerfed in the new patch, it won't be much of a sacrifice in a lot of cases. Very convenient, huh?
Said all that, I think it is only fair and logical to make proc sets crit again OR make Band of Brutality not work on them. It would still outperform most builds without it, and by far, but at least not by such absurd amounts. Otherwise it can be rightfully considered pure p2w since it requires both the Greymoor expansion and Orsinium DLC to acquire.
P.S.: Certain classes (NB and Sorc) are in even worse situation. Even if they opt to use Band of Brutality, they'll be at disadvantage still, cause parts of their kits dedicated to crits will become useless.
P.P.S.: Before people start arguing that proc sets are bad for the game and shouldn't be even a thing. Well, those sets are already here and won't go anywhere, so the issue should be addressed one way or another.
#MakeProcSetsCritAgain
Don't forget that zos is a company so if they don't release new op sets then they won't sell as much chapters
Yeah the chapters would sell either way even if op set were not included, but I don't think they would sell as much as they sell now you get me?
I think at least 10% of those who buy the dlc do it because as you said want to be competitive, just because of the new sets, and the other 90% enjoy the story/quests.
Also if they just put the sets in the crown store this would be literally the p2w your mention cause you literally buy it, not like they way it is now, now you buy it first then play the actual dlc then get the gear.
Overall i agree with you about the ring i just put myself into zos position.0 -
tsaescishoeshiner✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
It's the definition of it. If you can come with a better one I'd like to hear it.tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Locking content behind paywalls is not pay-to-win.
Fair.
The way I see it, plenty of content is locked behind paywalls - bound item sets (trials, arenas, dungeons), cosmetics, skill lines like Psijic. If these things ARE pay-to-win, and ESO should have 0 pay-to-win, then all our new content would have to not introduce new Trials, Arenas, Dungeons, skill lines, or sets. I would rather earn new things when I buy new content
Idk about a formal definition so feel free to nitpick this one, but pay-to-win is when an exclusive (or arduously grind-y without paying) competitive advantage is conferred just by paying for something. Sunspire trial gear isn't pay-to-win just because you have to pay for Elsweyr. Mythic items aren't pay-to-win just because you have to pay for Chapters & DLC's. Skill lines aren't pay-to-win because you can just level them. You still need to earn all this stuff, and you don't need it. The fact that Sunspire gear is preferred (not by everyone) for endgame PvE doesn't make it pay-to-win, it just means they successfully created sets that are good
And we don't even know whether Malacath's Toe Ring will be a preferred BiS set, anyway
I would much rather have a reason to go back to Wrothgar than have them ignore it when they introduce new systems
Antiquities is a System (like Justice or housing), so it applies throughout the game. The devs in a stream a while ago said they feel it's the biggest system update they've made to the game since HomesteadPC-NA
in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner6 -
Luckylancer✭✭✭✭✭Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »
Don't forget that zos is a company so if they don't release new op sets then they won't sell as much chapters and that means that they will lose money, so at the beginning they don't care what you or I think cause as i said they are a company and want to make money.
Then 1 or 2 dlcs later when they have made their money they will either nerf whatever op set they released or they will make another more op set.
I don't like it either but i get it that behind the game there is a company that just as any other company wants to make money, so you either buy the dlc and get whatever set is op or just try to make use of what you already have.
"they are a company" does not mean consumers cant protest. I want the game I play an endless chase of p2w. I agree with OP and state this myticals are p2w whenerver I can.
I dont spend money on game because of lags+p2w and I want to be vocal about this. So others can see this, we will vote with our walletd and try to make a change. Dont treat these companies like god.
Companies can get my money when they make something worthy. If they can always get my money, they will make shity stuff like gamble-boxes.Edited by Luckylancer on May 1, 2020 7:32AM9 -
MusCanus✭✭✭✭✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »
It's the definition of it. If you can come with a better one I'd like to hear it.tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Locking content behind paywalls is not pay-to-win.
Fair.
The way I see it, plenty of content is locked behind paywalls - bound item sets (trials, arenas, dungeons), cosmetics, skill lines like Psijic. If these things ARE pay-to-win, and ESO should have 0 pay-to-win, then all our new content would have to not introduce new Trials, Arenas, Dungeons, skill lines, or sets. I would rather earn new things when I buy new content
Idk about a formal definition so feel free to nitpick this one, but pay-to-win is when an exclusive (or arduously grind-y without paying) competitive advantage is conferred just by paying for something. Sunspire trial gear isn't pay-to-win just because you have to pay for Elsweyr. Mythic items aren't pay-to-win just because you have to pay for Chapters & DLC's. Skill lines aren't pay-to-win because you can just level them. You still need to earn all this stuff, and you don't need it. The fact that Sunspire gear is preferred (not by everyone) for endgame PvE doesn't make it pay-to-win, it just means they successfully created sets that are good
And we don't even know whether Malacath's Toe Ring will be a preferred BiS set, anyway
I would much rather have a reason to go back to Wrothgar than have them ignore it when they introduce new systems
Antiquities is a System (like Justice or housing), so it applies throughout the game. The devs in a stream a while ago said they feel it's the biggest system update they've made to the game since Homestead
There is truth in what you say, but it all boils down to how much of an advantage the new sets or new skill lines or whatever give. If it's slight, something like single digit %, I don't care, but Malacath's Band is another matter. It certainly won't become BiS in PvE or CP PvP, but in noCP it'll bite you in the ass, and hard, you'll see. And everyone else for that matter.1 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »so easy fix, just dont have the band apply to proc sets. done.
That would be the logical thing to do, but can we trust the geniuses at ZOS to come to this conclusion?1 -
Hanokihs✭✭✭✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »so easy fix, just dont have the band apply to proc sets. done.
That would be the logical thing to do, but can we trust the geniuses at ZOS to come to this conclusion?
Even if they do, the moment they change it, the other half of the playerbase will complain that the item is now completely useless and not worth doing antiquities to obtain. And they really want to push antiquities, if only because of all the effort they put into making that system. So it's not really a matter of them not coming to the conclusion, but instead, a matter of "How can we get people hyped for this minigame we made? Aah! We'll put OP bound gear in there - genius!"
Which will work. So... Good job, actually. Smart move."I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum."I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.0 -
MusCanus✭✭✭✭✭
All the effort of making a boring minesweeper minigame?And they really want to push antiquities, if only because of all the effort they put into making that system.
Again, if the system isn't interesting to play and only worth going through to get the OP stuff, it is a bad system.OG_Kaveman wrote: »so easy fix, just dont have the band apply to proc sets. done.
That would be the logical thing to do, but can we trust the geniuses at ZOS to come to this conclusion?
Even if they do, the moment they change it, the other half of the playerbase will complain that the item is now completely useless and not worth doing antiquities to obtain.
So it is neither good job, nor smart move.3 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Again, if the system isn't interesting to play and only worth going through to get the OP stuff, it is a bad system.
Except there is nothing that is OP, @MusCanus.
We're still waiting for you to share your PTS combat testing screenshots, Combat Log, or CMX parse with the mythic items ...1 -
MusCanus✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Again, if the system isn't interesting to play and only worth going through to get the OP stuff, it is a bad system.
Except there is nothing that is OP, @MusCanus.
We're still waiting for you to share your PTS combat testing screenshots, Combat Log, or CMX parse with the mythic items ...
Reread my second post as a response to you and try to formulate something meaningful, or refrain from posting if you are unable to do so.6 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PvP is already a meme on live, but next patch...
I find it hard to even stay logged into the game these days, when it works!0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree with OP. Malacath should not boost the dmg of proccsets.
PC EU
PvP only5 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OP? Yes. Gives to proc set +/- same damage they would deal in PVP right now if they could crit, except with 100% chance.
P2W? No. Nearly everything in the game is behind some paywall, thats how games works. If we call this p2w then that 'term' lost any meaning anymore as it would apply to almost every online game.0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They said they wanted something for everyone in the new system, a pure pvper would have little to no motivation to buy the new chapter.
Welcome to business 101, where they create the demand and supply alike.
I'm a bit worried in bgs malacath will be very popular with sets like azureblight.1 -
MusCanus✭✭✭✭✭OP? Yes. Gives to proc set +/- same damage they would deal in PVP right now if they could crit, except with 100% chance.
P2W? No. Nearly everything in the game is behind some paywall, thats how games works. If we call this p2w then that 'term' lost any meaning anymore as it would apply to almost every online game.
It is OP and it is behind a paywall contradicts it is not p2w. For it not to be p2w at least one the first two statements has to be false.
That's called logic and claiming the opposite is called denial.13 -
daemonor✭✭✭✭Out of all the negatives this game has, being p2w is not one of them. Pay to win is something more powerful than obtainable items you buy literally out the cash shop. A good example is private servers of some MMOs with their custom items/donate items. I would probably agree with everything else negative you point out about ZoS practices, but people need to stop spreading this ridicoulous idea of wardens/necros and now the mythic items being pay to win. You won't win jack just by paying to play necro and obtaining the ring by actually playing the game, you still have to be pretty damn good at it.1
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SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OP? Yes. Gives to proc set +/- same damage they would deal in PVP right now if they could crit, except with 100% chance.
P2W? No. Nearly everything in the game is behind some paywall, thats how games works. If we call this p2w then that 'term' lost any meaning anymore as it would apply to almost every online game.
It is OP and it is behind a paywall contradicts it is not p2w. For it not to be p2w at least one the first two statements has to be false.
That's called logic and claiming the opposite is called denial.
It only contradicts it if you consider any form of paywall between yourself and item of stronger nature pay2win. That would be incorrect and very washed out meaning of pay2win. In this definition of pay to win the game has been pay to win since start and therefore adding one more item does not change nature of this game in any way and you are playing wrong game.3 -
Sharrum✭✭✭So are WoW expansions p2w? It locks new zone/raids gear out of players who dont buy the newest exp after all :shrug
Edited by Sharrum on May 3, 2020 2:22PM3 -
Beaverton✭✭✭25% damage increase on VD procs doesn't really seem all that OP.
Edited by Beaverton on May 3, 2020 2:55PMChook (fill in the blank) or Chookana (likewise): I learn more by dying so teach me some more!0 -
MusCanus✭✭✭✭✭
You agreed that the Ring is OP. "Item of stronger nature" doesn't equal "overpowered". Can you name another item that is both OP and behind a paywall?OP? Yes. Gives to proc set +/- same damage they would deal in PVP right now if they could crit, except with 100% chance.
P2W? No. Nearly everything in the game is behind some paywall, thats how games works. If we call this p2w then that 'term' lost any meaning anymore as it would apply to almost every online game.
It is OP and it is behind a paywall contradicts it is not p2w. For it not to be p2w at least one the first two statements has to be false.
That's called logic and claiming the opposite is called denial.
It only contradicts it if you consider any form of paywall between yourself and item of stronger nature pay2win. That would be incorrect and very washed out meaning of pay2win. In this definition of pay to win the game has been pay to win since start and therefore adding one more item does not change nature of this game in any way and you are playing wrong game.
I don't think it really has to be spoon-fed like that further, but imagine there are two items behind a paywall, one gives you 1% more damage, another one gives 100% more. The first one isn't p2w cause the advantage is hardly noticeable, the second one surely is (or are you gonna argue that as well?). Now, where are you ready to draw the line between them?
Same question, where do you draw the line? Is it just "literally buying it out of the cash shop" or is it determined by the actual power of the item behind a paywall?Out of all the negatives this game has, being p2w is not one of them. Pay to win is something more powerful than obtainable items you buy literally out the cash shop. A good example is private servers of some MMOs with their custom items/donate items. I would probably agree with everything else negative you point out about ZoS practices, but people need to stop spreading this ridicoulous idea of wardens/necros and now the mythic items being pay to win. You won't win jack just by paying to play necro and obtaining the ring by actually playing the game, you still have to be pretty damn good at it.
[Edit to remove quote]Edited by [Deleted User] on May 5, 2020 11:09PM4 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭In my view, there are 2 over-arching goals of balance in PvP: Inter-Class Balance, and Intra-Class Diversity. I see the ability of the Malacath ring to buff proc sets to be beneficial to Intra-Class Diversity, but I'm not sure about how it might affect Inter-Class Balance. In that regard I completely understand the desire to have the ring make the Crit Damage Modifier = 1, rather than Crit Chance = 0, so that Sorcs and NBs can use it effectively, and to keep proc sets which require a Crit to proc relevant, in the interest of Intra-Class Diversity.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast3