Urzigurumash wrote: »have the ring make the Crit Damage Modifier = 1, rather than Crit Chance = 0, so that Sorcs and NBs can use it effectively.
Let's play a game. Caluurion's Legacy. Now name the next good for pvp set tied to crits.Urzigurumash wrote: »keep proc sets which require a Crit to proc relevant, in the interest of Intra-Class Diversity.
NB has the most crit related kit out of all classes, it's:Urzigurumash wrote: »if there is some reason why NBs absolutely need a Crit Damage Modifier > 1 to function, enlighten me.
As an apology for being derisive or rude to you, I'll reiterate the point of my opening post.Urzigurumash wrote: »Why do you care whether Malacath buffs proc sets?
Other classes have far less crit related passives/abilities, so NBs suffer the most.
Malacath's allows you to do deal more damage on average (thus pressure) and comparable or higher burst even without proc sets. If you add proc sets to that, it just becomes absurd.
Urzigurumash wrote: »I agree, regardless of the Malacath ring, that proc sets should crit, as it is clearly inequitable for NBs that they do not, so much of their class budget being devoted to Crit. I suppose Caluurion's may solve this for MagNB, but Vicecannon, Defiler, etc., may not be strong enough to compensate for StamNB.
Since we are headed into a high damage patch, I don't see what the downside is to increase damage even further by allowing procs to crit. It also isn't advertised anywhere that they do not, to my knowledge, so there may well be many newer players taking the Shadow or putting points into Precise Strikes thinking it will buff their proc sets. Unless you tested whether or not your procs can crit, you would probably assume they do. Likewise, I don't see the downside to allowing Malacath to buff procs, regardless of whether procs crit. It means you can't run certain builds or sets, so like I said, in my view it will engender intra-class build diversity. I anticipate, in other words, it would diminish the number of players running NMA frontbar and Potatoes / BRP DW backbar.
In this regard I expect your issue is that the Malacath ring will expand the gap between NB and other classes, but I think you may perhaps be thinking too myopically. By your own admission you haven't really contemplated the impact of the other Mythic items. My impression is that NBs do in fact benefit the least from the array of Mythic items, but I'm a clueless fool.
If your issue is strictly that it won't make sense to wear the Malacath ring and invest into Crit for the purposes of Crit Healing, ok, don't use it? Granted my bias as a StamDK means I don't care about Crit Healing whatsoever, since to my knowledge for years our class heal scaled off of Spell Crit, rather than Weapon Crit. I believe this has been changed now, but old habits die hard, and also I'm a poorly informed idiot scratching in the dirt.
If your issue is simply that since proc sets cannot crit, there is no trade-off for proc builds to use the Malacath ring, that is quite logical, but countered by the fact that proc builds are outperformed by flat damage builds on live - to my benighted perception.
That was my point from the start: either make proc sets crit or make Malacath's not work on them. I still think it'll be kinda OP noCP, but at least bearable.
Urzigurumash wrote: »I don't think Heem-Ja's is an abundantly popular set in Cyro, certainly not as popular as NMA, so maybe this 25% buff isn't as vicious as it sounds in the end?
Urzigurumash wrote: »I don't think Heem-Ja's is an abundantly popular set in Cyro, certainly not as popular as NMA, so maybe this 25% buff isn't as vicious as it sounds in the end?
+25% for 5 secs when somebody in the vicinity dies is a little bit less uptime and damage than +25% all the time. Even if your crits aren't completely mitigated by someones crit resist.
You agreed that the Ring is OP. "Item of stronger nature" doesn't equal "overpowered". Can you name another item that is both OP and behind a paywall?OP? Yes. Gives to proc set +/- same damage they would deal in PVP right now if they could crit, except with 100% chance.
P2W? No. Nearly everything in the game is behind some paywall, thats how games works. If we call this p2w then that 'term' lost any meaning anymore as it would apply to almost every online game.
It is OP and it is behind a paywall contradicts it is not p2w. For it not to be p2w at least one the first two statements has to be false.
That's called logic and claiming the opposite is called denial.
It only contradicts it if you consider any form of paywall between yourself and item of stronger nature pay2win. That would be incorrect and very washed out meaning of pay2win. In this definition of pay to win the game has been pay to win since start and therefore adding one more item does not change nature of this game in any way and you are playing wrong game.
I don't think it really has to be spoon-fed like that further, but imagine there are two items behind a paywall, one gives you 1% more damage, another one gives 100% more. The first one isn't p2w cause the advantage is hardly noticeable, the second one surely is (or are you gonna argue that as well?). Now, where are you ready to draw the line between them?
So, whatever it is, if it has to be unboxed first, then it's ok, if it comes without package, then it's not. Lol, ok, I got it, thanks. No more questions for ya. I wonder why did I even bother.You agreed that the Ring is OP. "Item of stronger nature" doesn't equal "overpowered". Can you name another item that is both OP and behind a paywall?OP? Yes. Gives to proc set +/- same damage they would deal in PVP right now if they could crit, except with 100% chance.
P2W? No. Nearly everything in the game is behind some paywall, thats how games works. If we call this p2w then that 'term' lost any meaning anymore as it would apply to almost every online game.
It is OP and it is behind a paywall contradicts it is not p2w. For it not to be p2w at least one the first two statements has to be false.
That's called logic and claiming the opposite is called denial.
It only contradicts it if you consider any form of paywall between yourself and item of stronger nature pay2win. That would be incorrect and very washed out meaning of pay2win. In this definition of pay to win the game has been pay to win since start and therefore adding one more item does not change nature of this game in any way and you are playing wrong game.
I don't think it really has to be spoon-fed like that further, but imagine there are two items behind a paywall, one gives you 1% more damage, another one gives 100% more. The first one isn't p2w cause the advantage is hardly noticeable, the second one surely is (or are you gonna argue that as well?). Now, where are you ready to draw the line between them?
Neither is p2w if both come from DLC to the game. Both would be p2w if they appeared on crown store. Simple enough for ya or still struggling to grasp the concept here?
The main problem which I see all mythic items are locked not only P2W wall but mainly stupid boring farming for no lifers like metin 2 or line age 2 or other games where skill has zero influcnce on your performance but no life farm to win...but this is even worst. strongest items in gameIn noCP PvP basic crit damage modifier is 50-60% depending on class.
You can increase said modifier by Shadow mundus, certain sets, Minor force and Khajiit passives, but all of them are rightfully considered far from optimal and only work on certain niche builds.
The majority of players run 7 impen which gives 1806 (27%) crit resist, in the new patch you can push it even higher.
That leaves 23-33% crit damage modifier or lower.
Crit chance for most builds is around 40% at best or lower, if you're not willing to sacrifice most of other stats.
So on average you can get around 9-13% additional damage through crits, or lower.
Malacath's Band of Brutality increases all damage done by 25% all the time.
On average it's 12-16% more damage than through crits.
Theoretically you can still deal around 8% more burst damage with crits, but if your combo consists of at least 3 damage instances, the chance of that happening is around 6% or less. So in most cases you burst will be comparable or higher with Band of Brutality than with crits.
But that is without proc sets. Proc sets damage can't crit but can be increased by Band of Brutality. Thus you can not only deal 12-16% more damage on average with you abilities but also deal 25% more damage with any proc set cheese you prefer. That allows an absurd amount of burst and pressure in comparison to builds without the Band.
And all that is in expense of 1 equip slot. Given that most popular monster sets got nerfed in the new patch, it won't be much of a sacrifice in a lot of cases. Very convenient, huh?
Said all that, I think it is only fair and logical to make proc sets crit again OR make Band of Brutality not work on them. It would still outperform most builds without it, and by far, but at least not by such absurd amounts. Otherwise it can be rightfully considered pure p2w since it requires both the Greymoor expansion and Orsinium DLC to acquire.
P.S.: Certain classes (NB and Sorc) are in even worse situation. Even if they opt to use Band of Brutality, they'll be at disadvantage still, cause parts of their kits dedicated to crits will become useless.
P.P.S.: Before people start arguing that proc sets are bad for the game and shouldn't be even a thing. Well, those sets are already here and won't go anywhere, so the issue should be addressed one way or another.
#MakeProcSetsCritAgain
butterrum222 wrote: »Make malacaths band instead of increasing damage done by 25%, it enables proc set crits
OFc - I can read - but the thread was sleeping for a long while and brought back to the top NOT because of P2W. (Maybe I missunderstand your "This again"?)
I brought it?
It's in the OP.
It's in the thread's title, for god's sake -_-'
You buy a DLC. The DLC comes with stuff in it, because if not .. why bother having a DLC in the first place?
OFc - I can read - but the thread was sleeping for a long while and brought back to the top NOT because of P2W. (Maybe I missunderstand your "This again"?)
I brought it?
It's in the OP.
It's in the thread's title, for god's sake -_-'
But anyway - you have nothing to say to my real argument? You just react on the little introduction?
Edit: To answer your edit:
So basically you say: If a P2W item comes behind a small grind part - its no longer P2W?
I bought that mystic which I had to grind a bit for - I didnt do anything else with that chapter.
For me even inconvenienced P2W is P2W - but I'm out here - makes anyway no sence....
First, please, stop calling it mystic, it's .. oddly unnerving (ok, ok, that's a joke to lighten the atmosphere )
But seriously ..
You didn't do anything else in that chapter? Your choice, and yours only.
You bought the extention for what you wanted to buy it.
I did, too ! It just turns out I had a little more reason that you to do so.
No matter.
The grind part is not relevant, again.
The game is not P2W because you think that a dlc is only good for an item. That's, like .. an opinion.
A game is not P2W because a full dlc brings, among other things, something that might be a bit stronger.
I mean, DLC are meant to bring progression.
Now, if you want, I'll admit that the 5-inv items pet are walking on the thin line between P2W and not P2W.
I hope it won't go further than a few inventory spaces here and there.
So are WoW expansions p2w? It locks new zone/raids gear out of players who dont buy the newest exp after all :shrug
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Wait, isn't health regeneration also impacted by Battle Spirit? I thought that it was only long ago when it escaped it.
You buy a DLC. The DLC comes with stuff in it, because if not .. why bother having a DLC in the first place?
Maybe ... for the quests, story, exploration, cosmetics, ...an overall new experience? There are plenty of ways to implement new and worthwhile content without making it P2W. Even new items aren't P2W if they don't offer an upgrade for builds or are also accessible to players who haven't spend money (via trading for example) or only useful within the new content itself.
The decision to lock powerful items behind payed content does not improve the content itself. It does not make players pay for the content itself. It makes players pay for the items. And that's the intention behind this deliberate decision.