Are they ever gonna finish the class identity and skill audit?

OWLTHEMAD

Because regardless of what they say, its pretty clearly not finished.

I havent met anyone who is happy with the state of their class right now.

Templars are complaining about skills not being worth using (yeah because half of them are overloaded and the other arent be glad thats your biggest problem)

Dragonknights have some serious identity and thematic issues. Poofist is still lame.

Necros have broken skills and mechanics still.

Sorcs still need love on the stam department (seriously just give them an air atro ult, people have been wanting it for ages)

Wardens. . . Well im not sure what wardens problem is but they are still complaining i imagine they have a reason too.

And nightblades, well almost your entire community is in agreement about nightblades being in a bad spot. At the moment they are only competitive as gankers and tanking in specific content.

Honestly. This is not a good state to be in and now we are throwing vampire in the mix?

SmukkeHeks

I’m thinking it’s as good as it gets. They had a theory, made the execute and it did not work.

But instead of admitting that, they’ll hold on to the decision in fear of losing face.

They have lost touch with own game, those class representatives were a marketing stunt (look how inclusive we are) and we have to come to terms with the fact, that we aren’t playing a game designed for the masses to enjoy, but more a project for some few individuals that have some ideas/desires/wants and the power to make it happen.

I still haven’t seen a single one of those characters with the Z in game. Apparently they should be creators playing. They haven’t set foot on the eu-server during prime time. So how will they ever be capable of picking up, changing and re-designing things that do not work?

That can’t. They don’t. And we have to accept it at some point.

Alucardo

As a stam sorc main I'm obviously not happy, and haven't been in a looooong time. It used to be alright, but seeing all these other classes get buffed and new classes with buffs and abilities I wish stam sorc had, it makes one get a little salty.
I do have a max level necro, but I can't bring myself to play it because they are just broken as hell (in a strong way), unless you're magicka.
Testing stam sorc on Greymoor in duels was even worse. Healing is at an all time low, and they don't really have anything to deal with the bombardment of damage. Seriously, just look at stamcro with the mitigation, tether which is essentially a second Vigor, Blastbones which deals as much damage as an ult along with defile. Why the hell would you play any other stam class, especially stam sorc??
These weaker classes need to be brought up to the current standards, and it can't be ignored.

Skjaldbjorn

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Wardens. . . Well im not sure what wardens problem is but they are still complaining i imagine they have a reason too.

It could be that Warden DPS (stamina in particular) is absolutely god awful in PVE. That's my complaint. Our "class identity" is garbage and that bleed change was an abomination that should have never left the drafting table. It was a bad idea when whoever dreamed it up *** it out and it's aged like milk. Worst single ability change I have seen in ESO.

OtarTheMad

To my knowledge the classes left on the class identity is Nb and Templar. I know they did changes in the two updates prior to that too but classes were focused back when Dragonhold dropped I do believe.

I thought that they did say somewhere that skill audit and class identity changes (at least massive changes) were put on the back burner for performance but I can't seem to remember where.

GeorgeBlack

What? No. Did you really think they would?
These tasks open but never close. You know they'll never close because of how shallow the work is at the begining.
Did you notice any class flavour? No
Did you improve or nerf abilities with the audit? No blanket changes.

Remember when they found DoTs underperforming and made them OP and then 3 months after they found them extremelly effective and made them weaker than EVER BEFORE. Twice blanket changes just for Dots. And here we are 6 months later.

Charon_on_Vacation

i'm sure they have a very elaborate plan for the future, looking like that:
try to fix performance and fail, implement new chapters with mechanics that are worse than app games, try to fix performance and fail, try to fix race balance and fail, try to fix performance and fail, implement new low effort dlc, try to fix performance and fail, rework CP system and fail, try to fix performance and fail, try to balance classes and their identity and fail <- you are here
somewhere in between they might even try to fix the dungeon finder (again) and.. fail!
just a few more years and everything will be fine <- please repeat this sentence and continue to buy crown crates

Glantir

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Sorcs still need love on the stam department (seriously just give them an air atro ult, people have been wanting it for ages)

Imo not only stam Sorcs, from a PvE perspective. Sustain sucks on mag Sorcs, rebate passive is useless in PvE because the pets cant die in dungeons/trials. Other passives are pretty weak i.E. Capacitor 10% magicka reg is not much... every other class have better passives or/and skills to get ressources back. Dark Conversion/Deal is just awful with its casttime.
Give Sorcs a class spamable for mag and stam builds. Maybe turn Daedric Mines into a spam skill?

Turelus

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

I havent met anyone who is happy with the state of their class right now.

We're never going to see a day when there are people all happy with their class and not complaining about something.

Firstmep

In their minds the audit is complete.
Never mind they gutted dots to the point, that even highly specialized dot builds can put out decent pressure.
Never mind that most Stam players run dizzy because it outperforms most(not all) class spammables by a huge margin.
And the list goes on, stamsorc got a *** version of nb spectral bow no one asked for.
Hots are still stupid strong.
It's not even class to class balance that bothers me, it's all the general stuff they've changed.

[Edit to remove bashing]

Marcus_Thracius

Iam happy with the class balance now
The magic happens when you stop caring.

Pvping mainly.
I dont care anymore
You want to cheese your way there are toxic builds/classes there - have fun
will be even more balanced with the vamp dlc.
Everyone gets a trophy now

I stick to RP and occasional pvp
Iam alllll goood now

OWLTHEMAD

OtarTheMad wrote: »

To my knowledge the classes left on the class identity is Nb and Templar. I know they did changes in the two updates prior to that too but classes were focused back when Dragonhold dropped I do believe.

I thought that they did say somewhere that skill audit and class identity changes (at least massive changes) were put on the back burner for performance but I can't seem to remember where.

So, we got put on back burner for performance? Sounds about right. Smh. They should have finished what they started. Now all theyve done is alienate a large chunk of the player base.

Firstmep

Marcus_Thracius wrote: »

Iam happy with the class balance now
The magic happens when you stop caring.

Pvping mainly.
I dont care anymore
You want to cheese your way there are toxic builds/classes there - have fun
will be even more balanced with the vamp dlc.
Everyone gets a trophy now

I stick to RP and occasional pvp
Iam alllll goood now

I dont care that much about class to class balance, no point in getting worked up over something that can shift every update.

That doesnt mean i dont have my opinions(that are just that).

My main concern is that are so many unused skills and morphs still, and this is something that should have been addressed forever ago.
I want to be able to choose my skills, without gimping myself severely. Im not saying i want to be a wood elf wearing heavy armour in trials to heal.
I mean in the specific skill lines, morphs should matter, choosing a specific skill should matter.
Currently in pvp you can copy paste the same 2-3 builds onto literally every stamina class, and be assured its not only BIS, but miles ahead of anything else you can come up with.
Then theres their new direction of tyring to make skills numerically equal, and losing a lot of the class flair and identitiy in the process. Just look at Bound Armaments, beig a carbon copy of Nightblades spectral bow. God forbid they tried to be creative, or picked up one of the literally thousands of ideas floating around in the community.
Or look at stonefist, LOL. Dont even need to dive into that clustercluck any further.

kojou

Templars are complaining about skills not being worth using (yeah because half of them are overloaded and the other arent be glad thats your biggest problem)

• I think Templars are in a pretty good state. Not the highest DPS, but great survivability.

Dragonknights have some serious identity and thematic issues. Poofist is still lame.

• I actually like "Poo Fist"... Maybe get rid of the cast time, but it is a decent spammable otherwise.
• It will be interesting to see where Magicka DK lands with the VAS Destro nerf/bug fixes.

Necros have broken skills and mechanics still.

• Targeting dead bodies is still atrocious, but the skills themselves are fine.

Sorcs still need love on the stam department (seriously just give them an air atro ult, people have been wanting it for ages)

• Lightning Splash and its morphs could use also use some love.

Wardens. . . Well im not sure what wardens problem is but they are still complaining i imagine they have a reason too.

• IMO the Vvardenfell themed animations aren't aging well.
• The Winter's Embrace skill line could use a couple updates to make it more functional for Stamina builds. There are very few passives that make me feel good about spending skill points.

And nightblades, well almost your entire community is in agreement about nightblades being in a bad spot. At the moment they are only competitive as gankers and tanking in specific content.

• I'm ok with Nightblades being superb gankers. That is part of their Identity
• I wish Sap tank was still a thing.
• Nightblade needs minor Berserk back.
• Funnel Health needs to be made viable.

Honestly. This is not a good state to be in and now we are throwing vampire in the mix?

Vampire seems very niche from my testing. There are some fun aspects to it, but I haven't found it to be very practical. A little too much "Curse" for the amount of "Kiss" IMO. A lot of people will use it to run around invisible, and get OMG! Amazing! parses on target dummies, but I haven't found it to be very good for anything else. Maybe I will figure out something eventually...

Keep in mind, balance will never be perfect and make everybody happy, and they can't wait for it to be "perfect" before releasing new content (otherwise they would never release anything), so I wouldn't expect them to.

I am actually glad they left class balance relatively untouched this patch. If they don't touch it then they won't make it worse.

eKsDee

They've utterly destroyed class identity across the board over the last few years, and are now trying to drag the half rotten carcasses from patch to patch, stapling bits of stuff back on as they fall off, maybe stopping and trying to straighten everything up to look good.

IMO, class identity won't ever be restored by hacky patch jobs, the classes need to be gutted and rebuilt from the ground up off of an actual template, with way more finesse than they've shown in the past, and, more importantly, more care for the classes across the board.

VaranisArano

Yes. But then they'll roll out the next excuse for horizontal progression.

SodanTok

They finished with dragonhold, one of worst balanced patches we have had in years of ESO. I dont see how current state of Warden, Jabs or Necro can be in any way considered finished. You get class that is all based on spamming one skill, then skill rich class suffering from constant issues with them while also being mandatory class for any group and then you have class that nobody plays anymore that does least damage yet also offers nothing (from DD side) to help a group. And somehow these 3 classes can coexist in finished class audit world.

iaminc

Class Identity...... best joke I’ve heard since the “ performance upgrade”

Barbaran

...they gave Stam sorcs floating daggers and dks rocks to throw. Done deal, wipe their hands clean of all this 'class identity' nonsense.
While on the subject of 'what ever happend to', what ever happend with the class rep program, did they get any input on the class identity?
Or did they just get phased out?

bol

Not to mention the Tormentor activation skill is use-to-lose.
Basically it adds so little damage that it does not cover the loss of one GCD to activate, so you are literally better off not using it.

And yes, liquid lightning is underperforming to the point that it does not find a spot on the magsorc cramped bars.

eKsDee

Barbaran wrote: »

...they gave Stam sorcs floating daggers and dks rocks to throw. Done deal, wipe their hands clean of all this 'class identity' nonsense.
While on the subject of 'what ever happend to', what ever happend with the class rep program, did they get any input on the class identity?
Or did they just get phased out?

From what I've seen, it's still a thing, but they have just as much input as they did before -- slim to none, if the devs don't like their feedback.

Some changes don't even get run by the reps, actually. Quite a few times the reps have been just as confused as us.

TheInfernalRage

They should do this side-by-side whatever they're planning with the CP system.

Noisivid

Turelus wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

I havent met anyone who is happy with the state of their class right now.

We're never going to see a day when there are people all happy with their class and not complaining about something.

and the "happy with their class" people generally aren't on the forums that much, they're in game being all happy and stuff

Kidgangster101

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

To my knowledge the classes left on the class identity is Nb and Templar. I know they did changes in the two updates prior to that too but classes were focused back when Dragonhold dropped I do believe.

I thought that they did say somewhere that skill audit and class identity changes (at least massive changes) were put on the back burner for performance but I can't seem to remember where.

So, we got put on back burner for performance? Sounds about right. Smh. They should have finished what they started. Now all theyve done is alienate a large chunk of the player base.

I would argue performance (if they ever fix it but I won't hold my breath) is the most important thing. You simply can't play the game if it doesn't work lol

daim

Job half done is a job done

pieratsos

Turelus wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

I havent met anyone who is happy with the state of their class right now.

We're never going to see a day when there are people all happy with their class and not complaining about something.

Nice strawman right there. Nicely done

OWLTHEMAD

pieratsos wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

I havent met anyone who is happy with the state of their class right now.

We're never going to see a day when there are people all happy with their class and not complaining about something.

Nice strawman right there. Nicely done

I *** think that qu a.c lifies as a straw man. Seem sc like just giving up.

OtarTheMad

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

To my knowledge the classes left on the class identity is Nb and Templar. I know they did changes in the two updates prior to that too but classes were focused back when Dragonhold dropped I do believe.

I thought that they did say somewhere that skill audit and class identity changes (at least massive changes) were put on the back burner for performance but I can't seem to remember where.

So, we got put on back burner for performance? Sounds about right. Smh. They should have finished what they started. Now all theyve done is alienate a large chunk of the player base.

I feel bad for ZOS I really do, at least this time. They are told by a large chunk of people to hold changes and do fixes to performance... they do this and NOW people are complaining about no massive changes? MAKE UP YOUR MIND LOL.

ZOS is doing a lot here and from home. I think that the megaservers have more pressing issues then class issues, and this is coming from someone who plays Magcro which is pretty much on the bottom rung when it comes to classes.

Classes are fine btw, overall they work. Do they have some issues? Of course. However the megaserver has some real issues that need to be addressed sooner rather than later and imo take priority.

Skjaldbjorn

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Classes are fine btw, overall they work. Do they have some issues? Of course. However the megaserver has some real issues that need to be addressed sooner rather than later and imo take priority.

I think the greater issue is rather than simply reverting some of the hamfisted, awful changes that haven't worked, they're sticking to their guns and pretending these changes were good for the long-term health of the classes involved.

OtarTheMad

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Classes are fine btw, overall they work. Do they have some issues? Of course. However the megaserver has some real issues that need to be addressed sooner rather than later and imo take priority.

I think the greater issue is rather than simply reverting some of the hamfisted, awful changes that haven't worked, they're sticking to their guns and pretending these changes were good for the long-term health of the classes involved.

OWLTHEMAD

OtarTheMad wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

To my knowledge the classes left on the class identity is Nb and Templar. I know they did changes in the two updates prior to that too but classes were focused back when Dragonhold dropped I do believe.

I thought that they did say somewhere that skill audit and class identity changes (at least massive changes) were put on the back burner for performance but I can't seem to remember where.

So, we got put on back burner for performance? Sounds about right. Smh. They should have finished what they started. Now all theyve done is alienate a large chunk of the player base.

I feel bad for ZOS I really do, at least this time. They are told by a large chunk of people to hold changes and do fixes to performance... they do this and NOW people are complaining about no massive changes? MAKE UP YOUR MIND LOL.

ZOS is doing a lot here and from home. I think that the megaservers have more pressing issues then class issues, and this is coming from someone who plays Magcro which is pretty much on the bottom rung when it comes to classes.

Classes are fine btw, overall they work. Do they have some issues? Of course. However the megaserver has some real issues that need to be addressed sooner rather than later and imo take priority.

The thing is, at least in my case specifically, its not even major changes at this point. Its minor tweaks they made that were devastating to certain classes.

In my case, i am a magblade. If they literally just removed the cast time on soul harvest/incap and/or lowered the minimum traveltime on bowproc (so that someone at point blank range didnt have a whole second and a half to react to something that should have already hit them) it would go a long way towards placating the mains of an entire class.

But for my class specifically, its just not worth playing the mechanics right now.

I havent killed anyone with bow proc in ages. In fact its not worth firing. Just keep spamming swallow soul until they run out of resources. Soul harvest? Never lands. To easy too get away from and too telegraphed.

These are your core combo and killing tools and they dont function adequately.

The class isnt satisfying to play. Combos arent worth using because the combo mechanics don't pay off.

This just one class and alk it needs are minor tweaks.

As far as the other classes, fine no major changes to balance or design. I get it. But like nightblade surely there are minor tweaks that can be made without sucking up huge amounts of manpower to make people more satisfied with game play?

I know nightblade can be made massively more viable by just two minor tweaks(or reversions really) with out making any major changes.

Theres no excuse.