Yandir’s Might set is crazy OP

GRXRG

Firstmep wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

I don't know, of course this set provide a different playstyle than usual, but people can already use new moon-fury with 3 infused wd glyphs and warrior mundus with lava food and never struggle sustain wise.

A 500 stam regen is useless when you can already reach around 2k stam regen already in those setups.

If you are outnumbered fury procs at full stacks way easier both when you kite and when you facetank, helping you more with damage and heals than this set.

And just for 10 seconds???
Clever alchemist feels a straight better version of this set for me, easier to proc with double duration.

And I repeat, we didn't see any sustain nerfs, just defense nerfs, so extra 500 stam regen is useless.

Fury takes 10 seconds to stack up at minimum, when you reach max stacks you have 10 seconds then they fall off and you start again.
This set you can reach max stacks in 5 seconds.
Also lava foot soup might be okay on warden/necro, but the rest of the Stam classes would have too little hp with it, which is going to be problematic next patch.
This set provides a pretty good balance between sustain and damage, also doest require you to run sword and board or brp dw(which is getting changed anyway).

Do you know that people using lava food put attributes into Health too lol? Since it provides more stamina than all other standard stamina foods , dubious or artaeum.

You can max stacks in 5 seconds with 100% crit chance only since procs only with critical hits, so usually you get the stacks in a bit longer, and if you have zero stacks and need to kite you have zero stam regen and zero weapon damage, so pretty much a dead set bonus.

And as i said people say clever alchemist with 20 seconds uptime on over 600 wd is not that good uptime, just 10 seconds are way worse.

And fury as soon you are max stacks and "lose" them, they already begin building up again even if kiting.

The only way i see this set powerful is 1vs1 or duels, where you can build the stacks easily and proc when you feel it.

Lughlongarm

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

I always love these THIS IS CRAZY OP or CRAZY NERF Threads and DO THE DEVS NEVER TEST ANYTHING - before the posters have actually tested anything themselves ^^

Thread name, may be a bit over the top.

I did was under the impression that it could be used as back bar for fee sustain and I was wrong about that. I did test the set before posting but I got confused because the buff do persists. Now that I know that this set is more usable as a body set or as front bar set, I just think about it as a top tier set for PvP, one of the best for sure. which has never been the case with raid's sets. So this is a precedent and I'm not sure it is a good one. All raid sets are usually designed to be extremely effective in the PVE environment and not outside of it.

Lughlongarm

Vetixio wrote: »

Of course stamina gets another overpowered set its not like they need anymore op sets and make the gap between stamina and magicka even bigger.

To be fair, magicka got some crazy offensive capabilities as well.

Lughlongarm

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Can we like NOT back up the Nerf Bus over yet another set before it's actually released?

How many times have we done this already? Remember Dro'Zakar's Claws? It lived for two weeks of the PTS before a thread very similar to this one caused it to be nerfed into oblivion.

I would very much like to avoid re-living this nightmare with every single patch.

Remember: instead of calling for nerfs to useful sets INSTEAD call for buffs for the useless ones. Everyone is happier that way and we end up with many more fun sets to use!

I can give opposite examples as well. Remember the bash Goliath from one year ago? DId we really had to have one patch of broken PVP before fixing it?

There are things which are hard to predict sure, I for example think that Stuhn’s Favor is over hyped and will mostly be used in ganking set ups and will be quite niche over all. But in some cases you can just see the power creep, just few months ago we saw how NMA out performing all damage sets in pvp, I compare this current set with sets like NMA, and in many ways it is stronger.

Vetixio

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

Of course stamina gets another overpowered set its not like they need anymore op sets and make the gap between stamina and magicka even bigger.

To be fair, magicka got some crazy offensive capabilities as well.

Yeah sure but at the risk of taking 40% more damage. And the gloves are only really usable in PvE not in PvP.

Lughlongarm

Vetixio wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

Of course stamina gets another overpowered set its not like they need anymore op sets and make the gap between stamina and magicka even bigger.

To be fair, magicka got some crazy offensive capabilities as well.

Yeah sure but at the risk of taking 40% more damage. And the gloves are only really usable in PvE not in PvP.

Not only the gloves.
desto master staff looks strong
Some vamp options that leans more toward magicka

daemonor

GRXRG wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

I don't know, of course this set provide a different playstyle than usual, but people can already use new moon-fury with 3 infused wd glyphs and warrior mundus with lava food and never struggle sustain wise.

A 500 stam regen is useless when you can already reach around 2k stam regen already in those setups.

If you are outnumbered fury procs at full stacks way easier both when you kite and when you facetank, helping you more with damage and heals than this set.

And just for 10 seconds???
Clever alchemist feels a straight better version of this set for me, easier to proc with double duration.

And I repeat, we didn't see any sustain nerfs, just defense nerfs, so extra 500 stam regen is useless.

Fury takes 10 seconds to stack up at minimum, when you reach max stacks you have 10 seconds then they fall off and you start again.
This set you can reach max stacks in 5 seconds.
Also lava foot soup might be okay on warden/necro, but the rest of the Stam classes would have too little hp with it, which is going to be problematic next patch.
This set provides a pretty good balance between sustain and damage, also doest require you to run sword and board or brp dw(which is getting changed anyway).

Do you know that people using lava food put attributes into Health too lol? Since it provides more stamina than all other standard stamina foods , dubious or artaeum.

You can max stacks in 5 seconds with 100% crit chance only since procs only with critical hits, so usually you get the stacks in a bit longer, and if you have zero stacks and need to kite you have zero stam regen and zero weapon damage, so pretty much a dead set bonus.

And as i said people say clever alchemist with 20 seconds uptime on over 600 wd is not that good uptime, just 10 seconds are way worse.

And fury as soon you are max stacks and "lose" them, they already begin building up again even if kiting.

The only way i see this set powerful is 1vs1 or duels, where you can build the stacks easily and proc when you feel it.

It's not gonna be over the top on stamcros stamplars or stamdens, but I see it very viable on stam dks because you can dot stuff up and and mess around waiting for the 5 proc to crit without actually being in combat. The playstyle is identical to fury and alchemist tho, which is sad in a way since it doesn't bring anything new to the game.

Vetixio

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

Of course stamina gets another overpowered set its not like they need anymore op sets and make the gap between stamina and magicka even bigger.

To be fair, magicka got some crazy offensive capabilities as well.

Yeah sure but at the risk of taking 40% more damage. And the gloves are only really usable in PvE not in PvP.

Not only the gloves.
desto master staff looks strong
Some vamp options that leans more toward magicka

Yeah the Master's Destro staff is good, but have you seen the Master's 2H Cleave is so busted on that lol. Besides magicka needs all the help it can get when it comes to dps and sustain compared to stam in PvE and PvP.

Giljabrar

Vetixio wrote: »

[

Yeah the Master's Destro staff is good, but have you seen the Master's 2H Cleave is so busted on that lol. Besides magicka needs all the help it can get when it comes to dps and sustain compared to stam in PvE and PvP.

The Master 2h isn't really that amazing. It's nearly as strong on the live server right now, but you don't see anybody talking about it.

The only time this will be actually OP is against 24 people standing on transit at a keep while it's unflagging. Other than that, it's actual applications are extremely limited. Master cleave builds on live right now have a very hard time even reaching their current cap of 6, let alone 24.

While they are huge numbers on paper, it's quite limited in reality.

katorga

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

Of course stamina gets another overpowered set its not like they need anymore op sets and make the gap between stamina and magicka even bigger.

To be fair, magicka got some crazy offensive capabilities as well.

So next patch I can easily get a 8+K spell damage 30K mag setup, but I have to take 40% more damage and/or drain 2K health/s (and all the other vampire negatives effects) to get there. I can do a 7K weapon damage 30K stam setup right now on live, with zero negative side effects, and I be doing more than that next patch with no negatives.

Vetixio

Giljabrar wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

[

Yeah the Master's Destro staff is good, but have you seen the Master's 2H Cleave is so busted on that lol. Besides magicka needs all the help it can get when it comes to dps and sustain compared to stam in PvE and PvP.

The Master 2h isn't really that amazing. It's nearly as strong on the live server right now, but you don't see anybody talking about it.

The only time this will be actually OP is against 24 people standing on transit at a keep while it's unflagging. Other than that, it's actual applications are extremely limited. Master cleave builds on live right now have a very hard time even reaching their current cap of 6, let alone 24.

While they are huge numbers on paper, it's quite limited in reality.

That's true but it could be strong in dungeons or raids with a lot of trash? Tbh the whole perfected vMA and vDSA is another can of worms and mistake ZOS has made but don't get me started

Vetixio

katorga wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

Of course stamina gets another overpowered set its not like they need anymore op sets and make the gap between stamina and magicka even bigger.

To be fair, magicka got some crazy offensive capabilities as well.

So next patch I can easily get a 8+K spell damage 30K mag setup, but I have to take 40% more damage and/or drain 2K health/s (and all the other vampire negatives effects) to get there. I can do a 7K weapon damage 30K stam setup right now on live, with zero negative side effects, and I be doing more than that next patch with no negatives.

Yep. But magicka is getting buffs right? I swear some people just wanted magicka to be deleted from the game lol.

FlowOne

Rip. 1 more set was ZOSed

Lughlongarm

FlowOne wrote: »

Rip. 1 more set was ZOSed

Well, if you noticed, all the trial sets got nerfed not only this one, due to a mistake in their calculation method for balancing out the trial sets. From what I understand, even with the overloaded stats, this set was not a good set for end game PVE and that was supposed to be its purpose, , so the problem is in the initial design not the numbers. It seems clear that all new trail sets are not great ATM, due to fact that they all were designed with LA/HA changes in mind which didn't happen at the end.

YandereGirlfriend

Lughlongarm wrote: »

FlowOne wrote: »

Rip. 1 more set was ZOSed

Well, if you noticed, all the trial sets got nerfed not only this one, due to a mistake in their calculation method for balancing out the trial sets.

In precisely no universe am I taking their word for it that this was their actual motivation.

Moreover, even if they were telling the truth, anyone with eyes can see that the new iterations of these sets are deconstruction fodder and not worth the effort to farm.

That alone speaks volumes about the quality of their vaunted "power budget" spreadsheet rather than saying anything about the relative power of the sets in question.

The spreadsheet keeps spitting out sets that are not fun and not enticing to obtain. At a certain point, they combat team really needs to look in the mirror and realize that the problem isn't with the sets, it is instead with their algorithm for "balancing" them.

SodanTok

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

FlowOne wrote: »

Rip. 1 more set was ZOSed

Well, if you noticed, all the trial sets got nerfed not only this one, due to a mistake in their calculation method for balancing out the trial sets.

In precisely no universe am I taking their word for it that this was their actual motivation.

Moreover, even if they were telling the truth, anyone with eyes can see that the new iterations of these sets are deconstruction fodder and not worth the effort to farm.

That alone speaks volumes about the quality of their vaunted "power budget" spreadsheet rather than saying anything about the relative power of the sets in question.

The spreadsheet keeps spitting out sets that are not fun and not enticing to obtain. At a certain point, they combat team really needs to look in the mirror and realize that the problem isn't with the sets, it is instead with their algorithm for "balancing" them.

putting things in bold doesnt make them true. Making sets way stronger than others is horrible way to make them more enticing

Nemesis7884

With patch 6.01 the set seems rather UP now tbh.... doesnt seem very interesting anymore compared to other sets...seemed fine as it was before

YandereGirlfriend

SodanTok wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

FlowOne wrote: »

Rip. 1 more set was ZOSed

Well, if you noticed, all the trial sets got nerfed not only this one, due to a mistake in their calculation method for balancing out the trial sets.

In precisely no universe am I taking their word for it that this was their actual motivation.

Moreover, even if they were telling the truth, anyone with eyes can see that the new iterations of these sets are deconstruction fodder and not worth the effort to farm.

That alone speaks volumes about the quality of their vaunted "power budget" spreadsheet rather than saying anything about the relative power of the sets in question.

The spreadsheet keeps spitting out sets that are not fun and not enticing to obtain. At a certain point, they combat team really needs to look in the mirror and realize that the problem isn't with the sets, it is instead with their algorithm for "balancing" them.

putting things in bold doesnt make them true. Making sets way stronger than others is horrible way to make them more enticing

That might be true, but if someone from ZOS is scanning the thread and it happens to catch their eye in a way that it might not have otherwise, then I will happily consider that a win.

Beyond that, I'm very much unsure that you're on the right side of arguing that the trial sets were overpowered. Much better theorycrafters than myself have already demonstrated strong empirical evidence in the Roaring Opportunist discussion showing the set to be weaker than several other common healing sets as well as being practically unusable (that is, unusable without a cheesy rotation or build) by either healers or DPS.

As for Yandir's Might... suffice it to say that I am never going to be taking off my Relequen or Loki/Yokeda on its account. We never even got proper parses posted to see how the old version stacked up against the current meta sets, the entire process was simply short-circuited via the nerf.

What's left now? A sustain set with no Critical Chance and a proc condition that doesn't fit into a normal Stamina rotation. Honestly, I'd happily settle for a compromise that simply stripped the Minor Slayer from the set (it's usually redundant anyway) and gave us back the prior values: it should be a fair trade according to the spreadsheet!

And let's not even mention Vrol and it's new 36 second cooldown for a buff that doesn't even cover your whole trial group. Would you honestly say that it was overpowered and needed that nerf?

Juhasow

Vetixio wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

[

Yeah the Master's Destro staff is good, but have you seen the Master's 2H Cleave is so busted on that lol. Besides magicka needs all the help it can get when it comes to dps and sustain compared to stam in PvE and PvP.

The Master 2h isn't really that amazing. It's nearly as strong on the live server right now, but you don't see anybody talking about it.

The only time this will be actually OP is against 24 people standing on transit at a keep while it's unflagging. Other than that, it's actual applications are extremely limited. Master cleave builds on live right now have a very hard time even reaching their current cap of 6, let alone 24.

While they are huge numbers on paper, it's quite limited in reality.

That's true but it could be strong in dungeons or raids with a lot of trash? Tbh the whole perfected vMA and vDSA is another can of worms and mistake ZOS has made but don't get me started

How many times in dungeons and trials You meet perfectly stacked 6+ mobs ? How long those mobs leave before it's less then 6 of them left ? And I don't mean mobs close to one another I mean perfectly stacked mobs because that is requirement for master 2 hand to work.

Juhasow

In general it's pretty good set for PvP. It already started to recive nerfs though. Time will tell what will happen at the end of PTS cycle. It's possible ZoS will redesign new trial sets since they rely on fully charged heavy attacks and many people simply don't like it so we may see the same things that happened with Siroria and Relequen during Summerset PTS where both sets got completly redesigned during PTS cycle.

Davadin

stamDK this plus Thun's Favor? body this, Tuhrn on jewel and back bar, front bar Master 2H.

FrankonPC

BalticBlues wrote: »

It's funny how ZOS BUTCHERS decent defensive sets for all people on one side
and brings in LARGELY OP sets for STAMINA and YOUTUBERS on the other side...

Please name one defensive set that's been nerfed. Just one.

Faulgor

FrankonPC wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

It's funny how ZOS BUTCHERS decent defensive sets for all people on one side
and brings in LARGELY OP sets for STAMINA and YOUTUBERS on the other side...

Please name one defensive set that's been nerfed. Just one.

... Bloodspawn?

FlowOne

Lughlongarm wrote: »

FlowOne wrote: »

Rip. 1 more set was ZOSed

Well, if you noticed, all the trial sets got nerfed not only this one, due to a mistake in their calculation method for balancing out the trial sets. From what I understand, even with the overloaded stats, this set was not a good set for end game PVE and that was supposed to be its purpose, , so the problem is in the initial design not the numbers. It seems clear that all new trail sets are not great ATM, due to fact that they all were designed with LA/HA changes in mind which didn't happen at the end.

this set was good at leats for PVP, and now its useless in PVE and in PVP. Less dmg then Fury, and u need good crit rate or be in vX scenarios to proc this set. IMO it was interesting set but big dmg nerf is unreasonable

Lughlongarm

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

FlowOne wrote: »

Rip. 1 more set was ZOSed

Well, if you noticed, all the trial sets got nerfed not only this one, due to a mistake in their calculation method for balancing out the trial sets.

In precisely no universe am I taking their word for it that this was their actual motivation.

Moreover, even if they were telling the truth, anyone with eyes can see that the new iterations of these sets are deconstruction fodder and not worth the effort to farm.

That alone speaks volumes about the quality of their vaunted "power budget" spreadsheet rather than saying anything about the relative power of the sets in question.

The spreadsheet keeps spitting out sets that are not fun and not enticing to obtain. At a certain point, they combat team really needs to look in the mirror and realize that the problem isn't with the sets, it is instead with their algorithm for "balancing" them.

I think that the current set of trial sets will make much more sense once the LA/HA changes will be implemented(and it will be...)

Lughlongarm

FlowOne wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

FlowOne wrote: »

Rip. 1 more set was ZOSed

Well, if you noticed, all the trial sets got nerfed not only this one, due to a mistake in their calculation method for balancing out the trial sets. From what I understand, even with the overloaded stats, this set was not a good set for end game PVE and that was supposed to be its purpose, , so the problem is in the initial design not the numbers. It seems clear that all new trail sets are not great ATM, due to fact that they all were designed with LA/HA changes in mind which didn't happen at the end.

this set was good at leats for PVP, and now its useless in PVE and in PVP. Less dmg then Fury, and u need good crit rate or be in vX scenarios to proc this set. IMO it was interesting set but big dmg nerf is unreasonable

The perfected version is still very competitive in terms of over all stats, basically fury for medium armor builds that offers more flexibility. However, does it worth the veteran trial farm now? Probably not if you don't like end game PVE.
The real issue with this set is that it was never good for PVE, and like I already mentioned, there is a change that future changes to LA/HA will make this set competitive for PVE as well.

FlowOne

Lughlongarm wrote: »

FlowOne wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

FlowOne wrote: »

Rip. 1 more set was ZOSed

Well, if you noticed, all the trial sets got nerfed not only this one, due to a mistake in their calculation method for balancing out the trial sets. From what I understand, even with the overloaded stats, this set was not a good set for end game PVE and that was supposed to be its purpose, , so the problem is in the initial design not the numbers. It seems clear that all new trail sets are not great ATM, due to fact that they all were designed with LA/HA changes in mind which didn't happen at the end.

this set was good at leats for PVP, and now its useless in PVE and in PVP. Less dmg then Fury, and u need good crit rate or be in vX scenarios to proc this set. IMO it was interesting set but big dmg nerf is unreasonable

The perfected version is still very competitive in terms of over all stats, basically fury for medium armor builds that offers more flexibility. However, does it worth the veteran trial farm now? Probably not if you don't like end game PVE.
The real issue with this set is that it was never good for PVE, and like I already mentioned, there is a change that future changes to LA/HA will make this set competitive for PVE as well.

So before nerf it wothed it, now no. The whole chapter is a joke.

Lughlongarm

FlowOne wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

FlowOne wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

FlowOne wrote: »

Rip. 1 more set was ZOSed

Well, if you noticed, all the trial sets got nerfed not only this one, due to a mistake in their calculation method for balancing out the trial sets. From what I understand, even with the overloaded stats, this set was not a good set for end game PVE and that was supposed to be its purpose, , so the problem is in the initial design not the numbers. It seems clear that all new trail sets are not great ATM, due to fact that they all were designed with LA/HA changes in mind which didn't happen at the end.

this set was good at leats for PVP, and now its useless in PVE and in PVP. Less dmg then Fury, and u need good crit rate or be in vX scenarios to proc this set. IMO it was interesting set but big dmg nerf is unreasonable

The perfected version is still very competitive in terms of over all stats, basically fury for medium armor builds that offers more flexibility. However, does it worth the veteran trial farm now? Probably not if you don't like end game PVE.
The real issue with this set is that it was never good for PVE, and like I already mentioned, there is a change that future changes to LA/HA will make this set competitive for PVE as well.

So before nerf it wothed it, now no. The whole chapter is a joke.

Still worth it if you enjoy the content. Set is still good but the competition among good stamina sets is fierce, so unless a set have potential to extremely over perform, in my opinion, it does not worth the trouble of doing something you don't enjoy.

Vaoh

These trials sets are gross.

They were designed for those off-cycle PTS changes where heavy attacks became far stronger and light attacks became far weaker. How can they remain balanced for changes which didn’t go through...?

Scrap and redesign. Admit these trial sets are poorly designed and make new sets for us. Everyone in-game just laughs at how bad things are getting.