vDSA Destruction Staff

Alucardo

I feel like gaining 600 spell damage across the board for pushing a button is too much. What I'd like to see is

- Increases only destruction staff abilities by X spell damage
- Destructive Touch cost reduced by 30%

The reduced cost was great for magicka builds, especially mag sorcs, who were tired of their old spammable. It gave them options, which is sorely lacking (even more so on stamina, but that's a topic for another day).

ESO_Nightingale

No thanks. It's a short 4s duration.

brandonv516

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

No thanks. It's a short 4s duration.

Not exactly difficult to reapply for 100% uptime - lines right up with the cooldown on CC.

Easy to swap bars and get a quick buffed up heal on Resto bar.

Too good of an option.

idk

^^^

What they said. It is a nice touch for the weapon.

llBlack_Heartll

Alucardo wrote: »

I feel like gaining 600 spell damage across the board for pushing a button is too much. What I'd like to see is

- Increases only destruction staff abilities by X spell damage
- Destructive Touch cost reduced by 30%

The reduced cost was great for magicka builds, especially mag sorcs, who were tired of their old spammable. It gave them options, which is sorely lacking (even more so on stamina, but that's a topic for another day).

The new proposed Weapon is sort of like the skill, it’s in a bit of a funny spot.
(Skill)It doesn’t make a good spammable, it’s weak and to use it as a spammable, you are reapplying the dot (if you are using that morph)
With how the weapon now works, it’s still not going to be a spammable because you want to be using it every 4s and not every cast.
So essentially, you will need to place 2 spammables on your bar, which is kinda silly to take up 2 slots. PVE perspective.

Might be different for the PvP morph? I’m not sure?

Alucardo

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I feel like gaining 600 spell damage across the board for pushing a button is too much. What I'd like to see is

- Increases only destruction staff abilities by X spell damage
- Destructive Touch cost reduced by 30%

The reduced cost was great for magicka builds, especially mag sorcs, who were tired of their old spammable. It gave them options, which is sorely lacking (even more so on stamina, but that's a topic for another day).

The new proposed Weapon is sort of like the skill, it’s in a bit of a funny spot.
(Skill)It doesn’t make a good spammable, it’s weak and to use it as a spammable, you are reapplying the dot (if you are using that morph)
With how the weapon now works, it’s still not going to be a spammable because you want to be using it every 4s and not every cast.
So essentially, you will need to place 2 spammables on your bar, which is kinda silly to take up 2 slots. PVE perspective.

Might be different for the PvP morph? I’m not sure?

Yeah it's quite popular in PvP because of the stun, and it does do considerable damage with the Master staff. You're right though, it is in a weird spot. In a way it's a buff now, but on a damage skill, and it's too expensive without the reduced cost to be considered a spammable. Personally I think it was better with the 30% reduced cost so you could replace force pulse/crushing shock if you wanted to. It does a little less damage, but you get the added bonus of a stun. Also means you're not pigeonholed into running both abilities.

wheem_ESO

I don't so much care what they do with these PvE weapons, so long as they become/remain exactly that - PvE weapons. Being forced to do some really boring gear grind that may very well require a PvE guild - when I don't enjoy or care about PvE in the slightest - in order to be competitive saps my desire to even log in.

Alucardo

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I don't so much care what they do with these PvE weapons, so long as they become/remain exactly that - PvE weapons. Being forced to do some really boring gear grind that may very well require a PvE guild - when I don't enjoy or care about PvE in the slightest - in order to be competitive saps my desire to even log in.

If it stays at 600 spell damage just for pressing one button you can be sure many pvp magicka builds are going to jump on this train.

Runefang

It still seems pretty lackluster in PvE as far as I can tell, I can't get it to work well in a rotation on either Magblade or Magden. Overcasting a weak skill to get 600 spell damage and losing either a monster set or a 5-piece bonus is not worth it.

WrathOfInnos

Alucardo wrote: »

I feel like gaining 600 spell damage across the board for pushing a button is too much. What I'd like to see is

- Increases only destruction staff abilities by X spell damage
- Destructive Touch cost reduced by 30%

The reduced cost was great for magicka builds, especially mag sorcs, who were tired of their old spammable. It gave them options, which is sorely lacking (even more so on stamina, but that's a topic for another day).

It wasn’t just the cost reduction that made it viable as a spammable, it would need to also keep the instant damage that brought Clench in-line with things like Force Pulse.

The new design is interesting, but as people have pointed out it seems too powerful for PVP burst on a CC skill, while being awkward to use in PVE (can’t really use with Shock Reach now that the base damage is so low, and 4s buff doesn’t give good uptime with Flame Reach’s 10s DoT).

BohnT2

The 600 spell damage is pathetic compared to what it currently does.
Both shock and frost clench are now just terrible abilities and fire clench is still trash with its 15m range and knockback which throws people out of the range of skills on the two classes who rely on a non class CC (necro/warden)

brandonv516

BohnT2 wrote: »

The 600 spell damage is pathetic compared to what it currently does.
Both shock and frost clench are now just terrible abilities and fire clench is still trash with its 15m range and knockback which throws people out of the range of skills on the two classes who rely on a non class CC (necro/warden)

You could put free 600 spell damage on Revealing Flare and it would still be worth a slot.

This is a no-brainer in PvP.

Luckylancer

Fair nerf idea if it turns out this is too strong in PvP: This 600 spell power can only apply to damaging spells. It wont apply to heals. This is a destro staff after all right?

This goes right with "nerf the heal in PvP" theme of devs.

BohnT2

brandonv516 wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

The 600 spell damage is pathetic compared to what it currently does.
Both shock and frost clench are now just terrible abilities and fire clench is still trash with its 15m range and knockback which throws people out of the range of skills on the two classes who rely on a non class CC (necro/warden)

You could put free 600 spell damage on Revealing Flare and it would still be worth a slot.

This is a no-brainer in PvP.

It's not because you lose gcds to keep it up along with losing a skill that is much more powerful than any competitors in terms of powerlevel.

Those 600 spell damage can in no way replace the damage and sustain loss from current master destro especially because you don't have a proper spammable on the classes which used it

psychotic13

It's too powerful, you've got people saying use it as a spammble to keep the buff up but you dont need to, the damage alone ain't what makes it strong. It's the damage being connected to a stun, it will always be up when you need it to burst people.

Damage is a bit to high, maybe lower it to a reasonable amount and give the buff a longer duration to compensate.

brandonv516

BohnT2 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

The 600 spell damage is pathetic compared to what it currently does.
Both shock and frost clench are now just terrible abilities and fire clench is still trash with its 15m range and knockback which throws people out of the range of skills on the two classes who rely on a non class CC (necro/warden)

You could put free 600 spell damage on Revealing Flare and it would still be worth a slot.

This is a no-brainer in PvP.

It's not because you lose gcds to keep it up along with losing a skill that is much more powerful than any competitors in terms of powerlevel.

Those 600 spell damage can in no way replace the damage and sustain loss from current master destro especially because you don't have a proper spammable on the classes which used it

It should have never been a spammable (and should never be again). Why would a weapon skill tree need two? That's what Force Pulse is for, use that.

Alucardo

brandonv516 wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

The 600 spell damage is pathetic compared to what it currently does.
Both shock and frost clench are now just terrible abilities and fire clench is still trash with its 15m range and knockback which throws people out of the range of skills on the two classes who rely on a non class CC (necro/warden)

You could put free 600 spell damage on Revealing Flare and it would still be worth a slot.

This is a no-brainer in PvP.

It's not because you lose gcds to keep it up along with losing a skill that is much more powerful than any competitors in terms of powerlevel.

Those 600 spell damage can in no way replace the damage and sustain loss from current master destro especially because you don't have a proper spammable on the classes which used it

It should have never been a spammable (and should never be again). Why would a weapon skill tree need two? That's what Force Pulse is for, use that.

Why? Because I'm sick of it, that's why. Just like I'm sick of Dizzying Swing. We need more options for classes who don't have their own spammable and rely on weapon trees.

SodanTok

I wonder if people realize that yeah 600 spell damage is a lot but even if you shot 3 meteors after it the damage gained from the 600 would be just twice of what master destro used to give...

brandonv516

Alucardo wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

The 600 spell damage is pathetic compared to what it currently does.
Both shock and frost clench are now just terrible abilities and fire clench is still trash with its 15m range and knockback which throws people out of the range of skills on the two classes who rely on a non class CC (necro/warden)

You could put free 600 spell damage on Revealing Flare and it would still be worth a slot.

This is a no-brainer in PvP.

It's not because you lose gcds to keep it up along with losing a skill that is much more powerful than any competitors in terms of powerlevel.

Those 600 spell damage can in no way replace the damage and sustain loss from current master destro especially because you don't have a proper spammable on the classes which used it

It should have never been a spammable (and should never be again). Why would a weapon skill tree need two? That's what Force Pulse is for, use that.

Why? Because I'm sick of it, that's why. Just like I'm sick of Dizzying Swing. We need more options for classes who don't have their own spammable and rely on weapon trees.

It's redundant as a spammable in the same tree as another, and was overpowered being attached to a stun.

I agreed with you that the 600 spell power is too much of a buff so let's leave the topic at what it was supposed to be about.

iCaliban

Alucardo wrote: »

I feel like gaining 600 spell damage across the board for pushing a button is too much. What I'd like to see is

- Increases only destruction staff abilities by X spell damage
- Destructive Touch cost reduced by 30%

The reduced cost was great for magicka builds, especially mag sorcs, who were tired of their old spammable. It gave them options, which is sorely lacking (even more so on stamina, but that's a topic for another day).

You really shouldnt make any comments about pvp considering your primary mode of "pvp" was premading under 50 bgs for almost a year.

BohnT2

brandonv516 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

The 600 spell damage is pathetic compared to what it currently does.
Both shock and frost clench are now just terrible abilities and fire clench is still trash with its 15m range and knockback which throws people out of the range of skills on the two classes who rely on a non class CC (necro/warden)

You could put free 600 spell damage on Revealing Flare and it would still be worth a slot.

This is a no-brainer in PvP.

It's not because you lose gcds to keep it up along with losing a skill that is much more powerful than any competitors in terms of powerlevel.

Those 600 spell damage can in no way replace the damage and sustain loss from current master destro especially because you don't have a proper spammable on the classes which used it

It should have never been a spammable (and should never be again). Why would a weapon skill tree need two? That's what Force Pulse is for, use that.

Why? Because I'm sick of it, that's why. Just like I'm sick of Dizzying Swing. We need more options for classes who don't have their own spammable and rely on weapon trees.

It's redundant as a spammable in the same tree as another, and was overpowered being attached to a stun.

I agreed with you that the 600 spell power is too much of a buff so let's leave the topic at what it was supposed to be about.

It should just stay the same, because right now those 600 spell damage are a loss, people calling it over budget have no idea what 2k TT is compared to 600 spelldamage for 4 seconds on a useless skill.

Right now the only reason to run clench is because you have masters destro and there will be none after they changed it.

Alucardo

iCaliban wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I feel like gaining 600 spell damage across the board for pushing a button is too much. What I'd like to see is

- Increases only destruction staff abilities by X spell damage
- Destructive Touch cost reduced by 30%

The reduced cost was great for magicka builds, especially mag sorcs, who were tired of their old spammable. It gave them options, which is sorely lacking (even more so on stamina, but that's a topic for another day).

You really shouldnt make any comments about pvp considering your primary mode of "pvp" was premading under 50 bgs for almost a year.

I've never done < 50 BGs. The only time I did under 50 pvp was pre-orsinium when everyone's stats were the same no matter what gear you wore. You must have me confused with someone else. Unless you have a screenshot or video of me in < 50 BGs, I'd appreciate you not dragging my name into the dirt thanks.

Vaoh

Would rather this was reverted. It was the only Ability-Altering weapon change which is really disliked.

Destructive Touch is a 10s duration skill. There are many flaws with this new set design;
• This 4s of buff is nonsensical. It conflicts with Warden and Necromancer rotations in PvE.
• The Spell Damage amount is also too much - this will be BiS in PvP because it’s simply a fat stat increase you can’t miss out on. However it also forces you to play in a dumb way. That’s the worst kind of set to introduce. Plus it’s sourced from PvE group arena content.
• The previous version of the vDSA Destro was actually quite great. It managed to create more build diversity through a brand new strong Shock AoE spammable which some players enjoyed using.
• The previous version was responsible for creating the only Shock spammable for Shock Mage players, as well as the only Ice spammable for Ice Mage players. Getting a perfected version was finally going to be an awesome buff to those types of unique, niche builds. It would have been great because those are the exact types of builds to target for buffs....... Instead they converted this set into a weird PvP Weapon.

Maybe the purpose is to get your free 600+ Spell Damage before you Toppling Charge to proc your Stuhn’s Favor...? I hope they revert this.

Alucardo

Vaoh wrote: »

Would rather this was reverted. It was the only Ability-Altering weapon change which is really disliked.

Destructive Touch is a 10s duration skill. There are many flaws with this new set design;
• This 4s of buff is nonsensical. It conflicts with Warden and Necromancer rotations in PvE.
• The Spell Damage amount is also too much - this will be BiS in PvP because it’s simply a fat stat increase you can’t miss out on. However it also forces you to play in a dumb way. That’s the worst kind of set to introduce. Plus it’s sourced from PvE group arena content.
• The previous version of the vDSA Destro was actually quite great. It managed to create more build diversity through a brand new strong Shock AoE spammable which some players enjoyed using.
• The previous version was responsible for creating the only Shock spammable for Shock Mage players, as well as the only Ice spammable for Ice Mage players. Getting a perfected version was finally going to be an awesome buff to those types of unique, niche builds. It would have been great because those are the exact types of builds to target for buffs....... Instead they converted this set into a weird PvP Weapon.

Maybe the purpose is to get your free 600+ Spell Damage before you Toppling Charge to proc your Stuhn’s Favor...? I hope they revert this.

Yeah, tbh the original design is actually really good, without being too over the top. As you say, it also let people live out their fantasy builds like going full lightning or frost damage.
I'd much prefer they reverted the change, but maybe increased the base damage of the skill a little more than it already does, like maybe another 500 or so.
Getting access to a stun followed up by 600 spell damage is going to be a no brainer for a lot of PvP magicka builds. I mean, that's just insane.

Darkenarlol

Vaoh wrote: »

• The previous version was responsible for creating the only Shock spammable for Shock Mage players, as well as the only Ice spammable for Ice Mage players
.

exactly.

i have two builds where this new 600 sd is nothing compared to removed 30% reduce cost and 2k damage bonus

so i'm kinda disappointed by another unasked and unneeded "standardization"

daemonor

Nothing insane about it, just go on the pts and take notes how much your tooltip actually increases with 600 spell damage. Then take into consideration you have to weave this every 3 spells for your alleged 100% uptime of 600 spelldamage.

Then consider who actually uses clench in pvp now? Wardens as their spammable because the 2k tooltip increase and 30% cost reduce is a bigger benefit. If the rework goes thru I could see magblades using it cause it would line up well with arrow and ulti, doubt it will make them on top of the food chain anyway. So who do we got left, magplars? So instead ele drain>potl>charge>sweep you will spend 4 gcds not doing any damage with ele drain>potl>clench>charge before going in and mess up the superior charge stun for 600 spell damage on 3 sweeps? Doubt you will come out on top too.

I agree to not let this version go live, but not because it's OP.

Chelo

Runefang wrote: »

It still seems pretty lackluster in PvE as far as I can tell, I can't get it to work well in a rotation on either Magblade or Magden. Overcasting a weak skill to get 600 spell damage and losing either a monster set or a 5-piece bonus is not worth it.

You will lose the monster set bonus anyway, if you want to build with two 5 piece sets + 2 mythyc items. Mythyc items are body pieces, and they are just too good to ignore them. I'm sure some of them are going to be BiS for PvP, like the one that make you immune to roots and snares...

leepalmer95

daemonor wrote: »

Nothing insane about it, just go on the pts and take notes how much your tooltip actually increases with 600 spell damage. Then take into consideration you have to weave this every 3 spells for your alleged 100% uptime of 600 spelldamage.

Then consider who actually uses clench in pvp now? Wardens as their spammable because the 2k tooltip increase and 30% cost reduce is a bigger benefit. If the rework goes thru I could see magblades using it cause it would line up well with arrow and ulti, doubt it will make them on top of the food chain anyway. So who do we got left, magplars? So instead ele drain>potl>charge>sweep you will spend 4 gcds not doing any damage with ele drain>potl>clench>charge before going in and mess up the superior charge stun for 600 spell damage on 3 sweeps? Doubt you will come out on top too.

I agree to not let this version go live, but not because it's OP.

itll be up when your burst, which is the point.

An extra 600 dmg on frags, curse and fury ty

Aedaryl

Chelo wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

It still seems pretty lackluster in PvE as far as I can tell, I can't get it to work well in a rotation on either Magblade or Magden. Overcasting a weak skill to get 600 spell damage and losing either a monster set or a 5-piece bonus is not worth it.

You will lose the monster set bonus anyway, if you want to build with two 5 piece sets + 2 mythyc items. Mythyc items are body pieces, and they are just too good to ignore them. I'm sure some of them are going to be BiS for PvP, like the one that make you immune to roots and snares...

No.

You can only have one mythic item equiped.

The 2 mythics that will be good in PvP are the malacath band on non crit focused class/builds and the ring of the wild hunt on crit classes/builds.

psychotic13

Chelo wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

It still seems pretty lackluster in PvE as far as I can tell, I can't get it to work well in a rotation on either Magblade or Magden. Overcasting a weak skill to get 600 spell damage and losing either a monster set or a 5-piece bonus is not worth it.

You will lose the monster set bonus anyway, if you want to build with two 5 piece sets + 2 mythyc items. Mythyc items are body pieces, and they are just too good to ignore them. I'm sure some of them are going to be BiS for PvP, like the one that make you immune to roots and snares...

I really dont think that set would be used, immune to snares and immobilizes sounds great but at the cost of sprinting? You would stay alive alot more often just using something to cleanse the effect and still be able to sprint.

On the other hand though, the one that increases sprint speed by 15% in combat, and 45% out of combat will be the speed meta all over again

daemonor

leepalmer95 wrote: »

daemonor wrote: »

Nothing insane about it, just go on the pts and take notes how much your tooltip actually increases with 600 spell damage. Then take into consideration you have to weave this every 3 spells for your alleged 100% uptime of 600 spelldamage.

Then consider who actually uses clench in pvp now? Wardens as their spammable because the 2k tooltip increase and 30% cost reduce is a bigger benefit. If the rework goes thru I could see magblades using it cause it would line up well with arrow and ulti, doubt it will make them on top of the food chain anyway. So who do we got left, magplars? So instead ele drain>potl>charge>sweep you will spend 4 gcds not doing any damage with ele drain>potl>clench>charge before going in and mess up the superior charge stun for 600 spell damage on 3 sweeps? Doubt you will come out on top too.

I agree to not let this version go live, but not because it's OP.

itll be up when your burst, which is the point.

An extra 600 dmg on frags, curse and fury ty

Ok so with major sorcery and master staff up i get about 1.8k tooltip increase on all spells. If battle spirit works like this i assume we halve that to 900. So thats about 2700 extra damage on your burst proc if my maths are correct. Decent but nothing too crazy, tho I would prefer nerfing magsorc then instead of this staff or just nerf magsorc and leave the staff as it is currently on live, that would be best for everyone.