The new high-damage meta could save Cyro lag!

Valdek

So, just imagine.

Big combat starts. Players kick out huge damage and heals are no longer as viable. Using line of sight becomes the best defence. Stacking lots of hots will no longer save you. Ball groups get crushed by huge burst damage, meatbag catapults and vDSA master 2h. The number of buff and debuff stacking calculations sent to the server gets reduced massively, combat is faster and more exciting, the tank meta is broken and cyro becomes far more dynamic.

I hope this will reduce the server load and lag issues.

I, for one, am very excited to see how this will turn out!

RedReign

Remember a month ago when everyone claimed ZoS was nerfing things because they were tired of people dealing such massive damage?

Valdek

From what I've seen, I don't think that PVE damage looks like it will be going up by much. In fact I've seen some people saying it is going down a little for some classes. I may be wrong though as I've not tested myself.

FirmamentOfStars

Actually cyro lag will stay as before, since the bigger the groups, the lesser the healing impacts. You think a ballgroup will feel the nerf to healing? No they wont. Also the damage to those groups probably will not increase, because nobody really want to charge into the to set them offbalance.

Performance in cyro will be the same as before.

Valdek

Well, I also agree with Fengrush when he was talking about the need to reduce the number of potential heals / buffs etc ticking away. That said, proxy det with stranglers and vicious could be fun

Cinbri

Ballgroups are main creators of lag. And they wont be affected by it -> lag will be as bad as it is. Just coz gankers will be able to kill some loners faster wont change anything.

kalunte

Agreed with cinbri, just like the dot meta reduced everyone's life time it didnt change anything ^^

in fact ballgroups will remain omnipotent as long as nothing will be done to prevent this kind of playstyle or at least reduce its efficiency.

what may be usefull to prevent this could be give some kind of chainskill to an hypothetic "magic orb" which'd be active close/inside to inner keeps and would increase the more target it chains too with exponential dmg (Something like "C-thun" from a well known video game has). this would at least prevent ppl from running over and over inside out from keeps.

Valdek

That C'thun move was hillarious btw. xD

But yeah. Maybe they should buff proxy detonation so that it increases up to 24 times like the new Master sword change.

Anything to get rid of these annoying, boring, immersion-breaking and lag inducing ball groups should be done if you ask me.

kojou

I think the real goal should be to make ball groups ineffective for the overall map objectives. That would help spread out players into smaller groups and reduce lag IMO.

For example if unmanned keeps were really easy to take quickly, and occupied keeps were easier to defend it would force groups that cared about controlling the map to cover more ground by spreading out into smaller groups to make sure that everything is defended.

I think in the current map it is too easy for a single large group to move around the entire map and control it. I could be wrong, but that is my opinion. Cool downs on transit, and keep/town rez'ing range restrictions would also help this. Death porting to cross the map never should have been a thing, IMO.

Trying to combat zergs with "new toys" just gives zergs "new toys" to exploit. Combating zergs by making a single hoard less effective at controlling the map will help.

wylievc

kojou wrote: »

I think the real goal should be to make ball groups ineffective for the overall map objectives. That would help spread out players into smaller groups and reduce lag IMO.

I don't know how groups form these days (type x into zone chat?), I don't go into Cryodiil often due to retarding lag. But this made me wonder if a "Commander Tag" system could benefit this issue. Firstly, I see how it could make the issue worse if brainless players gravitate toward map tags. But it might be a good way to spread groups/intel out as well. Make it so anyone can buy a tag but it costs 2 to 5Mil (?) AP, so only those players with some amount of PvP experience can purchase them. Make the tags only show up only in Cyrodiil to disincentivize PvE players from purchasing. Have it so players can see friendly tags on the map and right clicking a tag would allow you to directly join their group, if the commander set their grouping option to "open". This way you could more easily spread intel, "Green tag needs help at Alessia!", open map, find green tag, join group and head to that objective. I don't really know how ball-grouping zerglings otherwise get this information? Read chat or just follow ball group 'x' without a thought? Again, not sure how this would play out, but it would give tools to players to more efficiently spread out groups, or it could just make brainless zerglings gravitate toward the only tag (since no one bought as the tag price was set too high), and make things worse. IDK just a random thought.

idk

Valdek wrote: »

So, just imagine.

Big combat starts. Players kick out huge damage and heals are no longer as viable. Using line of sight becomes the best defence. Stacking lots of hots will no longer save you. Ball groups get crushed by huge burst damage, meatbag catapults and vDSA master 2h. The number of buff and debuff stacking calculations sent to the server gets reduced massively, combat is faster and more exciting, the tank meta is broken and cyro becomes far more dynamic.

I hope this will reduce the server load and lag issues.

I, for one, am very excited to see how this will turn out!

LOL. So more healers in the zerg and we can kill solo player before they realize they got attacked. Seems more like a buff to zerg groups.

Akinos

Cinbri wrote: »

Ballgroups are main creators of lag. And they wont be affected by it -> lag will be as bad as it is. Just coz gankers will be able to kill some loners faster wont change anything.

The main cause of lag are the trash can servers we have to play on that can't handle much of anything at this point. I hate to be that guy but... I'm convinced that ESO will never have good performance no matter what ZO$ says or does. It's not just PvP either that lags either. The megaservers are just mega pieces of junk.

mikey_reach

Scalebreaker was a high damage meta and it did nothing for cyro lag why would next patch be any different

ssewallb14_ESO

They just gave ball groups permanent snare and root immunity, and did 0 to address regen cross healing and synergy damage. They aren't going anywhere lol.

Goregrinder

mikey_reach wrote: »

Scalebreaker was a high damage meta and it did nothing for cyro lag why would next patch be any different

Because it was high DoT-Damage, not normal damage.

Thevampirenight

I do agree with Fengrush as well.
What I think they need to do is reduce the stacking of heals and other buffs and one way they can do this is causing these heals and abilties to cancel each other out. This would force groups to be mindful and well maybe play it differently.
What Fengrush was mentioning was that when groups got so many healing or spamming it say for example like group of 24, 15 players are spamming some type of heal that effects the whole group or most of the group.
Those heals are stacking, stacking and stacking so say they are casting one heal then another heal, 24 x 15= 360 now say they are using heal number 2 on top of that. That is another 360, that equals 720. Because of the stacking that is like 720 calculations
Now put ontop of that ,Rapid Maneuvers, and if this is stacking then you have like everyone casting it. 24 x 24= 576
720 + 576= 1296 now that is 1292 unneeded calculations of stacks that are going off constantly and no wonder its laggy.
Now what they need to do is make heals and rapids cancel the other players heals and rapids out.
So instead of 24 versions of rapids per group only one is ever active for everyone.
When healing one player uses a type of heal on another and that other person uses a heal at the same time one of those gets canceled out and should be canceled out.
So they need to add healing/buff canceling if one is already going off and its very much needed and they need to address this and if they did I think performance would get a lot better for everyone.

Now fight not getting dragged out that might help keep battles from being drawn out and that might help with performance somewhat. But until they address the stuff Fengrush is talking about it might only help so much.

Lumber

So many misconception and complaining about ball groups here.

No they're not the source of lags, lackluster server capacity is.

Awful faction stack for the sake of not missing a tick is the main issue lag wise imo.
There is always 30+ lemmings, arguing that they play solo, who run to the closest under attack objective hoping for some easy AP, without any tactical thinking.

No ball groups won't spread in small groups to play the map. Most don't care about the map. They want to bait a good chunk of people cited above and farm them till they can't anymore.

No matter what handicap ZoS add for them, they will adapt. Unlike the majority, there builds, gameplay and group setup is carefully thought out. Because they want to play as an organized group, nothing more. It's how they have fun, and no one can really blame them because they play the way the game was designed.

Please stop being blind and start reasoning properly, epecially in your action in cyrodiil. That will be a good start for all to enjoy the game more.

But i can keep dreaming i guess.

Giljabrar

Lol, thinking Cyro performance is ever going to improve while the devs say virtually nothing about it in the notes. Let alone reply to our concerns.

People thinking that people dying faster will improve server performance haven't wiped out have of AoTP only to freeze in place after for 7 seconds.

Thraben

Valdek wrote: »

So, just imagine.

Big combat starts. Players kick out huge damage and heals are no longer as viable. Using line of sight becomes the best defence. Stacking lots of hots will no longer save you. Ball groups get crushed by huge burst damage, meatbag catapults and vDSA master 2h. The number of buff and debuff stacking calculations sent to the server gets reduced massively, combat is faster and more exciting, the tank meta is broken and cyro becomes far more dynamic.

I hope this will reduce the server load and lag issues.

I, for one, am very excited to see how this will turn out!

I think I´m getting old... I honestly don`t understand what you are talking about.

1. Why should stacking HoTs no longer save anyone?

2. Since when get ballgroups "crushed" by the 2k Dot of a Meatbag catapult when they all have 30k+ health and at least 55% damage reduction that is unaffected by the penetration stat?

3. A vDSA master 2h is limited by its range - a 7 m conal area means that you will hardly hit more than 5 people with it, unless they are brain afk at the second flag. Raising its cap to 24 is like promoting a janitor to the position of "key house services manager" - sounds good, motivates the fools, and changes nothing at all.

Major_Lag

Valdek wrote: »

So, just imagine.

Big combat starts. Players kick out huge damage and heals are no longer as viable. Using line of sight becomes the best defence. Stacking lots of hots will no longer save you.

If you are a solo/smallman player - yeah, you'll be in trouble, all right.

Ballgroups and zergs will hardly notice a difference - especially the former already have a lot of overhealing going on, nerfs or no nerfs.

Valdek wrote: »

Ball groups get crushed by huge burst damage, meatbag catapults and vDSA master 2h.

Lol.
Dream on

Valdek wrote: »

The number of buff and debuff stacking calculations sent to the server gets reduced massively, combat is faster and more exciting, the tank meta is broken and cyro becomes far more dynamic laggy.

I think you made a typo there, but I fixed it for you

Giljabrar

If you think that's gonna fix the lag, then riddle me this.

Why is Grey Host as laggy as 2/2/2 bar as it as at poplock/poplock/poplock

But Blackreach doesn't have a single issue at 2/2/2 bar pop?

***. Server.

Until they upgrade it, no amount of reworking code is going to improve our lives.

Stop listening to Fengrush lol

Valdek

Lumber wrote: »

So many misconception and complaining about ball groups here.

No they're not the source of lags, lackluster server capacity is.

Awful faction stack for the sake of not missing a tick is the main issue lag wise imo.
There is always 30+ lemmings, arguing that they play solo, who run to the closest under attack objective hoping for some easy AP, without any tactical thinking.

No ball groups won't spread in small groups to play the map. Most don't care about the map. They want to bait a good chunk of people cited above and farm them till they can't anymore.

No matter what handicap ZoS add for them, they will adapt. Unlike the majority, there builds, gameplay and group setup is carefully thought out. Because they want to play as an organized group, nothing more. It's how they have fun, and no one can really blame them because they play the way the game was designed.

Please stop being blind and start reasoning properly, epecially in your action in cyrodiil. That will be a good start for all to enjoy the game more.

But i can keep dreaming i guess.

I agree with everything you've said, except I definitely notice that ball groups have a negative impact on server performance.

My hope is that they will change things so that organised groups still work together but DON'T run around in these ball groups. Would you not like them to 'adapt' to needing to spread out to work effectively? Even lag aside, I think ball groups are immersion breaking and boring.

Lumber

Valdek wrote: »

I agree with everything you've said, except I definitely notice that ball groups have a negative impact on server performance.

My hope is that they will change things so that organised groups still work together but DON'T run around in these ball groups. Would you not like them to 'adapt' to needing to spread out to work effectively? Even lag aside, I think ball groups are immersion breaking and boring.

A ball group is about 8 to 15 players at most nowadays. Very indirectly they might cause some performances decrease.
But it's rather due to the 30 to 60 brain dead zombie that rush them and die over and over or siege them for hours. If those would play smarter or just let the ball group starve in an empty keep it would probably be better performance wise.

In a game without targeting, where every buff and debuff you can bring in "large" group play have 12m at most as maximum range, you can't really expect anything than people stacking to play effectively.
And to change it, that's the whole game system you have to rebuild.

There was a time where cyrodiil population was 3 times larger at the very least. Performances weren't perfect (on a last emp keep for example) but the whole thing was really smoother than it is now. And it was way more interesting because there was not just ONE ugly and zergy active fight per faction.

Really the only proper solution ZoS have is to increase there damn server capacity.