Just in case anyone was wondering what a 32k spammable looks like...

Langeston

Yes, for only 5,526 magicka, two button presses, and two seconds of your time, you too can do over 42k damage to anyone with less than 25k resists. (Yes this setup also has 25,173 penetration.) Who would have thought that a craftable set with 13.5k penetration and a single item "set" with a 1-item bonus of 3k spell damage would be useful?

I can't wait for this next patch to go live. I'm sure combat will be so...diverse.🙄
Note: the only buffs used for these tooltips was Major Sorcery.

Banana

Still waiting on class change so I can get in on this

Firstmep

That 3k spell damage has a massive downside of 40% increased damage taken, Stuhns on the other hand is a bit overtuned for sure.

Alucardo

Duelled a few Magplars on PTS with my 40k resistance Werewolf. 60% crit, 45k stamina, 4k+ weapon damage. Keeping in mind this is pack leader with the new 10% mitigation. I got absolutely destroyed in seconds. I don't know what they did to Magplars, or what sets they were running, but damn son.
I guess it doesn't help that I only have one heal in my tank, and if it didn't crit then it would barely do anything against a bombardment of so much damage. They can also purge my DoTS, including HoT.
Like I don't even know how to defend against that kind of damage. Having a huge stack of resistances and extra mitigation did not help one bit.
I tested with more defensive sets, but my damage was so low they could just heal through it and still destroy me eventually. I don't know if it's because Werewolf still blows, or the new sets are overperforming. But I can tell you this ain't gonna be fun for the receiving end.

Qbiken

Posting cheesed tooltip without showcase what you were using is pointless. In order to reach these numbers you´re forced into a full damage setup, which is rarely ideal in open world PvP unless you zergsurf, or in this case, dueling.

So ye, WTB context.....

Langeston

Qbiken wrote: »

Posting cheesed tooltip without showcase what you were using is pointless. In order to reach these numbers you´re forced into a full damage setup, which is rarely ideal in open world PvP unless you zergsurf, or in this case, dueling.

So ye, WTB context.....

I was using a Dunmer, 1 Domihaus, 5 NMA, 5 Stuhn's, Thassian Stragglers, Apprentice Mundus, 3 Triune Jewelry with SD enchants, all Tri-Stat glyphs, and Bewitched Sugar Skulls food. Is that enough context? If I wanted to completely cheese it I'd do all magicka glyphs, infused jewelry, and bi or mono stat food.

Even if I switch to 1pc Chudan, go all 3 regen glyphs on the jewelry, and swap to the thief mundus, the tooltips look like this:

That's still a 37,787 2 button combo — if it doesn't crit once. I can swap out NMA for Bright Throat's or Amber Plasm if you like, I guarantee the tooltips will still be absurd. When you take an absurdly overtuned skill and add two absurdly overtuned sets, what do you expect?

Here are the stats if you're interested:


Oh, and if you don't think Cyrodiil is going to be crawling with vamp-plars running this combo (or something eerily similar to it) I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

[edit] Just tried it with Bright Throat's, 1 regen/2 SD glyphs, and Spring Loaded Infusion — 22k Puncturing Sweep tooltip, 30,454 with Burning Light proc.

Qbiken

Langeston wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Posting cheesed tooltip without showcase what you were using is pointless. In order to reach these numbers you´re forced into a full damage setup, which is rarely ideal in open world PvP unless you zergsurf, or in this case, dueling.

So ye, WTB context.....

I was using 1 Domihaus, 5 NMA, 5 Stuhn's, Thassian Stragglers, Apprentice Mundus, 3 Triune Jewelry with SD enchants, all Tri-Stat glyphs, and Bewitched Sugar Skulls food. Is that enough context? If I wanted to completely cheese it I'd do all magicka glyphs, infused jewelry, and bi or mono stat food.

Even if I switch to 1pc Chudan, go all 3 regen glyphs on the jewelry, and swap to the thief mundus, the tooltips look like this:

That's still a 37,787 2 button combo — if it doesn't crit once. I can swap out NMA for Bright Throat's or Amber Plasm if you like, I guarantee the tooltips will still be absurd. When you take an absurdly overtuned skill and add two absurdly overtuned sets, what do you expect?

Here are the stats if you're interested:


Oh, and if you don't think Cyrodiil is going to be crawling with invisible vamp-plars running this combo (or something eerily similar to it) I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Ty for the reply and taking your time putting it down, exactly the context I was looking for

Langeston

Qbiken wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Posting cheesed tooltip without showcase what you were using is pointless. In order to reach these numbers you´re forced into a full damage setup, which is rarely ideal in open world PvP unless you zergsurf, or in this case, dueling.

So ye, WTB context.....

I was using 1 Domihaus, 5 NMA, 5 Stuhn's, Thassian Stragglers, Apprentice Mundus, 3 Triune Jewelry with SD enchants, all Tri-Stat glyphs, and Bewitched Sugar Skulls food. Is that enough context? If I wanted to completely cheese it I'd do all magicka glyphs, infused jewelry, and bi or mono stat food.

Even if I switch to 1pc Chudan, go all 3 regen glyphs on the jewelry, and swap to the thief mundus, the tooltips look like this:

That's still a 37,787 2 button combo — if it doesn't crit once. I can swap out NMA for Bright Throat's or Amber Plasm if you like, I guarantee the tooltips will still be absurd. When you take an absurdly overtuned skill and add two absurdly overtuned sets, what do you expect?

Here are the stats if you're interested:


Oh, and if you don't think Cyrodiil is going to be crawling with invisible vamp-plars running this combo (or something eerily similar to it) I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Ty for the reply and taking your time putting it down, exactly the context I was looking for

You're welcome.

Marcus_Thracius

Hope this goes live - cant wait to overpenetrate
I will live my ww fantasy

olsborg

Stuhns Set is bonkers, crazy set that rly needs a rework. Off balance is only easily available to specific classes and gear setups, even if it wasnt, that set is more dmg then the game should allow.

FirmamentOfStars

Ok why are you posting tooltips from a totally unviable PvP build? This does not make any sense.

First off your build has almost zero resistances and no critical resistance. Even if the new meta will be high pen and low crit (saying its because of impen nerf is not really an excuse, since you easy get 2.5k critical resistance on PTS), this build will not be viable at all. Secondly Thassian Stragglers is also not really an option for PvP, since you will never reach many stacks of damage, because you would have to get an insane killing streak for that, the damage taken would be insane and the stacks would fall off anyway.

So you are showing pretty much a non viable cheese tooltip and complain? Additionally even if you fully penetrate your enemies armor, the damage of the tooltips will be halfed anyway due to battle spirit and we can assume, that pretty much everyone runs a form of minor protection and other mitigation sources plus cps. So even if you fully penetrate your enemy, you can assume, that actually a third of your tooltip may actually damage your enemy, if he doesnt run evasion or dodges, moves or blocks. So why are you complaining about 14k damage from a not viable/actually not achievable build in PvP, when stam chars probably hit for the same damage without going glass cannon, but with heavy armor.

cheemers

Thrassian Stranglers is not a PvP viable piece. It falls off if you travel to a different keep. If you want to spend half an hour killing wolves in overland cyrodiil, then ride to every battle only without teleporting, and can survive a 40% extra damage snipe, then you can talk about Stranglers. Otherwise take off 3000 spell damage from your tooltips and tell us where you stand lol

Vaoh

Stuhn’s Favor has BiS 2/3/4-piece bonuses and the 5-piece is equal to nearly nine penetration stat bonuses.

I think ZOS added an extra zero somewhere on their spreadsheet when they balanced this.....

Kolzki

Take the penetration from the lover with full divines and scale it by one over the uptime of off balance. 4196 pen x 22 cool down / 7 uptime. That gives you almost exactly the penetration from the stuhn’s 5 piece. That’s balanced yeah? No!

Eso pvp is about burst and not averages. The burst potential here is crazy. You can’t balance damage/stat procs in pvp around averages. Burst has much greater value.

Ruder

My 53k resistance Werewolf says Hi

Saubon

Langeston wrote: »

Oh, and if you don't think Cyrodiil is going to be crawling with vamp-plars running this combo (or something eerily similar to it) I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Look at the tooltip of these gloves, please. When you get invisible or when you see a loading screen you gonna loose all of your stacks. And when you are fully stacked you have +40% dmg taken, only option how can you work around this are 2 defensive sets.

Only thing that is OP in this setup is Stuhn's set.

Derra

I really hope ppl run thrassian stranglers instead of band of malacath tbh. atleast they enables way more dmg on themselves than they gain from it.

JinMori

i don't care about this set,so if they change it it's irrelevant to me.

But the gloves set, for one, you will take 40 % more damage, and in pvp that's pretty much certain doom, and if you invis or crouch you lose the buff, which happens in pvp a lot more than pve.

And everytime you die you are gonna have to restack to 20 by getting a killing blow, yea, not viable. Gank 1 or 2 people, die, and repeat.

But in my opinion, if they wanna nerf the tank meta in pvp, that has been boring and too dominant, to bring sets like this is fine, but if you also nerf the defensive sets we have a problem, because now nobody can survive for more than 2 seconds.

In my opinion if they wanna keep sets like these, they also should unnerf sets like bloodspawn etc...

The nerf to healing instead, i don;t know, i do not pvp much, but i did hear that healing was overtuned, a lot.

FirmamentOfStars

Ok I shortly made a viable build on the UESP build editor. Since I somehow could not apply max level crafted gear and the malacath band of brutality, I just replaced stuhn with spriggans and one jewelry with a non-fitting infused jewelry piece. Build is 5 new moon, 5 spriggans front bar, potatoes backbar, one piece kena.

Now lets assume spriggans will be replaced with stuhn and the one piece non-fiiting jewelry is the malacath band. We can assume, that we have very high penentration with 13.3k dizzying swing tooltip, 17.4k blastbones tooltip and 17.4k dawnbreaker. Together this makes 48.1k damage in 2 seconds same as OPs example. Additionally we multiply this damage by 25% from the malacaths band resulting in 60.1k damage. We maybe dont hit the same pen as OP, since we get like 18k-ish penetration from stuhn, new moon and cps plus the additional pen from the maul. But on the other hand we have major defile on the enemy.

Not sure what now is more OP: this viable stamnecro build with a higher tooltip, defile but less penetration, or the cheese non viable magplar build.

Langeston

SavageChain wrote: »

Ok why are you posting tooltips from a totally unviable PvP build? This does not make any sense.

First off your build has almost zero resistances and no critical resistance. Even if the new meta will be high pen and low crit (saying its because of impen nerf is not really an excuse, since you easy get 2.5k critical resistance on PTS), this build will not be viable at all. Secondly Thassian Stragglers is also not really an option for PvP, since you will never reach many stacks of damage, because you would have to get an insane killing streak for that, the damage taken would be insane and the stacks would fall off anyway.

So you are showing pretty much a non viable cheese tooltip and complain? Additionally even if you fully penetrate your enemies armor, the damage of the tooltips will be halfed anyway due to battle spirit and we can assume, that pretty much everyone runs a form of minor protection and other mitigation sources plus cps. So even if you fully penetrate your enemy, you can assume, that actually a third of your tooltip may actually damage your enemy, if he doesnt run evasion or dodges, moves or blocks. So why are you complaining about 14k damage from a not viable/actually not achievable build in PvP, when stam chars probably hit for the same damage without going glass cannon, but with heavy armor.

[snip]/i]

[edited for baiting]
Regardless...

First off I wasn't using impen because I forgot to transmute it from divines — that's the way sets come on the PTS. Sue me. I also didn't have Major Resolve up, as I mentioned in the OP.

The mundus I was using in the second set of tooltips was the Thief, so take of a couple percent of critical off if it really bothers you that much. If the resists are what bother you, then throw on Pariah — it doesn't matter — Thrassian is still a 1pc set that gives you 3600 spell damage [with Major sorcery].

In fact, I'll do the legwork for you — here it is with Pariah & Stuhn's, 1 piece of Chudan, NO spell damage glyphs (3 mag regen):

So we're still looking at a two button 36k combo (again, that's if nothing crits) with 23,686 penetration, on a build that has 35k+ resistances with Pariah procced and nearly 30k health in Cyrodiil. (And 7 impen, just for you!😉)

As far as requiring a "killing streak," simply killing those 1 hp crabs that are always running around gives you stacks — go kill some trash mobs and you're all set.

Do I think this set is going to be the bees-knees for solo players/small groups? Nope, not at all. But who wants to bet that we're gonna see AD zergs standing around farming wolves so they can more easily curb-stomp small groups & solo players?

Papachico

Langeston wrote: »

Yes, for only 5,526 magicka, two button presses, and two seconds of your time, you too can do over 42k damage to anyone with less than 25k resists. (Yes this setup also has 25,173 penetration.) Who would have thought that a craftable set with 13.5k penetration and a single item "set" with a 1-item bonus of 3k spell damage would be useful?

I can't wait for this next patch to go live. I'm sure combat will be so...diverse.🙄
Note: the only buffs used for these tooltips was Major Sorcery.

Toppling at me and i'll block/dodge and *** you up in 2 seconds since you take 40% more damage. My 1,5K tooltip (secondary) on jabs will hit you for the same value (1,5 * 1,4 = 2,1k) as yours. So I would say pretty balanced and good luck surviving.

GRXRG

Papachico wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Yes, for only 5,526 magicka, two button presses, and two seconds of your time, you too can do over 42k damage to anyone with less than 25k resists. (Yes this setup also has 25,173 penetration.) Who would have thought that a craftable set with 13.5k penetration and a single item "set" with a 1-item bonus of 3k spell damage would be useful?

I can't wait for this next patch to go live. I'm sure combat will be so...diverse.🙄
Note: the only buffs used for these tooltips was Major Sorcery.

Toppling at me and i'll block/dodge and *** you up in 2 seconds since you take 40% more damage. My 1,5K tooltip (secondary) on jabs will hit you for the same value (1,5 * 1,4 = 2,1k) as yours. So I would say pretty balanced and good luck surviving.

Pretty much this, this thing build can kill once, but as soon you realize it and you block or dodge toppling and counter stun him, he maybe die with a single ultimate and few spammable hits.

In no-cp there is no way you can sustain a build like that, so it's basically kill and get killed immediately after, kill and get killed immediately after, kill and get killed immediately after.

I think snipers from over 40 range will be much more a problem if the desync remain as it is now.

RedReign

Qbiken wrote: »

Posting cheesed tooltip without showcase what you were using is pointless. In order to reach these numbers you´re forced into a full damage setup, which is rarely ideal in open world PvP unless you zergsurf, or in this case, dueling.

So ye, WTB context.....

I'd be willing to bet they used Thrassian Stranglers to pump up Spell Damage by a ton and then dropped vampire on top of it.

FirmamentOfStars

Langeston wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Ok why are you posting tooltips from a totally unviable PvP build? This does not make any sense.

First off your build has almost zero resistances and no critical resistance. Even if the new meta will be high pen and low crit (saying its because of impen nerf is not really an excuse, since you easy get 2.5k critical resistance on PTS), this build will not be viable at all. Secondly Thassian Stragglers is also not really an option for PvP, since you will never reach many stacks of damage, because you would have to get an insane killing streak for that, the damage taken would be insane and the stacks would fall off anyway.

So you are showing pretty much a non viable cheese tooltip and complain? Additionally even if you fully penetrate your enemies armor, the damage of the tooltips will be halfed anyway due to battle spirit and we can assume, that pretty much everyone runs a form of minor protection and other mitigation sources plus cps. So even if you fully penetrate your enemy, you can assume, that actually a third of your tooltip may actually damage your enemy, if he doesnt run evasion or dodges, moves or blocks. So why are you complaining about 14k damage from a not viable/actually not achievable build in PvP, when stam chars probably hit for the same damage without going glass cannon, but with heavy armor.

[snip]

[edited for baiting]

Regardless...

First off I wasn't using impen because I forgot to transmute it from divines — that's the way sets come on the PTS. Sue me. I also didn't have Major Resolve up, as I mentioned in the OP.

The mundus I was using in the second set of tooltips was the Thief, so take of a couple percent of critical off if it really bothers you that much. If the resists are what bother you, then throw on Pariah — it doesn't matter — Thrassian is still a 1pc set that gives you 3600 spell damage [with Major sorcery].

In fact, I'll do the legwork for you — here it is with Pariah & Stuhn's, 1 piece of Chudan, NO spell damage glyphs (3 mag regen):

So we're still looking at a two button 36k combo (again, that's if nothing crits) with 23,686 penetration, on a build that has 35k+ resistances with Pariah procced and nearly 30k health in Cyrodiil. (And 7 impen, just for you!😉)

As far as requiring a "killing streak," simply killing those 1 hp crabs that are always running around gives you stacks — go kill some trash mobs and you're all set.

Do I think this set is going to be the bees-knees for solo players/small groups? Nope, not at all. But who wants to bet that we're gonna see AD zergs standing around farming wolves so they can more easily curb-stomp small groups & solo players?

Sry mate, not defensive man, but realistic. Thrassian Stragglers is not viable in PvP, since the stacks fall off very easely and 40% damage taken means you are one shot to any stamclass. Nobody will wear this set, so you can forget your 3.6k spelldamage and therefore your high tooltip. On the other hand I posted a kind of meta stamina build, which gets more damage and tooltip in the same time with defile. Also the build actually is more than viable compared to yours.

Your lets say viable build has 36k damage in 2 seconds, mine has 60k and defile. Additionally mine has considerable tankyness like minor protection, major protection, potatoes, 10% damage mitigation, 15% dot damage reduction, etc. The difference of penetration you have will not make up anything compared to stamina with stuhns.

If we matched up our builds in a duel, you would have a 36k tooltip, which gets halfed by battle spirit. Than against cps, major and minor prot, 10% reduction and potatoes...maybe it will hit for 10k...
Now my necro has 60k plus 40% means 84k damage in the same time as yours. halfed its 42k and since a templar get merely minor protection and lets say you have 15k resistances left after my penetration, then in total have 25% mitigation plus cps....so probably I hit you for 20-30k
What was bigger again, 10k or 20-30k?

Sanguinor2

I find stamcro results with this cheese funnier tbh. (Edit: forgot to use a Mundus Stone lmao)
Stats

FirmamentOfStars

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

I find stamcro results with this cheese funnier tbh. (Edit: forgot to use a Mundus Stone lmao)
Stats

I tried to make OP realize that too, that his try to make templar look so cool was pretty much senseless compared to pretty much every stamden, stamdk, stamnecro or stamsorc build out there.

Sanguinor2

SavageChain wrote: »

I tried to make OP realize that too, that his try to make templar look so cool was pretty much senseless compared to pretty much every stamden, stamdk, stamnecro or stamsorc build out there.

Using a Mundus Stone I reach up to 8.5k weapon Damage.
Using Brp dual wield reduces the build to a measly 7.8k weapon Damage but gives us Major Evasion, Major Expedition and 10% Damage done and 10% reduced Damage.

RedReign

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

I tried to make OP realize that too, that his try to make templar look so cool was pretty much senseless compared to pretty much every stamden, stamdk, stamnecro or stamsorc build out there.

Using a Mundus Stone I reach up to 8.5k weapon Damage.
Using Brp dual wield reduces the build to a measly 7.8k weapon Damage but gives us Major Evasion, Major Expedition and 10% Damage done and 10% reduced Damage.

And if were being honest, 6K weapon damage is enough, 7.8K is enough to slaughter anything you encounter outside of trials.

Sanguinor2

RedReign wrote: »

And if were being honest, 6K weapon damage is enough, 7.8K is enough to slaughter anything you encounter outside of trials.

Oh and I forgot to Mention in previous comments, build is with stuhns and a maul, so it also has over 20k pen.

Davadin

SavageChain wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

I find stamcro results with this cheese funnier tbh. (Edit: forgot to use a Mundus Stone lmao)
Stats

I tried to make OP realize that too, that his try to make templar look so cool was pretty much senseless compared to pretty much every stamden, stamdk, stamnecro or stamsorc build out there.

excuse me? stamDK here. can I have some of the cheese?

currently running NMA and Titanborn that gives ~460 damage when I'm under 50% health (Spriggan was soo yesterday).

I think I'll be crafting myself some Stuhns and hoping for Malacath ring when Grey goes live... my crit chance is 25% only anyway.

The_Camper

OP was pretty much exaggerating. Only thing broken in that "THEORY" build is stuhns. and why templar? I'll use the same set on my stamden and cliff racer from a distance into shalks and DB. everything will happen so fast you wouldn't even know what happened.

Stamcro? pop BB and hit a swing. and whatever you hit with the person next hits with Blasted bones and it' pretty much over. block and heal? good luck with that while the major defile is on that guy with 100% uptime.

Even the broken down nightblade class. clock > surprise attack. everything that follow will pretty much ignore all the resistances.

MagDK? fossilize into whip and oh boy..

so just say that specific set is broken. not misleading people into thinking that some class or skills are broken through pure hyperbole.