For real, please reconsider the Bloodspawn nerf ZOS

Hurbster

Ufretin wrote: »

ZOS view "balancing" as some form of haggling: When they want a -25% nerf they start out at -50% on PTS and after enough player protests they "generously" settle for a -25% nerf on live

That is exactly what they did with Iceheart.

Chilly-McFreeze

D3N7157 wrote: »

I disagree I’m sick of using one monster set I a all my pvp builds for 5 years straight, I finally feel I need to try out something new, this nerf should have come earlier, BS is easily the most overused set in the game.

Also take a look at balorgh this is for sure my to go monster set for PVP now, a really welcome change.

May it be that BS was „overused“ bc most other monster sets simply arent worth it on their own?

And I don‘t want to be the buzzkill to your balrogh but what do you think will happen if that sets will stand out positively? Do they raise the alternatives up or will they simply cut the good one down.

You know the answer. And yes, how you feel about it strongly depends where you draw the line what makes Sets good/ fun/ viable. Just mind that if you bring everything nice down to mediocre or decon Level, it wont increase the fun in this Game.

Rave the Histborn

Hurbster wrote: »

Ufretin wrote: »

ZOS view "balancing" as some form of haggling: When they want a -25% nerf they start out at -50% on PTS and after enough player protests they "generously" settle for a -25% nerf on live

That is exactly what they did with Iceheart.

Yup, and well look at the Iceheart is still fine and viable. Crazy how that works

khajiitNPC

Oh well — BS won’t be best in slot anymore. Myself I’ll continue to use it on my Stam Warden, it just makes the armor potions more appealing. The loss in ult regen will be meh.

Gaebriel0410

As a tank using Bloodspawn, I'm pretty fine with the nerf. I mean, nerfs are never fun but from what I've seen in the patch notes, there's been similar nerfs for defensive sets across the board. so it's obviously part of an overall design.

Right now there's maybe a handful of really good choices for tank 2-piece sets, so if this results in a larger pool of good tank sets with a similar relative strength to choose from (without some being obviously way stronger), it's all fine with me.

I'm not good enough of a theorycrafter to say if it's overnerfed or not, but I do think that sometimes the individual has to suffer for better overall game balance.

JSTCH

im confused at to why people are calling it a tank meta?? As far as I'm concerned if someone wishes to build a tank and be near unkillable then let them be that. It's not hard to ignore them in cyrodil as they deal no damage and are only annoying if they run chains or silver leash when your running from their Zerg. On the other hand These so called tanks that that can finish you in seconds with a well timed combo are more than likely good players that stack damage which ebables better healing done therefore making them seem tanky when really they are just good with their heals. As healing is taking a nerf i dont see why there is a need to nerf sets like bloodspawn and the one pieces of chudan etc. this is a move in a backwards direction.

As far as I'm concerned if your struggling to play this game (besides the skill delay and lag) then you need to practice more. I can play the game with no problems killing, on a crappy Australian connection and win the majority of my fights unless outnumbered or vs equally good or better players. Now I run small scale pvp 1-5 man groups with no healers or tanks and we can take down most tanks and healers we come across with some well time ulti dumps.

Zos Just because people can't kill good players doesn't mean they need a nerf it means the loyal experienced players are still around and still out there killing you less experienced crowd. At the end of the day they are what's made your money and payed your bills since launch. Stop punishing them

xshatox

So, in stamdk I utilize this set to proc furry and prepare for leap. What is next best alternative for this or the nerf is neglible?

Thogard

Honestly I’m OK with it and I use it on literally all of my toons. It’s a needed nerf.

D0PAMINE

Bloodspawn was extremely well designed. If you think a Bloodspawn nerf will dismantle the pvp tank meta, well, lol. There are many factors like mitigation including CP, Temporal Guard, Potentates. Very high weapon damage with high self healing. People will still be tanky after this.

Sarousse

To be honest, it'll still be hard to choose another monster helmet even with after the nerf.

Alucardo

Sarousse wrote: »

To be honest, it'll still be hard to choose another monster helmet even with after the nerf.

That has always been the problem. Instead of introducing juicy alternatives, they always nerf the well designed stuff. What poor Bloodspawn received was no mere merf, they mangled it beyond recognition.

ZarkingFrued

BloodSpawn was in balance with the nerfs they have been doing, this nerf actually makes it half as valuable as almost any other 2 piece to a build. BloodSpawn is dead, not "balanced" now. All good, another set to sit and rot now.

ZarkingFrued

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I use this set as much as any other person...

I think this change is fine because they have adjusted all defensive sets and in doing so are attempting to tackle the tank meta. It has caused no end of complaints for too long.

I would like it if they increased its proc chance though maybe to 10 - 15%?
I think then it isn't as bad because you won't be as tanky, but will have higher up time.
besides the ulti you get back has already been adjusted so I don't think it would be OP.

I'd certainly be happy if they adjusted the numbers like that so we could test it out to see if it's worth using. In its current state I'll probably end up deconstructing it because there's far better options out there.

5% mitigation, and 8 ult every 5 seconds. The set was so uvertuned that even after getting cut in half it's still a strong set...

Lmao, people only attacked Bloodspawn because their other sets got nerfed. No one cared until now. Now it's a carry? Rofl. Who cares? It's gone like every other set or skill worthwhile in ESO history. No good build will use it.

Ghnami

Bloodspawn makes for stale ass pvp that relies on a 6% proc to give you a fight, or you just melt anyway. I like the nerf, but I would have preferred to see them rework it to either a defensive buff proc or an ulti gen proc primarily, with a small side of the other, like 5 ult and 6300 resistances, or 14 ult and 2k resistances. Honestly it's so *** dull playing against and with bloodspawn, and the fact that DKs exist and use it for stupid amounts of leaps makes it so frustrating, especially with a set like fury. The literal way to beat those builds is to NOT engage with them for 10s+, then all in, and if you don't kill them retreat again cuz you're about to get your ass smacked.

A lot of times, the difference between those sick 1vx clips and a quick death is literally if bloodspawn stays up or not. It isn't skill. It isn't sick outplays, or even minor outplays like stealthing with troll king regen, it's literally a 6% chance to stay alive or die. Not fun.

I can't wait for the Balorgh META. Screw bloodspawn and the staleness it brings. With balorgh, you get rewarded for doing something well, ulting at the right time and exploiting the aftermath of bursting someone is EXACTLY what can make pvp fun and interesting, sure you'll get people pve'ing to 500 ulti and one shotting, but honestly I always prefer to be able to be bursted rather than not be able to kill other players based on a 6% chance.

Chilly-McFreeze

Lol. Everything is a cheap ass carry, right? If you had real issues killing someone it surely wasn't because of bloodspawn.

Ghnami

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lol. Everything is a cheap ass carry, right? If you had real issues killing someone it surely wasn't because of bloodspawn.

How can you say that? Surely, it wasn't because a DK got their ult up 10s earlier than they should have for resources and damage and heals, nope, that isn't a bloodspawn problem, even though the literal only way this happens is because bloodspawn. That person didn't survive at 10% hp because they had 6300 additional mitigation. Nope, none of that has ever happened, and if it did, it was my fault. Never mind I totally understand your point you're right.

Hapexamendios

Nothing should be nerfed or buffed for PvP or PVE that adversely affects the other. This is just incompetent as far as I'm concerned. Balance them separately. It's obvious you can't do it together.

Chilly-McFreeze

Ghnami wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lol. Everything is a cheap ass carry, right? If you had real issues killing someone it surely wasn't because of bloodspawn.

How can you say that? Surely, it wasn't because a DK got their ult up 10s earlier than they should have for resources and damage and heals, nope, that isn't a bloodspawn problem, even though the literal only way this happens is because bloodspawn. That person didn't survive at 10% hp because they had 6300 additional mitigation. Nope, none of that has ever happened, and if it did, it was my fault. Never mind I totally understand your point you're right.

And you think bloodspawn is the biggest offender in the tank meta? Not % mitigation modifiers, cross healing and nerfed "tank busters" like oblivion dmg, bleeds and dots in general?

E: oh, and I wrote "carry". If someone sucks he will still suck when using bloodspawn. Does it give you and advantage? Sure. It's a monster set, that is what it's supposed to do. Why else slot it?

Dracane

Please go through with it. It is the most used monster set on all specs for good reason.

TequilaFire

Yeah it actually works, nerf it.
Players crying nerf is why this game is in the toilet.

Ghnami

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Ghnami wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lol. Everything is a cheap ass carry, right? If you had real issues killing someone it surely wasn't because of bloodspawn.

How can you say that? Surely, it wasn't because a DK got their ult up 10s earlier than they should have for resources and damage and heals, nope, that isn't a bloodspawn problem, even though the literal only way this happens is because bloodspawn. That person didn't survive at 10% hp because they had 6300 additional mitigation. Nope, none of that has ever happened, and if it did, it was my fault. Never mind I totally understand your point you're right.

And you think bloodspawn is the biggest offender in the tank meta? Not % mitigation modifiers, cross healing and nerfed "tank busters" like oblivion dmg, bleeds and dots in general?

E: oh, and I wrote "carry". If someone sucks he will still suck when using bloodspawn. Does it give you and advantage? Sure. It's a monster set, that is what it's supposed to do. Why else slot it?

Probably not, but Bloodspawn's interaction with the flat % makes it that much better, keeping you alive to tick another 14 ult or making you take 5% incoming damage because of proc+percentages+block. It is a piece to the puzzle, and in my eyes one of the easier pieces to adjust. I would prefer major protection only be 15 or 20% in pvp, 30% is massive.

Also yeah, rip good tank-busting stuff, but balorgh/stuhn is about to fill that hole in a real good way.

The problem with bloodspawn was never that bad players used it, but that good players, and exceptional players, used it in such a way that it's effectiveness was so far beyond balanced. If those amazing players can't get these killer stats off a 6% proc anymore, I only see that being a good thing for the game since they'll be developing new play styles with new sets instead of relying on RNGesus to be so op. Someone that backbars and blocks when proc goes down in 1vx is going to get 5000% more out of that set than any noob simply wearing it.

clocksstoppe

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Very high weapon damage with high self healing.

Exactly this. The only way to stop the pvp tank meta is to remove healing scaling with weapon/spell damage. You know, like the game was intended to, like it was intended that damage was only damage and that resources wouldn't equate damage.

Ever since ZOS made damage scale with stam/mag and healing scale with weapons, the entire balance has gone down the drain because people will always be able to create a super tank build with minimal support from tank effects, by just having a ton of damage / resources and using defensive skills and like 1 or 2 defensive items/set effects. Bloodspawn just happened to be the most efficient 2 item tank support.

Mr_Walker

clocksstoppe wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Very high weapon damage with high self healing.

Exactly this. The only way to stop the pvp tank meta is to remove healing scaling with weapon/spell damage. You know, like the game was intended to, like it was intended that damage was only damage and that resources wouldn't equate damage.

Ever since ZOS made damage scale with stam/mag and healing scale with weapons, the entire balance has gone down the drain because people will always be able to create a super tank build with minimal support from tank effects, by just having a ton of damage / resources and using defensive skills and like 1 or 2 defensive items/set effects. Bloodspawn just happened to be the most efficient 2 item tank support.

These dudes get it.

Combine healing scaling off of damage with some of the broken sets in the game = broken game.

Ghnami

Mr_Walker wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Very high weapon damage with high self healing.

Exactly this. The only way to stop the pvp tank meta is to remove healing scaling with weapon/spell damage. You know, like the game was intended to, like it was intended that damage was only damage and that resources wouldn't equate damage.

Ever since ZOS made damage scale with stam/mag and healing scale with weapons, the entire balance has gone down the drain because people will always be able to create a super tank build with minimal support from tank effects, by just having a ton of damage / resources and using defensive skills and like 1 or 2 defensive items/set effects. Bloodspawn just happened to be the most efficient 2 item tank support.

These dudes get it.

Combine healing scaling off of damage with some of the broken sets in the game = broken game.

And nothing synergizes better with the brokenness than bloodspawn, so while the nerf doesn't adjust the brokenness atthe root, it should help make it less overbearing/prolific. Burst is the champ, losing so much mitigation from bloodspawn will make those builds much more vulnerable.

clocksstoppe

Ghnami wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Very high weapon damage with high self healing.

Exactly this. The only way to stop the pvp tank meta is to remove healing scaling with weapon/spell damage. You know, like the game was intended to, like it was intended that damage was only damage and that resources wouldn't equate damage.

Ever since ZOS made damage scale with stam/mag and healing scale with weapons, the entire balance has gone down the drain because people will always be able to create a super tank build with minimal support from tank effects, by just having a ton of damage / resources and using defensive skills and like 1 or 2 defensive items/set effects. Bloodspawn just happened to be the most efficient 2 item tank support.

These dudes get it.

Combine healing scaling off of damage with some of the broken sets in the game = broken game.

And nothing synergizes better with the brokenness than bloodspawn, so while the nerf doesn't adjust the brokenness atthe root, it should help make it less overbearing/prolific. Burst is the champ, losing so much mitigation from bloodspawn will make those builds much more vulnerable.

You don't have that mitigation against burst anyways. BS has a proc chance of 6%. If your enemy's burst is 3 direct attack, BS has a chance of only 17% to proc overall.

Kadoin

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Ghnami wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Very high weapon damage with high self healing.

Exactly this. The only way to stop the pvp tank meta is to remove healing scaling with weapon/spell damage. You know, like the game was intended to, like it was intended that damage was only damage and that resources wouldn't equate damage.

Ever since ZOS made damage scale with stam/mag and healing scale with weapons, the entire balance has gone down the drain because people will always be able to create a super tank build with minimal support from tank effects, by just having a ton of damage / resources and using defensive skills and like 1 or 2 defensive items/set effects. Bloodspawn just happened to be the most efficient 2 item tank support.

These dudes get it.

Combine healing scaling off of damage with some of the broken sets in the game = broken game.

And nothing synergizes better with the brokenness than bloodspawn, so while the nerf doesn't adjust the brokenness atthe root, it should help make it less overbearing/prolific. Burst is the champ, losing so much mitigation from bloodspawn will make those builds much more vulnerable.

You don't have that mitigation against burst anyways. BS has a proc chance of 6%. If your enemy's burst is 3 direct attack, BS has a chance of only 17% to proc overall.

And yet it's always on. If they will not nerf resistances and ulti gain, then the set would need a longer CD or stricter proc condition.

clocksstoppe

Kadoin wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Ghnami wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Very high weapon damage with high self healing.

Exactly this. The only way to stop the pvp tank meta is to remove healing scaling with weapon/spell damage. You know, like the game was intended to, like it was intended that damage was only damage and that resources wouldn't equate damage.

Ever since ZOS made damage scale with stam/mag and healing scale with weapons, the entire balance has gone down the drain because people will always be able to create a super tank build with minimal support from tank effects, by just having a ton of damage / resources and using defensive skills and like 1 or 2 defensive items/set effects. Bloodspawn just happened to be the most efficient 2 item tank support.

These dudes get it.

Combine healing scaling off of damage with some of the broken sets in the game = broken game.

And nothing synergizes better with the brokenness than bloodspawn, so while the nerf doesn't adjust the brokenness atthe root, it should help make it less overbearing/prolific. Burst is the champ, losing so much mitigation from bloodspawn will make those builds much more vulnerable.

You don't have that mitigation against burst anyways. BS has a proc chance of 6%. If your enemy's burst is 3 direct attack, BS has a chance of only 17% to proc overall.

And yet it's always on. If they will not nerf resistances and ulti gain, then the set would need a longer CD or stricter proc condition.

In the end, it's your choice to stack up the enemy's fury and other defensive proc sets, [Snip]

[Edited for bait]

D0PAMINE

Kadoin wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Ghnami wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Very high weapon damage with high self healing.

Exactly this. The only way to stop the pvp tank meta is to remove healing scaling with weapon/spell damage. You know, like the game was intended to, like it was intended that damage was only damage and that resources wouldn't equate damage.

Ever since ZOS made damage scale with stam/mag and healing scale with weapons, the entire balance has gone down the drain because people will always be able to create a super tank build with minimal support from tank effects, by just having a ton of damage / resources and using defensive skills and like 1 or 2 defensive items/set effects. Bloodspawn just happened to be the most efficient 2 item tank support.

These dudes get it.

Combine healing scaling off of damage with some of the broken sets in the game = broken game.

And nothing synergizes better with the brokenness than bloodspawn, so while the nerf doesn't adjust the brokenness atthe root, it should help make it less overbearing/prolific. Burst is the champ, losing so much mitigation from bloodspawn will make those builds much more vulnerable.

You don't have that mitigation against burst anyways. BS has a proc chance of 6%. If your enemy's burst is 3 direct attack, BS has a chance of only 17% to proc overall.

And yet it's always on. If they will not nerf resistances and ulti gain, then the set would need a longer CD or stricter proc condition.

1 item: Adds 1-129 Stamina Recovery
2 items: When you take damage, you have a 6% chance to generate 14 Ultimate and increase your Physical and Spell Resistance by 75-6450 for 6 seconds. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

The more people or NPC enemies you're fighting at the same time, as you take more hits you increase the proc chance. That 6% goes up.

DreadDaedroth

They won't reconsider the nerf because it'd be like admitting a mistake. Look what they did to Iceheart.

Bashev

The set is really strong. It was not called for nerfs because noob players do not understand how good it is. They dont see big damage from it and so on.

Now I will give you an example if we revert the defensive set to offensive set. Imagine there is a monster set that:
2 items: When you do damage, you have a 6% chance to generate 14 Ultimate and increase your Physical Resistance and Spell Penetration by 6450 for 6 seconds. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.

Do you know that everyone will scream: "Nerf it! Nerf it!"