Stuhn's Favor a bit much

Ruder

Just change the deam 5 piece to Ignore 35% of target physical and spell resistances....

Giljabrar

Ruder wrote: »

Just change the deam 5 piece to Ignore 35% of target physical and spell resistances....

That falls in line with a few of the suggestions made on the post. 30-35% pen overall seems like a reasonable place for a 5 piece with a proc condition (an easy proc condition for most).

Mortiis13

With the nerf to defensive sets and general healing nerf this set and the conditions of the set are over the top.

As I said before. Pair it with onslaught After off balance and the only counter is to run away for 12 sec. Then u have 15 sec to counter ;P

Giljabrar

Mortiis13 wrote: »

With the nerf to defensive sets and general healing nerf this set and the conditions of the set are over the top.

As I said before. Pair it with onslaught After off balance and the only counter is to run away for 12 sec. Then u have 15 sec to counter ;P

Onslaught is overkill for most setups, you'd be over pen on most targets. Might as well go berserker strike with it, and be unkillable while also obliterating others with ease.

Hell, a lot of people on PTS using a 2h sword instead of maul with it due to overpen for the extra 6% damage.

Ghnami

I hate d-swing, I hate d-swing, I hate d-swing, I hate d-swing, and *** your cliff racer too.
That's what this set means to me lol.
They need to make a set with critical penetration, THAT'S a tank killer. Oh nice impen, would be a shame if I---COMPLETELY IGNORED IT. Gain 3000 critical penetration against targets that have off balance on cooldown. Divines people won't care, impen light/medium builds will melt pretty good but probably less than if you ignored 100% of resistances. Heavy tank impregnable armor/impen builds will suffer HARD since you bypass their most useful mitigation which prevents burst from getting out of hand. While this won't line up with the CP passive, it's a delayed effect that requires an extended engagement, just like tanks love. The kicker is that by either waiting out or removing off balance, you take so much more burst. DD builds will either run away/stealth/etc. or try to burst you in off balance duration, whereas tanks would either run away or die. The condition being on off balance cooldown means it's an unpurgeable debuff, with a 13s duratiion, that' won't line up with silly stuff like d-swing stuns, heavy attack stuns, or even with skills that immediately set off balance, like cliff racer, templar charge, necro scythe.

I think crit pen is THE silver bullet for the tank meta. Don't want to get melted by it? Wear divines and kill them before they kill you. Still want a fantastic survivability in general? Wear impen. Want to beat the ever loving *** out of impen wearers and tanks alike? Use the crit pen set, but you have to learn the timing AND be able to survive to get to that point. Flat mitigation, potentates major/minor protection etc. has become more popular than resist stacking, so regular penetration will still have a maximum effectiveness that's overall, pretty low. up to 20% mitigation with all three active, which means with a max penetration build, you can still only deal at maximum 30% of your tooltip damage output against buffed players. However, if crits hit harder, only dealing 30% of a near-fully effective crit would be like doing closer to 50% tooltip damage, which was how pvp was supposed to be balanced in the first place, enough mitigation to be able to not get insta-bursted, but enough damage to be able to effectively kill players.

I think my big idea is we need a way to have unignorable delayed burst, more than saving 500 ult for balorgh, more than reduced healing, we need the ability to crit a tank for a fatty 22k meteor because they're a trash build and just hold block and stand wherever the *** they want. The two biggest pieces are having it unignorable so that there is literally no counterplay once it pops, and having it delayed so that there is counterplay and time to react before it happens.

JanTanhide

Run it with the Lover mundus! Penetration!

daemonor

Call me crazy but what if you use the new mist form? It's a toggle and if you're mag you can most definitely just flap around for the whole duration that this set is up. I mean you could mist away mid dizzy cast so you get offbalanced and medium attacked in the form already ant negate 75% of that damage.

Weren't they planning to remove the medium stun weave in this patch tho? Couldn't find any notes on that or was it tied to the la/heavy attack patch that didn't go thru?

nublife01

stuhn's favor is literally the worst designed set they have added to this game.

nublife01

off balance was never initially designed to be this depended upon in pvp combat.

Bucky_13

Maulkin wrote: »

Imagine a set that gave you 14k penetration for 10 seconds after going invis and all NBs had to do is Cloak once every 10 secs to keep 100% up-time, while everyone else would have to hit an invis pot every 45 secs. Would that be an ok set too?

As a nightblade, can we have that set please?

Davadin

ZonasArch wrote: »

For 7 seconds on a target, you'll be a BEAST and for 15 after that, you're gimping yourself off a 5 item set bonus..

that's an easy choice.

i wouldn't think twice to sacrifice a 5th-piece bonus for 15 sec if I can hit twice as hard for half that time.

PhoenixGrey

Stam has always been infinitely better than mag for PVP in this game. This set just widens the bridge further. This whole patch provides average or no offensive power to any mag toons as always.

Might as well enjoy this set while it lasts.

ZonasArch

Davadin wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

For 7 seconds on a target, you'll be a BEAST and for 15 after that, you're gimping yourself off a 5 item set bonus..

that's an easy choice.

i wouldn't think twice to sacrifice a 5th-piece bonus for 15 sec if I can hit twice as hard for half that time.

Except when your fights don't last just a few seconds. Which is mostly always. This is a GREAT set for gankers, who just pick lone targets. This is a set for the cheetah or the leopard, not for the wild dog or the lions. If you're in a group, if you're fighting big fights, if you're playing objectives, there are many other more balanced 5 bonus that will give you more advantages than this set here.

The problem is that it's really easy to see the big buff number, and not to so easy to realize how useless it'll be afterwards during CD. People are all thinking this is OP and it absolutely isn't. It's strong, definitely! But not OP, not with the long CD drawback.

Either way... They may still adjust it, both the buff and the CD. I think they should just so people don't feel off about it.

I'm just excited they are trying to actually bring tanks down in PvP, even if it would be much better if this was a simple percentage based.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

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Xvorg

Giljabrar wrote: »

Title says it all. This is the set I'm referencing.

Stuhn’s Favor
2 – Adds 129 Weapon Damage
2 – Adds 129 Spell Damage
3 – Adds 1487 Physical Penetration
3 – Adds 1487 Spell Penetration
4 – Adds 129 Weapon Damage
4 – Adds 129 Spell Damage
5 – Increases your Physical and Spell Penetration by 13355 against Off-Balance enemies.

While I love what the set does, and what it says to the meta, but it's a bit overturned. That is way too much penetration, even if it's tied to off balance.

I think the set should retain some of its strength, but a 25-35% nerf to the 5 piece seems within reason.

I've fought a few different classes with the setup on the PTS. Magplar, scary af. Stamcro, scary af. Mag/Stamblade, scary af.

You get hit with off balance, and you need to roll to stay alive. This is actually harder to fight than onslaught. At least then you had time between ultimates. But with this set as is, I think it's pretty unhealthy (at this state). I believe it should 100% retain strength and be an effective set. But I believe that can be accomplished at a lower threshold. Anybody in light armor is gonna be taking true damage, as well as most setups in general with the loss of armor to a lot of 1 piece monster sets.

Great set, love the concept. It's a bit much.

Anybody else have some experience either using or fighting this?

on a mDK, and combined with Livewire and storm blockade, it seems nice for powerlasing

Yiko

ZonasArch wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

For 7 seconds on a target, you'll be a BEAST and for 15 after that, you're gimping yourself off a 5 item set bonus..

that's an easy choice.

i wouldn't think twice to sacrifice a 5th-piece bonus for 15 sec if I can hit twice as hard for half that time.

Except when your fights don't last just a few seconds. Which is mostly always. This is a GREAT set for gankers, who just pick lone targets. This is a set for the cheetah or the leopard, not for the wild dog or the lions. If you're in a group, if you're fighting big fights, if you're playing objectives, there are many other more balanced 5 bonus that will give you more advantages than this set here.

The problem is that it's really easy to see the big buff number, and not to so easy to realize how useless it'll be afterwards during CD. People are all thinking this is OP and it absolutely isn't. It's strong, definitely! But not OP, not with the long CD drawback.

Either way... They may still adjust it, both the buff and the CD. I think they should just so people don't feel off about it.

I'm just excited they are trying to actually bring tanks down in PvP, even if it would be much better if this was a simple percentage based.

Please read the posts in the thread. You don't have to give up a 5 pc or Monster set to run it, and the buff isn't tied to just 1 target, so the uptime isn't necessarily ~33%. Also, it's not difficult in the slightest to set entire clusters of people off-balance on Mag builds, even without Tactician.

xaraan

Wonder how strong a WW would be with this and the new changes they've recieved, just throw on this set and New Moon and a monster head set, roar for off balance and just slash away without worrying about increased ability cost as you mostly just light and heavy attack.

Giljabrar

xaraan wrote: »

Wonder how strong a WW would be with this and the new changes they've recieved, just throw on this set and New Moon and a monster head set, roar for off balance and just slash away without worrying about increased ability cost as you mostly just light and heavy attack.

Oh ***, yeah that's actually gonna be nutty

Thevampirenight

Well people dieing a lot to this would help with performance. the issues with performance is that well fights are to dragged on to much healing and buff stacking ontop of one another and Fengrush was explaining this on his pts notes review video that the core of hte isssue was all the cross stuff and group size and the to many calculations allowed to go on because of the stacking like 15 of this heal ontop of one another and when groups are doing this it causes the issues in Cyrodiil.

My guess Zenimax might be trying a stop gag fix here. What they are doing is nerfing the tanky meta but also making sets and weapons to deal with group balls and other players so they would just die quicker and stuff like this set and earth gore would help with performance because it would likely hit those that are causing the worst of the lag the hardest. Negating would cancel out lag causing things possibly at times as well.

The Over penetration meta is meant to well make it so people actually die in Cyrodiil. So its possible that this could be what they are doing here and the reason why its overtuned. Its possible they will reduce it within the pts but its possible they won't and will allow it to go live that way some issues could be dealt with in Cyrodiil that are causing server problems hopefully. I think it would be for the best if that is the actual reasoning for this.

Giljabrar

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well people dieing a lot to this would help with performance. the issues with performance is that well fights are to dragged on to much healing and buff stacking ontop of one another and Fengrush was explaining this on his pts notes review video that the core of hte isssue was all the cross stuff and group size and the to many calculations allowed to go on because of the stacking like 15 of this heal ontop of one another and when groups are doing this it causes the issues in Cyrodiil.

My guess Zenimax might be trying a stop gag fix here. What they are doing is nerfing the tanky meta but also making sets and weapons to deal with group balls and other players so they would just die quicker and stuff like this set and earth gore would help with performance because it would likely hit those that are causing the worst of the lag the hardest. Negating would cancel out lag causing things possibly at times as well.

The Over penetration meta is meant to well make it so people actually die in Cyrodiil. So its possible that this could be what they are doing here and the reason why its overtuned. Its possible they will reduce it within the pts but its possible they won't and will allow it to go live that way some issues could be dealt with in Cyrodiil that are causing server problems hopefully. I think it would be for the best if that is the actual reasoning for this.

So instead of getting a functional game, they're just gonna make everyone (except for the actual issues in the meta, %damage reduction tanks) die.

If that makes you happy, and not outraged at the server performance, idk what to say

Thevampirenight

Giljabrar wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well people dieing a lot to this would help with performance. the issues with performance is that well fights are to dragged on to much healing and buff stacking ontop of one another and Fengrush was explaining this on his pts notes review video that the core of hte isssue was all the cross stuff and group size and the to many calculations allowed to go on because of the stacking like 15 of this heal ontop of one another and when groups are doing this it causes the issues in Cyrodiil.

My guess Zenimax might be trying a stop gag fix here. What they are doing is nerfing the tanky meta but also making sets and weapons to deal with group balls and other players so they would just die quicker and stuff like this set and earth gore would help with performance because it would likely hit those that are causing the worst of the lag the hardest. Negating would cancel out lag causing things possibly at times as well.

The Over penetration meta is meant to well make it so people actually die in Cyrodiil. So its possible that this could be what they are doing here and the reason why its overtuned. Its possible they will reduce it within the pts but its possible they won't and will allow it to go live that way some issues could be dealt with in Cyrodiil that are causing server problems hopefully. I think it would be for the best if that is the actual reasoning for this.

So instead of getting a functional game, they're just gonna make everyone (except for the actual issues in the meta, %damage reduction tanks) die.

If that makes you happy, and not outraged at the server performance, idk what to say

The thing is they need to deal with the actual issues, They need to one make it so things can't stack like they do in groups and cross play. They need to cause it so if one person casts a type of heal that stacks onto another persons healing thing that other persons healing thing gets canceled out and replaced by the person that casted it so what they need to do is make it so certain abilties cancel out the other persons effects.

Say one person is using a necro heal ability for a group another a warden heal another a templar. Necro heal buff heals group players, the wardens heal now cancels out the necromancers heal and the templars now cancel out the wardens. So they need to add in buff canceling effects that could help here because it would prevent the stacking that is going on. They need to put a full stop to it by doing something about it and this I think would be a solution.
Because they are stacking all these buffs and heals ontop ontop and ontop. What Zenimax needs to do is make sure those those get canceled out each time, that way Faction Stackers and Ball Groups do not lag out the servers and that is the root cause of it and it likely is stacking causing to many server calculations like Fengrush said.

So that needs to be fixed and that could be causing the bulk of the whole Cyrodiil performance issues or even the Entire Mega Server Issues and if they don't fix it, Cyrodiil performance might not improve and I do think Fengrush is right about that one.

Deathlord92

Personally my stamblade looking forward to getting his hands on stuhn’s favour 😈

Giljabrar

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Personally my stamblade looking forward to getting his hands on stuhn’s favour 😈

It's never going to make it live with it's current numbers.

JWillCHS

What's the trait requirement for the set?

Deathlord92

Giljabrar wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Personally my stamblade looking forward to getting his hands on stuhn’s favour 😈

It's never going to make it live with it's current numbers.

Stamcro did with a very hard hitting spammable major defile after that anything possible 🤣🤣🤣 then there’s snipe desync still going unchecked I hope it goes live a lot of us are very bored of tank meta and idiots running unkillable builds.

Giljabrar

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Personally my stamblade looking forward to getting his hands on stuhn’s favour 😈

It's never going to make it live with it's current numbers.

Stamcro did with a very hard hitting spammable major defile after that anything possible 🤣🤣🤣 then there’s snipe desync still going unchecked I hope it goes live a lot of us are very bored of tank meta and idiots running unkillable builds.

I don't know how many more times it needs to be brought up in this post.

The people who are the hardest to kill right now, rely on % damage reduction from Minor/Major protection, and potentates.

This set doesn't counter them. They counter it.

This set doesn't solve a problem. It creates them.

Make this set a tank killer, specifically catered to killing people with resistance caps, while at the same time, not making a set that kills everybody who isn't a super tank, in about 3 seconds tops.

[Snip]

[Edited for bait]

Hanokihs

Giljabrar wrote: »

It's never going to make it live with it's current numbers.

If Sloads could slip through the cracks to become the fiasco it did, so too can this. All you have to do is believe.

[Removed quote]

[Snip], it does sometimes seem like people only play en masse and get excited about the game when something comes along to supply massive cheese. This is especially true of PvP where curbstomping people is pretty fun, whether anyone wants to openly admit it or not. I wouldn't be surprised if they let this one ride a few weeks, along with the changes to Titanic Cleave, just to keep people hyped about Greymoor until things are inevitably nerfed back to normal.

[Edited for removed content]

Giljabrar

Hanokihs wrote: »

If Sloads could slip through the cracks to become the fiasco it did, so too can this. All you have to do is believe.

Literally why I'm trying to bring it to people's attention. We will still probably have a few PTS cycles before it goes live.

But given you are comparing it to sloads, you also agree that this set is way overturned no?

Tessitura

So I just addressed this issue else where, figured I would post here too. It is over tuned, after playing with it thats my conclusion. I know it's suppose to be a bunker buster it's going to be a staple in builds and has the power of a ult without the chance to miss or be dodged since you can spam abilities and eventually get the buff, or debuff.

I gave a suggestion, that it should be changed to a scaling rate based on the max resist the target has, or a flat percent of pen. The first option means that bunker builds suffer more then lighter ones and thus, it is a true bunker buster, and the second does that same but differently as 10% of 1000 is 100, and 10% of 100 is 10, thus lighter builds are not as deeply punished or out right stripped of their defenses. The percent option seems the most viable and easy to change.

Giljabrar

Tessitura wrote: »

So I just addressed this issue else where, figured I would post here too. It is over tuned, after playing with it thats my conclusion. I know it's suppose to be a bunker buster it's going to be a staple in builds and has the power of a ult without the chance to miss or be dodged since you can spam abilities and eventually get the buff, or debuff.

I gave a suggestion, that it should be changed to a scaling rate based on the max resist the target has, or a flat percent of pen. The first option means that bunker builds suffer more then lighter ones and thus, it is a true bunker buster, and the second does that same but differently as 10% of 1000 is 100, and 10% of 100 is 10, thus lighter builds are not as deeply punished or out right stripped of their defenses. The percent option seems the most viable and easy to change.

Quite a few others, myself included think something similar to this is the best route to make this a considerably healthier set.

I think the flat % option is best given the current climate of the server getting headaches over too many calculations.