Vampire Costs Are Actually Fine

Kidgangster101

Lughlongarm wrote: »

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

I agree. Seems balance to me. stage 4 vemp mist costs like nothing, even the toggle buff is manageable. This cannot co-exist without a strong penalty. stage 1 vemp setup can work for vemp skill dipping.

And what if you are stamina?

Going full stamina vamp(stage 4) this patch is like going magicka build on a WW. You can do it, but should you?
You have options if really want to.
Sets like Prisoner's Rags could be interesting with the sprint theme.
Redguard + Daring Corsair Set will reduce weapon skills by 20% - stamian use lots of weapon skills.

Just some initial ideas before I even started to theory craft around it.

The basic concept is that vaps will have to get used to the idea that this is no more a dipping spec. This something you need to build into in order to be effective. Kinda like what WW have been doing for years now.

Except we negates it's weakness by not being in ww form. And expect for the fact that just slotting the ultimate gives you 15% Regen....... Yep people don't go ww and slot that just for that bonus right?

RedReign

The costs are not fine, an entire skill line just for tanks? You knew that wasn't the intention when you wrote that OP. It's overkill, plain and simple.

Kilcosu

Lughlongarm wrote: »

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

I agree. Seems balance to me. stage 4 vemp mist costs like nothing, even the toggle buff is manageable. This cannot co-exist without a strong penalty. stage 1 vemp setup can work for vemp skill dipping.

And what if you are stamina?

Going full stamina vamp(stage 4) this patch is like going magicka build on a WW. You can do it, but should you?
You have options if really want to.
Sets like Prisoner's Rags could be interesting with the sprint theme.
Redguard + Daring Corsair Set will reduce weapon skills by 20% - stamian use lots of weapon skills.

Just some initial ideas before I even started to theory craft around it.

The basic concept is that vaps will have to get used to the idea that this is no more a dipping spec. This something you need to build into in order to be effective. Kinda like what WW have been doing for years now.

Except with the current updates WW doesn't have this sort of massive deficit to deal with.

Losing access to all class skills and passives is more of a deficit than having a cost increase of 20%. The vamp is much more flexible you can chose how far you want to go. Many builds will just go for the stage one or stage 2, and will use mist only exactly like they do now. Other will go deeper but will have to adjust accordingly.

werewolves also have to constantly deal with a baseline 25% percent increase to all 5 skills they have. werewolves also have to deal with a single use heal that costs over 5k magicka on a stamina build.

stage 4 magicka vampire has access to a spammable that's costs 1k magicka and a toggle for up to 1200 extra spell damage and 8 other skills with 2 ultimate options.

vampire isn't about 2 passives and slot a skin. you have to actually build into it for greater success. I'm glad some people are realizing this and getting behind it

RedReign

Kilcosu wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

I agree. Seems balance to me. stage 4 vemp mist costs like nothing, even the toggle buff is manageable. This cannot co-exist without a strong penalty. stage 1 vemp setup can work for vemp skill dipping.

And what if you are stamina?

Going full stamina vamp(stage 4) this patch is like going magicka build on a WW. You can do it, but should you?
You have options if really want to.
Sets like Prisoner's Rags could be interesting with the sprint theme.
Redguard + Daring Corsair Set will reduce weapon skills by 20% - stamian use lots of weapon skills.

Just some initial ideas before I even started to theory craft around it.

The basic concept is that vaps will have to get used to the idea that this is no more a dipping spec. This something you need to build into in order to be effective. Kinda like what WW have been doing for years now.

Except with the current updates WW doesn't have this sort of massive deficit to deal with.

Losing access to all class skills and passives is more of a deficit than having a cost increase of 20%. The vamp is much more flexible you can chose how far you want to go. Many builds will just go for the stage one or stage 2, and will use mist only exactly like they do now. Other will go deeper but will have to adjust accordingly.

werewolves also have to constantly deal with a baseline 25% percent increase to all 5 skills they have. werewolves also have to deal with a single use heal that costs over 5k magicka on a stamina build.

stage 4 magicka vampire has access to a spammable that's costs 1k magicka and a toggle for up to 1200 extra spell damage and 8 other skills with 2 ultimate options.

vampire isn't about 2 passives and slot a skin. you have to actually build into it for greater success. I'm glad some people are realizing this and getting behind it

You're only glad people are getting behind it because you think it validates your opinion. Having to build an entire class around 5 skills with only 1 damage ability is not a good thing.

Opalblade

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Opalblade wrote: »

I heard in another thread that the cost increase effects blocking too. If that's true, it might not be all that great for tanks either.

I’ve tested it on my tank and had no issues at stage 1. I only will use stage 4 for when I want to deal damage for questing (not tanking). I don’t have to use light armor toget cheap magicka abilities. Blood Frenzy brings my spell damage up to respectable levels and i can easily maintain it with my tank hp pool. Bonus points for being a necro that can bypass some of the penalties with Reusable Parts and the zero cost tether spells.

I play a tank 90% of the time, and questing has never been an issue for me even with my low dps. Making easy content even easier isn't that much of a bonus.

Dracane

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Strange. I have the same amount of ultimate reduction as you and it's 137 for me still.

wheem_ESO

Dracane wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Strange. I have the same amount of ultimate reduction as you and it's 137 for me still.

Is your skill rank 4? Some things end up with slightly lower cost as they rank up (not sure about the Vampire Lord form).

Raudgrani

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Caelc wrote: »

so how are you going to use things like wall on your back bar when it costs 5k, or cures.

The problem is, what the costs do is basically make you fill your bar with skills that just give you stats and never use them.

I understand what they are trying to do but as usually, they failed miserably. level 1 should be a small cost, maybe the 5 percent, but as you level up to 4, imo it should disappear.

You are still trying to use a traditional dps setup with vampirism - that no longer works. People use New Moon and can handle a 5% increase just fine. Stage 1 is no different than using New Moon, except instead of some stats you get an entire skill line of skills that could be used if you wanted. Reread the vampire skills - most of them cater to builds with high hp pools (tanks).

Switching 10% extra recovery for 5% extra cost increase, seems like a pretty bad upgrade. This thoroughly sucks. I have quite a number or vampires, all of them for recovery alone; a couple of tanks for extra resistance too of course - but at large. Don't even know, but I think I have like 11 vampires or so, I don't plan to keep it on one single character if this all goes through. Maybe on a magcro and magblade, because they are pretty useless anyway.

Can see my current vamp tank that has a health recovery or like 1100 at stage 4, will have a recovery under 300. I can't understand how someone being a tank thinks this is great. The heal? Why are people on about that? You have had a similar drain skill for ages, it's just you can't use it when you really need it - because you can't block cast it.

ElliottXO

Raudgrani wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Caelc wrote: »

so how are you going to use things like wall on your back bar when it costs 5k, or cures.

The problem is, what the costs do is basically make you fill your bar with skills that just give you stats and never use them.

I understand what they are trying to do but as usually, they failed miserably. level 1 should be a small cost, maybe the 5 percent, but as you level up to 4, imo it should disappear.

You are still trying to use a traditional dps setup with vampirism - that no longer works. People use New Moon and can handle a 5% increase just fine. Stage 1 is no different than using New Moon, except instead of some stats you get an entire skill line of skills that could be used if you wanted. Reread the vampire skills - most of them cater to builds with high hp pools (tanks).

Switching 10% extra recovery for 5% extra cost increase, seems like a pretty bad upgrade. This thoroughly sucks. I have quite a number or vampires, all of them for recovery alone; a couple of tanks for extra resistance too of course - but at large. Don't even know, but I think I have like 11 vampires or so, I don't plan to keep it on one single character if this all goes through. Maybe on a magcro and magblade, because they are pretty useless anyway.

Can see my current vamp tank that has a health recovery or like 1100 at stage 4, will have a recovery under 300. I can't understand how someone being a tank thinks this is great. The heal? Why are people on about that? You have had a similar drain skill for ages, it's just you can't use it when you really need it - because you can't block cast it.

This exactly is the problem, don't you see that? You slap vampire on any class, because it's the best thing to do.

So basically you are saying that people get punished for not being vampire as of now, but that is totally ok?

Vevvev

RedReign wrote: »

You're only glad people are getting behind it because you think it validates your opinion. Having to build an entire class around 5 skills with only 1 damage ability is not a good thing.

^ This

Even werewolves have access to class, weapon, guild, and other forms of skills before they enter werewolf form. If anything they enhance the werewolf play style as a way to kill and deal with enemies until they realize they need the werewolf form. Werewolf can be summed up as a customizable ultimate that's capable of lasting a long time, and can be toggled off in a fight should the there be a demand to. ((I.E. taking lots of poison damage or need to use stamina heals.)) While its slotted on a bar that bar constantly gives 15% stamina regeneration at no penalties to the user.