Congratulations ZOS, you just made vMA completely obsolete.

Nairinhe

SavageChain wrote: »

People now can complain, that actually getting BIS gear will be easy as ***, meanwhile they once worked for it. In greymoor every noob gets BIS gear without any effort, since normal arenas are a piece of cake. Up to now it was at least somewhat hard to get good gear. ZOS obviously caters to the noobs and people who do not like to work for something.

- BIS gear available pretty much for everyone
- Bash weaving gutted to close the gap between noobs and the hardcore dds, who actually managed to include bashing into their rotation
- Healing reduction in PvP meaning solo and small scale is less viable

It is just sad how stupidly easy ZOS wants to make the game for new and unskilled players and how veteran playeres get treated.

950CP noob here: I'm just so happy that I can run VMA for the challenge and not for gear because, y'know, RNGeesus isn't kind

Also closing the gap between noobs and "elite" is necessary, otherwise it will be impossible to balance content so that it's accessible to everyone

FirmamentOfStars

Nairinhe wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

People now can complain, that actually getting BIS gear will be easy as ***, meanwhile they once worked for it. In greymoor every noob gets BIS gear without any effort, since normal arenas are a piece of cake. Up to now it was at least somewhat hard to get good gear. ZOS obviously caters to the noobs and people who do not like to work for something.

- BIS gear available pretty much for everyone
- Bash weaving gutted to close the gap between noobs and the hardcore dds, who actually managed to include bashing into their rotation
- Healing reduction in PvP meaning solo and small scale is less viable

It is just sad how stupidly easy ZOS wants to make the game for new and unskilled players and how veteran playeres get treated.

950CP noob here: I'm just so happy that I can run VMA for the challenge and not for gear because, y'know, RNGeesus isn't kind

Also closing the gap between noobs and "elite" is necessary, otherwise it will be impossible to balance content so that it's accessible to everyone

I am cp650, can complete vMSA with flawless in 40 mins. It is not that difficult, neither am I an elitist. nMSA is a piece of cake and people went in right after the introduction quest without cps and gear to show how easy it is.

The thing about this is that BIS gear will be too easy to acquire, new players will not even try doing vMSA, because it will not be worth to spend so much more time and effort for bonus stats, that are as insignificant as the pts perfect versions. Additionally its just a clap to the face for everyone who spent time farming it.

About your statement about content needs to be available to everybody:
The content is already avalaible to you. If you are not good enough to do it, then there is some motivation to actually get better to accomplish something. Handing those weapons to everybody does not motivate the players to go for harder content not does it motivate the player to actually learn the game. Closing the gap to some extent is not bad, but also not necessary. The elitists and pros are pros, because they spent thousand of hours in this game and learned the mechanics to push the best dps possible and master the content. They should have a vast knowledge and therefore there should be a big gap between them a new players. But the recent teesting of new light and heavy attacks, the bash damage now totally gutted and handing out BIS gear to everyone is just stupidly trying to bring up noobs towards the pro level, without any justification. If I would have spent as much time as Alcast or Liko in this game, I actually want to be accordingly better than a noob, who just slaps on BIS gear, which gets thrown at them. Also the PvP content was made more and more difficult for the solo and small scalers over the years and again, the changes to battlespirit mostly hurts them and makes it easier for new players to feel strong without learning the game.

This is a *** philosophy to hand out everything to your new players and *** on veterans again and again. There is no motivation for new players anymore to actually become good meanwhile veterans see their time spent learning and working hard becoming devalued all the time. This is in no way a healthy way to deal with your customer.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Isnt it the same as the whiterose weapon ?
I mean the backbar part

FrancisCrawford

Kurat wrote: »

And ppl were crying in last few days about having to re grind vMA. Lmfao
What a joke. 100 wep dmg or some extra spell pen on back bar.
If anyone still wants to quit over this, can I have your stuff?

No, you can't, because their stuff is bound.

James-Wayne

SavageChain wrote: »

People now can complain, that actually getting BIS gear will be easy as ***, meanwhile they once worked for it. In greymoor every noob gets BIS gear without any effort, since normal arenas are a piece of cake. Up to now it was at least somewhat hard to get good gear. ZOS obviously caters to the noobs and people who do not like to work for something.

- BIS gear available pretty much for everyone
- Bash weaving gutted to close the gap between noobs and the hardcore dds, who actually managed to include bashing into their rotation
- Healing reduction in PvP meaning solo and small scale is less viable

It is just sad how stupidly easy ZOS wants to make the game for new and unskilled players and how veteran playeres get treated.

Casuals getting this gear wont make them any better because most of them don't light attack weave so they wont be doing top tier damage anyway but they will at least be a little closer to top tier (little) hence the whole raise the floor, lower the ceiling changes that are happening, this is one of those changes

FirmamentOfStars

James-Wayne wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

People now can complain, that actually getting BIS gear will be easy as ***, meanwhile they once worked for it. In greymoor every noob gets BIS gear without any effort, since normal arenas are a piece of cake. Up to now it was at least somewhat hard to get good gear. ZOS obviously caters to the noobs and people who do not like to work for something.

- BIS gear available pretty much for everyone
- Bash weaving gutted to close the gap between noobs and the hardcore dds, who actually managed to include bashing into their rotation
- Healing reduction in PvP meaning solo and small scale is less viable

It is just sad how stupidly easy ZOS wants to make the game for new and unskilled players and how veteran playeres get treated.

Casuals getting this gear wont make them any better because most of them don't light attack weave so they wont be doing top tier damage anyway but they will at least be a little closer to top tier (little) hence the whole raise the floor, lower the ceiling changes that are happening, this is one of those changes

Totally depends in the casuals. Some of the spam light attacks. A msa destro will be a nice addition to their setup.
Also most other weapons now grant straight damage buffs, so it doesnt matter if they light attack weave or not.

kojou

On the one hand allowing newer players to get their gear is a good thing. I am actually happy with this part of the change.

The part that is a bit of a kick in the nuts is making the weapons we earned on Vet the same as those earned on
normal. I think all weapons we earned previously should be converted to perfect versions even if the difference is mostly superficial.

As it is the difference for the perfected version is not enough that I will even bother to run VMA again outside the Orsinium event.

P.S. I am really not happy with how the perfect Asylum staff was treated. They made something that had a purpose on some builds into junk.

karekiz

[snip] Im forced to Grind VMA [snip] Im not forced to grind VMA enough

[edited for non-constructive language]

Shantu

Though I don't mind running vMA now and then, nothing about the perfected weapons makes me feel they're worth going through that horrific RGN grind again. Another head shaking decision all around.

AinSoph

It's funny how the most used weapons there (bow/destro) are essentially used in back-bar only so the perfected really contributes very little overall bc those bonuses don't carry over. The perfected ones are just basically flexes now.

John_Falstaff

Aside from the obvious slap in the face - which it is, not upgrading vMA drops to what they are, vMA drops - It's curious that they're letting stuff acquired in normal to be BiS in most content. I'm not saying there are no similar cases already (Mother's Sorrow is an overland set), but it's getting more hilarious by the day, so it'll be funny to see every guide to backbar a destro you get by sleepwalking through nMA. I begin to suspect that by the end of the PTS it will be nerfed to uselenessness.

Hooded_1

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Aside from the obvious slap in the face - which it is, not upgrading vMA drops to what they are, vMA drops - It's curious that they're letting stuff acquired in normal to be BiS in most content. I'm not saying there are no similar cases already (Mother's Sorrow is an overland set), but it's getting more hilarious by the day, so it'll be funny to see every guide to backbar a destro you get by sleepwalking through nMA. I begin to suspect that by the end of the PTS it will be nerfed to uselenessness.

I believe the case of Mother’s Sorrow was an unintentional side effect; I remember back in Summerset when BiS magicka DPS sets were Siroria and Spell Strat, until people figured out that crit rating scales better in trials.

Veinblood1965

Just to clarify the normal MA and the VMA weapons are the same?

That does suck if true, you should at least get something better for doing VMA even if it's not weapons, maybe transmute stones or two drops instead of one.

WrathOfInnos

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Just to clarify the normal MA and the VMA weapons are the same?

That does suck if true, you should at least get something better for doing VMA even if it's not weapons, maybe transmute stones or two drops instead of one.

@Veinblood1965 The new vet ones have an additional bonus, but these bonuses are not even a standard small set bonus. Additionally the chosen stat for the Perfected version is questionable, especially on the Maelstrom Destruction Staff since it will not affect damage at all.

luen79rwb17_ESO

OMG why... whyyyy?! Who's behind these awful decision making ideas? It's a backbar weapon for "today's standards" (in dev language) why spell pen over anything else? What's the logic behind this???

Being hopeful to at least get the old spell dmg bonus was definately asking too much...

Hooded_1

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Just to clarify the normal MA and the VMA weapons are the same?

That does suck if true, you should at least get something better for doing VMA even if it's not weapons, maybe transmute stones or two drops instead of one.

They are different, they have a 1-piece bonus to them but the 1-piece is useless because if you’re utilizing these weapons properly, you’re only staying on that bar for 15-20% of the time, which results in an insignificant to the point of not being noticed increase in DPS. And transmute crystals drop anyway. Doesn’t make it worth running if you’re already set up with the correct traits.

@Veinblood1965

WrathOfInnos

Hooded_1 wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Just to clarify the normal MA and the VMA weapons are the same?

That does suck if true, you should at least get something better for doing VMA even if it's not weapons, maybe transmute stones or two drops instead of one.

They are different, they have a 1-piece bonus to them but the 1-piece is useless because if you’re utilizing these weapons properly, you’re only staying on that bar for 15-20% of the time, which results in an insignificant to the point of not being noticed increase in DPS. And transmute crystals drop anyway. Doesn’t make it worth running if you’re already set up with the correct traits.

@Veinblood1965

The fact that it only applies while on that bar is fine and expected. It would have been less than 1% DPS gain if the Maelstrom Staff had received 129 or 189 Spell Damage as it’s perfected bonus. Nobody would be required to farm it since it’s a minor DPS gain, but min-maxers would have a reason to, and there would technically be a difference between the normal and vet version. With Spell Pen as the bonus, we will literally have the exact same DPS with the normal or vet Maelstrom Staff.

Now to throw out an opinion, I actually think it would be nice if the Maelstrom Staff had 1096 Max Magicka as it’s bonus (or maybe go as high as 1644). This would be even less impactful for DPS than Spell Damage, but still far superior to Spell Pen. The nice thing about Max Magicka back bar is that it would reduce “resource bounce” when bar swapping. Several front bar sets (like Perf Siroria) or skill passives (Iike Inner Light) give more Max Magicka on the front bar, which means that every time you go from back bar to front bar your Magicka bar shows a slightly empty for a few seconds until you regen (since you couldn’t have 40k magicka while on a 38k max magicka back bar for example). This stat as the Perfected bonus would be more of a convenience thing than a damage buff, but I’d personally be willing to do some more vMA for back bar Max Magicka.

Lisutaris

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Just to clarify the normal MA and the VMA weapons are the same?

That does suck if true, you should at least get something better for doing VMA even if it's not weapons, maybe transmute stones or two drops instead of one.

@Veinblood1965 The new vet ones have an additional bonus, but these bonuses are not even a standard small set bonus. Additionally the chosen stat for the Perfected version is questionable, especially on the Maelstrom Destruction Staff since it will not affect damage at all.

Shows that they are sooo out of touch with the game and community, fully agree.
Still a ****move to not convert the old wepaons to perfect ones ...

Ylikollikas

1190 penetration for all 2h perfected arena weapons is important for PvP where penetration is actually useful and many want to run those weapons on front bar. I find it funny that perfected versions of these weapons are most important for PvP players; people who definitely don't want to do arena content.

Hooded_1

After looking at PTS testing videos I may have over reached with this post. There are people who have said that it’s no increase in DPS, and there’s people who have said that it’s a small increase in DPS, which the min-maxxers will want to go for. I’ll actually have to go on the PTS when I get a chance to actually test and see what’s what

Danksta

Ylikollikas wrote: »

1190 penetration for all 2h perfected arena weapons is important for PvP where penetration is actually useful and many want to run those weapons on front bar. I find it funny that perfected versions of these weapons are most important for PvP players; people who definitely don't want to do arena content.

Problem with that thinking is that penetration seems it'll be easy to come by next patch and resistances harder to come by. No one in their right mind will be front barring vma staff in PvP, they'll use master destro if they're going to use an arena weapon.

Ylikollikas

Danksta wrote: »

Ylikollikas wrote: »

1190 penetration for all 2h perfected arena weapons is important for PvP where penetration is actually useful and many want to run those weapons on front bar. I find it funny that perfected versions of these weapons are most important for PvP players; people who definitely don't want to do arena content.

Problem with that thinking is that penetration seems it'll be easy to come by next patch and resistances harder to come by. No one in their right mind will be front barring vma staff in PvP, they'll use master destro if they're going to use an arena weapon.

Penetration is always useful in PvP; it is very rare that you overpenetrate your opponent in PvP, even if resistances are harder to come by. Even onslaught users don't have their ult up all the time. Also, yes some arena weapons are useless for PvP, while some are useful. Regardless there will be more veteran arena grinding sessions for PvP players who don't want to do them but want weapons like perfected maelstrom 2h.

heaven13

Certainly seems like players that earned a vMA weapon don't matter to the devs.

In case anyone hasn't seen in; @T3hasiangod did a legit comparison on PTS between the normal and perfected version. Informative video that sticks to the facts but basically confirms what we've all been saying: Absolutely NOT worth farming for perfected in its current state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF2WnQoGjpE