Feedback from a Developer

Woeler

This thread is a gift that just keeps on giving.

Primeevi1

This is a good read before natch potes

Amunari

Tigerseye wrote: »

Amunari wrote: »

I have been in eso for about two weeks, though i dont think that really matters but i am sure you will throw some stupid argument like "you havent played long enough to understand" even though i am multi-rank 1 world experienced raider, and pvp in multiple mmo's. Go a head though throw out some stupid line like that, i'll just laugh at it and still keep up with posting my opinions about how the game should be improved.

What you did/do in other MMOs is irrelevant, in this context.

People are only querying how long you have played this particular game because you have made it obvious you are unaware of certain things that you can only learn over time, here.

Lol at this, had to throw it in there here is my laugh at it. "your a noob" is no argument, its an ad-hom attack, by the way which in no way validates your position.

Tigerseye wrote: »

I think it is totally fine to say; "Coming from WoW and other MMOs, I found I couldn't understand the following things. Please can you change them to be more understandable/intuitive to new players?".

The problem is, you're not just doing that.

You're also invoking your alleged dev status and (in some cases) trying to change things in ways that we already know they can't/won't do and/or in ways that won't work due to other known reasons and/or that will invalidate other people's effort and/or (in some cases) their purchases.

That is the issue here.

Not that new players shouldn't be able to say what their first impressions of the game were and ask for changes/additions, because they absolutely should feel free to do that.

I'm fine with you asking for them to add text to things, for example.

Although i do find it somewhat surprising that a dev wouldn't think to hover over icons, as that is a fairly common thing to have to do online, in general.

Your kidding right? Do i need to go back and quote myself? I was very clear that new players, from other mmos or not have had issues understanding how to sell things because of the bad UI design of trading.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Please do another "Armchair Developer" segment on the next ESO Live!
It has been too long and I think we could use one after reading this thread! Lol..

For those that miss it, linked here. Starts at 1:10:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BhsqvscZz4&t=4104s

Thank you! Have a great Monday! Huzzah!!

Shievarei

what did you develop

Nairinhe

Amunari wrote: »

Raammzzaa wrote: »

I would have thought that a professional developer in the gaming industry wanting to convey professional feedback would have done so through another channel. Creating a new, anonymous (unless perhaps you connected you registered with your work email?), titling a new thread "Feedback from a Developer" on the forum and posting a list of what you would like changed in the game doesn't really seem like the best avenue for having your feedback taken seriously by the developers.

I post on the forums to understand the mindset of you trolls, and with some hope (how ever small it is) tailor it for my submission to the development team directly. it's not my intent to upset the community, its my intent to make the game better and fix problems.

That being said, when people come at me like "i am a player and my opinion means equal or more to you", i just smile and say "ok kid, what ever you say".

As a long-time player and even longer-time developer: yes, when it comes to feedback, opinion of an experienced player regardless of his profession is much more valuable than that of a noob who happens to be a dev somewhere and get all butthurt when someone doesn't recognize their 'authority'

Shantu

You lost me at - Remove Champion Point System.

SilverIce58

Amunari wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Amunari wrote: »

I have been in eso for about two weeks, though i dont think that really matters but i am sure you will throw some stupid argument like "you havent played long enough to understand" even though i am multi-rank 1 world experienced raider, and pvp in multiple mmo's. Go a head though throw out some stupid line like that, i'll just laugh at it and still keep up with posting my opinions about how the game should be improved.

What you did/do in other MMOs is irrelevant, in this context.

People are only querying how long you have played this particular game because you have made it obvious you are unaware of certain things that you can only learn over time, here.

Lol at this, had to throw it in there here is my laugh at it. "your a noob" is no argument, its an ad-hom attack, by the way which in no way validates your position.

Tigerseye wrote: »

I think it is totally fine to say; "Coming from WoW and other MMOs, I found I couldn't understand the following things. Please can you change them to be more understandable/intuitive to new players?".

The problem is, you're not just doing that.

You're also invoking your alleged dev status and (in some cases) trying to change things in ways that we already know they can't/won't do and/or in ways that won't work due to other known reasons and/or that will invalidate other people's effort and/or (in some cases) their purchases.

That is the issue here.

Not that new players shouldn't be able to say what their first impressions of the game were and ask for changes/additions, because they absolutely should feel free to do that.

I'm fine with you asking for them to add text to things, for example.

Although i do find it somewhat surprising that a dev wouldn't think to hover over icons, as that is a fairly common thing to have to do online, in general.

Your kidding right? Do i need to go back and quote myself? I was very clear that new players, from other mmos or not have had issues understanding how to sell things because of the bad UI design of trading.

There's nothing wrong with how selling works. I literally explained it to a new guildie the other day in under 5 minutes. When I first started selling, I picked it up pretty quickly as it's literally just "join a guild with a guild trader, sell things by choosing view guild trader from any banker around the world, put them up for sale." Done and done. A rough explanation that should help you.

TequilaFire

You may want to consider that ESO has a high average age group and players come from all professions and backgrounds as well.
Making suggestions is just fine but the condescending attitude will get you nowhere.

edit - Missing preposition.

Amunari

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Please do another "Armchair Developer" segment on the next ESO Live!
It has been too long and I think we could use one after reading this thread! Lol..

For those that miss it, linked here. Starts at 1:10:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BhsqvscZz4&t=4104s

Thank you! Have a great Monday! Huzzah!!

Watching it now, this should be great;)

Cheers fellow dev buddies.

MusCanus

Amunari wrote: »

I was very clear that new players, from other mmos or not have had issues understanding how to sell things.

The ones on the left side of the IQ bell curve? That's understandable.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Amunari wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Please do another "Armchair Developer" segment on the next ESO Live!
It has been too long and I think we could use one after reading this thread! Lol..

For those that miss it, linked here. Starts at 1:10:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BhsqvscZz4&t=4104s

Thank you! Have a great Monday! Huzzah!!

Watching it now, this should be great;)

Cheers fellow dev buddies.

Great episode. Explained why we don't / won't have underwater/flying in ESO.
But will agree, a condescending attitude will not get you far here, with devs or anyone else. Just a suggestion.

Mancombe_Nosehair

It's like watching a train crash in slow motion.

Mancombe_Nosehair

Oh this just gets better and better! What next are you going to compare?

worrallj

What are you a developer of and how did that experience inform these recommendations?

Don't mean to be rude but my first reaction is "no" on pretty much every suggestion. Seems like it's mostly trying to mimic other MMOs out there, and I like the ESO system. Also since they're all game design choices not IT related, I don't see what being a Dev has to do with it.

Mancombe_Nosehair

I'd suggest stopping, but this is hugely entertaining.

SilverIce58

Amunari wrote: »

MusCanus wrote: »

Amunari wrote: »

I was very clear that new players, from other mmos or not have had issues understanding how to sell things.

The ones on the left side of the IQ bell curve? That's understandable.

Coming from the orc....

BTW, i have a 136 IQ, How about you?

So because that's your IQ, it means you're better than us? No it doesn't. Sit down. You're not better than anybody here bc you're a dev or because of your IQ. That's such a pompous attitude thinking you're better than anyone because of some numbers.

vestahls

They couldn't have paid for a better thread pre-natch potes. Now anything Gina posts is guaranteed to look wonderful.

Darkenarlol

thanks for lulz "136 iq developer"

this is definetly one of the most lunatic threads this year

Amunari

worrallj wrote: »

What are you a developer of and how did that experience inform these recommendations?

Don't mean to be rude but my first reaction is "no" on pretty much every suggestion. Seems like it's mostly trying to mimic other MMOs out there, and I like the ESO system. Also since they're all game design choices not IT related, I don't see what being a Dev has to do with it.

Hello Worrallj, Welcome to the conversation.

I am not attempting to make ESO into WoW. I am making suggestions to correct problems in eso. Champion points are abusive because they add a large amount of instability (power creep) to the game, as well as potentially influence the performance of the game.

Many of the other corrections were to fix problems in a similar capacity. if you would like to talk to about them let me know what one you'd like to chat about specific.

Amunari

vestahls wrote: »

They couldn't have paid for a better thread pre-natch potes. Now anything Gina posts is guaranteed to look wonderful.

Lol

Mancombe_Nosehair

Would you like a shovel to dig yourself a bigger hole?

SilverIce58

Amunari wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Amunari wrote: »

MusCanus wrote: »

Amunari wrote: »

I was very clear that new players, from other mmos or not have had issues understanding how to sell things.

The ones on the left side of the IQ bell curve? That's understandable.

Coming from the orc....

BTW, i have a 136 IQ, How about you?

So because that's your IQ, it means you're better than us? No it doesn't. Sit down. You're not better than anybody here bc you're a dev or because of your IQ. That's such a pompous attitude thinking you're better than anyone because of some numbers.

No, it means i am smarter then you

So? Nobody, and I absolutely mean NOBODY cares about your IQ. I could say that my IQ is 137. Where's the proof? You have none.

Tigerseye

VividMind wrote: »

LOL! this clown says he's from beta

Think he was quoting someone else there.

He's bolding stuff, rather than putting it in quotes, as developers don't know how to do that, or how icons work, apparently.

Cronopoly

Amunari wrote: »

snip

Mastery Class Cost
Amunari, as a Developer, how would you scope the financial cost and justification of the rework "IF" Zos decided to undertake suck a Mastery redesign of the character ability system? Management would have to greenlight an undertaking like this as proposed.

Darkenarlol

in places where i'm from people says that when someone start bragging

by their IQ numbers it only means that the person don't have any arguments left

but cannot brag by the size of his...let's say body part... due to insufficient and unimpressive numbers

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Tigerseye wrote: »

VividMind wrote: »

LOL! this clown says he's from beta

Think he was quoting someone else there.

He's bolding stuff, rather than putting it in quotes, as developers don't know how to do that, or how icons work, apparently.

That was me he mistaken for. OP said they have played 2 weeks.

Mancombe_Nosehair

My goodness this thread is hilarious.

Amunari

Cronopoly wrote: »

Amunari wrote: »

snip

Mastery Class Cost
Amunari, as a Developer, how would you scope the financial cost and justification of the rework "IF" Zos decided to undertake suck a Mastery redesign of the character ability system? Management would have to greenlight an undertaking like this as proposed.

Most of the current system is in place so development resources for such a design pass should not be to significant. You would use the current class specialization system (example: "warden" is a "class", and "animal companions" is a "specialization"). Due to the fact that the framework is pretty much already there most of the work will be down to conceptualizing and iterating new specializations (or more depending on development resources) and abilities and animations. The CP system should be able to be commented out from there and respectively removed from the gui.

It is not an insanely light project, but in terms of a design pass its fairly light.

Lastly, this has marketing power behind it, as the "masteries" could be marketed as a sales point. For example in greymoor you could "unlock masteries" if subscribed or as part of the bought expansion. It should be mentioned to be very careful with such idea's however, if these specializations seem to be to good (aka over tuned) they could be viewed as "pay to win". The downfall to this however is that the team will have more upkeep on class balance later. That is really for the principle designer or game director to decide if its something to pass up to management as an option.

I am sure you know how difficult it is to Gage the cost of a project, and since i do not have access to your code or engine it would be extremely foolish to guess all of that with numbers.

Animations for new spells assuming there are a total of 5 classes, with 5 abilities would be in the area of 25 total base animations, and the mecanim states (transitions). Animations can take an hour or so to do, so your looking at around 30 + 20% standard, maybe 40-50 hours of work (minimum) by the animation guys for the abilities alone.

Its probably something like that to put all the rest of the skills in place in code and rip out the cp, and depending on your UI guys, its probably around a week-ish to do the GUI changes (depending) though i'd expect maybe less. So your looking at a patch, probably done in say three months, from start to finish through testing. Though i'd imagine asking that question in that way you'd know exactly what was required for it (and i gather this is more a "test" of some kind).

MusCanus

Amunari wrote: »

Champion points are abusive because they add a large amount of instability (power creep) to the game, as well as potentially influence the performance of the game.

A lot of people have got that already. That's great your brain power allows you to get that as well. Kudos. Your suggestions how to address that are still bad. I recommend playing the game some more.The same recommendations the the actual devs.