They are not going through with the Light attack, Heavy Attack Changes with Greymoor.

Suligost

Good, clap clap

Irfind

So No

- scaling light and heavy attacks with your highest resource ( no 2H for my MagDK , no daggers for my Magblade)
- removal of the move speed penalty of heavy attacks for staffs and bows
- Reduced channel time for destruction staff and bows

Thx to all the whiners

Jaimeh

Thank the divines!!! I didn't like the changes, and I'm happy I can still play in the fast-paced way I like and have practised in for a long time. However, I do hope they can find another way to breach the skill gap, because that will be healthier for the game as a whole. Hopefully one that doesn't say 'your effort is wasted', and one that helps players by essentially teaching them. I think the problem is not just the APM, weaving, etc., it's not like good players have learned that overnight, and have not spent countless hours in target dummies and in live instances; it's that the tutorial the game offers to new players does very little in preparing them for the game. Combined with the fact that the content is vast, a casual player will probably forget the tutorial pretty fast while tackling with all new things like crafting, questing, the events, etc., and when it's time to kill something more difficult than an overland mob, they will be in trouble, because combat is complicated, and the tooltips are not enough. Only a small percentage of these players will go on to look at guides and a smaller one will go on to create a build and practice it, and the majority will have trouble when it comes to playing in dungeons and trials. Things like enchantments for armour, proper buff foods, stamina-magicka dps dichotomy, etc., which may seem as a given for vet players, are strange concepts for a lot of players, and messages in the loading screens are not a sufficient means of teaching someone about these things. There are many talented game guide creators and creators of addons that help with combat, out there, so I think if the devs take a leaf out of their book, and create tutorials throughout different facets of the game (they could even be like a separate mini game) it would go a long way in breaching the skill gap, without punishing/not rewarding effort, and having a happier playerbase overall.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

This was a change I was looking very forward too...

It was the animation cancelers who relied on Light Attacks for their DPS who whined.

Mettaricana

Finedaible wrote: »

I was intrigued by the changes to light/heavy attacks, but I think the timing of reviewing such a core mechanic couldn't have been worse. We are already having to deal with animation changes, nerfs, and all manner of performance improvements and we are seriously burnt out with all the changes which require time to adapt (assuming most players can adapt).

I did like one of Alcast's proposals, which was to basically tune down heavy attack damage from what it was on PTS, bring light attack damage back up a bit, and make both light and heavy attacks restore resources with scaling amounts (Alcast also proposed that neither restore resources but this would cause more issues in my opinion). This proposal seemed the most logical and intuitive to me since light attacks should not deal more dmg than abilities and heavy attacks should definitely not replace abilities in damage, but you would still need to use both or either in order to sustain your abilities.

I felt like they should have just buffed all the dps skills to atleast exceed light attack dmg

Runefang

Mettaricana wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

I was intrigued by the changes to light/heavy attacks, but I think the timing of reviewing such a core mechanic couldn't have been worse. We are already having to deal with animation changes, nerfs, and all manner of performance improvements and we are seriously burnt out with all the changes which require time to adapt (assuming most players can adapt).

I did like one of Alcast's proposals, which was to basically tune down heavy attack damage from what it was on PTS, bring light attack damage back up a bit, and make both light and heavy attacks restore resources with scaling amounts (Alcast also proposed that neither restore resources but this would cause more issues in my opinion). This proposal seemed the most logical and intuitive to me since light attacks should not deal more dmg than abilities and heavy attacks should definitely not replace abilities in damage, but you would still need to use both or either in order to sustain your abilities.

I felt like they should have just buffed all the dps skills to atleast exceed light attack dmg

They do.... try a rotation which is just spammable and light attack. The spammable will be 80-90% of the parse. Look at a Stamplar parse which has 40% of its damage done by jabs and burning light proc.

LadyNalcarya

Awesome news!

DustyWarehouse

Irfind wrote: »

So No

- scaling light and heavy attacks with your highest resource ( no 2H for my MagDK , no daggers for my Magblade)
- removal of the move speed penalty of heavy attacks for staffs and bows
- Reduced channel time for destruction staff and bows

Thx to all the whiners

While I appreciate your frustration, this is exactly the problem with the approach ZOS takes with their changes. Simply put, they make too many changes at once. I was one of the "whiners" you speak of, yet I completely agree that those changes you mention that won't be implemented (at least not immediately) are actually good changes.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

This was a change I was looking very forward too...

It was the animation cancelers who relied on Light Attacks for their DPS who whined.

Animation cancellers don't rely on light attacks for their DPS; they are just the type of player who is likely to also light-attack weave in their rotations, thus boosting their DPS even further than what animation cancelling allows.

If you don't animation cancel, you're gimping your DPS. If you don't light-attack weave, you're gimping your DPS. If you don't animation cancel or light-attack weave, you are either a player who suffers from ZOS' inability to teach core combat mechanics, or you're actively choosing to gimp your DPS.

Arunei

DustyWarehouse wrote: »

If you don't animation cancel, you're gimping your DPS. If you don't light-attack weave, you're gimping your DPS. If you don't animation cancel or light-attack weave, you are either a player who suffers from ZOS' inability to teach core combat mechanics, or you're actively choosing to gimp your DPS.

Or maybe you're someone who can't do those things for whatever reason, or simply choose not to. People here always act like these things are so easy to pick up but if that were the case I honestly doubt so many people would have a problem with it. Everyone likes to claim the people who have a problem with weaving or AC are just lazy or whatever, but almost no one actually stops to consider that there really are people who just can't do it, or who simply don't even care because they're a casual player who don't want to have to click their mouse key a hundred times a second to have decent DPS.

That being said, this didn't affect me either way when I was testing it. I didn't notice much of a change between how I normally play and changing things for HA doing damage and LA restoring resources. About the only thing I noticed was sustain on my WW Redguard was a lot better, especially in WW form, which was nice.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

khajiitNPC wrote: »

It won’t be pushed with the Greymoor chapter — does not = won’t be pushed at all.

Still, I'm glad they decided to hold off with this update and take more time to review the impact the changes to light and heavy attacks will make. Usually ZOS just pushes out the changes live and then spend the next 6 months to a year trying to fix it, (if they can.)

DustyWarehouse

Arunei wrote: »

Or maybe you're someone who can't do those things for whatever reason, or simply choose not to. People here always act like these things are so easy to pick up but if that were the case I honestly doubt so many people would have a problem with it. Everyone likes to claim the people who have a problem with weaving or AC are just lazy or whatever, but almost no one actually stops to consider that there really are people who just can't do it, or who simply don't even care because they're a casual player who don't want to have to click their mouse key a hundred times a second to have decent DPS.

I hadn't factored people who physically cannot do it in my response, so thank you for highlighting that. Even without animation cancelling and light-attack weaving, one can achieve good enough DPS that will be fine for the majority of content in the game. Only in end-game content does this become a problem, which wouldn't affect the casual player since they are unlikely to be part of a score-pushing raid team.

If a player is physically able, knows about it, but still chooses not to AC/weave, that's on them and I don't like the idea of raising the skill floor for this reason alone. I definitely don't like the idea of lowering the ceiling since that punishes those who have put in time and practice. There should always be a skill gap, since that is what creates a sense of progression. Is it too wide? Maybe. Becoming a master with relatively little to no effort isn't healthy for the game, but becoming competent shouldn't be difficult either, which is why I mentioned ZOS' shortcomings when it comes to teaching players the core mechanics of combat.

Jakx

Literally the game shouldn't even move until performance is fixed.

The answer in of itself is obvious since that isn't happening. They can't fix it so the game goes on and we pretend that fixing non-combat pet code is going to provide performance improvements lol.

ImmortalCX

I will say one thing, I have always thought it was unintuitive that a heavy attack would restore stamina. I'm pretty sure most people who come to the game have this reaction initially.

The changes were more intuitive. If you are tired and worn out, an inability to perform attacks that are more damaging makes sense.

I was kinda looking forward to it, only because it would completely change meta and the sets that you might equip. A massive reshuffle is something that ESO needs. I was eyeing my Sunderflame set, for instance.

Mindcr0w

The changes were more intuitive.

Were they though?

I'm not complaining about certain attacks restoring resources per se, but it isn't intuitive at all whether it's tied to lights or heavies.

If resource regen has to be tied to weapon attacks then code's suggested way of handling it would have been more intuitive than what we have now or what zos had proposed.

MCBIZZLE300

I'm still annoyed they even spent time on the idea when performance is so bad along with many many skills bieng useless now. I.e dots.

Shantu

Wow, a little bit of sanity from the lead dev!

Still think that leaving everything alone and just boosting the damage of HA's enough to raise the floor a bit would have been good for the game.

Fruity_Ninja

One thing that was good from the pre-PTS cycle, was having all LA/HA damage scale from your highest offensive stats (regardless of the weapon type). That change should stick and go live imho, as it just opens up weapon choice diversity and builds. Particularly in PVP.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Grianasteri

Props to ZOS for thinking a little outside the box and about how light attack/heavy attack mechanics could be improved.

Personally I was unsure about the changes but found myself falling on the side of being against them.

I would say, heavy attacking to restore resources IS counter intuitive and does not make any sense at all with respect to Physical weapons. Magica wise, one could argue its magic and hey, that type of attack returns resources, no problem. But to hit a physical weapon harder, takes more energy, or stamina.

So I can see where ZOS was coming from. I just don't think it would have worked out how they intended it (i.e they wanted to reduce reliance on light attack weaving to achieve good dps and reduce the skill/dps gap between top and bottom).

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

I can't thank Zos enough for listening to the majority of the community and reverting those awful changes. I hadn't any hope that they would, but I was pleasantly wrong. Thank you for letting me be able to enjoy the game as I know it, Zenimax, if even only until the next onset of mayhem. At least I'll be able to enjoy Greymoor.

ForzaRammer

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

This was a change I was looking very forward too...

It was the animation cancelers who relied on Light Attacks for their DPS who whined.

The couldn’t be furthest from truth. I am one of the biggest whiner, i main tank, I cleared all hm trials on tank, this is a nerf for pve tank sustain.

Catering for low output dps while hurting capable tank mains is just wrong.

Robo_Hobo

Very happy to hear this.

The concept wasn't bad but the execution did not satisfy the stated goals and also had unintended consequences.

If they try again down the line hopefully it will be a better iteration and follows some of the feedback they got from it this time around.

Finedaible

I would have liked for the removal of the stupid movement penalties when heavy attacking to have gone through though. That and the reduction to heavy attack 'charging' times would have helped make combat not feel so goddamned clunky like it is now.

navystylz_ESO

Irfind wrote: »

So No

- scaling light and heavy attacks with your highest resource ( no 2H for my MagDK , no daggers for my Magblade)
- removal of the move speed penalty of heavy attacks for staffs and bows
- Reduced channel time for destruction staff and bows

Thx to all the whiners

Damn I was looking forward to this. Guess I don't get to do anything competitive on my mageblade since will be messing around on him the most again with vamp changes.

JinMori

What i wonder is though... Did they also scrap the whole weapons scaling from your highest stats.

i would hope that they only scrapped what the feedback was against, and not in favor of. I would really like to make a viable dual wield magplar build again.

D0PAMINE

I like Codes idea.

Seperatist

Probably another destructive mechanic changes inc after chapter like it was with nerfmire/gamebreaker/dpshold in past.

Cladius30

Light attacks should do less damage and restore stamina. Heavy attacks should do more damage and use stamina.