They are not going through with the Light attack, Heavy Attack Changes with Greymoor.

Thevampirenight · April 8

Saw this posted on the pts
if you have not seen it yet turns out they listened to the feed back and decided not to go through with it. Though I did think the changes would be neat in their own way but they are listening after all. So you guys should be happy about this because it was indeed an off cycle play test and they are going to be doing more of this in the future. So these changes are not coming with the chapter and though some here will be disappointed they are not going through with it. Most will be happy they are not going through with the changes and hopefully any that were upset about this are breathing a sigh of relief tonight.

ZOS_BrianWheelerZOS_BrianWheeler
Lead PvP Designer
Hey gang!

First off, thank you all for hopping on the PTS and trying out the changes to light, medium and heavy attacks! This off-cycle PTS test was designed to give you all a chance to test some experimental changes and let your voice be heard earlier in the development process. This was a new thing for both the team and the community, and overall we think it was very successful. We got a ton of great feedback from those who tested – on both the forums and /feedback in-game.

It was great to see all the videos, forum posts and /feedback about the various methods of engaging with the core combat mechanics of attacks in varying types of roles and scenarios. There was also a ton of information we gathered tied to core mechanics, classes, progression and play patterns. It’s interesting to note just how different the feedback was too; DPS players had different feedback from Tanks and Support roles, and PVP players had different feedback from PVE players.

Now that we’ve had a chance to collect and read over all the feedback, we’ve decided that these changes to light/medium/heavy attacks will not be included in the Greymoor Chapter (U26). We will continue to investigate ways to improve on light and heavy attacks to ensure they provide impactful moments, where it’s an important choice to pick and choose your attacks.

Thank you again to all who participated and tested these changes on the PTS; your feedback has been invaluable, and we learned a lot. We look forward to your feedback regarding the upcoming Chapter, and hope to have more out-of-cycle PTS tests like this in the future!

Iskiab · April 8

Damn, my MagDK vampire heavy attack build dream has been dashed!

Finedaible · April 8

I was intrigued by the changes to light/heavy attacks, but I think the timing of reviewing such a core mechanic couldn't have been worse. We are already having to deal with animation changes, nerfs, and all manner of performance improvements and we are seriously burnt out with all the changes which require time to adapt (assuming most players can adapt).

I did like one of Alcast's proposals, which was to basically tune down heavy attack damage from what it was on PTS, bring light attack damage back up a bit, and make both light and heavy attacks restore resources with scaling amounts (Alcast also proposed that neither restore resources but this would cause more issues in my opinion). This proposal seemed the most logical and intuitive to me since light attacks should not deal more dmg than abilities and heavy attacks should definitely not replace abilities in damage, but you would still need to use both or either in order to sustain your abilities.

JumpmanLane · April 8

My faith has been restored! I’m going home and resub.

My thing with the changes weren’t the changes themselves; but, rather the very real possibility that these changes would have come with a myriad of bugs like the changes to block.

If at some point ZOS goes through with future changes to core combat mechanics, I would hope they would include an off cycle PTS like this one. It’s the start of a good track record with respect to ZOS. It’s encouraging.

Vevvev · April 8

Iskiab wrote: »

Damn, my MagDK vampire heavy attack build dream has been dashed!

Better luck next time!

Is still panicking over the the 100k+ damage heavy attacks people had managed to get.

khajiitNPC · April 8

It won’t be pushed with the Greymoor chapter — does not = won’t be pushed at all.

Royaji · April 8

khajiitNPC wrote: »

It won’t be pushed with the Greymoor chapter — does not = won’t be pushed at all.

Yeah, I have to agree with that. This whole thing reads like "we are not going to screw everyone over... yet".

Thevampirenight · April 8

khajiitNPC wrote: »

It won’t be pushed with the Greymoor chapter — does not = won’t be pushed at all.

I imagine some of the stuff will be added from the Off Cycle. I still think the heavy attack sets shown with Greymoor will be coming along with the changes to Molag Kena. They just won't be adding in the Heavy/light attack changes themselves.

There is that chance that one day these heavy/light attack changes will be added in but they won't be with Greymoor.
Maybe when they do the combat performance updates including the Cp system. But those likely won't be done until sometime later this year or next year.
But there is that chance they never ever get added so there is that possibility as well.

zvavi · April 8

Thanks for update! Link for post
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/517545/pts-patch-notes-testing-ideas-for-light-heavy-attacks-in-combat#latest

olsborg · April 8

They need to go back to the drawingboard with that change, ppl was HAing for 100k + on mobs. Imagine all the crap ganker builds youd see in pvp, 20k hits around every corner. Bleh.

SpiderKnight · April 9

khajiitNPC wrote: »

It won’t be pushed with the Greymoor chapter — does not = won’t be pushed at all.

No joke, news on chapter delay, and then this today. Something tells me they don't have time to implement it with the current state of everything. I won't be surprised to see it in U26.

blkjag · April 9

Really glad to hear this isn’t happening. Now can we please take the cast time off ultimates

Thevampirenight · April 9

SpiderKnight wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

It won’t be pushed with the Greymoor chapter — does not = won’t be pushed at all.

No joke, news on chapter delay, and then this today. Something tells me they don't have time to implement it with the current state of everything. I won't be surprised to see it in U26.

Makes me wonder if its because they have to readjust stuff and had to delay the pts because of their decision not to go through with the Light, Medium and Heavy attack changes.
Because they have to work from home so changes are not being done at their offices but on their home computers.

I do think this the reason for the Delay. However if they manage to be able to open back up again a lot sooner. Its possible they could launch on the 18th of May. We will have to wait and see and it depends on the epidemic going on right now.

Sanctum74 · April 9

They will probably make the changes later on down the line, but for the meantime let’s celebrate like it’s 1999 🥂 🍾

Thevampirenight · April 9

zvavi wrote: »

Thanks for update! Link for post
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/517545/pts-patch-notes-testing-ideas-for-light-heavy-attacks-in-combat#latest

You're welcome.

NinchiTV · April 9

Thank the gods.

Hanokihs · April 9

Royaji wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

It won’t be pushed with the Greymoor chapter — does not = won’t be pushed at all.

Yeah, I have to agree with that. This whole thing reads like "we are not going to screw everyone over... yet".

That was exactly my thought when reading it. And I'm betting they'll put it in with plenty of other changes to downplay that aspect of whatever patch it's attached to.

Alucardo · April 9

This is awesome for a couple of reasons.

1) A majority of the proposed changes were horrible.
2) It shows ZOS will actually listen to feedback/concerns and act accordingly.

Thank you.

JasonWangTaiwan · April 9

Light attack damage change is required in the future since its currently big part of damage resource and skill damage been nurfed.
They need to buff skill damage before making any changes to light or heavy attack,
anyway I prefer heavy attack doing more damage since its pointless to charge heavy attack in skill rotation.

JinMori · April 9

Thank god, better to have no changes than a poorly thought out one.

As i said before, the idea itself is not too bad, but, what they could do was, reduce la damage, give it back to abilities, buff heavy attacks and that's it.

Either give sustain to both, or to none, and instead increase the baseline sustain.

But reducing la damage by almost 80% and giving it sustain and that's it? No, that was bad, sure some people may be able to get 90k dps, so what? I am almost at that point, and honestly, i would not like to see that.

If you want to deal with power creep, do it in a better, smarter way, that does not involve nerfing, it is possible, you just gonna put some effort in. Because progression in an mmo is really important, whether it is gear, damage or anything really, players usually don't wanna feel stuck at a certain power level that never increases. One of the reasons why i disliked these cp point not going forwards, it was not a big power creep contribution, but it gave a sense of progression from each patch.

But, it's better to have no progression for a few patches rather than going through with poorly thought out ideas.

Thevampirenight · April 9

Hanokihs wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

It won’t be pushed with the Greymoor chapter — does not = won’t be pushed at all.

Yeah, I have to agree with that. This whole thing reads like "we are not going to screw everyone over... yet".

That was exactly my thought when reading it. And I'm betting they'll put it in with plenty of other changes to downplay that aspect of whatever patch it's attached to.

Well I do think people would catch on pretty fast if that was what they are planning to do. Maybe it could be part of a future update beyond Greymoor but given the feed back being very much against that form of implementation so they might make a better change that players are more willing to accept. I don't think the higher up bosses would be very happy if they went and drove away a lot of revenue for the game.

Thus its possible they know they can't do the typical change this and make it completely different this time around because it likely is costing them potential revenue. By working with the community they can at least build back trust so they can continue to receive money from the player base for the new content they put out. Its possible the amount of refunds for Greymoor took them by surprise and this could be one of the reasons they are not going through with it.

Tommy_The_Gun · April 9

Zenimax listened to feedback...

That is unexpected lol...

Dracane · April 9

We can celebrate for now. But I remind you to always fear the story DLC coming at the end of each year. So far, they have always brought or attempted to bring destructive changes. Nerfmire is a good example.

So I think we will have to deal with this later this year.

Hanokihs · April 9

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

It won’t be pushed with the Greymoor chapter — does not = won’t be pushed at all.

Yeah, I have to agree with that. This whole thing reads like "we are not going to screw everyone over... yet".

That was exactly my thought when reading it. And I'm betting they'll put it in with plenty of other changes to downplay that aspect of whatever patch it's attached to.

Well I do think people would catch on pretty fast if that was what they are planning to do. Maybe it could be part of a future update beyond Greymoor but given the feed back being very much against that form of implementation so they might make a better change that players are more willing to accept. I don't think the higher up bosses would be very happy if they went and drove away a lot of revenue for the game.

Thus its possible they know they can't do the typical change this and make it completely different this time around because it likely is costing them potential revenue. By working with the community they can at least build back trust so they can continue to receive money from the player base for the new content they put out. Its possible the amount of refunds for Greymoor took them by surprise and this could be one of the reasons they are not going through with it.

It's also possible that the pandemic made it hard to push/tweak changes to the combat system, and the reason they're waiting is because they intend to roll out a more comprehensive combat overhaul. Lol but who knows with these guys anymore; they're good at never being very clear with us on what they're planning. Kinda wish we had a real statement on the bigger picture so we can see these ideas in context, but here we are.

I expect we'll revisit the LA/HA stuff when they start seriously talking about revamping the CP system.

Thevampirenight · April 9

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Zenimax listened to feedback...
That is unexpected lol...

I agree that it was surprising, but then given well the negative feed back plus the likely increased requests for refunds for the New Chapter and subscriptions being canceled. I do believe this was one of the main factors in the decision. Because they were going to lose money if they just went through with it.

I do think not going through with it is the main reason why they had to delay the Greymoor Launch, because they have to reprogram things and they have to do it from their houses.
Given we get news of the delay and then later news of them not going through with the Combat Changes I do feel its connected.

Tommy_The_Gun · April 9

Dracane wrote: »

We can celebrate for now. But I remind you to always fear the story DLC coming at the end of each year. So far, they have always brought or attempted to bring destructive changes. Nerfmire is a good example.

So I think we will have to deal with this later this year.

Actually, "Nerfmire" was not that bad compared to later updates. I find that ironic, that the 1st update of new combat team (Wrathstone) was the beginning of the game going downhill...

Nemesis7884 · April 9

disappointed...i think imo its again a loud minority that complained

imo its simply bad game design and very unintuitive that light attacks are your major damage source and do also more damage than heavy attacks...

honestly combat in eso has continuously become worse imo.... its just a mess now

Faulgor · April 9

Disappointing, but expected.

Anhedonie · April 9

We'll see how it turns out by the end of the year. Doesn't mean these changes will come with the patch after or by the end of the year. Some changes weren't too bad. Restoring resources with LA, for example. Sustain management is boring in this game anyway.
80% dmg nerf of light attacks though...yeah, that was dumbest thing I've seen in a while.

gatekeeper13 · April 9

Thank God, there is still some logic left in ZOS. Those changes were going to kill sustain in my DK tank.

Integral1900 · April 9

Oh well... 😔

I was really looking forward to them... they felt good... not that it will change anything, I prefer heavy attacks to light ones because they are so much more dramatic... don’t like light attacks because they just feel like I’m spamming buttons and it makes my wrist ache ☹️