AP boosting / feeding - legit? Against TOS?

Beardimus

Well there we have it on reset. Boosters top two alliance leaderboards first night and campaign is going to be dead for a month.

This is why cheating sucks, it ruins the game for all.

We even had the old classic of faction hop to turn siege around so hamper the map flip defence..

@ZOS_BrianWheeler NOTHING good comes of faction unlock on a lower pop campaign. But this thread is about AP boosting on industrial scale is it legit? As if so we might as well all do it. If it's not please stop it.. I just wanna know.

Ectheliontnacil

Beardimus wrote: »

hasi wrote: »

That's all legal.
Also, "Alliance Hopping" for real? Some people take PvP too serious, just let them play how they want and where they want. Not like there is a lot going on in other Campaigns than the locked 30 Day...🤦🏻‍♀️

How about when boosters harras folks interfering with their gainz? Still cool by you?

How do boosters "harass" people who interfere with their ap farming?
I guess they just kill the people trying to stop them, which is perfectly legitimate pvp.
And if you don't like it, you've got the locked campaign.

ItsJustHashtag

You can boost in alliance locked campaigns as well. Just be in psn/xbl/discord or other with friends. Ez pz

ItsJustHashtag

Beardimus wrote: »

hasi wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

hasi wrote: »

That's all legal.
Also, "Alliance Hopping" for real? Some people take PvP too serious, just let them play how they want and where they want. Not like there is a lot going on in other Campaigns than the locked 30 Day...🤦🏻‍♀️

Yeah for real.
How about when behaviour messes up the game for others?
Especially on noCP where new PvPers come to play, and they see people earning millions of AP doing shady stuff. So they have to beat em or join em. How about when boosters harras folks interfering with their gainz? Still cool by you?

Why should we 'let people play how they want' of they aren't doing the same.

Anyhoo, it's clear where your stance is and I ain't getting into an online morality debate I'm asking the question. Is it legal and legit, or will ZOS act.

What has Alliance Hopping to do with bad behavior? And why bring harassment into such an argument, when it literally has nothing to do with Alliance Hopping itsself, but rather with a personality trait?
Also, doing shady stuff? Am I and many other PvE Players supposed to be banned, because we choose our Alliances without a real thought and simply try to earn the first Reward Rank for Crystals?

Another question, what do you think are people doing with the AP? Selling them over eBay? Very likely not, as they are barely worth a thing. They do it to get their Campaign Rewards or Emperor/Empress. The unlocked Campaigns are so unpopular, that they'll have to fake action for anything to be going on there.

PS: I answered your question. If you want to know so badly, read the TOS and decide neutral whether it really matches or not.

Alliance hoping doesn't equal bad behaviour, you are correct but it certainly can be used as enabler.

This debate is for other threads, but alliance lock is the majority favourite hence Grey Host being main camp, It's Prefered for a reason..

You clearly don't know much about PvP, if you think Alliance points are worth 'barely a thing' also you reference campaign rewards. Lol. You need 25k for crystals, and not much more for Tier 3. You don't need multiple millions.

I'm not trying to ban PvE players lol, I'm trying to keep the noCP campaign a place they can come. You trying interfering with AP farming as a PvEer, see what happens..

Having people farm multiple millions early days in a campaign kills it. Keeps it dead. And messes with those that want to play..

As for TOS, I'd prefer to ask openly. TOS are open to interpretation AND players have been banned before. It's a healthy debate.

You seem neither for nor against AP boosting but have shifted the conversation to lock Vs unlock I think, let's not detail TY

I can guarantee you that when the changed campaigns that if “Standard” was listed first it would be the most popular campaign. But instead the faction locked campaign is first. It’s scientifically proven that people gravitate to the first option when it comes to list like these.

mav1234

I wonder if this would be partially alleviated if faction unlocked campaigns basically could be set up to be "home" and "guest" able at the account level and based on faction. So if I home no cp on DC, I can play it on my EP, but as a guest.

MincVinyl

No nothing about that is against TOS

Coming from a 6 year PvPer on PCNA I would be hard pressed to say that there are a massive amount of people cheating at farming ap. Generally anyways it is easier to pvdoor keeps since keep ticks are worth so much and there are little to no downsides to just run with a large man group. Actually it is more likely on non locked campaigns that people will flip the whole map(ruining pvp for everyone) and then either log off or a very slim few might swap over to flip the map from the other side.

In the lower popped campaigns it is easier to get people to log when the map is not balanced. Thus you could artificially give the other factions low pop bonus to flip over and gain more ap. In reality usually the people that flip the map like that are faction loyal weirdos that for some reason care about the scoreboard that means nothing. I honestly wish the scoreboard points were halted until a certain population on all factions was reached. The lower pop servers just die when a guild comes in and runs keeps down unopposed.

zaria

VaranisArano wrote: »

Obvious collaboration in flipping has gotten people banned/penalized in the past, as when there was coordinated flipping at Bleakers and Blackboot on PC/NA.

If you can catch players in the act of AP boosting via getting their friends to suicide to them at resources or something similar, its certainly reportable.

Merely logging onto one alliance to flip the map then swapping to the other alliance to flip the map back...that's just business as usual on a low pop unlocked campaign. The solution to that is to faction lock the campaign, and ZOS seems to prefer giving players at least the option to have an unlocked campaign even if they do participate in flipping the map/Emperorship.

Yes they made the cooldown on resources longer because people flipped them.
They have banned people flipping keeps coordinated.

Don't think killing the same player over an over give AP, did not get serious AP from the Empirior title, think its an cooldown mechanism here too.

But yes taking the map switching faction and repeat work and its hardly something you can ban people for.

EmEm_Oh

Beardimus wrote: »

So... AP farming....millions gained via boosting / feeding AP, and using alliance hopping etc

Is this really ok?

Do ZOS monitor / do anything about it? I recall in the past (first MYM action was taken)

Definitive answer would be swell. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

It's been done to prove that faction locking doesn't work (there are a group of PVPers that believe everything should be unlocked, free to faction hop during campaigns, and since they can't do it so easily...they resorted to another exploit and now ask their opposing faction players to boost their ap, and they'll do the same).

It's basically burning your own house down in protest because you don't like a smoke detector in your living room: "See, my smoke detector doesn't work. Told yah!"

It's unethical to boost, but not against the rules per se, but anything that drives the game off its normal course could be against TOS, by the way, as the definition is up to the person interpreting it...who is ZOS. I don't boost, think it's rather childish, and becoming Emp really isn't what it used to be.

Kwoung

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

hasi wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

hasi wrote: »

That's all legal.
Also, "Alliance Hopping" for real? Some people take PvP too serious, just let them play how they want and where they want. Not like there is a lot going on in other Campaigns than the locked 30 Day...🤦🏻‍♀️

Yeah for real.
How about when behaviour messes up the game for others?
Especially on noCP where new PvPers come to play, and they see people earning millions of AP doing shady stuff. So they have to beat em or join em. How about when boosters harras folks interfering with their gainz? Still cool by you?

Why should we 'let people play how they want' of they aren't doing the same.

Anyhoo, it's clear where your stance is and I ain't getting into an online morality debate I'm asking the question. Is it legal and legit, or will ZOS act.

What has Alliance Hopping to do with bad behavior? And why bring harassment into such an argument, when it literally has nothing to do with Alliance Hopping itsself, but rather with a personality trait?
Also, doing shady stuff? Am I and many other PvE Players supposed to be banned, because we choose our Alliances without a real thought and simply try to earn the first Reward Rank for Crystals?

Another question, what do you think are people doing with the AP? Selling them over eBay? Very likely not, as they are barely worth a thing. They do it to get their Campaign Rewards or Emperor/Empress. The unlocked Campaigns are so unpopular, that they'll have to fake action for anything to be going on there.

PS: I answered your question. If you want to know so badly, read the TOS and decide neutral whether it really matches or not.

Alliance hoping doesn't equal bad behaviour, you are correct but it certainly can be used as enabler.

This debate is for other threads, but alliance lock is the majority favourite hence Grey Host being main camp, It's Prefered for a reason..

You clearly don't know much about PvP, if you think Alliance points are worth 'barely a thing' also you reference campaign rewards. Lol. You need 25k for crystals, and not much more for Tier 3. You don't need multiple millions.

I'm not trying to ban PvE players lol, I'm trying to keep the noCP campaign a place they can come. You trying interfering with AP farming as a PvEer, see what happens..

Having people farm multiple millions early days in a campaign kills it. Keeps it dead. And messes with those that want to play..

As for TOS, I'd prefer to ask openly. TOS are open to interpretation AND players have been banned before. It's a healthy debate.

You seem neither for nor against AP boosting but have shifted the conversation to lock Vs unlock I think, let's not detail TY

I can guarantee you that when the changed campaigns that if “Standard” was listed first it would be the most popular campaign. But instead the faction locked campaign is first. It’s scientifically proven that people gravitate to the first option when it comes to list like these.

Yeah nope, people do not choose alliance locked because it is first on the list. They choose it because pretty much all the even semi-serious guilds, do the alliance locked campaign. It is far more a matter of spies in Zone chat, Discord or your group than it being the first choice. While it doesn't completely solve the issue, it definitely cuts down on it. Having a spy report your movements to an opposing alliance can really ruin your day and make PVP a real pain. Surprise in taking a keep/resource is a big part of the strategies, having 30 opposing players hiding in wait for you to show up, ruins it.

Env_t

Beardimus wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Don't like it, don't crown them. Too bad that takes a lot of dissent in a faction to get done when there is nothing but PvDoor.

They don't want crown nor fight for it lol. They happy with underdog bonus

can you elaborate whats that mean and how it working?

i mean underdog bonus for dticks

Beardimus

Env_t wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Don't like it, don't crown them. Too bad that takes a lot of dissent in a faction to get done when there is nothing but PvDoor.

They don't want crown nor fight for it lol. They happy with underdog bonus

can you elaborate whats that mean and how it working?

i mean underdog bonus for dticks

it probably defies the purpose of my thread to elaborate about that here!

AP earning mechanics is all.

Env_t

Beardimus wrote: »

Env_t wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Don't like it, don't crown them. Too bad that takes a lot of dissent in a faction to get done when there is nothing but PvDoor.

They don't want crown nor fight for it lol. They happy with underdog bonus

can you elaborate whats that mean and how it working?

i mean underdog bonus for dticks

it probably defies the purpose of my thread to elaborate about that here!

AP earning mechanics is all.

so how its working?

emeraldshado

Beardimus wrote: »

So... AP farming....millions gained via boosting / feeding AP, and using alliance hopping etc

Is this really ok?

Do ZOS monitor / do anything about it? I recall in the past (first MYM action was taken)

Definitive answer would be swell. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532779/ap-boosting#latest


the person boosting disappeared off the leader board about 12 hours or so after the final post.

Best to provide evidence. i expect the phone pictures with the time stamps and AP comparisons helped.

Beardimus

Env_t wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Env_t wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Don't like it, don't crown them. Too bad that takes a lot of dissent in a faction to get done when there is nothing but PvDoor.

They don't want crown nor fight for it lol. They happy with underdog bonus

can you elaborate whats that mean and how it working?

i mean underdog bonus for dticks

it probably defies the purpose of my thread to elaborate about that here!

AP earning mechanics is all.

so how its working?

So, why do you want to know?

(See above)

Beardimus

emeraldshado wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

So... AP farming....millions gained via boosting / feeding AP, and using alliance hopping etc

Is this really ok?

Do ZOS monitor / do anything about it? I recall in the past (first MYM action was taken)

Definitive answer would be swell. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532779/ap-boosting#latest


the person boosting disappeared off the leader board about 12 hours or so after the final post.

Best to provide evidence. i expect the phone pictures with the time stamps and AP comparisons helped.

Great work @emeraldshado nice to see ZOS reacted.

Interesting that it's also Ravenwatch for you, different platform.

About time we got faction lock back on quiet campaigns @ZOS_BrianWheeler and some active AP per minute data reviews going on

doomette

Beardimus wrote: »

About time we got faction lock back on quiet campaigns @ZOS_BrianWheeler ...

🙄 give a mouse a cookie

Env_t

emeraldshado wrote: »

this player had a friend or guildy approach the keep to get a defence tick, and just kept doing it.

so just this simple?
i will try this too

Beardimus

Env_t wrote: »

emeraldshado wrote: »

this player had a friend or guildy approach the keep to get a defence tick, and just kept doing it.

so just this simple?
i will try this too

Lol, way to miss the point of the thread..

Iarao

VaranisArano wrote: »

evoniee wrote: »

system prevent kill same target over and over, you not getting any AP when killing same target for some time

What the system doesn't prevent is getting a D-tick from killing the same target at an objective, which is how boosting works.

what is a d-tick?

Iarao

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I can't say anything on whether it is or is not against TOS. But it should be. In the cases where people funnel AP to one player to boost them on the ladder it's defeating the purpose of the game and gives an unfair advantage over players that play by the rules, just like exploiting does.

I want to make it clear that I am against artificial blockades, such as locked campaigns, to enforce this as it also negatively impacts the players that play on multiple alliances but do know how to behave and don't ruin the fun for others. If someone has evidence on someone else funnelling alliance points to a player on a grand scale (not just killing your friend 100 times in the IC Arena for the achievement as a one time thing, but having your whole guild line up and let themselves be killed over and over again), then that should be reportable. The same goes for giving Volendrung to the enemy or taking your own alliance's scrolls for a swim with the slaughter fishes.
It's a different matter on how to obtain proof of these things happening...

swim with the fishes so what happens to the scroll?

Muzza45

I've been in PvP for a decent amount of time, and have enough AP that I don't know what to do with it all. I play for fun, and cannot fathom why people will 'boost' for AP. It's simply boring.
To be fair, why don't folks also call-out the shady business of 'boosting' XP at dolmens or zombies? You may not be getting currency, but again it's probably not how ZOS envisaged levelling and I don't think it's in the spirit of the game either!
How can you police this stuff?

Beardimus

Muzza45 wrote: »

I've been in PvP for a decent amount of time, and have enough AP that I don't know what to do with it all. I play for fun, and cannot fathom why people will 'boost' for AP. It's simply boring.
To be fair, why don't folks also call-out the shady business of 'boosting' XP at dolmens or zombies? You may not be getting currency, but again it's probably not how ZOS envisaged levelling and I don't think it's in the spirit of the game either!
How can you police this stuff?

appears folks bore themseleves for lots of reasons
- Boosting to get Emp for that group / guild
- desire for Grand Warlord (yep some people care)
- levelling assault / support skills
- convert AP to Gold

People do call out dolmens when its abusive (rubber band over trigger) and also it doesn't directly impact others.

If you have a guild interested in faction loyalty or legit trying to get Emp etc - and folks are just sat earning millions of AP it tilts the boards. If it was decoupled as a currency from Emp leaderboard etc would change all that - basically its just crossover on motifs.

And one way of play impact another.

People want to faction hop to play the weaker side and enjoy a fight - fair do. people faction Hop to troll people or flip keeps back and forth or run scrolls about - it messes with others. Same with AP boosting.

AND - AP Boosters tend to be aggressive. look at the event now, groups sat flicking keeps back and forth doors unrepaired. Up rocks another group t actually play PVP and they get trolled away. etc

XP farming at dolmens hardly bothers others.

azjuwelz

Yeah, the boosting I've seen is 2 factions sitting at a keep taking turns flipping it. Pretty obvious as they're literally just standing around watching the other alliance flip it without bothering to act.

The trick is actually finding and recording them to report. I hate that 2 days after a new campaign starts you have one person in 2 of the alliances sitting at 10 million AP with everyone else FAR below them. I guess Zos doesn't monitor such things but it sucks when others would like to achieve Emperor.

Even if only for a few minutes.

Dusk_Coven

Muzza45 wrote: »

To be fair, why don't folks also call-out the shady business of 'boosting' XP at dolmens or zombies? You may not be getting currency, but again it's probably not how ZOS envisaged levelling and I don't think it's in the spirit of the game either!
How can you police this stuff?

Some people do. But there's a lot of resistance against addressing dolmen farming because it's one of the few "free" power-levelling options -- although the real reason is probably closer to not wanting power-levelling / zoom-to-level-cap showing up in the cash shop instead (like they do in other games). Neither are really "good" reasons to keep dolmen XP farming.
If we're not careful, people asking for too-convenient wayshrines will see the same happen to Dragons and Harrowstorms. The more it happens, the more people will expect it elsewhere and demand more and more farming convenience.

That said, AP boosting is not really comparable to dolmen XP farming because you can't "boost" the XP of a dolmen. Even in the best case of Alik'r where you can get a dolmen done every few minutes, the XP award is still a fixed amount.
AP boosting does not have a fixed AP award or events to clear -- it's more in control of the collaborating players and pretty much wholly out of ZOS's control.
ZOS can probably code to watch how fast dolmens clear. They can't be reasonably expected to watch Cyrodiil campaigns 24/7 looking for people AP boosting -- and trying to distinguish deliberate boosting from inadvertent events or people incidentally being at an AP boosting site but not intending to participate.

Also XP farming doesn't change any leaderboards anywhere. That is, there's no real competition going on there, so no one to cheat per se.

Dusk_Coven

Beardimus wrote: »

appears folks bore themseleves for lots of reasons
- Boosting to get Emp for that group / guild
- desire for Grand Warlord (yep some people care)
- levelling assault / support skills
- convert AP to Gold

Another possibility might be re-rolled toons for under-50's BG. Alliance ranks can get you skill points without actually levelling you (?)

AmoralOne

Found this under the Code of Conduct. Hope it helps you!

5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home.

The question of whether or not Zos will do something about them, well thats up to them isnt it?

Env_t

DTAmoral wrote: »

Found this under the Code of Conduct. Hope it helps you!

5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home.

The question of whether or not Zos will do something about them, well thats up to them isnt it?

but this is not a BUG

this is valid game mechanic, until ZOS says otherwise

so we will go and boost some AP today!

AmoralOne

Env_t wrote: »

DTAmoral wrote: »

Found this under the Code of Conduct. Hope it helps you!

5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home.

The question of whether or not Zos will do something about them, well thats up to them isnt it?

but this is not a BUG

this is valid game mechanic, until ZOS says otherwise

so we will go and boost some AP today!

@Env_t I think it falls more under "or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems)"

But hey I get it, if you boost you boost. I was just trying to answer OPs question

Sargesgaming

DTAmoral wrote: »

Env_t wrote: »

DTAmoral wrote: »

Found this under the Code of Conduct. Hope it helps you!

5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home.

The question of whether or not Zos will do something about them, well thats up to them isnt it?

but this is not a BUG

this is valid game mechanic, until ZOS says otherwise

so we will go and boost some AP today!

@Env_t I think it falls more under "or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems)"

But hey I get it, if you boost you boost. I was just trying to answer OPs question

I will help this along lmao

Beardimus

Env_t wrote: »

DTAmoral wrote: »

Found this under the Code of Conduct. Hope it helps you!

5.2 Users will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. Users will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via http://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/home.

The question of whether or not Zos will do something about them, well thats up to them isnt it?

but this is not a BUG

this is valid game mechanic, until ZOS says otherwise

so we will go and boost some AP today!

@Env_t did you conveniently ignore the sentence after the comma?

or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems