Wouldn't a global cool down or automatic auto attacking (like most MMORPGs) be a better solution?

MashmalloMan · April 2020

Smh. The people who want to completely rework core mechanics of the game, don't even understand how the GCD works.

Yes, ZOS should change the game for people who have 0 investment in the game just so when it inevitably plays like crap, they can quit and move on to another game they'll try to change.

I have to ask, is this the game for you? Why are you trying to destroy what people have come to love. ZOS is at least smart enough to try and give low APM players better options by buffing heavy attacks. While I don't think their efforts worked, they're on the right track.

I applaud ZOS for not entertaining the idea to remove weaving or increase the GCD. [Snip]

[Edited for bait]

Darktrox · April 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

show previous quotes

Knowledge wrote: »

I believe with a global cool down and/or auto attacking, using what is tried-and-true, several issues can be resolved. The game will be more accessible to other players and allow other players to compete at a higher level and lag will be toned down as a result. A GCD will place less strain on the servers than button spam.

There is a Global Cooldown but people get around it. Instead of enforcing it, ZOS allowed it even though in pretty much any other game, if you told someone you found a way to increase your DPS without resource cost and with negligible time, it's likely to be called out as an exploit or loophole.
For example, if you Light Attack several times in a row, each attack animates. But if you Light Attack and then use another skill, that Light Attack animation is cancelled and the skill activates right away. Why? Only ZOS knows. Or maybe not even.

Auto-attack I believe is a relic of older MMOs where automatic grinding was in effect necessary to inch up at higher levels. If we had it here, you'd probably see people just idling their toons and letting auto attack farm for them while they watch Netflix. Or not, because you can almost do the same at Alik'r Dolmens already. Just get hit by lightning and go back to Netflix.

This does not get around the GDC. There's a priority in animation cancelling here. You can cancel the basic attacks, not skills (of course, you can cancel them by dodging and breaking free, for the sake of the obvious), that's why you use light attack and then you use a skill, not the other way around. There's a priority and both types of attack (basic and skills) use a GDC. you can't shoot 2 skills at the same time or either 2 basic attacks. Even so, light attacks in some of the skills doesn't even cancel the animation. You can't exploit the GDC, because all of this was designed this way.

Edit: I also want to point out that many other mmo's that are action focused, can give the situation where you increase your dps due to your optimization of execution of abilities (your OWN skill), without any other costs, in this case, this is just a gap for players that practice the weaving rotation (which is simply optimize your rotation), it's not an exploit, otherwise it would have be removed many years ago.

ecru · April 2020

Rotations in eso are already very very easy compared to other games and if all light/heavy attacks were just rolled into an autoattack instead, the game would become incredibly boring and easy. Without cooldowns (besides ults), off gcd abilities (or variable gcd abilities like a 0.5s gcd ability), and no real ability queue/backup system, there would be almost nothing to do or think about besides hitting one button every second for an instant ability or refreshing a dot.

The fact is that unless you want to clear veteran hard mode content, you do not need to be able to weave well at all. You can light attack once every 6 seconds if you want to maintain ult, but beyond that, it simply isn't necessary because you don't need that extra dps to clear 99% of the content in the game. The only thing forcing you to light attack weave is you. And no, the hardest content in the game should not be accessible to players who cannot go beyond hitting one button per second. I'm sorry, but the skill ceiling has to be higher than that if you want decent players to stick around.

Jeremy · April 2020

Knowledge wrote: »

Most MMORPGs, even similar ones like Guild Wars 2, use a Global Cooldown. I believe it's referred to as skill recharge in Guild Wars 2. However, this system works very well in many games and also combats lag by allowing the system to deal with less inputs. Originally, the GCD or global cool down was added to early MMORPGs like EverQuest 1 and the like to deal with lag and balance the game more.

I believe with a global cool down and/or auto attacking, using what is tried-and-true, several issues can be resolved. The game will be more accessible to other players and allow other players to compete at a higher level and lag will be toned down as a result. A GCD will place less strain on the servers than button spam.

This is just my two cents.

I agree, especially at this point and seeing the proposed changes they are intending to deal with this issue, which is going to end up doing more harm to the game play than weaving and animation canceling ever did.

It's time for them to just add an auto attack. I might enjoy weaving light attacks into my attack rotations and believe it enhances the game play. But I don't like it enough to be expected to weave light attacks in between everything I do in order to maintain my resources. That's going to (and already has) get old and annoying very quickly. So if that's where they are headed with this weaving controversy you can count me out. Just add an auto attack already and be done with it.

Opalblade · April 2020

Knowledge wrote: »

Maybe I should be more specific. I think the global cool down should be longer or each skill should have a recharge. So, perhaps 1.5s between uses or up to 2.0s.

Maybe instead ESO should just add a new playable race of snail people that can only move once every 2 seconds.

Rianai · April 2020

Fun Fact: Unlike ESO, GW2 does not even have a global cooldown (it has skill cooldowns - which is something different).

Fawn4287 · April 2020

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Smh. The people who want to completely rework core mechanics of the game, don't even understand how the GCD works.

Yes, ZOS should change the game for people who have 0 investment in the game just so when it inevitably plays like crap, they can quit and move on to another game they'll try to change.

I have to ask, is this the game for you? Why are you trying to destroy what people have come to love. ZOS is at least smart enough to try and give low APM players better options by buffing heavy attacks. While I don't think their efforts worked, they're on the right track.

I applaud ZOS for not entertaining the idea to remove weaving or increase the GCD. [Snip]

[Edited for bait]

How would you actually kill anyone in pvp if your Burst combo was any slower?

relentless_turnip · April 2020

If they ever made the combat as bad as other mmo's I would quit!

I played WOW back 2006-2008 and could never get on board with the combat.
I loved the world and AV but the combat was so boring.

When I played ESO I liked it a lot, once i figured out the combat i was obsessed.

Weaving has been held up as some sort of exploit or something only the most elite can do.
It isn't, it is clicking the mouse button and then pressing a skill it is that simple.

As an example my 5 year old daughter will often grind for me when i'm levelling a new character.
I taught her to weave and she learnt in about 30 seconds and does it all the time now.

I think the developers are partly responsible for not teaching players about it in the game.
When they do discover it they feel cheated as if they have unearthed a dirty secret.
I feel if this was taught to players we wouldn't have this huge divide when it comes to people wanting animation cancelling removed. There may be some that still don't like it, but most of these arguments are formed from ignorance.
When you probe a person against it, it becomes very apparent they don't even know what it is.

Anyone confused by what animation cancelling is, it is the ability to cancel the animation of a skill to be able to do another high priority action. Such as: blocking,dodging or swapping bars. It has been used over the years to marginally improve dps, but it doesn't make much difference, however weaving light attacks does. It essentially means you can end the animation of your skill faster so you activate the next light attack sooner, but you can't do it any faster than the 1 second global cooldown.

Animation cancelling is present in any action combat game and it could never be removed. Think about it for a second and try to imagine another action combat game where you couldn't block/dodge/heal when you needed to regardless if you have pressed another skill. It isn't an exploit despite what others may have told you. It rewards the player for reacting at the right time. If it is an exploit in ESO it is an exploit in every other action combat game.

If you died very quickly to a player and think he has animation cancelled you to death,this isn't true. This is a combo and the player that has killed you(presuming no one else was involved) has cast a skill every second in the hope of making as much damage land at the same time as possible. like: blast bones, crit charge, execute.
The blast bones has 2.5 sec delay and will hit at the same time as the other 2 attacks. Every skill has a global cooldown of 1 second and cannot be bypassed by any amount of pressing one of the fore mentioned "high priority actions".

By all means nerf light attack damage, but the divide will continue to exist until ZOS own's this mechanic and teaches it to their player base.

relentless_turnip · April 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

show previous quotes

Knowledge wrote: »

Most MMORPGs, even similar ones like Guild Wars 2, use a Global Cooldown. I believe it's referred to as skill recharge in Guild Wars 2. However, this system works very well in many games and also combats lag by allowing the system to deal with less inputs. Originally, the GCD or global cool down was added to early MMORPGs like EverQuest 1 and the like to deal with lag and balance the game more.

I believe with a global cool down and/or auto attacking, using what is tried-and-true, several issues can be resolved. The game will be more accessible to other players and allow other players to compete at a higher level and lag will be toned down as a result. A GCD will place less strain on the servers than button spam.

This is just my two cents.

I agree, especially at this point and seeing the proposed changes they are intending to deal with this issue, which is going to end up doing more harm to the game play than weaving and animation canceling ever did.

It's time for them to just add an auto attack. I might enjoy weaving light attacks into my attack rotations and believe it enhances the game play. But I don't like it enough to be expected to weave light attacks in between everything I do in order to maintain my resources. That's going to (and already has) get old and annoying very quickly. So if that's where they are headed with this weaving controversy you can count me out. Just add an auto attack already and be done with it.

What!? why don't we just add and auto play button?

That is how auto attack has always felt to me when i have played other MMO's.
It also require a tab targeting system.
I don't understand if you like that kind of combat play a different game.
You engage in combat constantly in an MMO and if you dislike the combat enough to want it to completely change you should definitely consider another game.

The combat in this game when it works is incredible and I know the large majority of the community agree.
If you don't please find another community, I am so tired of seeing people wanting it changed.