Wouldn't a global cool down or automatic auto attacking (like most MMORPGs) be a better solution?

Knowledge

Most MMORPGs, even similar ones like Guild Wars 2, use a Global Cooldown. I believe it's referred to as skill recharge in Guild Wars 2. However, this system works very well in many games and also combats lag by allowing the system to deal with less inputs. Originally, the GCD or global cool down was added to early MMORPGs like EverQuest 1 and the like to deal with lag and balance the game more.

I believe with a global cool down and/or auto attacking, using what is tried-and-true, several issues can be resolved. The game will be more accessible to other players and allow other players to compete at a higher level and lag will be toned down as a result. A GCD will place less strain on the servers than button spam.

This is just my two cents.

Sanguinor2

There is a global cooldown.

Epicasballs

Auto attacking only works in tab target MMOs.

ESO is an action MMO.

Stop trying to turn ESO into other games. Most people play ESO for the combat system because it's different from other MMOs. Go play WoW if you want to auto atttack.

colossalvoids

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

There is a global cooldown.

^ for some reason people forgetting it.

FakeFox

I play ESO over other MMOs because it has this system. I have played GW2 and quitted it pretty much in favour of ESO, despite it being a better game in many other aspects, because the combat is so sluggish. And don't even get me started on other ones. This is a core quality of ESO, whether you like it or not, and should not be changed six years into a well established game.

Foxic

Just here to parrot what the others have already said. For a lot of people the combat system in ESO is it's major selling point. If you like the combat in whatever other mmo you want to see them implement here, then go play that other mmo.

Knowledge

Epicasballs wrote: »

Auto attacking only works in tab target MMOs.

ESO is an action MMO.

Stop trying to turn ESO into other games. Most people play ESO for the combat system because it's different from other MMOs. Go play WoW if you want to auto atttack.

You can tab target in ESO it outlines the enemy in white and focuses it and sets it as my preferred target.

Draxys

Ironic forum name, considering the context

Knowledge

Maybe I should be more specific. I think the global cool down should be longer or each skill should have a recharge. So, perhaps 1.5s between uses or up to 2.0s.

Sanguinor2

Knowledge wrote: »

Maybe I should be more specific. I think the global cool down should be longer or each skill should have a recharge. So, perhaps 1.5s between uses or up to 2.0s.

So we cast an instant ability and cant do anything for 2 seconds? Sounds like amazing design.

Stevie6

Just add damage back into skills and items sets, then you won't have to worry about LA or HA for that matter.

Sanguinor2

Stevie6 wrote: »

Just add damage back into skills and items sets, then you won't have to worry about LA or HA for that matter.

Yeah who wants to generate ulti anyway. Totally overrated.

Knowledge

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Stevie6 wrote: »

Just add damage back into skills and items sets, then you won't have to worry about LA or HA for that matter.

Yeah who wants to generate ulti anyway. Totally overrated.

You could simply change how ultimate generates.

Vevvev

Knowledge wrote: »

You can tab target in ESO it outlines the enemy in white and focuses it and sets it as my preferred target.

That's not tab targeting. The whole tab targeting came about when people could hit the TAB button and it would target the closest enemy to you. No matter where this person went all your skills and abilities would be aimed at them. They could even hide behind their allies, go behind a tree, or do any sort of thing to try and dodge your attacks and STILL be your target.

ESO does not follow these rules. If someone gets in between you and your target that person now becomes your target. If they hide behind a rock or tree the line of sight is broken and you cannot hit them. And if they move out of the way of where you're aiming you'll lose the target and you'll miss.

ESO is very action orientated and tries to follow the Oblivion/Skyrim format of fighting while also incorporating some MMO elements. Slowing things down will not help improve the game and would drive people like myself away from it. I'm mostly a roleplayer but I occasionally PVE and PVP when I feel like it. If the combat system got dumbed down even further the only thing keeping me around would be my guild. And when they leave.... well....

TheFM

Making the servers do more unnecessary calculations will just result in even more problems. No, no, and no.

exeeter702

Vevvev wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

You can tab target in ESO it outlines the enemy in white and focuses it and sets it as my preferred target.

That's not tab targeting. The whole tab targeting came about when people could hit the TAB button and it would target the closest enemy to you. No matter where this person went all your skills and abilities would be aimed at them. They could even hide behind their allies, go behind a tree, or do any sort of thing to try and dodge your attacks and STILL be your target.

ESO does not follow these rules. If someone gets in between you and your target that person now becomes your target. If they hide behind a rock or tree the line of sight is broken and you cannot hit them. And if they move out of the way of where you're aiming you'll lose the target and you'll miss.

ESO is very action orientated and tries to follow the Oblivion/Skyrim format of fighting while also incorporating some MMO elements. Slowing things down will not help improve the game and would drive people like myself away from it. I'm mostly a roleplayer but I occasionally PVE and PVP when I feel like it. If the combat system got dumbed down even further the only thing keeping me around would be my guild. And when they leave.... well....

No offense but a tab target style mmo is not inherently dumbed down and by default inferior in anyway.

I could easily make up a mockery counter point to eso and state something like ESO is child's play compared to thos tab target mmos because you have a measly 10 abilities to work with, where in those "tab target" mmos generally 2 or 3 times that amount. Combat in those games becomes the dynamic between actions of players between wise use of which abilities to use and when, maximizing opportunities with offGCD skills and movement / los which is just as important as in an action based combat system like this.

There is nothing interesting about having your abilities eaten up by random targets and roaming pets in a crowded area when you are trying to focus a primary target, when such obstructions arent even being played around by players and are just passively influencing the fight by shear circumstance more often then not.

LiquidPony

No.

JohnOfMarkarth

Knowledge wrote: »

Most MMORPGs, even similar ones like Guild Wars 2, use a Global Cooldown. I believe it's referred to as skill recharge in Guild Wars 2. However, this system works very well in many games and also combats lag by allowing the system to deal with less inputs. Originally, the GCD or global cool down was added to early MMORPGs like EverQuest 1 and the like to deal with lag and balance the game more.

I believe with a global cool down and/or auto attacking, using what is tried-and-true, several issues can be resolved. The game will be more accessible to other players and allow other players to compete at a higher level and lag will be toned down as a result. A GCD will place less strain on the servers than button spam.

This is just my two cents.

am an avid anti-weaver... but this idea here? a big nono for me. Noticeably large global cooldown is something id like to avoid at all costs. That would slug the combat down to worm in a desert pace. I'd rather have these changes in pts rather then... this idea presented here. And am no fan of current pts changes as they do ziiiro to help anybody.

I despise animation cancelling, without exception and without anyone changing my mind for any mindbending blabberbullshite reason anyone could conjure. And think that weaving is a jolly bad *** for fun factor of the game... but i'd rather have to deal with that then snailpace. Tis why i couldnt play GW for long.

VoidCommander

Your solution, as you can see from the comments, is very controversial to players who appreciate ESO for its unique combat. I don't think changing the global cooldown will solve any problems, but here is a solution I think could help out everyone.

Auto-weaving light attacks is something that would de-insentive-ize many people to "get gud" as many forum users love to say. So, instead of making it a settings toggle or something like that, make it have an actual consequence for using it.

I'd recommend an ability to be added to the soul magic skill line that lasts for 10 seconds, costs magicka/stamina to cast depending on the morph, that will auto light attack weave for the player. Now if people want to auto light attack, they can, at the cost of an ability slot, a skill cast every 10 seconds, and the presumably costly resources of the spell. Alternatively this could be a toggled ability that uses up two skillslots (one for each bar) which would also be costly to use.

With this method, there is still PLENTY of incentive for players to learn light attack weaving on their own to maximize their effectiveness, while also decreasing the gap between top tier and low tier by a very large margin.

Knowledge

VoidCommander wrote: »

Your solution, as you can see from the comments, is very controversial to players who appreciate ESO for its unique combat. I don't think changing the global cooldown will solve any problems, but here is a solution I think could help out everyone.

Auto-weaving light attacks is something that would de-insentive-ize many people to "get gud" as many forum users love to say. So, instead of making it a settings toggle or something like that, make it have an actual consequence for using it.

I'd recommend an ability to be added to the soul magic skill line that lasts for 10 seconds, costs magicka/stamina to cast depending on the morph, that will auto light attack weave for the player. Now if people want to auto light attack, they can, at the cost of an ability slot, a skill cast every 10 seconds, and the presumably costly resources of the spell. Alternatively this could be a toggled ability that uses up two skillslots (one for each bar) which would also be costly to use.

With this method, there is still PLENTY of incentive for players to learn light attack weaving on their own to maximize their effectiveness, while also decreasing the gap between top tier and low tier by a very large margin.

Another possible solution is to make a toggle so your abilities are greyed out until you light attack and can only be used if you light attack first.

Iskiab

Best solution:
1. When you use a skill it automatically light attacks
2. Reduce the length of all animations to .6 seconds so they don’t interfere with the next skill

I can’t be the only one who never light attack weaves doing dolmens or delves.

Foxic

Iskiab wrote: »

Best solution:
1. When you use a skill it automatically light attacks
2. Reduce the length of all animations to .6 seconds so they don’t interfere with the next skill

I can’t be the only one who never light attack weaves doing dolmens or delves.

That's because overland content has been so extremely toned down that it literally doesn't matter how you play

Knowledge

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Best solution:
1. When you use a skill it automatically light attacks
2. Reduce the length of all animations to .6 seconds so they don’t interfere with the next skill

I can’t be the only one who never light attack weaves doing dolmens or delves.

That's because overland content has been so extremely toned down that it literally doesn't matter how you play

I find some of the world bosses to be challenging and group events!

idk

Knowledge wrote: »

Epicasballs wrote: »

Auto attacking only works in tab target MMOs.

ESO is an action MMO.

Stop trying to turn ESO into other games. Most people play ESO for the combat system because it's different from other MMOs. Go play WoW if you want to auto atttack.

You can tab target in ESO it outlines the enemy in white and focuses it and sets it as my preferred target.

And you know that is not the hard tab targeting they are speaking of.

Dusk_Coven

Knowledge wrote: »

I believe with a global cool down and/or auto attacking, using what is tried-and-true, several issues can be resolved. The game will be more accessible to other players and allow other players to compete at a higher level and lag will be toned down as a result. A GCD will place less strain on the servers than button spam.

There is a Global Cooldown but people get around it. Instead of enforcing it, ZOS allowed it even though in pretty much any other game, if you told someone you found a way to increase your DPS without resource cost and with negligible time, it's likely to be called out as an exploit or loophole.
For example, if you Light Attack several times in a row, each attack animates. But if you Light Attack and then use another skill, that Light Attack animation is cancelled and the skill activates right away. Why? Only ZOS knows. Or maybe not even.

Auto-attack I believe is a relic of older MMOs where automatic grinding was in effect necessary to inch up at higher levels. If we had it here, you'd probably see people just idling their toons and letting auto attack farm for them while they watch Netflix. Or not, because you can almost do the same at Alik'r Dolmens already. Just get hit by lightning and go back to Netflix.

Iskiab

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Best solution:
1. When you use a skill it automatically light attacks
2. Reduce the length of all animations to .6 seconds so they don’t interfere with the next skill

I can’t be the only one who never light attack weaves doing dolmens or delves.

That's because overland content has been so extremely toned down that it literally doesn't matter how you play

Yea, but weaving and animation cancelling gives better performance. If it was actually fun people would.

LiquidPony

Iskiab wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Best solution:
1. When you use a skill it automatically light attacks
2. Reduce the length of all animations to .6 seconds so they don’t interfere with the next skill

I can’t be the only one who never light attack weaves doing dolmens or delves.

That's because overland content has been so extremely toned down that it literally doesn't matter how you play

Yea, but weaving and animation cancelling gives better performance. If it was actually fun people would.

Just because you don't do it doesn't mean people don't do it.

I light attack weave everything I do on every character I play.

TheFM

LiquidPony wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Best solution:
1. When you use a skill it automatically light attacks
2. Reduce the length of all animations to .6 seconds so they don’t interfere with the next skill

I can’t be the only one who never light attack weaves doing dolmens or delves.

That's because overland content has been so extremely toned down that it literally doesn't matter how you play

Yea, but weaving and animation cancelling gives better performance. If it was actually fun people would.

Just because you don't do it doesn't mean people don't do it.

I light attack weave everything I do on every character I play.

Same, it doesnt matter what content I do, its just second nature and makes sense to me. And its fun to maximize performance.

katorga

People are determined to make this game as slow and easy as Warcraft. Skill cooldowns, auto attacks, cast times.

Back in the EverQuest days Complete Heal had a 10 second cast time. You had a cleric rotation, the first would start casting before the tank engaged. The second cleric would start casting a few seconds after the first, and so on through the list if clerics.

nublife01

auto attack would obliterate the combat mechanics of this game.....................................

Ankael07

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

I believe with a global cool down and/or auto attacking, using what is tried-and-true, several issues can be resolved. The game will be more accessible to other players and allow other players to compete at a higher level and lag will be toned down as a result. A GCD will place less strain on the servers than button spam.

There is a Global Cooldown but people get around it. Instead of enforcing it, ZOS allowed it even though in pretty much any other game, if you told someone you found a way to increase your DPS without resource cost and with negligible time, it's likely to be called out as an exploit or loophole.
For example, if you Light Attack several times in a row, each attack animates. But if you Light Attack and then use another skill, that Light Attack animation is cancelled and the skill activates right away. Why? Only ZOS knows. Or maybe not even.

Auto-attack I believe is a relic of older MMOs where automatic grinding was in effect necessary to inch up at higher levels. If we had it here, you'd probably see people just idling their toons and letting auto attack farm for them while they watch Netflix. Or not, because you can almost do the same at Alik'r Dolmens already. Just get hit by lightning and go back to Netflix.

Thats not going around the global cooldown its animation canceling