The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Scattered thoughts and actionnable feedback
I want to share my feedback on the game and some aspects that I feel could use some improvements. Seeing that the developpers are making a commendable effort to adress some core systems during this off-cycle experimentation, I feel this is the moment to discuss and give feedback about what feels right and what doesn't for future improvements and changes.
All of the following is of course my opinion, and maybe some of it will not be shared by the broader community, but I believe this forum is there to give actionnable and concrete feedback to the developpers and discuss it with the community so I use this opportunity to put on paper my thoughts about some of the game systems.
Note that I will not speak about the performance, desync and various game-breaking issues, not because I don't see them as a priority but because it is taken for granted that ZOS knows about those kind of issues and have demonstrated a dedicated effort to improving those as no change matters if the game is broken. I won't speak about the LA/HA change either as there are already multiple threads about this.
(We) Choose your weapon !
Eso is an Elder Scrolls, and as such, you get huge liberty and freedom about your approach to combat, your character's lore and combat style. You can be a stealth class with a big two handed sword, a staff wielding spellcaster or a unique archetype of pretty much any permutation of skills, weapons and abilities you will find in your journey in Tamriel.
You will however be severely punished by the game systems for choosing a weapon that doesnt fit a very restrictive mould. If you play magicka you shall use a staff, wether you like it or not. All other weapons are designed for stamina and are not realistically usable in any content if you are a magicka-using character. (even outdoor content will take significantly longer because of ressource starvation)
The weapon your character uses is a very important part of your character's identity as it determines your character's posture, your silhouette, hints at your combat style.
The fact that the game has 1 weapon type for all casters in the game is a severe blow to the original idea of class freedom that eso presented itself more than 5 years ago. The "Any class can play anything" did not come with the mention "As long as you are a light-wearing, staff-wielding character if you intend to use any kind of magic" and it feels to me like a unfulfilled promise and potential of The Elder Scrolls Online.
Moving away from magicka, stamina weapons also have their lot of trouble.
If you play solo for example, chasing world bosses, or soloing dungeons or any outdoor content really, playing dual-wield is a "wrong choice" in the sense that 2handers is just a superior choice.
This is due to 1 skill : Cleave (Brawler Morph) - The survivability brought by this skill is so good that there is never any reasons while playing a stamina character to opt out of 2H.
6 out of the 6 classes in the game have their recommended solo stamina build with this skill on Alcast for example, paired with reverse slide. And a quick look at build videos on youtube will show you that the 2H is the only solo option that is considered when creating a solo stamina build.
On the contrary, going into raid with a 2hander seems like a "wrong choice" because of the simple superior stat-stick effect of dual-wielding, however, not to sound too negative ,the discrepancy has been greatly alleviated by ZOS's effort to balance those in the group content of the game (Raids, dungeons).
I understand that every game will have it's "path of least resistance" or its meta as we call it, but it is not about min-maxing. I do not see how pigeonholding magicka characters into staff-wielding and stamina wielders into a specific weapon type depending on the content they face benefits the game in any way.
In the end, I feel like my weapon choice, a very important part of my character's identity is taken hostage by the developers, that I cannot meaningfully choose the weapon I use without having a huge handicap when tackling any content.
I think that the immersion is also hindered when people who come into the game with the wish to recreate a thief/rogue gameplay they experienced in other elder scrolls games and realize that the best the best weapon for sneaking around and bursting a target is a big two handed axe, or the barbarian types who have to use daggers to slay an enormous dragon.
Maybe this situation is only caused by the Brawler morph and a rework of the skill would suffice to open up options, I am not sure tho as I think the dual wielding tree is lacking in skills designed for an assassination/bursty gameplay and the 2h is bloated with them.
In the end I don't understand why weapon damage is not a universal system that affects both stamina and magicka and why it has to be divided into weapon damage and spell damage. It overloads the character sheet and it provides no real benefit, unless the devs see it being a deterrent for creativity in builds as a gain because of the cost in development that would follow on balancing around that kind of change.
I also do not understand why all weapon do not regenerate the highest maximum ressource in order to open up the freedom of the very popular various spellsword builds ideas that always existed in elder scrolls games. Are the developers afraid that casters would be compelled to use bows or something like that ? Is it really a risk worse than forcing casters to only ever use one weapon type ?
Potions or the tale of the magic bladder
Potions are a very important part of fantasy RPG folklore, you cannot have a RPG without it, it's foolish to try. Elder scrolls is therefore no exception and it has a huge variety of potions and poisons to use as a mean to gain all sort of bonuses that only the most masterful alchemist know the secret of.
The way ESO handles its potion is a bit of a mistery to me, the fact that potion are a 45 second buff that needs to be reapplied every 45 seconds while engaged in combat and nothing else doesn't strike me as very elegant design. When you see classes like necromancer who don't have access to major brutality lose 27% weapon damage unless they press a gold-costing button every 45 seconds I don't feel like the potion system has a meaningful place in the game. Yes there are choice in potions, but really it affects the color of the icon and the price of the button you will mindlessly press every 45 seconds while engaged in combat.
Maybe I'm alone on this, is there a reason why buffing potions don't last 30, 60 or even 120 minutes ? Is it because it creates a constant drain on the gold of players to force them to interract with the economy and crafting ? Wouldnt that still be true with 60 minute potions ?
The potion system feels like a tax on playing the game that does not feel very rewarding nor skillful in the end. Plus, my character's bladder cannot take it anymore.
The Bash Weaving
Who is for bashweaving really ? Who believes that bash weaving is an exciting part of ESO combat ? I think devs should take the time to kick this one out of the realm of possibilities altogether. Bash-weaving is a simple keybind change on PC, on console I believe it's a nightmare to execute, but even on PC it doesn't bring anything interesting in term of gameplay that light weaving doesn't accomplish too. Maybe at most some skills could have it as a specificity (like some skills can be dodge-weaved, or weaponswap-weaved). But the general superiority of bashweaving to lightweaving is counterintuitive, clunky and artificially increase the skillgap for no apparent reason, especially in the light of the recent PTS experimentation designed to tackle the skill-gap issue.
The masterrace dillema or Harmonize Versus Homongenize
A lot of systems in ESO have been harmonized, the leveling experience, the damage calculations, the new class skill-lines. And while there is a risk in homogenizing the game and forcing players to metaslave their way into the top, I believe the direction that ESO is taking is the right one and I want to commend the devs for their particular attention to a harmonious experience across the board. There is no "This spell does X damage in PvP and Y in PvE", no bloated tooltips with situational usages.
In the realm of homogenize versus harmoize, the racial situation is a huge problem for me. I have no qualm about races having specificity and feel different, I think it's actually an asset of the fantasy genre. When it translates to performance-increases, developpers must tread carefully and I think the current racial situation is counter-productive and worse than ZOS realizes.
First to address the scale of the performance gap. I want to concede that a small situational difference is fine, but I want to argue that the difference is not small nor situational.
Reflecting on the data provided in an earlier stage of the game : or at the time of 4.3.3 changes
For example, the Difference in damage between an Orc and a Breton for a stamina build has historically been between 3% and 10%. To me, and maybe I'm an extremist here but any difference above the ~1% threshold is unacceptable. People downplay 5% as in "It's marginal and unless you are minmaxxing it doesnt matter", I disagree. Let me put it more practically :
Look at your parser (Exemple of parse from t3hasiangod )
And look the damage share of your skills, you will notice that most of them account for between 3% and 10% of your damage. You see my point, in practice, being an orc is akin to having a 6th slot on your bar compared to a breton as a stamina user in terms of performance. Would you be fine with a race that has an additionnal slot on their main bar ? Would you not feel compelled to play this race even it was the most unappealing race to you ?
The stretch of this performance differencial is just way too much as illustrated by a player like me, who isnt necessarily a min-maxer feels compelled to let go of the character I want to make in favor of the character I should make, it is not a great feeling.
NOW, I believe the removal of racials or their homogenization is NOT the solution. Races should be harmonized. I believe they should however be restricted to aspects of the game that either do not affect performance, or affect it in peripheral ways as to not being able to determine a clear "winner". The first racial in the racial skill-line is the design to replicate in my opinion. +50% swimspeed for argonian is a fine racial, it captures the theme of the race and introduces a practical use of their specificity. All racials should be like this. Why not Khajiit reduce fall damage by 50%, orcs have a 10/20% chance to recuperate some of the materials used for a craft or Imperial have a +5/10% mountspeed/movespeed in cities.
I understand the trepidations of people who want to retain core old-school RPG elements, I still think the cosmetic preference about your character's look should not carry a performance tax with it.
I'm sure the loremasters and creators of ZOS could cook up some great racials that make you both feel like you are unique and happy to have those particularities while not make others feel like they miss out on combat performance because they are a khajiit healer.
Edited by drokisannathb16_ESO on March 30, 2020 12:41AM All of the following is of course my opinion, and maybe some of it will not be shared by the broader community, but I believe this forum is there to give actionnable and concrete feedback to the developpers and discuss it with the community so I use this opportunity to put on paper my thoughts about some of the game systems.
Note that I will not speak about the performance, desync and various game-breaking issues, not because I don't see them as a priority but because it is taken for granted that ZOS knows about those kind of issues and have demonstrated a dedicated effort to improving those as no change matters if the game is broken. I won't speak about the LA/HA change either as there are already multiple threads about this.
(We) Choose your weapon !
Eso is an Elder Scrolls, and as such, you get huge liberty and freedom about your approach to combat, your character's lore and combat style. You can be a stealth class with a big two handed sword, a staff wielding spellcaster or a unique archetype of pretty much any permutation of skills, weapons and abilities you will find in your journey in Tamriel.
You will however be severely punished by the game systems for choosing a weapon that doesnt fit a very restrictive mould. If you play magicka you shall use a staff, wether you like it or not. All other weapons are designed for stamina and are not realistically usable in any content if you are a magicka-using character. (even outdoor content will take significantly longer because of ressource starvation)
The weapon your character uses is a very important part of your character's identity as it determines your character's posture, your silhouette, hints at your combat style.
The fact that the game has 1 weapon type for all casters in the game is a severe blow to the original idea of class freedom that eso presented itself more than 5 years ago. The "Any class can play anything" did not come with the mention "As long as you are a light-wearing, staff-wielding character if you intend to use any kind of magic" and it feels to me like a unfulfilled promise and potential of The Elder Scrolls Online.
Moving away from magicka, stamina weapons also have their lot of trouble.
If you play solo for example, chasing world bosses, or soloing dungeons or any outdoor content really, playing dual-wield is a "wrong choice" in the sense that 2handers is just a superior choice.
This is due to 1 skill : Cleave (Brawler Morph) - The survivability brought by this skill is so good that there is never any reasons while playing a stamina character to opt out of 2H.
6 out of the 6 classes in the game have their recommended solo stamina build with this skill on Alcast for example, paired with reverse slide. And a quick look at build videos on youtube will show you that the 2H is the only solo option that is considered when creating a solo stamina build.
On the contrary, going into raid with a 2hander seems like a "wrong choice" because of the simple superior stat-stick effect of dual-wielding, however, not to sound too negative ,the discrepancy has been greatly alleviated by ZOS's effort to balance those in the group content of the game (Raids, dungeons).
I understand that every game will have it's "path of least resistance" or its meta as we call it, but it is not about min-maxing. I do not see how pigeonholding magicka characters into staff-wielding and stamina wielders into a specific weapon type depending on the content they face benefits the game in any way.
In the end, I feel like my weapon choice, a very important part of my character's identity is taken hostage by the developers, that I cannot meaningfully choose the weapon I use without having a huge handicap when tackling any content.
I think that the immersion is also hindered when people who come into the game with the wish to recreate a thief/rogue gameplay they experienced in other elder scrolls games and realize that the best the best weapon for sneaking around and bursting a target is a big two handed axe, or the barbarian types who have to use daggers to slay an enormous dragon.
Maybe this situation is only caused by the Brawler morph and a rework of the skill would suffice to open up options, I am not sure tho as I think the dual wielding tree is lacking in skills designed for an assassination/bursty gameplay and the 2h is bloated with them.
In the end I don't understand why weapon damage is not a universal system that affects both stamina and magicka and why it has to be divided into weapon damage and spell damage. It overloads the character sheet and it provides no real benefit, unless the devs see it being a deterrent for creativity in builds as a gain because of the cost in development that would follow on balancing around that kind of change.
I also do not understand why all weapon do not regenerate the highest maximum ressource in order to open up the freedom of the very popular various spellsword builds ideas that always existed in elder scrolls games. Are the developers afraid that casters would be compelled to use bows or something like that ? Is it really a risk worse than forcing casters to only ever use one weapon type ?
Potions or the tale of the magic bladder
Potions are a very important part of fantasy RPG folklore, you cannot have a RPG without it, it's foolish to try. Elder scrolls is therefore no exception and it has a huge variety of potions and poisons to use as a mean to gain all sort of bonuses that only the most masterful alchemist know the secret of.
The way ESO handles its potion is a bit of a mistery to me, the fact that potion are a 45 second buff that needs to be reapplied every 45 seconds while engaged in combat and nothing else doesn't strike me as very elegant design. When you see classes like necromancer who don't have access to major brutality lose 27% weapon damage unless they press a gold-costing button every 45 seconds I don't feel like the potion system has a meaningful place in the game. Yes there are choice in potions, but really it affects the color of the icon and the price of the button you will mindlessly press every 45 seconds while engaged in combat.
Maybe I'm alone on this, is there a reason why buffing potions don't last 30, 60 or even 120 minutes ? Is it because it creates a constant drain on the gold of players to force them to interract with the economy and crafting ? Wouldnt that still be true with 60 minute potions ?
The potion system feels like a tax on playing the game that does not feel very rewarding nor skillful in the end. Plus, my character's bladder cannot take it anymore.
The Bash Weaving
Who is for bashweaving really ? Who believes that bash weaving is an exciting part of ESO combat ? I think devs should take the time to kick this one out of the realm of possibilities altogether. Bash-weaving is a simple keybind change on PC, on console I believe it's a nightmare to execute, but even on PC it doesn't bring anything interesting in term of gameplay that light weaving doesn't accomplish too. Maybe at most some skills could have it as a specificity (like some skills can be dodge-weaved, or weaponswap-weaved). But the general superiority of bashweaving to lightweaving is counterintuitive, clunky and artificially increase the skillgap for no apparent reason, especially in the light of the recent PTS experimentation designed to tackle the skill-gap issue.
The masterrace dillema or Harmonize Versus Homongenize
A lot of systems in ESO have been harmonized, the leveling experience, the damage calculations, the new class skill-lines. And while there is a risk in homogenizing the game and forcing players to metaslave their way into the top, I believe the direction that ESO is taking is the right one and I want to commend the devs for their particular attention to a harmonious experience across the board. There is no "This spell does X damage in PvP and Y in PvE", no bloated tooltips with situational usages.
In the realm of homogenize versus harmoize, the racial situation is a huge problem for me. I have no qualm about races having specificity and feel different, I think it's actually an asset of the fantasy genre. When it translates to performance-increases, developpers must tread carefully and I think the current racial situation is counter-productive and worse than ZOS realizes.
First to address the scale of the performance gap. I want to concede that a small situational difference is fine, but I want to argue that the difference is not small nor situational.
Reflecting on the data provided in an earlier stage of the game : or at the time of 4.3.3 changes
For example, the Difference in damage between an Orc and a Breton for a stamina build has historically been between 3% and 10%. To me, and maybe I'm an extremist here but any difference above the ~1% threshold is unacceptable. People downplay 5% as in "It's marginal and unless you are minmaxxing it doesnt matter", I disagree. Let me put it more practically :
Look at your parser (Exemple of parse from t3hasiangod )
And look the damage share of your skills, you will notice that most of them account for between 3% and 10% of your damage. You see my point, in practice, being an orc is akin to having a 6th slot on your bar compared to a breton as a stamina user in terms of performance. Would you be fine with a race that has an additionnal slot on their main bar ? Would you not feel compelled to play this race even it was the most unappealing race to you ?
The stretch of this performance differencial is just way too much as illustrated by a player like me, who isnt necessarily a min-maxer feels compelled to let go of the character I want to make in favor of the character I should make, it is not a great feeling.
NOW, I believe the removal of racials or their homogenization is NOT the solution. Races should be harmonized. I believe they should however be restricted to aspects of the game that either do not affect performance, or affect it in peripheral ways as to not being able to determine a clear "winner". The first racial in the racial skill-line is the design to replicate in my opinion. +50% swimspeed for argonian is a fine racial, it captures the theme of the race and introduces a practical use of their specificity. All racials should be like this. Why not Khajiit reduce fall damage by 50%, orcs have a 10/20% chance to recuperate some of the materials used for a craft or Imperial have a +5/10% mountspeed/movespeed in cities.
I understand the trepidations of people who want to retain core old-school RPG elements, I still think the cosmetic preference about your character's look should not carry a performance tax with it.
I'm sure the loremasters and creators of ZOS could cook up some great racials that make you both feel like you are unique and happy to have those particularities while not make others feel like they miss out on combat performance because they are a khajiit healer.
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