Avoid a bashweave meta for the sake of consoles

cheemers

If the light attack changes allowing improved sustain make everyone into obligate light-skill-bash weavers, have a thought for all of us poor sods on console who can't uncouple bash as a separate command from block+hit. On ps4 you are forced to press L2 then R2 to bash, and that split second of blocking is enough to cause you to miss your stam regen tick. This is a big difference compared to PC where you can bash without blocking. This will result in notable differences between optimal set ups for the different platforms.

Also, if bashweaving becomes mandatory to make up for lower light damage but higher sustain from lights, it also forces everyone including magicka builds into playing at melee range from enemies. This further stifles build and play style diversity.

Skjaldbjorn

cheemers wrote: »

If the light attack changes allowing improved sustain make everyone into obligate light-skill-bash weavers, have a thought for all of us poor sods on console who can't uncouple bash as a separate command from block+hit. On ps4 you are forced to press L2 then R2 to bash, and that split second of blocking is enough to cause you to miss your stam regen tick. This is a big difference compared to PC where you can bash without blocking. This will result in notable differences between optimal set ups for the different platforms.

Also, if bashweaving becomes mandatory to make up for lower light damage but higher sustain from lights, it also forces everyone including magicka builds into playing at melee range from enemies. This further stifles build and play style diversity.

This is my chief concern as a PC player. Everyone is focused on the direct drawbacks of the proposed changes, but to me, the two most critical, damning results from these changes would be the bash meta and the racial imbalance.

Gnortranermara

Bash weaving for damage should not be a thing.

ATreeGnome

cheemers wrote: »

If the light attack changes allowing improved sustain make everyone into obligate light-skill-bash weavers, have a thought for all of us poor sods on console who can't uncouple bash as a separate command from block+hit. On ps4 you are forced to press L2 then R2 to bash, and that split second of blocking is enough to cause you to miss your stam regen tick. This is a big difference compared to PC where you can bash without blocking. This will result in notable differences between optimal set ups for the different platforms.

Also, if bashweaving becomes mandatory to make up for lower light damage but higher sustain from lights, it also forces everyone including magicka builds into playing at melee range from enemies. This further stifles build and play style diversity.

The increase in relative power of bash weaving is definitely one of the worst side effects of the proposed changes. Even on PC it just doesn't feel fun, it's far more intimidating for new players to learn that light attack weaving, and it just doesn't make sense for a defensive utility ability to do more DPS than light attacks, like it does on the PTS. I'm fine with light attacks getting a bit of a nerf and heavy attacks getting a significant buff, but a heavy nerf to bash weaving will be one of the best ways to reduce the skill gap without having a negative effect on low/mid DPS players. Maarselok already gives players enough of a reward for being able to bash weave, just add a magicka version and gut the direct DPS gain damage builds can get from bash weaving.

robpr

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Bash weaving for damage should not be a thing.

Bash weaving should not be a thing for anything. Bash should be just for interrupting only, not spamming. But they had to sell those Pummeling Goliath ganking style somehow.

LadyNalcarya

ATreeGnome wrote: »

cheemers wrote: »

If the light attack changes allowing improved sustain make everyone into obligate light-skill-bash weavers, have a thought for all of us poor sods on console who can't uncouple bash as a separate command from block+hit. On ps4 you are forced to press L2 then R2 to bash, and that split second of blocking is enough to cause you to miss your stam regen tick. This is a big difference compared to PC where you can bash without blocking. This will result in notable differences between optimal set ups for the different platforms.

Also, if bashweaving becomes mandatory to make up for lower light damage but higher sustain from lights, it also forces everyone including magicka builds into playing at melee range from enemies. This further stifles build and play style diversity.

The increase in relative power of bash weaving is definitely one of the worst side effects of the proposed changes. Even on PC it just doesn't feel fun, it's far more intimidating for new players to learn that light attack weaving, and it just doesn't make sense for a defensive utility ability to do more DPS than light attacks, like it does on the PTS. I'm fine with light attacks getting a bit of a nerf and heavy attacks getting a significant buff, but a heavy nerf to bash weaving will be one of the best ways to reduce the skill gap without having a negative effect on low/mid DPS players. Maarselok already gives players enough of a reward for being able to bash weave, just add a magicka version and gut the direct DPS gain damage builds can get from bash weaving.

I agree. I think its fine where it is - as an extra layer of complexity that allows you to reach the absolute highest dps. But it's not a secret that ESO is a very laggy and unreliable game, so if this becomes necessary to reach decent dps, it would exclude a lot of players and essentially just widen the skill gap between "elite" and "average".

validifyedneb18_ESO

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Bash weaving for damage should not be a thing.

This ^

Its far from a fun way to play, it it becomes meta all it will mean is myself and tonnes of others fall behind the meta because we stubbornly refuse to do it.

(Not to mention its already busted for burst in PVP)

Katahdin

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Bash weaving for damage should not be a thing.

I agree, its the stupidest thing ever for damage.

They should lower the damage of bashing by 75%, not lower LA by 78%, but something like 20%-30%
Increase the damage of skills, you know the things that are SUPPOSED to do damage?

Heavy attack should do a lot of damage but for the Love of God dont make people go to a heavy attack rotation to do high dps either

paulychan

I thought this game was unique in its approach to combat and sustain. Heavy attacks granting resources back was, I'll admit, a hard thing to adjust to. Most games run the opposite rules for sustain, but i adjusted. When it came time to parse dps to get some trial roster spots, I learned ani cancelling and weaving... on console. So now, let's see, so now it will be like other games. And why? Skill gap? I call shenanigans on that. It's a performance issue that's being addressed. So be it, just don't play nap time on bash damage or the new meta will as anti console as you can get. It's tough enough weaving with all the crazy lag. Now we get to bash weave? A skill that works differently on console than pc? Where you scoring weed cause I want in

Fur_like_snow

Looking forward too it. Once upon a time i would HA heroic bash weave into take flight. It’s coming BACK BABY. [snip]

[edited for baiting comment]

SidraWillowsky

Bash weaving is ridiculously stupid. Maybe I'm a hypocrite for saying that while supporting LA weaving, but I'm not going to bash weave even if it becomes the new meta.

With the changes to LAs and a bunch of CP into the perk that decreases the cost of bashing, I can bash endlessly in the PTS on a 6 mil dummy. It'll be even worse with trial dummy buffs. I actually think that they've made it so we over-sustain in the PTS... No thought needs to be put into sustain as you hear up and allocate CP (at least on a stam char) because it's damn near impossible to run out of stam.

How about move the bash decrease thing out of the green CP trees and into the red ones and/or into the SnB weapon passives?

John_Falstaff

I mean, when ZOS gutted Low Slash and Puncture something fierce, they buffed Power Bash instead, so... in their mind, su-u-urely they consider smacking people with a shield to be the ultimate damage dealing skill.

@SidraWillowsky , I think it's a half-measure. They should just roll-back all the changes. Simply because it's unhealthy when bashing someone with a shield does more damage than slashing them with a sword or shooting a fireball at them, plain like that. Making it cost prohibitively more doesn't take the weird out of whole this gimmicky update, not in the slightest.

Charon_on_Vacation

i'm quite sure if bash weaving will give any advantage with the new idea of LA/HA, ZOS will nerf the damage and say something like "not intended for damage, etc.", so you should be fine.

Tannus15

bashing should only do damage if you have a shield.

Olauron

Ideally there should be possible to bash only when there is something to be interrupted. This is not block that somebody will place in advance to mitigate damage from future attack. If there is nothing to interrupt then bash should not start at all no matter how many times you press buttons.

Vaoh

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Bash weaving for damage should not be a thing.

^^
It’s weird, looks ugly, and feels bad in gameplay. Regular LA weaving improves the fluidity of combat - bashweaving does not and it forces melee range. Plus console can lose regen ticks this way.

Maybe bashing could scale from max health instead so the dps increase isn’t worth it?

kojou

I would not shed any tears if bash weaving went away completely.

MurderMostFoul

Olauron wrote: »

Ideally there should be possible to bash only when there is something to be interrupted. This is not block that somebody will place in advance to mitigate damage from future attack. If there is nothing to interrupt then bash should not start at all no matter how many times you press buttons.

You should be able to bash air, but make it only do damage if you interrupt something.

ZeroXFF

Vaoh wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Bash weaving for damage should not be a thing.

^^
It’s weird, looks ugly, and feels bad in gameplay. Regular LA weaving improves the fluidity of combat - bashweaving does not and it forces melee range. Plus console can lose regen ticks this way.

Maybe bashing could scale from max health instead so the dps increase isn’t worth it?

I agree that bash weaving is bad, but LA weaving does NOT improve fluidity in the slightest. If anything, it makes your character look like it has a spasm.

mairwen85

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Bash weaving for damage should not be a thing.

^^
It’s weird, looks ugly, and feels bad in gameplay. Regular LA weaving improves the fluidity of combat - bashweaving does not and it forces melee range. Plus console can lose regen ticks this way.

Maybe bashing could scale from max health instead so the dps increase isn’t worth it?

I agree that bash weaving is bad, but LA weaving does NOT improve fluidity in the slightest. If anything, it makes your character look like it has a spasm.

Not if you're doing it right.

Skjaldbjorn

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

How about move the bash decrease thing out of the green CP trees and into the red ones and/or into the SnB weapon passives?

Actually, that's a great idea, but not red. It should transition to blue CP. Tanks could afford to put quite a bit into it at no real loss, while DPS would be crippled by reducing the cost of their bashes.