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ESO Logs - Are you kidding me?

  • Asardes
    Asardes
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    IMO showing everyone's DPS should be part of the base game UI. I've seen so many entitled people wanting to be carried in really hard DLC dungeons, that it will help to filter them out more easily.
    Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
    vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor

    PC-EU CP 3000+
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    Characters:
    Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |
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  • JanTanhide
    JanTanhide
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    Seriously, no one cares what your DPS, Gear or Skills are.

    Relax and play the game. Geez.
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  • Fur_like_snow
    Fur_like_snow
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    Oh my OP you didn’t upgrade that gear to gold yet? And those sets you’re wearing! Let’s not even talk about your DPS in that last normal raid...
    Edited by Fur_like_snow on March 26, 2020 8:49PM
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  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
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    Aznarb wrote: »
    mikemacon wrote: »
    ESO Logs is actually a pretty useful tool...that most people completely ignore other than the DPS stats.

    If they did pay attention to the Logs, they’d stop putting lightning staves on tanks.

    @mikemacon Interesting. Why shouldn’t tanks use Lightning Staves?

    I would guess that ;
    Since the nerf on Off-Balance uptime on PvE, with 1 lightning staff user + shock glyph gonna have easily the max uptime on off-balance.
    And since warden, necro and nb can have a 100% or close uptime on minor vulnerability, you don't need more of this too.

    @Aznarb Yes, all of that is true. I believe the one Lightning Staff is best used by the tank in most scenarios, and they can apply Infused Crusher on cooldown with Blockade of Storms. That frees up DPS and healers to use the vastly superior Wall of Fire.

    Yup exactly.
    Tbh as long as you've infused crusher + infused shock on the group it's ok.
    The reste is more about group optimisation.
    [ PC EU ]

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  • Erelah
    Erelah
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    REMEMBER THIS?

    Are you kidding me @ZOS? I came back to ESO just to find out that everyone can not only see my DPS, but also what gear I'm wearing, what my bars are, what food I use, and so on. Have you not learned from the past at all?

    The "appear anonymously" function is completely useless. How does it change anything if in a dungeon or raid, some elitist scumbag can instantly tell I'm "Anonymous123" and my DPS is 5% below Alcast's, so I'm not worth his nMOL group and should be kicked?

    There are already tons of addons in place to track everything you want to. Just share your Combat Metrics parses if you're so eager to compare your e-peens. Seriously, who in their right mind thought it would be a great idea to implement this "Hey 99% of ESO players, *** you!" function?

    No wonder Zenimax keeps making losses. You wanna carry to hardcore gamers like WoW does? Well, bring on the appropriate content and performance. Somehow ZOS seems to forget that the largest piece of their revenues comes from casual players.

    I apologize for the rant, but this is really pissing me off.

    ESO doesnt control add ons that 3rd parties make and put out for use. If you'd prefer an experience where your gear, stats, etc. don't matter and you're afraid of people seeing your dps I've heard great things about the new Animal Crossing. That might be more your speed.

    Also WoW hasn't catered to hardcore players since WotLK and it wasn't even doing it well back then so stop with the crap comparisons. They stopped catering to the hardcore crowd after Burning Crusade, it's what made me quit WoW.

    ESO tailor made it so their servers links up to it. They control 100% integrating this into their game. Now that I remember this exists time for me to start up a picket line.
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  • redspecter23
    redspecter23
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    If you hate logs this much, no worries. Any group that is actually using logs probably doesn't want someone along that not only has no interest in the information provided, but outright hates the idea on principle. You won't find anyone using this against you in any way unless you're in groups you shouldn't be in to begin with anyway.
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  • nud3_voxel
    nud3_voxel
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    Mate, I cannot stress this enough to you or the people complaining about logs: No one cares about your gear or DPS in any content that people pug.

    It's only used by guilds that want to recruit, optimize to improve their scores or progress through the more difficult content. And if you're in a guild that uses them and you're not happy with that then that guild is not made for you and it's time to create your own log-free raid guild.

    Truth is, now you need to pull your own weight to clear the harder content, and there are (nearly) no more 'anonymous' freebies. No one care about logs in dungeons and normal raids.
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  • ZonasArch
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    Cirantille wrote: »
    I am more concerned about people peeking into your inventory, stalking everything you loot and keep harassing you to trade.

    Standard reply to those is "I don't have the item you request". They'll say you do, you say "no, I don't". Repeat, repeat, repeat. This is a policy with me, I don't care who you are, friend or pug.

    If they look into my bag without my permission, I feel it's my divines given right to lie to their faces.
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  • FinneganFroth
    FinneganFroth
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    Shantu wrote: »
    Just look at it this way...if someone wants to bust you for your performance numbers in a log, they are probably not the kind of person you want to spend time playing a game with in the first place.

    I'm not crazy about the logs either, but when you're trying to run a progression group, they can be very helpful in identifying things that need to be worked on and/or changed.

    Regardless, nothing I would spend time getting pissed about.

    Yes, this. If someone shames you, realize they're projecting and it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things (which of course, is to kill all mudcrabs).
    Edited by FinneganFroth on March 26, 2020 11:19PM
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  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    ESO logs does not collect any data from you if you do not explicitly consent to it. There was uproar on the forums until ZOS put the default to "off".

    But that doesn't mean nobody will find out anything about you. Addons that track your own DPS already give you a good idea how everyone else's damage is simply by damage percentage. Then there is also specific animations for certain sets that are giving away your information. Also, keep in mind that ESO logs only works after the content you are running is finished. There is no real time tracking.

    At the end of the day, people who want to bully others will do so whether they have that information about you or not. Decent people won't do that even with the information.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
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  • IndianaJames7
    IndianaJames7
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    ZonasArch wrote: »
    Cirantille wrote: »
    I am more concerned about people peeking into your inventory, stalking everything you loot and keep harassing you to trade.

    Standard reply to those is "I don't have the item you request". They'll say you do, you say "no, I don't". Repeat, repeat, repeat. This is a policy with me, I don't care who you are, friend or pug.

    If they look into my bag without my permission, I feel it's my divines given right to lie to their faces.

    Lmao, or just say no!
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  • zvavi
    zvavi
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    ZonasArch wrote: »
    Cirantille wrote: »
    I am more concerned about people peeking into your inventory, stalking everything you loot and keep harassing you to trade.

    Standard reply to those is "I don't have the item you request". They'll say you do, you say "no, I don't". Repeat, repeat, repeat. This is a policy with me, I don't care who you are, friend or pug.

    If they look into my bag without my permission, I feel it's my divines given right to lie to their faces.

    They ain't looking into your bag, they just saw you pick it up... Seriously, the game provides the information (through API) so saying that it is without your permission is a bone you have to pick with zos, not the random person who uses the tools available to him.

    PS. They literally can see only things you pick up. They don't "open" your inventory and scroll for what they need ...
    Edited by zvavi on March 27, 2020 2:31AM
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  • SeaGtGruff
    SeaGtGruff
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    Raisin wrote: »
    Imagine thinking that ZOS caters to anyone but casual players. :D:D:D

    I imagine that ZOS caters to casual players, hardcore players, new players, veteran players, PvE players, PvP players, and all players in between. There's more potential revenue that way!

    It's kind of funny how so many players put themselves and everyone else into different camps, then say that ZOS cares only about the other camp.
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
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  • themaddaedra
    themaddaedra
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    In what world are people like OP living? In what world would someone be kicked out of anything because they do %5 less of Alcast's dps (whatever the f*** that even means)? What kind of stupid rant is this? Don't people know how many players are improving their gameplay using logs? Why are there people that are bluntantly against the idea of things that can help them get f***ing good?

    Seriously, threads like this make me rather angry. As OP mentioned themselves, %99 of this game's playerbase is casuals and there are guilds/groups for literally every f***ed up activity you can imagine. You can find guilds that don't use logs, or you can find ones who use logs to help their members improve rather than flaming them. If you don't want to bother joining guilds then you can ignore what some toxic mofo in a totally random group thinks about your dps (again, i don't even know in which world these problems exist, been around since launch and still haven't seen anyone getting flamed because they do %5 less than Alcast).

    This thread is nothing but the power of someone's imagination who probably can't pull their weight in combat and is rather ashamed because others can see it now. Well surprise, if you are doing bad, there are endless ways other than logs for people to find that out.
    Edited by themaddaedra on March 27, 2020 3:08AM
    PC|EU
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  • ZonasArch
    ZonasArch
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    zvavi wrote: »
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    Cirantille wrote: »
    I am more concerned about people peeking into your inventory, stalking everything you loot and keep harassing you to trade.

    Standard reply to those is "I don't have the item you request". They'll say you do, you say "no, I don't". Repeat, repeat, repeat. This is a policy with me, I don't care who you are, friend or pug.

    If they look into my bag without my permission, I feel it's my divines given right to lie to their faces.

    They ain't looking into your bag, they just saw you pick it up... Seriously, the game provides the information (through API) so saying that it is without your permission is a bone you have to pick with zos, not the random person who uses the tools available to him.

    PS. They literally can see only things you pick up. They don't "open" your inventory and scroll for what they need ...

    Seeing what I pick up *is* looking into my bag. There's no in between when the item isn't in the mob but not on my bag yet. Of they don't see it when I kill the mob, then it is in my bag and if they see it, that's my privacy being invaded. You can make an argument that the game "sees" me doing that in between, but still... Privacy is being invaded. The loot is mine, you have no business looking. Just ask :) if you ask "hey, does any have this item?" I always give them if I also don't want it. I'm not a hoarder.

    And I have brought this up many many times, tickets, posts and feedback, but I'm just one soul.


    ZonasArch wrote: »
    Cirantille wrote: »
    I am more concerned about people peeking into your inventory, stalking everything you loot and keep harassing you to trade.

    Standard reply to those is "I don't have the item you request". They'll say you do, you say "no, I don't". Repeat, repeat, repeat. This is a policy with me, I don't care who you are, friend or pug.

    If they look into my bag without my permission, I feel it's my divines given right to lie to their faces.

    Lmao, or just say no!

    But that's not fun! 😂
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  • witchdoctor
    witchdoctor
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    Dear OP: see that sail way, way, way, way off in the horizon? Hear that distant, distant, distant sound of a train?

    That's the boat sailing. The train leaving station.

    Since then we have learned one thing: nobody gives 2 poops about what people do in PUGs.
    Edited by witchdoctor on March 27, 2020 5:41AM
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  • DivineFirstYOLO
    DivineFirstYOLO
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    REMEMBER THIS?

    Are you kidding me @ZOS? I came back to ESO just to find out that everyone can not only see my DPS, but also what gear I'm wearing, what my bars are, what food I use, and so on. Have you not learned from the past at all?

    The "appear anonymously" function is completely useless. How does it change anything if in a dungeon or raid, some elitist scumbag can instantly tell I'm "Anonymous123" and my DPS is 5% below Alcast's, so I'm not worth his nMOL group and should be kicked?

    There are already tons of addons in place to track everything you want to. Just share your Combat Metrics parses if you're so eager to compare your e-peens. Seriously, who in their right mind thought it would be a great idea to implement this "Hey 99% of ESO players, *** you!" function?

    No wonder Zenimax keeps making losses. You wanna carry to hardcore gamers like WoW does? Well, bring on the appropriate content and performance. Somehow ZOS seems to forget that the largest piece of their revenues comes from casual players.

    I apologize for the rant, but this is really pissing me off.

    @LegendaryArcher Why don't you ask yourself how YOU can improve instead of dragging everybody who is better to your level? Logs are a valuable tool for many ppl to track their progression and locate errors.
    Removing them from ESO would be like removing the discovery of fire from human history - you want to hinder ppl from advancing only cause you have burnt your fingers?..

    ..actually.. it does make sense..to be kicked from nMOL you have to be a true neandertal.
    (it's a joke, I know neandertals lived 3m years later..)

    ooga booga elitists bad
    Zerg Squad

    Godslayer x 4


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    PC - EU

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  • zvavi
    zvavi
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    ZonasArch wrote: »
    Seeing what I pick up *is* looking into my bag. There's no in between when the item isn't in the mob but not on my bag yet. Of they don't see it when I kill the mob, then it is in my bag and if they see it, that's my privacy being invaded. You can make an argument that the game "sees" me doing that in between, but still... Privacy is being invaded. The loot is mine, you have no business looking. Just ask :) if you ask "hey, does any have this item?" I always give them if I also don't want it. I'm not a hoarder.

    And I have brought this up many many times, tickets, posts and feedback, but I'm just one soul.

    I got news for you. Their name is literally signed on the loot as well.

    More than that, some people are missing group chat, or forgetting to check if their loot has what someone needed, or already left the group. loot notifier helps bridge these cases, if it helps me give things to other people, and let's everyone gather gear more efficiently (and let's be honest, in trial with 12 people talking in chat it is easy to miss something).

    But you can keep saying that your privacy is invaded (even though their name is literally signed on the gear too) and not giving gear because of not noticing/because they used group notifier.

    I am just happy I can help more thanks to it.
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  • RefLiberty
    RefLiberty
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    Can someone please explain this thread to me, I went to Eso logs and my characters is not listed there. Why OP says different?
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  • Grianasteri
    Grianasteri
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    Not something console players have to concern themselves with, we dont have any add ons or even some of the basic quality of life features PC does.
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  • FierceSam
    FierceSam
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    Logs are great if everyone buys into it. No exceptions, no coercion.

    They’re like data on your phone - fantastic if you want it but scary as f if someone else gets to look at it. It should always be the user’s choice what and when to share their data. And always their option to refuse and revoke access to data on them.

    In addition to its benefits and there are many, ESO logs data does encourage some of the worst elitist behaviour, from meta build requirements, to set shaming, to dps comparison. Used in the wrong hands it can be a highly effective tool for bullying and harassment, and provides no safeguards for users.

    ZOS in their wisdom have seen fit to happily provide all game data to an unregulated third party and wash their hands of any responsibility.

    This and loot peaking ad ons are really quite offensive.
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  • Reverb
    Reverb
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    RefLiberty wrote: »
    Can someone please explain this thread to me, I went to Eso logs and my characters is not listed there. Why OP says different?

    @RefLiberty
    Your data is there, it’s just anonymous. It’s set to Anonymous by default and won’t record or display your character names unless you go into your game settings and enable.

    If you grouped in a dungeon with someone sharing the data they will be able to see your info when they view their own record. Sure you might be anonymous, but they’ll know that the data for the anonymous Warden is you.

    But odds are very very high that they won’t care. Pugs don’t care, randos don’t care. OP is imagining boogeymen where none exist.
    Edited by Reverb on March 27, 2020 12:32PM
    Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Insecurities of few cannot be reason to stop lot of other players from improving. If You're so affaraid that other people will see how You perform in online game then maybe online games are not for You.
    Edited by Juhasow on March 27, 2020 12:43PM
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  • ZonasArch
    ZonasArch
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    zvavi wrote: »
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    Seeing what I pick up *is* looking into my bag. There's no in between when the item isn't in the mob but not on my bag yet. Of they don't see it when I kill the mob, then it is in my bag and if they see it, that's my privacy being invaded. You can make an argument that the game "sees" me doing that in between, but still... Privacy is being invaded. The loot is mine, you have no business looking. Just ask :) if you ask "hey, does any have this item?" I always give them if I also don't want it. I'm not a hoarder.

    And I have brought this up many many times, tickets, posts and feedback, but I'm just one soul.

    I got news for you. Their name is literally signed on the loot as well.

    More than that, some people are missing group chat, or forgetting to check if their loot has what someone needed, or already left the group. loot notifier helps bridge these cases, if it helps me give things to other people, and let's everyone gather gear more efficiently (and let's be honest, in trial with 12 people talking in chat it is easy to miss something).

    But you can keep saying that your privacy is invaded (even though their name is literally signed on the gear too) and not giving gear because of not noticing/because they used group notifier.

    I am just happy I can help more thanks to it.

    You had no news for me, and you won't convince me that this is ok. It isn't. You snoop, you lose. That simple. If you ask for an item that I didn't tell you I had, you won't get the item. If I wanted to give it away, I would announce in chat. Get. The. Hint.
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  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    ZonasArch wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    Seeing what I pick up *is* looking into my bag. There's no in between when the item isn't in the mob but not on my bag yet. Of they don't see it when I kill the mob, then it is in my bag and if they see it, that's my privacy being invaded. You can make an argument that the game "sees" me doing that in between, but still... Privacy is being invaded. The loot is mine, you have no business looking. Just ask :) if you ask "hey, does any have this item?" I always give them if I also don't want it. I'm not a hoarder.

    And I have brought this up many many times, tickets, posts and feedback, but I'm just one soul.

    I got news for you. Their name is literally signed on the loot as well.

    More than that, some people are missing group chat, or forgetting to check if their loot has what someone needed, or already left the group. loot notifier helps bridge these cases, if it helps me give things to other people, and let's everyone gather gear more efficiently (and let's be honest, in trial with 12 people talking in chat it is easy to miss something).

    But you can keep saying that your privacy is invaded (even though their name is literally signed on the gear too) and not giving gear because of not noticing/because they used group notifier.

    I am just happy I can help more thanks to it.

    You had no news for me, and you won't convince me that this is ok. It isn't. You snoop, you lose. That simple. If you ask for an item that I didn't tell you I had, you won't get the item. If I wanted to give it away, I would announce in chat. Get. The. Hint.

    Luckily Your behaviour is in huge minority. Most people will give away their stuff if they don't need it and someone asked them for it because he/she had add on installed because why they wouldn't.
    Edited by Juhasow on March 27, 2020 1:03PM
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  • xaraan
    xaraan
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    IMO, any group that is going to seriously sweat you about your DPS past offering advice/help isn't going to let you run anonymous anyway (they can see this immediately with live logs) if that meant it truly blocked all your data.

    And I agree with IndianaJames for the most part. Aside from we all know there are toxic players (on both ends of the DPS spectrum), you aren't in a trial or dungeon alone. It's a team sport so-to-speak. If I'm taking time out of IRL to run with 11 others, I'd like to know they care enough to try as hard as I am, to show up on time, etc. That doesn't mean they have to do super DPS, just that they care about their build and fighting abilities and actually put effort into what they are doing with us.

    I also want to add that even before combat metrics or eso logs, we could tell who was and was not carrying their weight in a trial and putting the work in.

    And frankly, some of the groups you might run into that use metrics in a negative way aren't worth running with anyhow. Find a group that isn't like that, because if they are that toxic about elitism (or anti-elitism at the other end of the spectrum), then they are probably toxic about other things as well.
    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
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  • furiouslog
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    The information available in the encounter log is absolutely necessary for group and raid leaders to make judgement calls about performance. If you get kicked because you are clearly not contributing enough to the group to allow clearing content, you probably should get kicked. If your group leader kicks you just because you are on the bottom but you have no issues contributing to clearing content, then you just have a bad leader.
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  • ZonasArch
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    Seeing what I pick up *is* looking into my bag. There's no in between when the item isn't in the mob but not on my bag yet. Of they don't see it when I kill the mob, then it is in my bag and if they see it, that's my privacy being invaded. You can make an argument that the game "sees" me doing that in between, but still... Privacy is being invaded. The loot is mine, you have no business looking. Just ask :) if you ask "hey, does any have this item?" I always give them if I also don't want it. I'm not a hoarder.

    And I have brought this up many many times, tickets, posts and feedback, but I'm just one soul.

    I got news for you. Their name is literally signed on the loot as well.

    More than that, some people are missing group chat, or forgetting to check if their loot has what someone needed, or already left the group. loot notifier helps bridge these cases, if it helps me give things to other people, and let's everyone gather gear more efficiently (and let's be honest, in trial with 12 people talking in chat it is easy to miss something).

    But you can keep saying that your privacy is invaded (even though their name is literally signed on the gear too) and not giving gear because of not noticing/because they used group notifier.

    I am just happy I can help more thanks to it.

    You had no news for me, and you won't convince me that this is ok. It isn't. You snoop, you lose. That simple. If you ask for an item that I didn't tell you I had, you won't get the item. If I wanted to give it away, I would announce in chat. Get. The. Hint.

    Luckily Your behaviour is in huge minority. Most people will give away their stuff if they don't need it and someone asked them for it because he/she had add on installed because why they wouldn't.

    Yeah... Not me. I'll list everything I got in chat after runs are done, and normally I don't ever want anything from trials and I give everything away. Exceeeeept if you snooped. Then it's a guaranteed no. And mind you... It's only if you snoop, and whisper "hey can I have that?".

    If you snoop and stay quiet and wait until the end and be like "did anyone get [item]?" to bait me into giving it to you, I'll give it to you. This strat works well to balance snooping and politeness.

    And finally, I've had many cases of people that whispered after snooping in the middle of the run, got a "no" for an answer and were super chill "oh, sorry, didn't mean to invade your bag." That simple... Because they were chill and apologized, they also got their stuff in the end.

    This won't change, no matter what you say. If you run with me, you gotta be civilized. Snooping is not civilized. So if you're gonna snoop, do it wisely and quietly. If you can't be civilized, be a good pretender. It works too. :)
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  • ZOS_Ragnar
    ZOS_Ragnar
    admin
    We have removed some posts from this thread that were considered to be insulting. While you don't have to agree with every idea, opinion, or suggestion you encounter on the forums, treating each other with respect goes a long way.
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    Staff Post
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    Juhasow wrote: »
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    zvavi wrote: »
    ZonasArch wrote: »
    Seeing what I pick up *is* looking into my bag. There's no in between when the item isn't in the mob but not on my bag yet. Of they don't see it when I kill the mob, then it is in my bag and if they see it, that's my privacy being invaded. You can make an argument that the game "sees" me doing that in between, but still... Privacy is being invaded. The loot is mine, you have no business looking. Just ask :) if you ask "hey, does any have this item?" I always give them if I also don't want it. I'm not a hoarder.

    And I have brought this up many many times, tickets, posts and feedback, but I'm just one soul.

    I got news for you. Their name is literally signed on the loot as well.

    More than that, some people are missing group chat, or forgetting to check if their loot has what someone needed, or already left the group. loot notifier helps bridge these cases, if it helps me give things to other people, and let's everyone gather gear more efficiently (and let's be honest, in trial with 12 people talking in chat it is easy to miss something).

    But you can keep saying that your privacy is invaded (even though their name is literally signed on the gear too) and not giving gear because of not noticing/because they used group notifier.

    I am just happy I can help more thanks to it.

    You had no news for me, and you won't convince me that this is ok. It isn't. You snoop, you lose. That simple. If you ask for an item that I didn't tell you I had, you won't get the item. If I wanted to give it away, I would announce in chat. Get. The. Hint.

    Luckily Your behaviour is in huge minority. Most people will give away their stuff if they don't need it and someone asked them for it because he/she had add on installed because why they wouldn't.

    Yeah... Not me. I'll list everything I got in chat after runs are done, and normally I don't ever want anything from trials and I give everything away. Exceeeeept if you snooped. Then it's a guaranteed no. And mind you... It's only if you snoop, and whisper "hey can I have that?".

    If you snoop and stay quiet and wait until the end and be like "did anyone get [item]?" to bait me into giving it to you, I'll give it to you. This strat works well to balance snooping and politeness.

    And finally, I've had many cases of people that whispered after snooping in the middle of the run, got a "no" for an answer and were super chill "oh, sorry, didn't mean to invade your bag." That simple... Because they were chill and apologized, they also got their stuff in the end.

    This won't change, no matter what you say. If you run with me, you gotta be civilized. Snooping is not civilized. So if you're gonna snoop, do it wisely and quietly. If you can't be civilized, be a good pretender. It works too. :)

    It's nice You have Your own set of rules but sorry , nobody cares about them. You give stuff away or don't. Why is not others people interrest. As for civilized/uncivilised behaviors You defined them for Yourself. So what is civilized for You may be not civilized for others. There is no code that would define from above what is good and what is bad in giving stuff away in online game. There can be people that will call You uncivilised. At the end most of people doesn't care.
    Edited by Juhasow on March 27, 2020 2:14PM
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