Just make a new game called Elder Scrolls Online: The Beginners Edition

SummerNights91

HA/LA really? To big of a skill gap, really? Stop catering to new players before you lose everyone that has played this game since day 1. The changes you have made to animation canceling, because people cant learn to do it, is ridiculous. Now these changes.... just stop. You're literally messing up the game... well honestly who knows if it can even be fixed at this point.

Constantly catering to the new gen of players

Why dont you re work the cp tree like you said you were going to do.... or why not just go back to v16 ranks and do away with it all together. The game was way better back then. You'll never see a noticable difference in balance or any of it until you re work cp.

actosh

any ggood new themepark mmo coming out soon?

justaquickword

Yeah. Sod all those dirty stinking casuals and those new players with all their untapped revenue streams.

Who needs them right?

🙄

SummerNights91

justaquickword wrote: »

Yeah. Sod all those dirty stinking casuals and those new players with all their untapped revenue streams.

Who needs them right?

🙄

Nobody said they dont need them... but they can learn to play the game just like everyone else. If they cant animation cancel or light attack weave then they need to keep practicing. Learn to play the game... or just get handed the game and be able to do all the content by the dev's. I remember working hard to get the sets I wanted in this game... grinding for months to get the helmet I needed from a dungeon. I remember going into cyrodill and fighting people better then me and dying a lot but I got better. That's what makes a game fun.

pma_pacifier

SummerNights91 wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yeah. Sod all those dirty stinking casuals and those new players with all their untapped revenue streams.

Who needs them right?

🙄

Nobody said they dont need them... but they can learn to play the game just like everyone else. If they cant animation cancel or light attack weave then they need to keep practicing. Learn to play the game... or just get handed the game and be able to do all the content by the dev's. I remember working hard to get the sets I wanted in this game... grinding for months to get the helmet I needed from a dungeon. I remember going into cyrodill and fighting people better then me and dying a lot but I got better. That's what makes a game fun.

Whatever feedback I see now are disappointing. You’re all baited badly. All the feedback so far like yours has been to agree on ZOS own premise that new players will need to learn light Attack weaving to be able to play the game. When in actual fact, it’s not required, and WHEN it’s required, you’re probably not doing it for any casual content. What’s the added irony? It doesn’t seem to be achieving the effects of making it more beginner friendly with lower skill ceiling/gaps because they are practically nerfing Dps potential while vet content difficulty remains the same.

Shouldn’t we question more on the justification?

1. How was the existence of LA Weaving been of a critical issue to warrant such massive changes?
2. How would the change effectively make it more beginner friendly? Am I able to perform as well as current meta without the need to do any LA weaving? Or is it just that other players can’t perform better and that I don’t have the opportunity to perform better hence lower skill gap and I feel better about myself because I’m satisfied that I can’t climb higher and that others can’t be better as well?

Unknown_Redemption

SummerNights91 wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yeah. Sod all those dirty stinking casuals and those new players with all their untapped revenue streams.

Who needs them right?

🙄

Nobody said they dont need them... but they can learn to play the game just like everyone else. If they cant animation cancel or light attack weave then they need to keep practicing. Learn to play the game... or just get handed the game and be able to do all the content by the dev's. I remember working hard to get the sets I wanted in this game... grinding for months to get the helmet I needed from a dungeon. I remember going into cyrodill and fighting people better then me and dying a lot but I got better. That's what makes a game fun.

Or some of us physically cant keep up with the millisecond demand of weaving. I know the game well, but my DPS is 20% lower due to military related injuries. So based on your comment, how do I improve that?

Sy1ph5

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

SummerNights91 wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yeah. Sod all those dirty stinking casuals and those new players with all their untapped revenue streams.

Who needs them right?

🙄

Nobody said they dont need them... but they can learn to play the game just like everyone else. If they cant animation cancel or light attack weave then they need to keep practicing. Learn to play the game... or just get handed the game and be able to do all the content by the dev's. I remember working hard to get the sets I wanted in this game... grinding for months to get the helmet I needed from a dungeon. I remember going into cyrodill and fighting people better then me and dying a lot but I got better. That's what makes a game fun.

Or some of us physically cant keep up with the millisecond demand of weaving. I know the game well, but my DPS is 20% lower due to military related injuries. So based on your comment, how do I improve that?

You don't. Seems a little wierd to ask a game to limit good players so your the same as them tho.

zyk

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

Or some of us physically cant keep up with the millisecond demand of weaving. I know the game well, but my DPS is 20% lower due to military related injuries. So based on your comment, how do I improve that?

I'm sorry that you have to deal with a disability. I also have health challenges that affect gaming. However, I don't think games should have higher floors and lower ceilings so everyone can win a gold star.

What's really frustrating about how ZOS continues to try to dumb down combat in ESO is that all zones are already highly accessible through the normal difficulty.

Plus this is obviously a slippery slope. Where do you draw the line? I think the most profitable audience dictates where ZOS draws the line. It's a moving target. And that's not ethical. I want the fast paced game ESO was when I bought it.

John_Falstaff

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

SummerNights91 wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yeah. Sod all those dirty stinking casuals and those new players with all their untapped revenue streams.

Who needs them right?

🙄

Nobody said they dont need them... but they can learn to play the game just like everyone else. If they cant animation cancel or light attack weave then they need to keep practicing. Learn to play the game... or just get handed the game and be able to do all the content by the dev's. I remember working hard to get the sets I wanted in this game... grinding for months to get the helmet I needed from a dungeon. I remember going into cyrodill and fighting people better then me and dying a lot but I got better. That's what makes a game fun.

Or some of us physically cant keep up with the millisecond demand of weaving. I know the game well, but my DPS is 20% lower due to military related injuries. So based on your comment, how do I improve that?

Do you play table tennis? If you do, do you keep asking ITTF to nerf it because it wouldn't let you compete with other players? And why won't you choose something else to play, something that doesn't require fine motor control? You have to accept at some points that there are games and roles that put your fingers to the test. Not a big deal if you can't excel in those.

You want to still play ESO and run PvE content? Play healer or tank. Game always needs good tanks. (Oh gee, I forgot that you now will have to light weave as a tank to get resources. ^^)

Unknown_Redemption

Sy1ph5 wrote: »

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

SummerNights91 wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yeah. Sod all those dirty stinking casuals and those new players with all their untapped revenue streams.

Who needs them right?

🙄

Nobody said they dont need them... but they can learn to play the game just like everyone else. If they cant animation cancel or light attack weave then they need to keep practicing. Learn to play the game... or just get handed the game and be able to do all the content by the dev's. I remember working hard to get the sets I wanted in this game... grinding for months to get the helmet I needed from a dungeon. I remember going into cyrodill and fighting people better then me and dying a lot but I got better. That's what makes a game fun.

Or some of us physically cant keep up with the millisecond demand of weaving. I know the game well, but my DPS is 20% lower due to military related injuries. So based on your comment, how do I improve that?

You don't. Seems a little wierd to ask a game to limit good players so your the same as them tho.

I didnt ask for the change, but the person who wrote the comment was stating everyone has an equal playing level if they just practice. And his/her tone was pretty negative. There are other things at play.

idk

SummerNights91 wrote: »

HA/LA really? To big of a skill gap, really?

Yes, really. The game's original design has heavy attacks doing more damage that light attacks. When Zos reversed that it created a greater divide between the top DPS and average DPS. Conversation on the effect it has has been discussed in top raiding groups with the consensus that that change was bad for the game. This was among those that were able to easily adjust and remain top players.

Unknown_Redemption

zyk wrote: »

Unknown_Redemption wrote: »

Or some of us physically cant keep up with the millisecond demand of weaving. I know the game well, but my DPS is 20% lower due to military related injuries. So based on your comment, how do I improve that?

I'm sorry that you have to deal with a disability. I also have health challenges that affect gaming. However, I don't think games should have higher floors and lower ceilings so everyone can win a gold star.

What's really frustrating about how ZOS continues to try to dumb down combat in ESO is that all zones are already highly accessible through the normal difficulty.

Plus this is obviously a slippery slope. Where do you draw the line? I think the most profitable audience dictates where ZOS draws the line. It's a moving target. And that's not ethical. I want the fast paced game ESO was when I bought it.

I dont think everyone should win a star either. But there are things in ESO that dont make sense. High DPS from animation cancel weaving was one of them. Those who are in the 250+ APM will still pull higher DPS (rewarded for button presses - cool) but the disparity will be gone.

zyk

idk wrote: »

SummerNights91 wrote: »

HA/LA really? To big of a skill gap, really?

Yes, really. The game's original design has heavy attacks doing more damage that light attacks. When Zos reversed that it created a greater divide between the top DPS and average DPS. Conversation on the effect it has has been discussed in top raiding groups with the consensus that that change was bad for the game. This was among those that were able to easily adjust and remain top players.

It's not like they're reversing that change though. The current proposal is a can of worms and the explicit objective seems to be to make the game easier.

I preferred the medium attack paradigm. I did not feel it was less difficult than the light attack paradigm, but it was certainly less tedious. I don't believe the proposed changes will bring the game back to the medium attack paradigm as it used to exist.

The worst part is that this effort is doomed to fail like all of the other nerf-decent-players strategies. The complexities of ESO ensure that. They're just ruining the game.

idk

zyk wrote: »

idk wrote: »

SummerNights91 wrote: »

HA/LA really? To big of a skill gap, really?

Yes, really. The game's original design has heavy attacks doing more damage that light attacks. When Zos reversed that it created a greater divide between the top DPS and average DPS. Conversation on the effect it has has been discussed in top raiding groups with the consensus that that change was bad for the game. This was among those that were able to easily adjust and remain top players.

It's not like they're reversing that change though. The current proposal is a can of worms and the explicit objective seems to be to make the game easier.

I preferred the medium attack paradigm. I did not feel it was less difficult than the light attack paradigm, but it was certainly less tedious. I don't believe the proposed changes will bring the game back to the medium attack paradigm as it used to exist.

The worst part is that this effort is doomed to fail like all of the other nerf-decent-players strategies. The complexities of ESO ensure that. They're just ruining the game.

As far as the damage component of the change, how are you suggesting it is not reversing what they did in Morrowind and since (I think they buffed LAs a second time)? If it is that HAs will not be returning resources then I would agree.

Even if the relative damage change is close to what it was a medium attack weave would be better across the board than the current design.

Granted, I have not tried out the PTS since it came back up. I also acknowledge that Zos does not always think things through very well and I think a better choice would have HAs still return resources. Maybe have the increased damage go on a curve to accommodate for the added benefit of the resource return and emphasize the medium attack a little more. idk, but that is obvious.

Still, this type of feedback should be in the official thread. That is where Zos will be looking for what we have to say. Not these side threads.

zyk

idk wrote: »

As far as the damage component of the change, how are you suggesting it is not reversing what they did in Morrowind and since (I think they buffed LAs a second time)? If it is that HAs will not be returning resources then I would agree.

I think medium attacks will be relevant again, but there is more to the changes than that and so much of the game is completely different now.

But more than that, I am focused on the words used by Gina to introduce the changes. Their ultimate goal here is to make ESO more accessible.

Outside of the ethical considerations, I think that a low floor and high ceiling is inherent to ESO's combat design. It was designed to be complex with a lot of depth. They are too focused on achieving an ideological result that goes against the grain of its design at the cost of everything else.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

We appreciate all the discussions on the test of the PTS combat changes but to consolidate all feedback into one place, we are going to close this thread down. You may continue the discussion here.

Thank you for your understanding