Doesn't this game have an msrb rating of 'M'?

dazee

"let me show you the pointy end of my sword" Random bandit in wayrest sewers

What, not even gonna take me out to dinner first?

StormeReigns

worrallj wrote: »

StormeReigns wrote: »

Just because you can doesn't mean you should, and just because you shouldn't, doesn't mean you can.

If you strictly follow the main path / quest lines. Yes it's going to be mild. Outside in many of the areas there are some serious comments and discussions made by NPCs in the middle of nowhere.

Betnikh has a NPC wander about muttering how he is going to kill the Tavern owner. Forge the will so he can take claim, and Poison a few other npcs. Ghratwood, ghettowood whateverwood near a cliff has a elf (cant remember if altmer or bosmer) wondering should he suicide or make a deadric pact to ensure his kids and wife who left him are forced to love him or be shredded into meal time bits.

Its all in the context and content. Many tongue and cheek grim, others pushing that envelope based on who the person is experiencing the situation.

Yeah, that's true, but I think some have mistook my comments as advocating that every step you take should be soaked in blood.

The spoiler section in my OP hopefully illustrates that I'm taking about a place in the game where I'd bet money that the original writer's vision involved a fairly graphic scene of violence, based on the context of what was going on. It really seemed to me that a censor of some sort had stepped in and said "we can't show something that graphic in our main questline. Replace the blood with purple light and just have the character model disappear." I could be wrong- maybe they actually did it exactly the way the writers/artists intended.

It's a matter of taste in the end, but it seems to me that if you've got the mature rating, and you've got a story moment that genuinely calls for dark imagery, you miss an opportunity when you tone it down.

Consider- the opening scene of Skyrim was one of the most iconic in video game history. It started with a bunch of prisoners being lead to the chopping block and one getting decapitated. This was the first of many graphic violence scenes in the most successful TES ever. Does ESO even have a single case of decapitation? There are NPCs executing each other left and right but they always just do the exact same stabby move and the other guy falls over usually without any blood on him. I get that not everyone wants to see the more graphic stuff, but TES players, on average, probably want some of it *when it's called for.*

Very much so. Also, if done right, less is more. Letting the viewer's/player's own imagination take over can often produce more then what is actually being suggested.

worrallj

SpaceElf wrote: »

worrallj wrote: »

StormeReigns wrote: »

Just because you can doesn't mean you should, and just because you shouldn't, doesn't mean you can.

If you strictly follow the main path / quest lines. Yes it's going to be mild. Outside in many of the areas there are some serious comments and discussions made by NPCs in the middle of nowhere.

Betnikh has a NPC wander about muttering how he is going to kill the Tavern owner. Forge the will so he can take claim, and Poison a few other npcs. Ghratwood, ghettowood whateverwood near a cliff has a elf (cant remember if altmer or bosmer) wondering should he suicide or make a deadric pact to ensure his kids and wife who left him are forced to love him or be shredded into meal time bits.

Its all in the context and content. Many tongue and cheek grim, others pushing that envelope based on who the person is experiencing the situation.

Yeah, that's true, but I think some have mistook my comments as advocating that every step you take should be soaked in blood.

The spoiler section in my OP hopefully illustrates that I'm taking about a place in the game where I'd bet money that the original writer's vision involved a fairly graphic scene of violence, based on the context of what was going on. It really seemed to me that a censor of some sort had stepped in and said "we can't show something that graphic in our main questline. Replace the blood with purple light and just have the character model disappear." I could be wrong- maybe they actually did it exactly the way the writers/artists intended.

It's a matter of taste in the end, but it seems to me that if you've got the mature rating, and you've got a story moment that genuinely calls for dark imagery, you miss an opportunity when you tone it down.

Consider- the opening scene of Skyrim was one of the most iconic in video game history. It started with a bunch of prisoners being lead to the chopping block and one getting decapitated. This was the first of many graphic violence scenes in the most successful TES ever. Does ESO even have a single case of decapitation? There are NPCs executing each other left and right but they always just do the exact same stabby move and the other guy falls over usually without any blood on him. I get that not everyone wants to see the more graphic stuff, but TES players, on average, probably want some of it *when it's called for.*

I'll be honest, the NPC you reference in the spoiler is my favorite NPC so I was glad it wasn't too graphic. Decapitation is not great to see, but it's far more 'normalized' irl than what essentially would be drawing and quartering.

Mannimarco was straight up stabbing people in the heart. It made me wince. I don't know if MMOs are different in that regard to stand-alone games, but the story hook Skyrim needed might not apply to a base that is probably already familiar with TES.

True, well said. My favorite summerset npc so far has been grog by a pretty wide margin 😂

Kiralyn2000

worrallj wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

This game is not M by design. It was rated M by the ESRB because of a few things and themes that pushed it over. While ZOS wasn't willing to or couldn't eliminate those things for a lower rating, it doesn't mean they'd take the M as a duty to go as dark and gritty as possible.

This.


Just because something is "M" rated, doesn't mean that it has to, or the devs want to, be like Game of Thrones crossed with Saw.

Yeah, that's true, but I think some have mistook my comments as advocating that every step you take should be soaked in blood.

Yeah, sorry. May have also been remembering in my head previous "this game should earn it's M rating!" comments I've seen over the years.

(Plus, well, I'd just made the mistake of looking at the Steam forums for Borderlands 3. The level of idiots over there would make anyone lose their grip. )

HorrorShow

You got the rating, run with it. Embrace the gore, sex, and violence.
Lot of opportunities there. And looking at the most popular mods for skyrim, a lot of customer demand too.

worrallj

HorrorShow wrote: »

You got the rating, run with it. Embrace the gore, sex, and violence.
Lot of opportunities there. And looking at the most popular mods for skyrim, a lot of customer demand too.

Lol from the guy named "horror show"

Nemesis7884

of course it has an m rating for MAGICAL

HorrorShow

worrallj wrote: »

HorrorShow wrote: »

You got the rating, run with it. Embrace the gore, sex, and violence.
Lot of opportunities there. And looking at the most popular mods for skyrim, a lot of customer demand too.

Lol from the guy named "horror show"

I am a completely unbiased customer merely looking out for the well being of this game. To imply I am trying to push forward some kind of agenda based solely off of my own sick and twisted desires is entirely without merit!

max_only

There are corpses that hanged themselves (a quest in Grahtwood). Corpses that were hanged or impaled by others.
Drug and alcohol use/abuse. Gambling in the game (not crown crates)
Mentions of the non consensual violent act in game books and quest dialogue (Molag Bal has a title as the god of “”)
Cannibalism, chemical warfare, slavery, attempted genocide (allegedly), npcs that offer “paid romantic encounters” (but they don’t follow through) are all in the EP main quest line.
There is an opportunity to kill someone by posing as a “pro” in Pa’alat (a small village run by a Madame).
The murder for money Dlc has already been covered.

They could do more, but for some people they’ve done more than enough.

TigressCreed

If anything it should have more R rated fun stuff hahahah it’s too tame

SeaGtGruff

I must agree with those who say that just because the game has a rating of "M" doesn't mean that the developers should be going all-out with violence, gore, sex, and other "mature" themes. In my own opinion, a lot of content that gets put into games, movies, TV shows, comics, books, etc., is added more to generate buzz through controversy, add shock value, or-- worst case scenario-- simply to pander to those people who seem to revel in that type of content. Those things do not make something "mature," especially if they're done purely for gratuitous reasons; rather, I've always thought they were immature, the type of things that young people take questionable delight in because it's "forbidden" or "naughty," and something that they hopefully grow out of once they truly become mature.

Ri_Khan

Needs more blood.

fastolfv_ESO

its M purely for skooma thats it, since its drug related it has to be M but the games as G as it gets

worrallj

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I must agree with those who say that just because the game has a rating of "M" doesn't mean that the developers should be going all-out with violence, gore, sex, and other "mature" themes. In my own opinion, a lot of content that gets put into games, movies, TV shows, comics, books, etc., is added more to generate buzz through controversy, add shock value, or-- worst case scenario-- simply to pander to those people who seem to revel in that type of content. Those things do not make something "mature," especially if they're done purely for gratuitous reasons; rather, I've always thought they were immature, the type of things that young people take questionable delight in because it's "forbidden" or "naughty," and something that they hopefully grow out of once they truly become mature.

I didn't mean to imply that an M rating meant they should cram as much hardcore content in as they could. But from an artistic standpoint, I don't understand their "censorship" choices, and usually msrb ratings are the reasons for those choices.

It was a design decision that you can walk into a camp of bandits, slaughter 50 people with a battle-axe, and not see any blood. I don't love the notion that if it were depicted with a bit more realism it would suddenly be just for shock value.

Lysette

Some countries are pretty picky when it comes to M rated stuff and they do not even agree on what they find distasteful. in some it is sexual themes or nudity, others don't care much about that, but don't like violence that much. For some alcoholic beverages are culture, for others an offense - there is simply no way to get everything M rated into the game without to get bans of the game in some countries - ZOS want to appeal to a global audience and so it won't get too "mature" ever.

Banana

It's the beast love

Monte_Cristo

Well, there is a kinky sex dungeon in Ebonheart.

Lady_Linux

just based on my observations it should be rated iM

thissocalledflower

the M rating is a marketing tool to attract young players.

mague

There are a few dialogues hinting to sex. But thats not the only reason for M

Did anyone see the cannibals, read the racist stuff and watch the slavery ? Learned about the political plots using plaque as crowd control, dictatorship etc. ? Drugs and religions ?

To be free in storytelling they had to go for M.

craybest

I don't see how racism and slavery is a reason for M rating. Disney movies have those too. I want to see more corpses in war zones rather than just skeletons in funny poses.

ProfessorKittyhawk

I feel like a lot of people here haven't paid close enough attention to some of the content in the game. There's some pretty dark, twisted stuff. Doesn't have to be super blpody and geaohoc or overly sexual. As I mentioned before, genocide/infanticide of a race, peoples eyes being gouged out and fed to a hagraven, of which theres an npc who survives and left permanently blind, not to mention the charred impaled corpses of humanoids and werewolves.

The M rating may be a light one, but it's to cover their butts in case some overly sensitive parent catches something their kid is playing and takes offense to it. Plus, what is worthy of the M rating and not is up to perspective.

HorrorShow

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I must agree with those who say that just because the game has a rating of "M" doesn't mean that the developers should be going all-out with violence, gore, sex, and other "mature" themes. In my own opinion, a lot of content that gets put into games, movies, TV shows, comics, books, etc., is added more to generate buzz through controversy, add shock value, or-- worst case scenario-- simply to pander to those people who seem to revel in that type of content. Those things do not make something "mature," especially if they're done purely for gratuitous reasons; rather, I've always thought they were immature, the type of things that young people take questionable delight in because it's "forbidden" or "naughty," and something that they hopefully grow out of once they truly become mature.

Ah I see the confusion. The M for mature in no way has anything do with the content of the game holding to the values of maturity like being responsible, making wise decisions, being resilient in the face of adversity, etc. Otherwise an NPC paying taxes would get a game rated M.

For rating purposes the term 'mature' is in reference to materials than only people who are mature would/should be able to see, experience, etc and not be made distraught/negatively affected by.

So an immature person sees someone get skinned alive and eaten by a demon, probably going to have a negative emotional impact on them. Whereas a mature person while they may or may not like seeing that, is able to handle seeing such things and not be reduced to a whimpering child.

kinguardian

I agree I would have liked it grittier as you put it. A bit more blood when fighting etc. I do not find this game for 18+ I understand they have to put that legally but I dont see it in the gameplay.

Carespanker

The M rating on this game reminds me of the guilds in zone that advertise 18+ and say "but absolutely no drama or trolling!" Like whats the point if you're just going to keep everything PG13??

worrallj

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people here haven't paid close enough attention to some of the content in the game. There's some pretty dark, twisted stuff. Doesn't have to be super blpody and geaohoc or overly sexual. As I mentioned before, genocide/infanticide of a race, peoples eyes being gouged out and fed to a hagraven, of which theres an npc who survives and left permanently blind, not to mention the charred impaled corpses of humanoids and werewolves.

The M rating may be a light one, but it's to cover their butts in case some overly sensitive parent catches something their kid is playing and takes offense to it. Plus, what is worthy of the M rating and not is up to perspective.

You certainly have a point. What I've noticed is that they are happy to have dialogue talking about bloody scenes but what you actually see tends to be sterilize quite a bit (indeed, in the aftermath of the spoiler scene I described in the OP, another NPC actually recounts the scene and describes the guy as being 'ripped apart' even though that's not what we saw. And again, hacking someone to death with a battle axe appears to be fine as long as you don't see any blood.) There are exceptions I guess, certain areas show corpses in rather gruesome states... So I guess they're also ok with 'ornamental' violence. But there's all these other places where a violent moment is playing a central role to the story and the game and it comes across (to me) as completely sanitized.

craybest

I don't remember any gruesome corpses anywhere not charred or impaled, or hanged. Where are they?

Royaji

craybest wrote: »

I don't remember any gruesome corpses anywhere not charred or impaled, or hanged. Where are they?

Pretty sure I've never seen a hanged corpse in ESO. There is a lot of charred bodies just laying on the ground or indeed impaled on pikes though. But you need a hefty bit of imagination to call them "gruesome". They just don't look that way at all.

worrallj

craybest wrote: »

I don't remember any gruesome corpses anywhere not charred or impaled, or hanged. Where are they?

Well, it's nothing too crazy. From what I remember they pretty much just look like an orange zombie, or sometimes there are bodies laying around like usual but for some reason those ones have some blood on them.

And like someone pointed out there's a quest or two where you mount a head on a pike. You don't actually decapitate the guy though you just loot his head and then when you mount it there's a head on a pike.

TheShadowScout

worrallj wrote: »

I know originally it had an M rating, did that get changed?

It originally actually had a "16" rating, which then got upped wo "18" with the justice system.
At least for those of us who have that kind of ratings...

Sooo... yeah, the rating is currently "M" - but at the lowst possible slot, so to speak.

worrallj wrote: »

Ive been questing in summerset and felt that there were scenes that seemed like they should have been a bit darker and seemed very "PG-ified."

Yeah, and sometimes its really painful.
Also, have you noticed that there are only three kinds of "corpses" in the game? "Looks like just sleeping" and "burnt husk" and "skeleton" - with none of the gritty, bloody options in between.

ArchMikem wrote: »

I believe originally ESO was Pegi 16, i think, but it changed to M to give ZOS more breathing room in content. That said, im still waiting for my nudity and suggestive themes.

More like, they had to up the rating as soon as they allowed player characters to murder innocents. Like I said above, that change DID happen, and with the refit of the justice system...

And yeah, I also wish the game pushed the upper limits of "M" rather then the lower... but eh.

worrallj wrote: »

Yeah, that's true, but I think some have mistook my comments as advocating that every step you take should be soaked in blood.

What would be the sense of that? Completely ruins the value of it when it came with every step... every swing of the sword though... that Would make sense. Killing things with a sword is a bloody business.

But... only when it fits the narrative! And maybe even only for those who really want all that lavel of grittyness.

Like has been a discussion in times long past, I for one really would -love- it is we had a -choice- to add more gore to our game, if we wanted to... pay for it.
Like: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222351/brutality-pack-concept/p1