Non-Champ Unlock = Scroll Trolls, spies and traitors. I can't take the campaign seriously anymore.

Crixus8000

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Ah....I see....now its not just about playing with your friends. Its about playing with all your friends at the same time. Even though half are DC- the other half are AD. So all you have to do is talk to your friends and you all a group decide if you want to play together pick a faction. Whats that? You dont want to, you want to swap hourly or daily to split time? Dont care that what you ask for opens the door to zone toxicity and trolling scrolls?

Of course you dont. How about this...explain how you resolve the issue with those wanting faction locks. As I see it your push is not for playing with your friends its about you and only you and what you want. Swappers constantly talk about how many want to swap without locks, and each and every time including this one the non locked tanks horribly. Its because people like you tell lies about wanting to play with friends- stomp around like children in the forums and demand the company supply you with what your little heart desires. You are special. You are.

Just like rikumaru said, people would have to delete most of thier charatcers, then re create and level them all over again to get them into one faction.

People had characters and friends on multiple alliances, then zos just decides to lock the campaigns, causing issues for many people. They could have at LEAST give people an alliance change option per character, that would have solved some of the issues at least.

Kelces

I find it ironic, that many seem to ignore the fact, that choosing a certain faction is part of the roleplaying experience, while at the same time hating on loyalty of other players and that concept in general...which happens to be another RP element.

If you are not up to this aspect, then maybe you are in the wrong type of game to begin with.

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Ah....I see....now its not just about playing with your friends. Its about playing with all your friends at the same time. Even though half are DC- the other half are AD. So all you have to do is talk to your friends and you all a group decide if you want to play together pick a faction. Whats that? You dont want to, you want to swap hourly or daily to split time? Dont care that what you ask for opens the door to zone toxicity and trolling scrolls?

Of course you dont. How about this...explain how you resolve the issue with those wanting faction locks. As I see it your push is not for playing with your friends its about you and only you and what you want. Swappers constantly talk about how many want to swap without locks, and each and every time including this one the non locked tanks horribly. Its because people like you tell lies about wanting to play with friends- stomp around like children in the forums and demand the company supply you with what your little heart desires. You are special. You are.

Just like rikumaru said, people would have to delete most of thier charatcers, then re create and level them all over again to get them into one faction.

People had characters and friends on multiple alliances, then zos just decides to lock the campaigns, causing issues for many people. They could have at LEAST give people an alliance change option per character, that would have solved some of the issues at least.

It only takes a week max now, including psijic questline even. Lame excuse, sorry.

Kadoin

Kelces wrote: »

I find it ironic, that many seem to ignore the fact, that choosing a certain faction is part of the roleplaying experience, while at the same time hating on loyalty of other players and that concept in general...which happens to be another RP element.

If you are not up to this aspect, then maybe you are in the wrong type of game to begin with.

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Ah....I see....now its not just about playing with your friends. Its about playing with all your friends at the same time. Even though half are DC- the other half are AD. So all you have to do is talk to your friends and you all a group decide if you want to play together pick a faction. Whats that? You dont want to, you want to swap hourly or daily to split time? Dont care that what you ask for opens the door to zone toxicity and trolling scrolls?

Of course you dont. How about this...explain how you resolve the issue with those wanting faction locks. As I see it your push is not for playing with your friends its about you and only you and what you want. Swappers constantly talk about how many want to swap without locks, and each and every time including this one the non locked tanks horribly. Its because people like you tell lies about wanting to play with friends- stomp around like children in the forums and demand the company supply you with what your little heart desires. You are special. You are.

Just like rikumaru said, people would have to delete most of thier charatcers, then re create and level them all over again to get them into one faction.

People had characters and friends on multiple alliances, then zos just decides to lock the campaigns, causing issues for many people. They could have at LEAST give people an alliance change option per character, that would have solved some of the issues at least.

It only takes a week max now, including psijic questline even. Lame excuse, sorry.

But it would take me months to sort my inventory.

edges_endgame

Kelces wrote: »

I find it ironic, that many seem to ignore the fact, that choosing a certain faction is part of the roleplaying experience, while at the same time hating on loyalty of other players and that concept in general...which happens to be another RP element.

If you are not up to this aspect, then maybe you are in the wrong type of game to begin with.

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Ah....I see....now its not just about playing with your friends. Its about playing with all your friends at the same time. Even though half are DC- the other half are AD. So all you have to do is talk to your friends and you all a group decide if you want to play together pick a faction. Whats that? You dont want to, you want to swap hourly or daily to split time? Dont care that what you ask for opens the door to zone toxicity and trolling scrolls?

Of course you dont. How about this...explain how you resolve the issue with those wanting faction locks. As I see it your push is not for playing with your friends its about you and only you and what you want. Swappers constantly talk about how many want to swap without locks, and each and every time including this one the non locked tanks horribly. Its because people like you tell lies about wanting to play with friends- stomp around like children in the forums and demand the company supply you with what your little heart desires. You are special. You are.

Just like rikumaru said, people would have to delete most of thier charatcers, then re create and level them all over again to get them into one faction.

People had characters and friends on multiple alliances, then zos just decides to lock the campaigns, causing issues for many people. They could have at LEAST give people an alliance change option per character, that would have solved some of the issues at least.

It only takes a week max now, including psijic questline even. Lame excuse, sorry.

Zos made that irrelevant when introducing 1T. Campaigns should be soft capped like before that.

And not everybody is vocal about faction locks. Just suck it up like I had to when I was forced to play one faction only for a while.

Morgul667

I too find there many more trolls since pc eu no co is unlocked

Im silently hoping it will go away after the trolls get their hype down

Mayrael

idk wrote: »

There are spies and traitors in all campaigns. The link below is to a recent thread and iirc it is a locked campaign.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514866/how-to-deal-with-the-spies-at-cyrodiil/p1

Pertaining to that link, being logged into multiple accounts I perfectly acceptable as long as each is controlled manually, Zos has specifically said this.

Blah blah blah... Same trash talk every time. Somehow during the whole locked period I experienced those behaviours very very very rarely, maybe once in two weeks, and surprisingly now they are back. There is a difference in effort needed to spy back then and now, then you needed to make some sacrifices, you needed to dedicate yourself to it, now you just swap chars and boom, meaning anyone can do this and as a logical outcome it will lead to increased amount of such behaviours, denying it is just a poor try to defend unlocked campaigns because of personal interests - it has nothing to do with facts.

Mayrael

idk wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I’ve never seen someone run a scroll to the opposing faction in the locked campaign. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it NOT happen in the unlocked campaign.

I have seen one or two threads on the subject here since Zos started locking some campaigns. There have been other threads where the person said people where using alts for spying and more. Ofc, they are really just speculating just as people speculated there was widespread exploiting when there were no faction locks.

Are you sure it was about locked campaigns?

ellahellabella

Kadoin wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

I find it ironic, that many seem to ignore the fact, that choosing a certain faction is part of the roleplaying experience, while at the same time hating on loyalty of other players and that concept in general...which happens to be another RP element.

If you are not up to this aspect, then maybe you are in the wrong type of game to begin with.

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Ah....I see....now its not just about playing with your friends. Its about playing with all your friends at the same time. Even though half are DC- the other half are AD. So all you have to do is talk to your friends and you all a group decide if you want to play together pick a faction. Whats that? You dont want to, you want to swap hourly or daily to split time? Dont care that what you ask for opens the door to zone toxicity and trolling scrolls?

Of course you dont. How about this...explain how you resolve the issue with those wanting faction locks. As I see it your push is not for playing with your friends its about you and only you and what you want. Swappers constantly talk about how many want to swap without locks, and each and every time including this one the non locked tanks horribly. Its because people like you tell lies about wanting to play with friends- stomp around like children in the forums and demand the company supply you with what your little heart desires. You are special. You are.

Just like rikumaru said, people would have to delete most of thier charatcers, then re create and level them all over again to get them into one faction.

People had characters and friends on multiple alliances, then zos just decides to lock the campaigns, causing issues for many people. They could have at LEAST give people an alliance change option per character, that would have solved some of the issues at least.

It only takes a week max now, including psijic questline even. Lame excuse, sorry.

But it would take me months to sort my inventory.

Don't forget horses. All my horses are 60/60/60

ellahellabella

Kelces wrote: »

I find it ironic, that many seem to ignore the fact, that choosing a certain faction is part of the roleplaying experience, while at the same time hating on loyalty of other players and that concept in general...which happens to be another RP element.

If you are not up to this aspect, then maybe you are in the wrong type of game to begin with.

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Ah....I see....now its not just about playing with your friends. Its about playing with all your friends at the same time. Even though half are DC- the other half are AD. So all you have to do is talk to your friends and you all a group decide if you want to play together pick a faction. Whats that? You dont want to, you want to swap hourly or daily to split time? Dont care that what you ask for opens the door to zone toxicity and trolling scrolls?

Of course you dont. How about this...explain how you resolve the issue with those wanting faction locks. As I see it your push is not for playing with your friends its about you and only you and what you want. Swappers constantly talk about how many want to swap without locks, and each and every time including this one the non locked tanks horribly. Its because people like you tell lies about wanting to play with friends- stomp around like children in the forums and demand the company supply you with what your little heart desires. You are special. You are.

Just like rikumaru said, people would have to delete most of thier charatcers, then re create and level them all over again to get them into one faction.

People had characters and friends on multiple alliances, then zos just decides to lock the campaigns, causing issues for many people. They could have at LEAST give people an alliance change option per character, that would have solved some of the issues at least.

It only takes a week max now, including psijic questline even. Lame excuse, sorry.

This game had no lock for 2 years. I find it Ironic that you forget that.
Perhaps if you are not up to the aspect that this game is far from competitive thanks to it's unadaptable scoring system but want something heavily competitive, you are in the wrong game to begin with.

Rianai

Mayrael wrote: »

idk wrote: »

There are spies and traitors in all campaigns. The link below is to a recent thread and iirc it is a locked campaign.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514866/how-to-deal-with-the-spies-at-cyrodiil/p1

Pertaining to that link, being logged into multiple accounts I perfectly acceptable as long as each is controlled manually, Zos has specifically said this.

Blah blah blah... Same trash talk every time. Somehow during the whole locked period I experienced those behaviours very very very rarely, maybe once in two weeks, and surprisingly now they are back. There is a difference in effort needed to spy back then and now, then you needed to make some sacrifices, you needed to dedicate yourself to it, now you just swap chars and boom, meaning anyone can do this and as a logical outcome it will lead to increased amount of such behaviours, denying it is just a poor try to defend unlocked campaigns because of personal interests - it has nothing to do with facts.

Scroll trolling happened almost daily when the campaign was locked - that's a fact (PC EU no-cp). It can't happen much more often than that. And since the campaign seems to be more balanced now, with less pvdoor and as a result - less scroll capping - there might be actually less trolling, simply because of the lack of opportunity and less boredom (and boredom is by far the most common reason for trolling, very rarely it is about helping or harming a certain faction).

And spies are completely irrelevant and the only issue are paranoid players.

(Fun fact - the only time i witnessed an actual and deliberate case of spying in ~ 3 years of PvP was during the locked time - and the spy literally had to tell me "hey i have a spy account on your faction", that's how big his impact was. Ironically the exact same player accused me of being a spy years ago, when i was completely new to the game and only had a single char, just because i was watching duels togeher with some peaceful enemies)

Qbiken

People be paranoid about spies, but fail to realise that it requires a negative amount of braincells to predict what an enemy faction will do.....

And nightcapping has more impact on the campaign outcome than some occasional dude handing over a scroll or two. If anything, the "trolls" makes thing more interesting

If it weren't for the fact that Cyrodil is almost unplayable due to ZOS amazing performance patch, I would live in nocp rigth now with it being unlocked.

ellahellabella

Qbiken wrote: »

People be paranoid about spies, but fail to realise that it requires a negative amount of braincells to predict what an enemy faction will do.....

And nightcapping has more impact on the campaign outcome than some occasional dude handing over a scroll or two. If anything, the "trolls" makes thing more interesting

If it weren't for the fact that Cyrodil is almost unplayable due to ZOS amazing performance patch, I would live in nocp rigth now with it being unlocked.

Agreed. No cp being unlocked would have brought me back if it wasn't for the performance issues rn. I'll just stick to other games for now.

Mayrael

Rianai wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

idk wrote: »

There are spies and traitors in all campaigns. The link below is to a recent thread and iirc it is a locked campaign.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514866/how-to-deal-with-the-spies-at-cyrodiil/p1

Pertaining to that link, being logged into multiple accounts I perfectly acceptable as long as each is controlled manually, Zos has specifically said this.

Blah blah blah... Same trash talk every time. Somehow during the whole locked period I experienced those behaviours very very very rarely, maybe once in two weeks, and surprisingly now they are back. There is a difference in effort needed to spy back then and now, then you needed to make some sacrifices, you needed to dedicate yourself to it, now you just swap chars and boom, meaning anyone can do this and as a logical outcome it will lead to increased amount of such behaviours, denying it is just a poor try to defend unlocked campaigns because of personal interests - it has nothing to do with facts.

Scroll trolling happened almost daily when the campaign was locked - that's a fact (PC EU no-cp). It can't happen much more often than that. And since the campaign seems to be more balanced now, with less pvdoor and as a result - less scroll capping - there might be actually less trolling, simply because of the lack of opportunity and less boredom (and boredom is by far the most common reason for trolling, very rarely it is about helping or harming a certain faction).

And spies are completely irrelevant and the only issue are paranoid players.

(Fun fact - the only time i witnessed an actual and deliberate case of spying in ~ 3 years of PvP was during the locked time - and the spy literally had to tell me "hey i have a spy account on your faction", that's how big his impact was. Ironically the exact same player accused me of being a spy years ago, when i was completely new to the game and only had a single char, just because i was watching duels togeher with some peaceful enemies)

You mistake scroll FARMING with scroll trolling. I'm playing there to and know situation perfectly fine, there was certain guild that used to ball group, they used Scrolls to farm mostly EP - THIS IS NOT THE SAME! They have fought for the scroll and used it as they wanted, we would not take it anyway.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno

But just few minutes ago on this campaign, I have killed volendrung wielder in 1v1, took the hammer to the red side, we have taken keeps, wipe all reds in temple scroll and some guy took the scroll back to Temple of the Ancestor Moths so EP could take it back. This is a fact from few minutes ago. And this is spying and scroll trolling.

Nobody, literally nobody in the game was happy about it, and things like this was not happening on daily basis as they do now when campaign was locked. It sucks the fun out of playing. I don't care about points or faction, but I care about fair play. When whole faction for half an hour fights to take the scroll and they are screwed by just one troll in a minutes this is *** not fun gameplay.

amir412

Grow up and move on, if the way others plays affect your will to play its your problem not ours.

ellahellabella

Mayrael wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

idk wrote: »

There are spies and traitors in all campaigns. The link below is to a recent thread and iirc it is a locked campaign.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514866/how-to-deal-with-the-spies-at-cyrodiil/p1

Pertaining to that link, being logged into multiple accounts I perfectly acceptable as long as each is controlled manually, Zos has specifically said this.

Blah blah blah... Same trash talk every time. Somehow during the whole locked period I experienced those behaviours very very very rarely, maybe once in two weeks, and surprisingly now they are back. There is a difference in effort needed to spy back then and now, then you needed to make some sacrifices, you needed to dedicate yourself to it, now you just swap chars and boom, meaning anyone can do this and as a logical outcome it will lead to increased amount of such behaviours, denying it is just a poor try to defend unlocked campaigns because of personal interests - it has nothing to do with facts.

Scroll trolling happened almost daily when the campaign was locked - that's a fact (PC EU no-cp). It can't happen much more often than that. And since the campaign seems to be more balanced now, with less pvdoor and as a result - less scroll capping - there might be actually less trolling, simply because of the lack of opportunity and less boredom (and boredom is by far the most common reason for trolling, very rarely it is about helping or harming a certain faction).

And spies are completely irrelevant and the only issue are paranoid players.

(Fun fact - the only time i witnessed an actual and deliberate case of spying in ~ 3 years of PvP was during the locked time - and the spy literally had to tell me "hey i have a spy account on your faction", that's how big his impact was. Ironically the exact same player accused me of being a spy years ago, when i was completely new to the game and only had a single char, just because i was watching duels togeher with some peaceful enemies)

You mistake scroll FARMING with scroll trolling. I'm playing there to and know situation perfectly fine, there was certain guild that used to ball group, they used Scrolls to farm mostly EP - THIS IS NOT THE SAME! They have fought for the scroll and used it as they wanted, we would not take it anyway.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno

But just few minutes ago on this campaign, I have killed volendrung wielder in 1v1, took the hammer to the red side, we have taken keeps, wipe all reds in temple scroll and some guy took the scroll back to Temple of the Ancestor Moths so EP could take it back. This is a fact from few minutes ago. And this is spying and scroll trolling.

Nobody, literally nobody in the game was happy about it, and things like this was not happening on daily basis as they do now when campaign was locked. It sucks the fun out of playing. I don't care about points or faction, but I care about fair play. When whole faction for half an hour fights to take the scroll and they are screwed by just one troll in a minutes this is *** not fun gameplay.

No, they've got it right.
Seen plenty of 'bad behaviour' with the lock on. I enjoy making a mockery of it in zone so my memory is accute.
Farming is me and my friends taking refuge from the ad wave in the winery and slotting volcanic ruins. Got a thread made from that.
We all know the difference.

ellahellabella

amir412 wrote: »

Grow up and move on, if the way others plays affect your will to play its your problem not ours.

You realize this statement can be used both ways yes? Which i guess DOES make it everyone's problem.

Rikumaru

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

The removal of the faction lock on no-cp has made me come back to this game, so I'm pretty happy overall with the changes. People troll (I'm assuming your talking about scroll carrying stuff) regardless of faction lock or not. And when they relocked the campaigns, quite a few people actually started trolling in spite and out of protest because of the reintroduction of those locks. All those locks did was prevent players (tended to be small scale ones and solo ones) from playing with each other, alongside not being able to play half of our characters.

I've heard this before to be honest, and I found it an argument that was lacking back then. If you want to play with your friends on an unlocked campaign, do so. But there are plenty of people who prefer the locks. We play on the locked campaign. There is absolutely no reason why we can't have both. I think it's working out quite well, to be honest.

Yes, people will troll. So what? However, if those people really think that trolling out of spite or protest is okay, they have a strange idea of what's okay and what's right. Why not troll ZOS? Why troll us? If you want to play with your friends, go to the unlocked campaign and stop trying to make the rest of us miserable.

I promise you that the attitude of trolls and the resentment they have is only hurting THEM. Not us. If they are so eaten up with resentment that they have to troll honestly good people, they are the ones with the problem, not us.

I do play on a non-locked campaign thanks to ZOS changing it for no-cp. However before in no-cp there wasn't a non locked campaign. And yes I'm aware theres plenty of people who care about faction lock, however theres also a ton of people who despise faction lock and quit because of it (myself included until the reintroduction of unlocked no-cp). And the difference between the two is, faction lockers get annoyed of a very small increase in people trolling scrolls while multifactioners are actually unable to play with all of their friends and characters.

As for the majority of players, they actually don't care either way about faction lock or not. They just want to hop into PvP and fight, which is evident by how players will gravitate to the first listed campaign. It could be locked or unlocked, it wouldn't make much of a difference in population. As for the "trolls" (assuming you mean scroll ones), at least for me I don't care at all about that type of stuff since I'm only in Cyrodill to have some good PvP and don't really care about what goes on in the map.

Well, honestly the 'want to play with friends' is old and worn out...it was non sequester then as it is now. Back when the game started players would say this even though they were free to create another alliance char and play where they wanted....they only had to shift where they 'homed' at to do it. Problem was not a problem. Now, its even less of an issue since you can STILL create any char you wish and play wherever you want with 'friends'.....the real deal here is there are some who in order to make it exceedingly easy to swap around would demand others not be given the choice- ie the non locked. They demand it knowing fully well they could use any char they wanted to play with them, what they wanted really is for others to be drug into the argument against their will so they would be able to move frequently and freely at all times around. Doubt this? Name one single instant where you with faction lock could NOT play with friends- I am sure we can easily say 'log in with your ad, dc, ep and re-home to that camp' and the problem goes poof- even with locks. No locks just means you can bring in every single char to get rewards freely...not play with friends.

Name one instance? Uh, I've been unable to play with half of my friends list which I used to duo in Cyrodill with as we play in different alliances in no-cp. At launch people knew making characters in different alliances wouldn't allow them to play in the same campaign in Cyrodill so the vast majority of players had their mains on 1 alliance.

The issue here is when Cyrodill became unlocked people begun to spread their characters across every alliance so they could play with all the friends they have made over the years from other alliances and suddenly ZOS turns around and locks the campaigns without providing an alliance change feature so you can at least play your characters. Incase you didn't realise, the vast majority of multi-factioners just want to play with their friends and with all their characters and instead we get RPers trying to prevent people from playing with each other and force their viewpoint on people.

And as I stated.....the problem you list is "unable to play with half of my friends list which I used to duo in Cyrodill with as we play in different alliances in no-cp." and here is the solution. If the server was locked, you take whatever alliance you want and you play it there. You have a LOT of char slots and you just make whatever char you want in whatever alliance you want. BOOM.....no kidding, you just play whatever alliance there you want if it were locked. Here is where you have a problem- you cant swap out for a different alliance on the same server if its locked every few hours or daily. THAT IS IT.

So, you get to play with your friends and have always been able to do so in this game. All you have to do is NOT WANT EVERYONE ELSE TO SUFFER BECAUSE YOU WANT TO SWAP HOURLY OR DAILY TO GET TIER 3 ON ALL CHARS.

Are you okay? So your telling me to pick one alliance and play on it so I can play with my friends on the other factions. There's a small problem in your argument. There are 3 factions on the server and the majority of my friends list play on either DC or AD. This still leaves me unable to play with roughly half of my list.

As for other people suffering, in what way are they suffering? People trolling scrolls? That happens with or without alliance lock. I'm not really sure what the faction lock accomplishes other than forcing people apart. I guess it's more immersive, but then the issue there is how you can enter any alliance outside of PvP which makes no sense, so that argument is mute.

Also all my character slots are currently used up and if I were to conform to the faction lock, I would have to delete all my other faction characters, remake them, relevel them and then regrind skill lines such as undaunted and psijic. You do see the problem right?

Oh yeah almost forgot, I do not care about end of campaign rewards. The only thing I care for in Cyrodill is having a good PvP fight, which for me is either soloing or small scaling (2-4 players).

Ah....I see....now its not just about playing with your friends. Its about playing with all your friends at the same time. Even though half are DC- the other half are AD. So all you have to do is talk to your friends and you all a group decide if you want to play together pick a faction. Whats that? You dont want to, you want to swap hourly or daily to split time? Dont care that what you ask for opens the door to zone toxicity and trolling scrolls?

Of course you dont. How about this...explain how you resolve the issue with those wanting faction locks. As I see it your push is not for playing with your friends its about you and only you and what you want. Swappers constantly talk about how many want to swap without locks, and each and every time including this one the non locked tanks horribly. Its because people like you tell lies about wanting to play with friends- stomp around like children in the forums and demand the company supply you with what your little heart desires. You are special. You are.

Yes lets get 10 people to all abandon their characters so they can play on AD or visa versa and then organise their friends to do the same, and then for the friends of their friends to do the same so we can all play on one alliance. Are you even reading what you type?

But I guess faction RPing is more important than playing with friends in an MMO according to you. Oh yeah little side note, currently on PC-EU the non locked no-cp campaign is as popular as the main locked CP campaign, so no your wrong about non locked campaigns "tanking" population wise.

Rianai

Mayrael wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

idk wrote: »

There are spies and traitors in all campaigns. The link below is to a recent thread and iirc it is a locked campaign.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514866/how-to-deal-with-the-spies-at-cyrodiil/p1

Pertaining to that link, being logged into multiple accounts I perfectly acceptable as long as each is controlled manually, Zos has specifically said this.

Blah blah blah... Same trash talk every time. Somehow during the whole locked period I experienced those behaviours very very very rarely, maybe once in two weeks, and surprisingly now they are back. There is a difference in effort needed to spy back then and now, then you needed to make some sacrifices, you needed to dedicate yourself to it, now you just swap chars and boom, meaning anyone can do this and as a logical outcome it will lead to increased amount of such behaviours, denying it is just a poor try to defend unlocked campaigns because of personal interests - it has nothing to do with facts.

Scroll trolling happened almost daily when the campaign was locked - that's a fact (PC EU no-cp). It can't happen much more often than that. And since the campaign seems to be more balanced now, with less pvdoor and as a result - less scroll capping - there might be actually less trolling, simply because of the lack of opportunity and less boredom (and boredom is by far the most common reason for trolling, very rarely it is about helping or harming a certain faction).

And spies are completely irrelevant and the only issue are paranoid players.

(Fun fact - the only time i witnessed an actual and deliberate case of spying in ~ 3 years of PvP was during the locked time - and the spy literally had to tell me "hey i have a spy account on your faction", that's how big his impact was. Ironically the exact same player accused me of being a spy years ago, when i was completely new to the game and only had a single char, just because i was watching duels togeher with some peaceful enemies)

You mistake scroll FARMING with scroll trolling. I'm playing there to and know situation perfectly fine, there was certain guild that used to ball group, they used Scrolls to farm mostly EP - THIS IS NOT THE SAME! They have fought for the scroll and used it as they wanted, we would not take it anyway.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno

But just few minutes ago on this campaign, I have killed volendrung wielder in 1v1, took the hammer to the red side, we have taken keeps, wipe all reds in temple scroll and some guy took the scroll back to Temple of the Ancestor Moths so EP could take it back. This is a fact from few minutes ago. And this is spying and scroll trolling.

Nobody, literally nobody in the game was happy about it, and things like this was not happening on daily basis as they do now when campaign was locked. It sucks the fun out of playing. I don't care about points or faction, but I care about fair play. When whole faction for half an hour fights to take the scroll and they are screwed by just one troll in a minutes this is *** not fun gameplay.

I'm not mistaking anything. What you are describing here is exactly what happened all the time, especially at night times, when dc was pvdooring the map. And having an entire factionstack + hammer at the gates of an outnumbered faction (let's be honest - that's how 99% of scrolls are captured) isn't fair or fun (for the defenders) either.
And there is zero reason to care about what happens with the scroll if you don't care about the score. Or do you really want to tell me that running across the entire map on foot is a fun gameplay element?

I also don't get how this has anything to do with spying?

Rikumaru

Kelces wrote: »

I find it ironic, that many seem to ignore the fact, that choosing a certain faction is part of the roleplaying experience, while at the same time hating on loyalty of other players and that concept in general...which happens to be another RP element.

If you are not up to this aspect, then maybe you are in the wrong type of game to begin with.

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Ah....I see....now its not just about playing with your friends. Its about playing with all your friends at the same time. Even though half are DC- the other half are AD. So all you have to do is talk to your friends and you all a group decide if you want to play together pick a faction. Whats that? You dont want to, you want to swap hourly or daily to split time? Dont care that what you ask for opens the door to zone toxicity and trolling scrolls?

Of course you dont. How about this...explain how you resolve the issue with those wanting faction locks. As I see it your push is not for playing with your friends its about you and only you and what you want. Swappers constantly talk about how many want to swap without locks, and each and every time including this one the non locked tanks horribly. Its because people like you tell lies about wanting to play with friends- stomp around like children in the forums and demand the company supply you with what your little heart desires. You are special. You are.

Just like rikumaru said, people would have to delete most of thier charatcers, then re create and level them all over again to get them into one faction.

People had characters and friends on multiple alliances, then zos just decides to lock the campaigns, causing issues for many people. They could have at LEAST give people an alliance change option per character, that would have solved some of the issues at least.

It only takes a week max now, including psijic questline even. Lame excuse, sorry.

I somewhat agree on how choosing a faction is part of a roleplaying experience. Or at least it was. I would be perfectly fine with the locks if they locked PvE again since that makes sense from a roleplaying point of view and if they provided alliance change tokens. Strangely enough though, the roleplay / immersion excuse always seems to flutter away whenever someone points out locking PvE.

Also relevelling all skill lines for a character, upgrading bag size and collecting skyshards takes many many hours. Why should someone spend 20-30+ hours regrinding their character (and deleting their old character) just because of, as you put it a RP reason?

Joy_Division

Kelces wrote: »

I find it ironic, that many seem to ignore the fact, that choosing a certain faction is part of the roleplaying experience, while at the same time hating on loyalty of other players and that concept in general...which happens to be another RP element.

If you are not up to this aspect, then maybe you are in the wrong type of game to begin with.

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Ah....I see....now its not just about playing with your friends. Its about playing with all your friends at the same time. Even though half are DC- the other half are AD. So all you have to do is talk to your friends and you all a group decide if you want to play together pick a faction. Whats that? You dont want to, you want to swap hourly or daily to split time? Dont care that what you ask for opens the door to zone toxicity and trolling scrolls?

Of course you dont. How about this...explain how you resolve the issue with those wanting faction locks. As I see it your push is not for playing with your friends its about you and only you and what you want. Swappers constantly talk about how many want to swap without locks, and each and every time including this one the non locked tanks horribly. Its because people like you tell lies about wanting to play with friends- stomp around like children in the forums and demand the company supply you with what your little heart desires. You are special. You are.

Just like rikumaru said, people would have to delete most of thier charatcers, then re create and level them all over again to get them into one faction.

People had characters and friends on multiple alliances, then zos just decides to lock the campaigns, causing issues for many people. They could have at LEAST give people an alliance change option per character, that would have solved some of the issues at least.

It only takes a week max now, including psijic questline even. Lame excuse, sorry.

Talks about how importing roleplaying experience is ... then tells everyone else to ignore their mains and just role an alt as it takes a week.

Beardimus

TKOEF1112 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

There are spies and traitors in all campaigns. The link below is to a recent thread and iirc it is a locked campaign.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514866/how-to-deal-with-the-spies-at-cyrodiil/p1

Pertaining to that link, being logged into multiple accounts I perfectly acceptable as long as each is controlled manually, Zos has specifically said this.

So just because a few people are willing to blow the extra money and spend the extra time to work a second account JUST for trolling, that somehow invalidates how much easier it is to do so on unlocked campaigns? I don't even have to have another account to spy/betray in non-champ now. I could totally watch one faction's movements then switch to another and report them without the extra $60 out of pocket.

Exactly, it's another wierd defence used by anti lock camp.

I'm really not looking forward to this being.back on console..hopefully the boosters will stay in CP no lock, but who knows

Mayrael

Rianai wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

idk wrote: »

There are spies and traitors in all campaigns. The link below is to a recent thread and iirc it is a locked campaign.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514866/how-to-deal-with-the-spies-at-cyrodiil/p1

Pertaining to that link, being logged into multiple accounts I perfectly acceptable as long as each is controlled manually, Zos has specifically said this.

Blah blah blah... Same trash talk every time. Somehow during the whole locked period I experienced those behaviours very very very rarely, maybe once in two weeks, and surprisingly now they are back. There is a difference in effort needed to spy back then and now, then you needed to make some sacrifices, you needed to dedicate yourself to it, now you just swap chars and boom, meaning anyone can do this and as a logical outcome it will lead to increased amount of such behaviours, denying it is just a poor try to defend unlocked campaigns because of personal interests - it has nothing to do with facts.

Scroll trolling happened almost daily when the campaign was locked - that's a fact (PC EU no-cp). It can't happen much more often than that. And since the campaign seems to be more balanced now, with less pvdoor and as a result - less scroll capping - there might be actually less trolling, simply because of the lack of opportunity and less boredom (and boredom is by far the most common reason for trolling, very rarely it is about helping or harming a certain faction).

And spies are completely irrelevant and the only issue are paranoid players.

(Fun fact - the only time i witnessed an actual and deliberate case of spying in ~ 3 years of PvP was during the locked time - and the spy literally had to tell me "hey i have a spy account on your faction", that's how big his impact was. Ironically the exact same player accused me of being a spy years ago, when i was completely new to the game and only had a single char, just because i was watching duels togeher with some peaceful enemies)

You mistake scroll FARMING with scroll trolling. I'm playing there to and know situation perfectly fine, there was certain guild that used to ball group, they used Scrolls to farm mostly EP - THIS IS NOT THE SAME! They have fought for the scroll and used it as they wanted, we would not take it anyway.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno

But just few minutes ago on this campaign, I have killed volendrung wielder in 1v1, took the hammer to the red side, we have taken keeps, wipe all reds in temple scroll and some guy took the scroll back to Temple of the Ancestor Moths so EP could take it back. This is a fact from few minutes ago. And this is spying and scroll trolling.

Nobody, literally nobody in the game was happy about it, and things like this was not happening on daily basis as they do now when campaign was locked. It sucks the fun out of playing. I don't care about points or faction, but I care about fair play. When whole faction for half an hour fights to take the scroll and they are screwed by just one troll in a minutes this is *** not fun gameplay.

I'm not mistaking anything. What you are describing here is exactly what happened all the time, especially at night times, when dc was pvdooring the map. And having an entire factionstack + hammer at the gates of an outnumbered faction (let's be honest - that's how 99% of scrolls are captured) isn't fair or fun (for the defenders) either.
And there is zero reason to care about what happens with the scroll if you don't care about the score. Or do you really want to tell me that running across the entire map on foot is a fun gameplay element?

I also don't get how this has anything to do with spying?

You don't get it. I don't care about points but I do care for fun gameplay. When dozens of people play legit to take the scroll because you know we have to do something, and suddenly all the time and effort they have spent is wasted by one dou.che, don't tell me it's good and fun. I don't like being zerged but faction unlock didn't changed anything in this matter, DC is almost always the most populated faction on Gray Host and Ravenwatch (EU at least), so being zerged is something natural in this type of games, but abusing game mechanics like switching sides just before taking the scroll or keep to ruin someone's experience is simply cheating.

Ranger209

amir412 wrote: »

Grow up and move on, if the way others plays affect your will to play its your problem not ours.

This is the attitude that kills games

Kelces

@Kadoin & @Joy_Division

Choices have their consequences. Roleplay aspect aswell, no contradiction at all. I can deal with it, can you?

ellahellabella wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

I find it ironic, that many seem to ignore the fact, that choosing a certain faction is part of the roleplaying experience, while at the same time hating on loyalty of other players and that concept in general...which happens to be another RP element.

If you are not up to this aspect, then maybe you are in the wrong type of game to begin with.

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Ah....I see....now its not just about playing with your friends. Its about playing with all your friends at the same time. Even though half are DC- the other half are AD. So all you have to do is talk to your friends and you all a group decide if you want to play together pick a faction. Whats that? You dont want to, you want to swap hourly or daily to split time? Dont care that what you ask for opens the door to zone toxicity and trolling scrolls?

Of course you dont. How about this...explain how you resolve the issue with those wanting faction locks. As I see it your push is not for playing with your friends its about you and only you and what you want. Swappers constantly talk about how many want to swap without locks, and each and every time including this one the non locked tanks horribly. Its because people like you tell lies about wanting to play with friends- stomp around like children in the forums and demand the company supply you with what your little heart desires. You are special. You are.

Just like rikumaru said, people would have to delete most of thier charatcers, then re create and level them all over again to get them into one faction.

People had characters and friends on multiple alliances, then zos just decides to lock the campaigns, causing issues for many people. They could have at LEAST give people an alliance change option per character, that would have solved some of the issues at least.

It only takes a week max now, including psijic questline even. Lame excuse, sorry.

This game had no lock for 2 years. I find it Ironic that you forget that.
Perhaps if you are not up to the aspect that this game is far from competitive thanks to it's unadaptable scoring system but want something heavily competitive, you are in the wrong game to begin with.

No, I haven't forgotten about that. It doesn't make a difference though, in all the MMO's I experienced one thing remained the same: The players who refuse to play fair are always the culprit. Developers can try what they want, ther are always some people who will find a way to do stupid stuff and ruin the game in the process.

KINGOFTHESKULLS

Funny , I've never seen a faction loyalist with a bad behavior but every time I see a filthy swapper they seem to be the toxic one and trolly one.

There is always good and bad people in groups , factions and clans and I personally have a lot of friends that change factions and I don't really have a problem with the "idea" of swapping factions itself but lets be honest here there are more people that abuse it than the ones that actually use it the right way , which it's balancing the population and playing with their friends Fairly.

This is a MMO RPG after all , you choose to be a proud Ebonheart Pact warrior and it should stay that way , same thing with other factions.

I've spent thousands of hours in no cp , leading groups and helping my faction win and dealt with countless scroll/volendrung and zone trolls and sure as hell I can tell that faction lock never stopped trolls from being sad miserable wastes of flesh but it did have a great impact on lessening it.
Not being able to switch to a different faction any time you want helped a lot.

Now for spies , If they are really that miserable to buy a new account just to be pests again well you can't really do anything about it.
Now let me explain it to you how spies are ; there are few types of them :
- ones that tell their friends where your camps are.
- ones that simply read the zone chat to find out your next move.
- ones that tell their friends where you are stealthed at.
- ones that follow you around or even get into your group to constantly know where you are going.
Now imagine that happening to you , would you be able to have fun with that happening ?
And they always happen to be the ones that support no faction lock , funny right?
Which ones harder for them to do ? being able to switch whenever they want without a faction lock or buying another copy of the game?

Here's the thing , by simply having a score indicator in PvP , that just automatically encourages people to fight for a singular Cause : Winning, but the problem is when there is no faction lock , the scores don't really mean anything and for people that are used to it is annoying.
After all what is the point of fighting a war when there is no goal and cause ? that's what No faction lock does , it ruins the score and takes away the thrill and competitiveness of winning the war.
So why even have a score indicator when there is no faction lock? because people will home whatever campaign that it winning anyways.

Now there are other things that ZoS could implement to try keep both parties happy :
1 - Add a cooldown to switching factions , could be a day , could be an hour but a cooldown would definitely help.
2 - Add a locked no CP campaign (unfortunately with the game's current state it would be extremely dead).
3 - Give out better end of campaign rewards to encourage players fight for a cause.
4 - Placing No CP on top of the campaign list instead of CP.
5 - Removing the score indicator for no locked campaigns.
6 - Create a blacklist for those who abuse the game features and troll visible for everyone in the campaign to see.

I don't blame you for supporting no faction lock but don't forget that there are many of you who abuses and it make you all look bad and that is a FACT.

Joy_Division

Kelces wrote: »

@Kadoin & @Joy_Division

Choices have their consequences. Roleplay aspect aswell, no contradiction at all. I can deal with it, can you?

Indeed they do. ZOS years ago made the choice to encourage cross faction play with One Tamriel.

Kelces

Joy_Division wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

@Kadoin & @Joy_Division

Choices have their consequences. Roleplay aspect aswell, no contradiction at all. I can deal with it, can you?

Indeed they do. ZOS years ago made the choice to encourage cross faction PVE play with One Tamriel.

Fixed.

Juhasow

I can't take people making threads like this one seriously anymore...

Joy_Division

Kelces wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

@Kadoin & @Joy_Division

Choices have their consequences. Roleplay aspect aswell, no contradiction at all. I can deal with it, can you?

Indeed they do. ZOS years ago made the choice to encourage cross faction PVE play with One Tamriel.

Fixed.

Nope. Try again.

March 7, 2016: Patch 2.3.5

ZOS wrote:

Removed the alliance restrictions for campaign reassignments; you may now have characters from any alliance assigned to the same campaign.

ATomiX69

This thread makes me want to dunk some scrolls into slaugherfish again.