Animation canceling - forum war

Raisin

should stay

We should get little badges under our avatars that show our side. That way instead of making a new thread every few hours about it, we can just start fights about it with anybody, in any thread, based on a little icon!

Perhaps we retire the 3 old, boring factions of Cyro, and bring in two new, exciting, fresh ones...? Hmmm...

precambria

should stay

It's not just about block cancelling, that was just a way of using the fact it was possible to get more out of your combat time (personally I only really used block cancel for buffs), the problem is by doing this it COMPLETELY changed the feel of combat from being fast paced and realistic to STICKY and turn based because some abilities now take twice as long which BREAKS your flow in to tiny pieces, I can still block cancel some abilities animations, you can still roll cancel but the feel of seamlessly weaving or comboing instant cast abilities has been itself cancelled, as a result many people have cancelled their subscriptions

Faulgor

I'm just amazed so many people get away with creating threads about this over and over again.

Lysette

should go

It can't be intentional to put effort into creating lengthy animations for actions, just to not let them play out later on. ZOS didn't call it an exploit, but admitted that it is a glitch, which became kind of a feature, because it couldn''t be fixed (I guess due to time contraints, other stuff was more important). Of course this caused additional time required to work around it, because this "feature" had an effect on many things, which would otherwise be less time consuming to achieve.

IMO ZOS should have fixed it in the first place, now it will be more effort to do that, but I guess they see as well, that in the end it will be more costly to stick with it than to put in the effort to get rid of it and overhaul the combat system with a more consistent damage output - which will be easier to balance in consequence.

Even I think it should be fixed, just ZOS can make a good estimation, which will be more beneficial in the end. With the bow they changed a tolerated "feature" a long time ago - before one could draw the bow and release it with a bow skill, which in consequence got 2 hits in at the same time (and made the bow quite powerful). This was an unintended "feature" for quite some time, but in the end ZOS fixed it. And I guess they will as well fix the animation cancellation for a more consistent damage output across all of the player base and an easier manageable combat system in regards to balance changes.

MajBludd

should stay

So if they removed it, how do you think it would affect gameplay? Not just in pvp but in pve.
W/O it, you will have to wait for your animation to complete before you bar swap, correct? Or how about blocking, cant because you have to wait for the animation to complete, correct?

If I'm wrong in this thinking, please correct me.

Aurielle

should stay

Lysette wrote: »

It can't be intentional to put effort into creating lengthy animations for actions, just to not let them play out later on.

Again, most animation cancelling involves cancelling the recovery animations of light attacks — not skills — during weaving. The only time the recovery animation of skills is cancelled is during bar swap cancelling (which doesn’t happen with every skill cast on a standard DPS rotation), or during reactive dodge roll cancelling in PVP (which, again, doesn’t happen with every skill cast).

Y’all really want to watch the recovery animations of light attacks that badly, huh?

Lysette

should go

MajBludd wrote: »

So if they removed it, how do you think it would affect gameplay? Not just in pvp but in pve.
W/O it, you will have to wait for your animation to complete before you bar swap, correct? Or how about blocking, cant because you have to wait for the animation to complete, correct?

If I'm wrong in this thinking, please correct me.

The look and feel would be like in a game, where all actions have cool down timers, I guess. But we will have to see with what ZOS might come up in case they choose to change it.

MajBludd

should stay

@Lysette so what you are suggesting is slowed down combat with cool downs on each skill, Like WoW? If so, hell no.

Lysette

should go

Aurielle wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

It can't be intentional to put effort into creating lengthy animations for actions, just to not let them play out later on.

Again, most animation cancelling involves cancelling the recovery animations of light attacks — not skills — during weaving. The only time the recovery animation of skills is cancelled is during bar swap cancelling (which doesn’t happen with every skill cast on a standard DPS rotation), or during reactive dodge roll cancelling in PVP (which, again, doesn’t happen with every skill cast).

Y’all really want to watch the recovery animations of light attacks that badly, huh?

i want to work it properly, regardless how that is then.

jadarock

This again? Smh l2p

MCBIZZLE300

should stay

Lysette wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

So if they removed it, how do you think it would affect gameplay? Not just in pvp but in pve.
W/O it, you will have to wait for your animation to complete before you bar swap, correct? Or how about blocking, cant because you have to wait for the animation to complete, correct?

If I'm wrong in this thinking, please correct me.

The look and feel would be like in a game, where all actions have cool down timers, I guess. But we will have to see with what ZOS might come up in case they choose to change it.

what so it can be like all the other tab targeting mmo's? no thanks.

Aurielle

should stay

Lysette wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

So if they removed it, how do you think it would affect gameplay? Not just in pvp but in pve.
W/O it, you will have to wait for your animation to complete before you bar swap, correct? Or how about blocking, cant because you have to wait for the animation to complete, correct?

If I'm wrong in this thinking, please correct me.

The look and feel would be like in a game, where all actions have cool down timers, I guess.

In other words, like the classic MMORPGs that many of us got bored with years ago.

What ESO offered over other MMOs was a fast-paced, active/reactive combat style that gave YOU the agency to decide exactly when you blocked, when you dealt light damage attacks with your weapon (light attacks are essentially an active form of the passive auto attacks you see in games like LOTRO), and when you dodged enemy attacks.

If you take that away, ESO is just another MMO that doesn’t let players decide EXACTLY when to block, light attack, and dodge. That’s not the game I beta tested six years ago, and it’s not the game I returned to four years ago.

Lysette

should go

MajBludd wrote: »

@Lysette so what you are suggesting is slowed down combat with cool downs on each skill, Like WoW? If so, hell no.

Well, i guess if they decide to do that, then in the first place to slow it down to get rid of server load. But just ZOS will know how much of an impact it actually has. if you guys want more performance in cyro, something has to be changed to lower server stress. I doubt that ZOS will extend their server farm for the same amount of people, it's cheaper to reduce the stress.

damdamjel

should stay

haha high ping players don't even care

MCBIZZLE300

should stay

Lysette wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

@Lysette so what you are suggesting is slowed down combat with cool downs on each skill, Like WoW? If so, hell no.

Well, i guess if they decide to do that, then in the first place to slow it down to get rid of server load. But just ZOS will know how much of an impact it actually has. if you guys want more performance in cyro, something has to be changed to lower server stress. I doubt that ZOS will extend their server farm for the same amount of people, it's cheaper to reduce the stress.

No ones even mentioning server stress here, Its highly unlikely that ani cancelling is the reason for poor game performance. I cant understand why you would want to get rid of animation cancelling. All the arguements i see against it are based on hot air.

Lysette

should go

See I have no opinion about if it is to stay or not. If they declare it to be an intentional feature and include it in the tutorial and design all skills based on the damage output with animation cancellation, then fine. But I want it to work properly and be consistent then. So far it isn't consistent and not an intentional feature, but just a tolerated glitch, which is causing a mess in regards to balancing and is eventually even one of the reasons why they can't get performance up in Cyro. But just ZOS can know how much of an impact it actually is, so I leave it to them to make a good decision.

Lysette

should go

You really think that double the amount of actions in the same time which is planned for just one action is no server stress?-

nejcn001

Animation canceling "is a feature".



Like they said its a unintended mehanic. They realized it will take a loooong to fix, so they left it, called "its a feature" and balanced the game around it.

My answer (since its not available):
1. Animation canceling looks stupid. (Characters hands wont even move and he does damage, something like perfect blocking timing is impossible, also because of lag).
2. By removing animation canceling, game becomes beginner friendly, but not challenging in endgame.
3. By removing animation canceling game will gave to get rebalanced. DPS will drop, in PVP nobody will die (can be changed globaly by Battle Spirit).

My solution:
Remove animation canceling part by part so veterans wont quit.
Speed up animations, so it wont affect so much DPS.
Keep LA weaving.

snoozy

ah it's that time of year again

Jacozilla

should stay

why is this poll even entertaining calling ani canceling an exploit?

Not bashing ppl that don't like it - perfectly fine not to. Same for ppl that do like it. Agree to disagree and all good, because like and dislike are subjective opinions.

What is NOT opinion is ZOS themselves have settled this once and for all by declaring animation canceling a feature, and actually advise/teach players how to do it (on videos, streams, and in-game Advisor level up tutorial, plus loading screen msgs)

StaticWave

should stay

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

The developer who said it was part of the game now. People tend to forget just how fickle he was.


He would say one thing, and than another. They tried to fix AC and they failed to do it. Making it worse, and when they showed they lacked the skill to handle it. It became part of the game! Amazing just how bad that dude was for the game.


This new leader, I really hope does what is right. Fixing it, and making the combat better.

I really hope he also purges the forum as well, because clearly some people have demonstrated that they are too thick to be reasoned with..

Lysette

should go

IMO if you want better performance in Cyro, something has to go what is causing server stress - 100% more actions than planned per time unit might just be one of those. You can't have it both ways, more performance and sticking to lag inducing features. ZOS will most likely not invest in an extended server farm for the same amount of people - so something has to go or you will have crap performance - so choose what you like better.

Jaxaxo

should stay

Jacozilla wrote: »

why is this poll even entertaining calling ani canceling an exploit?

Not bashing ppl that don't like it - perfectly fine not to. Same for ppl that do like it. Agree to disagree and all good, because like and dislike are subjective opinions.

What is NOT opinion is ZOS themselves have settled this once and for all by declaring animation canceling a feature, and actually advise/teach players how to do it (on videos, streams, and in-game Advisor level up tutorial, plus loading screen msgs)

Just sayin, im the one who made the poll and it's only asking if ppl want or dont want AC. And meme is just a meme, based on recent uproar. In my opinion animation canceling is thing which makes combat so fluid and responsive and i wish it would stay as it was.

Royaji

Lysette wrote: »

You really think that double the amount of actions in the same time which is planned for just one action is no server stress?-

You really think that tracking a cast time and a cooldown for every skill every player is using is no server stress?

More than that, it is planned that you will perform one GCD-bound action per 0.9 seconds. And no amount of animation cancelling can bypass that.

NagyPako

should stay

nameless420 wrote: »

i remember a very long time when animation canceling first came out to be a big deal, the devs said they where working on ways to fix it, then some people got fired or quit, and the new people came in and said they were surprised that the community was doing it and that they liked it and it was staying in the game.

Show evidence or it didnt happen.

Lysette

should go

Royaji wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

You really think that double the amount of actions in the same time which is planned for just one action is no server stress?-

You really think that tracking a cast time and a cooldown for every skill every player is using is no server stress?

More than that, it is planned that you will perform one GCD-bound action per 0.9 seconds. And no amount of animation cancelling can bypass that.

See, i am programming since a long time and do parallel programming since a decade - a "timer" like it is required here is just a number, it is not ticking or anything, and to test it, is just a conditional jump after comparing 2 numbers (global system time and this "timer"). One of the cheapest operations on a CPU.

Coppes

Royaji wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

You really think that double the amount of actions in the same time which is planned for just one action is no server stress?-

You really think that tracking a cast time and a cooldown for every skill every player is using is no server stress?
.

I mean MMOs have been doing this for years, so. No?

I really don’t care anymore.

Though, I’ll say, spamming mouse button 1 isn’t considered skill. Nor is ani-cancelling.

Jaxaxo

should stay

Raisin wrote: »

We should get little badges under our avatars that show our side. That way instead of making a new thread every few hours about it, we can just start fights about it with anybody, in any thread, based on a little icon!

Perhaps we retire the 3 old, boring factions of Cyro, and bring in two new, exciting, fresh ones...? Hmmm...

I just added info in my signature

rager82b14_ESO

should go

NagyPako wrote: »

nameless420 wrote: »

i remember a very long time when animation canceling first came out to be a big deal, the devs said they where working on ways to fix it, then some people got fired or quit, and the new people came in and said they were surprised that the community was doing it and that they liked it and it was staying in the game.

Show evidence or it didnt happen.

While I am not sure about the fired part. or how new people came in all that. I do know that they tried to fix it and made it worse. And like always went dark for awhile, while we the players would report people for abusing this exploit. So they was force to say "It is a feature!" because they did not have the skill to fix it.

That video people keep posting. They don't understand who that guy was, and how stressed us testers was with him getting any answers at all, and him changing his mind all the time.

Tsar_Gekkou

should stay

It seems like the only people who want animation cancelling gone are those who hit under 10K dps and want everyone else to be dragged down to their level so they don't feel as bad. Nothing is stopping them from letting animations play out in full, but they still want to shut down other playstyles that they don't use.