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Which game-time increase you hate the most?

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  • Kombinator
    Kombinator
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    RNG
    Tandor wrote: »
    Kombinator wrote: »
    Sylvermynx wrote: »
    Other: none of the above.
    AlnilamE wrote: »
    I don't hate any of those things.

    I don't grind though. I level my characters crafting skills by deconstructing stuff I find through normal gameplay.
    Tandor wrote: »
    Other: none of the above. They all fit into the category of "playing the game" - although I don't grind.

    Since you don't grind i assume that is the part you hate the most. Even though it is not required for most of the content.

    But would you hate it, if you couldn't play any part of the game without a lot of grinding? Like if world content of next DLC would be that insanely hard, that without a perfect gear you would die against the first enemy you encounter. Even worse, that they would block behind a "solo phase" part where no other player can help you through, and that would be hard as hell too.

    The reason I don't grind isn't because I hate it, it's because I have no need to do so. The rest of your comment is irrelevant both to my playstyle and to ESO.

    It's like saying, that everything on this forum is irrelevant, because you don't play ESO. Just because you don't do it it doesn't mean, that you have no opinion about it, or you never did.

    I assume you wouldn't mind 2 hour loading screens, or the inability to sprint, and running would cost 5 times stamina of current sprinting with fast-travel, and all way-shrines disabled, the necessity to grind more levels so that you can do world content, and story, and last but not least putting even the world content behind RNG based keys, that have 0,02% chance to drop from an npc, that you just can't pull more, than one at a time.
    Edited by Kombinator on February 23, 2020 5:55PM
  • Kombinator
    Kombinator
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    RNG
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    Passive waiting, but of a different sort -- Basically waiting to get what you want done.
    Includes waiting for a group to form in Group Finder, or trying to form a group for a dungeon or boss in guild or zone chat, or trying to form a Story Run for a dungeon.
    Would rather just go ahead and get it done SOLO.

    You are not the only one. A lot of people request to make solo level for dungeons. So that you can take your time hearing the dialogues, choose your answers, asks questions, and read every note/book you come across. Instead of rushing from one boss to another like a racing game.
  • Tigerseye
    Tigerseye
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    Inventory juggling.

    Having to stop to sell, decon and bank, all the time.

    Made far worse by the lack of increase of slots, on one char, if you only play one char.
  • Kombinator
    Kombinator
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    RNG
    Tigerseye wrote: »
    Inventory juggling.

    Having to stop to sell, decon and bank, all the time.

    Made far worse by the lack of increase of slots, on one char, if you only play one char.

    Max. inventory i saw so far is 200. But it involves a bunch of gold, and lots of passive waiting for stable. And crown points.

    By the way this is in the non-rng grind category. You do the same thing over, and over again for a goal, but it's not dependent on any RNG at all.
    Edited by Kombinator on February 23, 2020 6:20PM
  • Kombinator
    Kombinator
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    RNG
    For me it's partly the RNG, and partly the passive-waiting. Specifically the way research, and stable works. It also annoys me, that you can spend crowns to skip it. This is one hell of a cash-cow part of the game.
  • Coppes
    Coppes
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    How do you hate story? Especially in an ES title game, it’s a given.

    Especially if you don’t care about it, then just skip over everything.

    Books/additional dialogue are there to help with world building so every enemy you fight isn’t a generic enemy bad guy #13742.
  • hasi
    hasi
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    RNG
    Spaceroamer wrote: »
    How do you hate story? Especially in an ES title game, it’s a given.

    Especially if you don’t care about it, then just skip over everything.

    Books/additional dialogue are there to help with world building so every enemy you fight isn’t a generic enemy bad guy #13742.

    Maybe some people found the base game quests for example to be rather dull or repetitive? Especially after doing them on several Characters for the Titles, Skillpoints etc.. Just a guess though.
  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    Kombinator wrote: »
    Tandor wrote: »
    Kombinator wrote: »
    Sylvermynx wrote: »
    Other: none of the above.
    AlnilamE wrote: »
    I don't hate any of those things.

    I don't grind though. I level my characters crafting skills by deconstructing stuff I find through normal gameplay.
    Tandor wrote: »
    Other: none of the above. They all fit into the category of "playing the game" - although I don't grind.

    Since you don't grind i assume that is the part you hate the most. Even though it is not required for most of the content.

    But would you hate it, if you couldn't play any part of the game without a lot of grinding? Like if world content of next DLC would be that insanely hard, that without a perfect gear you would die against the first enemy you encounter. Even worse, that they would block behind a "solo phase" part where no other player can help you through, and that would be hard as hell too.

    The reason I don't grind isn't because I hate it, it's because I have no need to do so. The rest of your comment is irrelevant both to my playstyle and to ESO.

    It's like saying, that everything on this forum is irrelevant, because you don't play ESO. Just because you don't do it it doesn't mean, that you have no opinion about it, or you never did.

    I assume you wouldn't mind 2 hour loading screens, or the inability to sprint, and running would cost 5 times stamina of current sprinting with fast-travel, and all way-shrines disabled, the necessity to grind more levels so that you can do world content, and story, and last but not least putting even the world content behind RNG based keys, that have 0,02% chance to drop from an npc, that you just can't pull more, than one at a time.

    No, it'd be the same if you asked me for my opinion on PvP or Trials in ESO - I don't do them, so how on earth would I have an opinion on them?

    Assuming that because I don't have an opinion on something I have no experience of I wouldn't mind 2 hour loading screens etc is frankly just plain daft.
  • Kombinator
    Kombinator
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    RNG
    Tandor wrote: »
    Kombinator wrote: »
    Tandor wrote: »
    Kombinator wrote: »
    Sylvermynx wrote: »
    Other: none of the above.
    AlnilamE wrote: »
    I don't hate any of those things.

    I don't grind though. I level my characters crafting skills by deconstructing stuff I find through normal gameplay.
    Tandor wrote: »
    Other: none of the above. They all fit into the category of "playing the game" - although I don't grind.

    Since you don't grind i assume that is the part you hate the most. Even though it is not required for most of the content.

    But would you hate it, if you couldn't play any part of the game without a lot of grinding? Like if world content of next DLC would be that insanely hard, that without a perfect gear you would die against the first enemy you encounter. Even worse, that they would block behind a "solo phase" part where no other player can help you through, and that would be hard as hell too.

    The reason I don't grind isn't because I hate it, it's because I have no need to do so. The rest of your comment is irrelevant both to my playstyle and to ESO.

    It's like saying, that everything on this forum is irrelevant, because you don't play ESO. Just because you don't do it it doesn't mean, that you have no opinion about it, or you never did.

    I assume you wouldn't mind 2 hour loading screens, or the inability to sprint, and running would cost 5 times stamina of current sprinting with fast-travel, and all way-shrines disabled, the necessity to grind more levels so that you can do world content, and story, and last but not least putting even the world content behind RNG based keys, that have 0,02% chance to drop from an npc, that you just can't pull more, than one at a time.

    No, it'd be the same if you asked me for my opinion on PvP or Trials in ESO - I don't do them, so how on earth would I have an opinion on them?

    Assuming that because I don't have an opinion on something I have no experience of I wouldn't mind 2 hour loading screens etc is frankly just plain daft.

    Let's try a different approach then. If these were about to come true, then which would you ask the most urgent to be changed/fixed?
  • Kombinator
    Kombinator
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    RNG
    Spaceroamer wrote: »
    How do you hate story? Especially in an ES title game, it’s a given.

    Especially if you don’t care about it, then just skip over everything.

    Books/additional dialogue are there to help with world building so every enemy you fight isn’t a generic enemy bad guy #13742.

    Some people actually don't give a *****ck about story. They might just want pure, and hard action. Going to dungeons, and trials 24/7.

    Though in case of ESO the thing is, that nothing is mandatory. You can play plenty of hours without ever setting foot in group content, and you can reach 1k. cp without ever completing the main quest.
  • Shantu
    Shantu
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    passive waiting
    I cringe at how much of my life I've wasted over the last 3+ years staring at a login/load screen.
  • Indigogo
    Indigogo
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    passive waiting
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    Passive waiting, but of a different sort -- Basically waiting to get what you want done.
    Includes waiting for a group to form in Group Finder, or trying to form a group for a dungeon or boss in guild or zone chat, or trying to form a Story Run for a dungeon.
    Would rather just go ahead and get it done SOLO.

    Hard same.
    I don't want to rush the content, but waiting on others has never been my strong point. Just let me get it done.
    Edited by Indigogo on February 23, 2020 7:31PM
  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    Kombinator wrote: »
    Tandor wrote: »
    Kombinator wrote: »
    Tandor wrote: »
    Kombinator wrote: »
    Sylvermynx wrote: »
    Other: none of the above.
    AlnilamE wrote: »
    I don't hate any of those things.

    I don't grind though. I level my characters crafting skills by deconstructing stuff I find through normal gameplay.
    Tandor wrote: »
    Other: none of the above. They all fit into the category of "playing the game" - although I don't grind.

    Since you don't grind i assume that is the part you hate the most. Even though it is not required for most of the content.

    But would you hate it, if you couldn't play any part of the game without a lot of grinding? Like if world content of next DLC would be that insanely hard, that without a perfect gear you would die against the first enemy you encounter. Even worse, that they would block behind a "solo phase" part where no other player can help you through, and that would be hard as hell too.

    The reason I don't grind isn't because I hate it, it's because I have no need to do so. The rest of your comment is irrelevant both to my playstyle and to ESO.

    It's like saying, that everything on this forum is irrelevant, because you don't play ESO. Just because you don't do it it doesn't mean, that you have no opinion about it, or you never did.

    I assume you wouldn't mind 2 hour loading screens, or the inability to sprint, and running would cost 5 times stamina of current sprinting with fast-travel, and all way-shrines disabled, the necessity to grind more levels so that you can do world content, and story, and last but not least putting even the world content behind RNG based keys, that have 0,02% chance to drop from an npc, that you just can't pull more, than one at a time.

    No, it'd be the same if you asked me for my opinion on PvP or Trials in ESO - I don't do them, so how on earth would I have an opinion on them?

    Assuming that because I don't have an opinion on something I have no experience of I wouldn't mind 2 hour loading screens etc is frankly just plain daft.

    Let's try a different approach then. If these were about to come true, then which would you ask the most urgent to be changed/fixed?

    No, let's stick to the approach that you asked about a list of things in the game that I have no problem with, although one of them I don't take a view on as I don't have any experience of it. Everything else you've raised is hypothetical, irrelevant and off-topic.That's it.
  • Runefang
    Runefang
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    Boss Combat
    I particularly dislike any fight where either the boss is immune or I’m rendered incapable of fighting. Think Netch boss in DC2 which falls to the ground what feels like once every 5 minutes. Or the first boss in WGT who puts you in a cage, admittedly with such high dps nowadays it’s rare to see that phase.

    But the one not mentioned there for me is the achievements that require 30 dailies. They’re so boring, obviously extremely repetitive and yet I do them only because I’m farming achievements. Most achievements feel like just playing the game but not these ones.
  • CMDR_Un1k0rn
    CMDR_Un1k0rn
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    passive waiting
    I actually like everything else in the poll.

    Now I understand why the research mechanic is what it is, and I don't complain.

    That doesn't mean I have to outright like it though.
    In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!
  • Kombinator
    Kombinator
    ✭✭✭
    RNG
    Runefang wrote: »
    I particularly dislike any fight where either the boss is immune or I’m rendered incapable of fighting. Think Netch boss in DC2 which falls to the ground what feels like once every 5 minutes. Or the first boss in WGT who puts you in a cage, admittedly with such high dps nowadays it’s rare to see that phase.

    But the one not mentioned there for me is the achievements that require 30 dailies. They’re so boring, obviously extremely repetitive and yet I do them only because I’m farming achievements. Most achievements feel like just playing the game but not these ones.

    And it's not even a hard one i might add. There is no dificult aoe, or mechanics to play out, or adds to destroy in the meantime. You can just stand there, and take it. Healer puts down the basic AOE, and that alone is enough to outheal it.
    CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »
    I actually like everything else in the poll.

    Now I understand why the research mechanic is what it is, and I don't complain.

    That doesn't mean I have to outright like it though.

    I hate that part of the whole crafting system the most. Unless you pay a small fortune for instant research scrolls it takes damn long to get all of them. 1 week intense play on high level is enough to get all other part of the crafting skills done, but not that one. That one takes months.
    Edited by Kombinator on February 23, 2020 7:48PM
  • alanmatillab16_ESO
    alanmatillab16_ESO
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    Spaceroamer wrote: »
    How do you hate story? Especially in an ES title game, it’s a given.

    Especially if you don’t care about it, then just skip over everything.

    Books/additional dialogue are there to help with world building so every enemy you fight isn’t a generic enemy bad guy #13742.

    The problem with the story of any MMO is that for it to work as an MMO the quests have to be generic because multiple people have to be able to do a particular quest. In a single player game more depth can be added with player choices having a consequence, NPCs being killed etc.

    Some MMOS get clever with phasing, WoW uses it a lot (in some places far too much) or they have certain quests that are single player only the class quests in SWTOR for example.

    There are only so many times in an MMO that you can get told to talk to x,y and Z npc as part of an "investigation" or kill wolves to collect 12 tails, or pick up 20 shiney rocks before the quess all roll into one and a player falls into the habit of skipping the quest dialogue and just heading for the objectives. Moreso when it is another playthrough with a different character.
  • Dusk_Coven
    Dusk_Coven
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    passive waiting
    Indigogo wrote: »
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    Passive waiting, but of a different sort -- Basically waiting to get what you want done.
    Includes waiting for a group to form in Group Finder, or trying to form a group for a dungeon or boss in guild or zone chat, or trying to form a Story Run for a dungeon.
    Would rather just go ahead and get it done SOLO.

    Hard same.
    I don't want to rush the content, but waiting on others has never been my strong point. Just let me get it done.

    Sometimes people can't even get a group at all. A guildmate was talking about waiting an hour in the queue for veteran Scalecaller to get a helm, but apparently no one likes to do that dungeon at all and they never got a queue pop for it. Solo mode would have solved it.
    And before people complain that Solo mode shouldn't drop monster helms -- maybe they should also stop shopping the Golden Vendor in Cyrodiil.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on February 23, 2020 8:05PM
  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
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    Kombinator wrote: »
    Sylvermynx wrote: »
    Other: none of the above.
    AlnilamE wrote: »
    I don't hate any of those things.

    I don't grind though. I level my characters crafting skills by deconstructing stuff I find through normal gameplay.
    Tandor wrote: »
    Other: none of the above. They all fit into the category of "playing the game" - although I don't grind.

    Since you don't grind i assume that is the part you hate the most. Even though it is not required for most of the content.

    But would you hate it, if you couldn't play any part of the game without a lot of grinding? Like if world content of next DLC would be that insanely hard, that without a perfect gear you would die against the first enemy you encounter. Even worse, that they would block behind a "solo phase" part where no other player can help you through, and that would be hard as hell too.

    I don't really hate grinding. I play BDO, and I've gotten a couple of really grindy things there like Dream horses, wagons and boats, as well as levelling most of my characters to 60.

    But in ESO, I'm far too busy to go grind for gear. I just play the content, and through that, I get the gear I need. (I'm a bit of a hoarder).

    To give you an idea, last year when they had the Undaunted event, I started running all my characters through daily dungeons. Now, some of them I'd only ever taken out on guild events where gear absolutely didn't matter and they were wearing gear at levels 30-40. I looked up some builds, rummaged through my storage and was able to outfit 3 stamina characters with pretty decent gear with minimal effort (doing the quest for the Briarheart dagger, for example).

    ESO gives you enough flexibility that you only need to grind if that's what you want to do.

    The Moot Councillor
  • Dusk_Coven
    Dusk_Coven
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    passive waiting
    alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »
    Spaceroamer wrote: »
    How do you hate story? Especially in an ES title game, it’s a given.

    Especially if you don’t care about it, then just skip over everything.

    Books/additional dialogue are there to help with world building so every enemy you fight isn’t a generic enemy bad guy #13742.

    The problem with the story of any MMO is that for it to work as an MMO the quests have to be generic because multiple people have to be able to do a particular quest. In a single player game more depth can be added with player choices having a consequence, NPCs being killed etc.

    SWTOR is very much choices-matter and they have huge replayability. It's not just dialogs are different or mention something you did in the past -- they often have completely different scenes depending on your earlier choices.
    But that also requires an upfront commitment and deep time investment. In comparison, ZOS rushes things and makes mistakes in all departments.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on February 23, 2020 8:08PM
  • Darkenarlol
    Darkenarlol
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    time wasted on reading useless forum threads =/
  • Langdon64
    Langdon64
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    Story
    Too many bookcases and books to read. Can easily turn a fifteen minute delve into an hour long drag.
  • leeux
    leeux
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    RNG
    RNG totally... IMO, is the most inherently evil of mechanisms... in the sense that if you land in that far slope of the Gaussian curve where the unlucky ones live, then there's nothing you can do about it.

    There's no light at the end of the tunnel, nothing but just keep trying, again and again, util you're eventually lucky, and when that happens, all that time you've invested is essentially worthless.

    Even the people that say that doesn't hate anything in the list, believe me if they were trying to find/get something important to them, and were unable to get it just due to RNG, they'd hating too :wink:

    I'm an advocate for controlled RNG or bounded RNG, where either you can control the odds of the thing you're trying to accomplish, or at the very list there's a safety net in place so there isn't a chance that you can't get the thing you need even after doing hundreds of attempts.

    EDIT: clarification and wording
    Edited by leeux on February 23, 2020 10:00PM
    PC/NA - Proud old member of the Antique Ordinatus Populus
    My chars
    Liana Amnell (AD mSorc L50+, ex EP) =x= Lehnnan Klennett (AD mTemplar L50+ Healer/Support ) =x= Ethim Amnell (AD mDK L50+, ex DC)
    Leinwyn Valaene (AD mSorc L50+) =x= Levus Artorias (AD mDK-for-now L50+) =x= Madril Ulessen (AD mNB L50+) =x= Lyra Amnis (AD not-Stamplar-yet L50+)
    I only PvP on AD chars

    ~~ «And blossoms anew beneath tomorrow's sun >>»
    ~~ «I am forever swimming around, amidst this ocean world we call home... >>»
    ~~ "Let strength be granted so the world might be mended... so the world might be mended."
    ~~ "Slash the silver chain that binds thee to life"
    ~~ Our cries will shrill, the air will moan and crash into the dawn. >>
    ~~ The sands of time were eroded by the river of constant change >>
  • dem0n1k
    dem0n1k
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    RNG
    also camp respawn timer :(
    NA Server [PC] -- Mostly Ebonheart Pact, Mostly.
  • RogueShark
    RogueShark
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    ✭
    Not sure what it would fall under... perhaps boss?
    I cannot stand "forced" wait mechanics. For example, boss going immune every x% and all you do is wait to continue dpsing them. It's not good mechanics it's just padding the fight out. Hate the indrik boss in vMoS because of this.
    PC NA
    Will heal DPS for memes.
  • Kombinator
    Kombinator
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    RNG
    Darkenarlol wrote: »
    time wasted on reading useless forum threads =/

    And writing useless post about it.
  • Kombinator
    Kombinator
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    RNG
    leeux wrote: »
    RNG totally... IMO, is the most inherently evil of mechanisms... in the sense that if you land in that far slope of the Gaussian curve where the unlucky ones live, then there's nothing you can do about it.

    There's no light at the end of the tunnel, nothing but just keep trying, again and again, util you're eventually lucky, and when that happens, all that time you've invested is essentially worthless.

    Even the people that say that doesn't hate anything in the list, believe me if they were trying to find/get something important to them, and were unable to get it just due to RNG, they'd hating too :wink:

    I'm an advocate for controlled RNG or bounded RNG, where either you can control the odds of the thing you're trying to accomplish, or at the very list there's a safety net in place so there isn't a chance that you can't get the thing you need even after doing hundreds of attempts.

    EDIT: clarification and wording

    On another thread i made a poll about reworking the way current dungeon system would work. The most popular choice was the hybrid rng. Basically you would get some sort of currency which let you buy exactly what you want, but bosses would also drop gear in RNG like now. My first idea for a ratio would be 1 currency for each dungeon's last boss, and it would cost 100 for an item, and 200 for 2-handed items. Separated currency would exist for trials with a different ratio maybe.

    Point is, that no matter how badly the RNG goes at some point you could get your item. But it's not good enough to farm something hard through an easy dungeon. I mean 1200 run required for a full gear. In that many runs you almost certainly get it the current way too.
    Edited by Kombinator on February 23, 2020 10:37PM
  • Cireous
    Cireous
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    Story
    I mean, I do like story, but ESO quest NPC's are too long winded in my opinion. I'd rather they be curt and funny and let me get on with things faster.
  • Sylvermynx
    Sylvermynx
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    Kombinator wrote: »
    Sylvermynx wrote: »
    Other: none of the above.
    AlnilamE wrote: »
    I don't hate any of those things.

    I don't grind though. I level my characters crafting skills by deconstructing stuff I find through normal gameplay.
    Tandor wrote: »
    Other: none of the above. They all fit into the category of "playing the game" - although I don't grind.

    Since you don't grind i assume that is the part you hate the most. Even though it is not required for most of the content.

    But would you hate it, if you couldn't play any part of the game without a lot of grinding? Like if world content of next DLC would be that insanely hard, that without a perfect gear you would die against the first enemy you encounter. Even worse, that they would block behind a "solo phase" part where no other player can help you through, and that would be hard as hell too.

    I just play the game. I don't consider anything in this game a grind. If it was grindy I just wouldn't have ever chosen to play it.
  • Wandering_Immigrant
    Wandering_Immigrant
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    passive waiting
    Specifically research timers. They're simply not interactive enough. Everything else on the list I just see as different parts of the game that I can choose to approach when and how I want, I enjoy doing them all when I'm in the mood to and if any one thing starts to feel grindy I take a break to work on another aspect of my character(s).

    Research however, you press one button and then wait a month real-time before you can have any input into that part of your character's growth again. If I'm out and about farming for gear or mats, or questing, or exp'ing or anything else and I decide I need to take a break from that activity, there are a number of different things I can switch my focus to, the one thing I can't decide to work on, is researching my traits, because I already pressed that button this month.
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