Lughlongarm wrote: »Looking over last year events, we are obviously at the start-middle of a transition period. I was expecting big changes for 2020 but I suspect that it will not be ready due to changes in priorities(performance issue and such) and the magnitude to the changes.
Several major changes have already started to be implanted, and it will probably be an ongoing process.
1)Standardization of skills.
2)addition of stamina morphs for magcika skills, addition of skills that scale both with magicka and stamina.
3)Addition of strong "Hybrid sets.
What I take from the above directions and the developer's article about class identity(https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/57025) , is that they want classes to be less and less relied on "weapon skills" and make the class kits more open and accessible to different play styles(for both magicka and stamina).
I think that Because Stamina builds originally have always been heavily relied on weapon skills, the devs couldn't just handicap it too hard without giving enough alternatives. So we are in this transition period, as Stamina builds are getting more options from class kits and not much is being taken away, while magicka builds are not getting new options and some its stronger weapon skills are being gutted(like clench).
This is by the way, a huge shift in direction, ESO vision was always play what you want, but it was also like, 'you want to be a healer? grab a resto staff and be a healer"(they always gave the same example of the NB healer).
Their new vision is: "our goal is for every class to be viable, not necessarily optimal, in any role without heavily relying on non-class skill lines"
The devs even hinted a "system" that could be driven force behind this kind of a direction shift.
"We consider these changes to be stop-gap measures while the team evaluates more holistic improvements for each class in the future." (this is my take on it as I still fantasize a "spell crafting" system).
And ofc, there is still the big mystery of the CP future and how it will be tied together with the ongoing vision.
So ya, your confusion is somewhat justified, "the magicka VS stamina war" is not a real thing, claims of "BIAS" /"HYPOCRISY " and such are not part to a game design discussion.
The off-balance change is annoying and creates many problems, but I have a feeling there is a bigger reason for this change which we are unaware of.
Hum, that will be interesting if they follow this kind of thinking. From what you’ve said I’ve gathered Templar = Healer, DK = Tank, etc... and more traditional roles.
If that’s the case some classes will be dead. Tankiness and healing is too important to be a class feature, damage has been fairly equalized because of pve, if some classes are left tankier or with better heals pvp will never be balanced.
Fur_like_snow wrote: »Until CP is reworked or removed any ideas are just wishful thinking.
phoenixkungfu wrote: »Fur_like_snow wrote: »Until CP is reworked or removed any ideas are just wishful thinking.
I'm not in the loop of the when of when and dates of when. So if cp rework is not by next patch release and performance update patch doesn't fix the lag.(which it won't let's just be honest) pull smoke and mirror move. Make player believe in magic. ADJUST abilities for lag. Create the illusion of smooth gameplay. Adjust abilities so move with stun dont lead to a player being killed but the follow up does. This will give player reaction time. Make pvp focus on dangerous pre moves that can land. Moves light Fisher should change colors before going off. Give the same treatment to power of the light, curse make it the loudest brightest color in the rainbow. Lower melee range and design gap closer as a pre look out reaction time move.
Change the gameplay to play through the lag. Rather than design for no lag.
VaranisArano wrote: »phoenixkungfu wrote: »Fur_like_snow wrote: »Until CP is reworked or removed any ideas are just wishful thinking.
I'm not in the loop of the when of when and dates of when. So if cp rework is not by next patch release and performance update patch doesn't fix the lag.(which it won't let's just be honest) pull smoke and mirror move. Make player believe in magic. ADJUST abilities for lag. Create the illusion of smooth gameplay. Adjust abilities so move with stun dont lead to a player being killed but the follow up does. This will give player reaction time. Make pvp focus on dangerous pre moves that can land. Moves light Fisher should change colors before going off. Give the same treatment to power of the light, curse make it the loudest brightest color in the rainbow. Lower melee range and design gap closer as a pre look out reaction time move.
Change the gameplay to play through the lag. Rather than design for no lag.
Everyone experiences different levels of lag. Its highly variable from person to person and even from night to night in Cyrodiil. 12 people in the same group in Cyrodiil can have widely different experiences with lag.
For example, in the same fight, I was dealing with seeing my group rubber band back and forth in position so half the time I was moving where I thought the group was headed, another player was only seeing half the enemies render, and one of the healers was seeing a couple seconds delay on their Purge while my Purge appeared to go off instantly.
Its not so simple to say "change the gameplay to play through lag" when lag is different for everyone.
phoenixkungfu wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »phoenixkungfu wrote: »Fur_like_snow wrote: »Until CP is reworked or removed any ideas are just wishful thinking.
I'm not in the loop of the when of when and dates of when. So if cp rework is not by next patch release and performance update patch doesn't fix the lag.(which it won't let's just be honest) pull smoke and mirror move. Make player believe in magic. ADJUST abilities for lag. Create the illusion of smooth gameplay. Adjust abilities so move with stun dont lead to a player being killed but the follow up does. This will give player reaction time. Make pvp focus on dangerous pre moves that can land. Moves light Fisher should change colors before going off. Give the same treatment to power of the light, curse make it the loudest brightest color in the rainbow. Lower melee range and design gap closer as a pre look out reaction time move.
Change the gameplay to play through the lag. Rather than design for no lag.
Everyone experiences different levels of lag. Its highly variable from person to person and even from night to night in Cyrodiil. 12 people in the same group in Cyrodiil can have widely different experiences with lag.
For example, in the same fight, I was dealing with seeing my group rubber band back and forth in position so half the time I was moving where I thought the group was headed, another player was only seeing half the enemies render, and one of the healers was seeing a couple seconds delay on their Purge while my Purge appeared to go off instantly.
Its not so simple to say "change the gameplay to play through lag" when lag is different for everyone.
Sure it is. Just think less like a dev and more like a consumer. Test lag during high times. Then after getting that data. Create a Lag simulator program and base abilities around that. Eazy peezy. think outside the box.
phoenixkungfu wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Looking over last year events, we are obviously at the start-middle of a transition period. I was expecting big changes for 2020 but I suspect that it will not be ready due to changes in priorities(performance issue and such) and the magnitude to the changes.
Several major changes have already started to be implanted, and it will probably be an ongoing process.
1)Standardization of skills.
2)addition of stamina morphs for magcika skills, addition of skills that scale both with magicka and stamina.
3)Addition of strong "Hybrid sets.
What I take from the above directions and the developer's article about class identity(https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/57025) , is that they want classes to be less and less relied on "weapon skills" and make the class kits more open and accessible to different play styles(for both magicka and stamina).
I think that Because Stamina builds originally have always been heavily relied on weapon skills, the devs couldn't just handicap it too hard without giving enough alternatives. So we are in this transition period, as Stamina builds are getting more options from class kits and not much is being taken away, while magicka builds are not getting new options and some its stronger weapon skills are being gutted(like clench).
This is by the way, a huge shift in direction, ESO vision was always play what you want, but it was also like, 'you want to be a healer? grab a resto staff and be a healer"(they always gave the same example of the NB healer).
Their new vision is: "our goal is for every class to be viable, not necessarily optimal, in any role without heavily relying on non-class skill lines"
The devs even hinted a "system" that could be driven force behind this kind of a direction shift.
"We consider these changes to be stop-gap measures while the team evaluates more holistic improvements for each class in the future." (this is my take on it as I still fantasize a "spell crafting" system).
And ofc, there is still the big mystery of the CP future and how it will be tied together with the ongoing vision.
So ya, your confusion is somewhat justified, "the magicka VS stamina war" is not a real thing, claims of "BIAS" /"HYPOCRISY " and such are not part to a game design discussion.
The off-balance change is annoying and creates many problems, but I have a feeling there is a bigger reason for this change which we are unaware of.
Hum, that will be interesting if they follow this kind of thinking. From what you’ve said I’ve gathered Templar = Healer, DK = Tank, etc... and more traditional roles.
If that’s the case some classes will be dead. Tankiness and healing is too important to be a class feature, damage has been fairly equalized because of pve, if some classes are left tankier or with better heals pvp will never be balanced.
Honestly I can balance pvp in a week with 1 meeting, 1 conversation, 1 direction 1 road map. AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH class balance in term of how they been going about it. My only issue with writing a game changing healthy gameplay balance post, is Preception. Will the preception be I want your job and you should just hire me for my creative vision. And development team be like "who do this guy think he is..". Or will it be wow how come we didn't think of that and he is right. my style is more of a chief Ramsay. I would tell and fire but that just because my experience is life works like that. But I think in this case, I will attach more bee's with honey. I'm honestly trying to just not damage any ego's. So I will post a Road map to how to fix pvp tonight.
VaranisArano wrote: »phoenixkungfu wrote: »Fur_like_snow wrote: »Until CP is reworked or removed any ideas are just wishful thinking.
I'm not in the loop of the when of when and dates of when. So if cp rework is not by next patch release and performance update patch doesn't fix the lag.(which it won't let's just be honest) pull smoke and mirror move. Make player believe in magic. ADJUST abilities for lag. Create the illusion of smooth gameplay. Adjust abilities so move with stun dont lead to a player being killed but the follow up does. This will give player reaction time. Make pvp focus on dangerous pre moves that can land. Moves light Fisher should change colors before going off. Give the same treatment to power of the light, curse make it the loudest brightest color in the rainbow. Lower melee range and design gap closer as a pre look out reaction time move.
Change the gameplay to play through the lag. Rather than design for no lag.
Everyone experiences different levels of lag. Its highly variable from person to person and even from night to night in Cyrodiil. 12 people in the same group in Cyrodiil can have widely different experiences with lag.
For example, in the same fight, I was dealing with seeing my group rubber band back and forth in position so half the time I was moving where I thought the group was headed, another player was only seeing half the enemies render, and one of the healers was seeing a couple seconds delay on their Purge while my Purge appeared to go off instantly.
Its not so simple to say "change the gameplay to play through lag" when lag is different for everyone.
VaranisArano wrote: »phoenixkungfu wrote: »Fur_like_snow wrote: »Until CP is reworked or removed any ideas are just wishful thinking.
I'm not in the loop of the when of when and dates of when. So if cp rework is not by next patch release and performance update patch doesn't fix the lag.(which it won't let's just be honest) pull smoke and mirror move. Make player believe in magic. ADJUST abilities for lag. Create the illusion of smooth gameplay. Adjust abilities so move with stun dont lead to a player being killed but the follow up does. This will give player reaction time. Make pvp focus on dangerous pre moves that can land. Moves light Fisher should change colors before going off. Give the same treatment to power of the light, curse make it the loudest brightest color in the rainbow. Lower melee range and design gap closer as a pre look out reaction time move.
Change the gameplay to play through the lag. Rather than design for no lag.
Everyone experiences different levels of lag. Its highly variable from person to person and even from night to night in Cyrodiil. 12 people in the same group in Cyrodiil can have widely different experiences with lag.
For example, in the same fight, I was dealing with seeing my group rubber band back and forth in position so half the time I was moving where I thought the group was headed, another player was only seeing half the enemies render, and one of the healers was seeing a couple seconds delay on their Purge while my Purge appeared to go off instantly.
Its not so simple to say "change the gameplay to play through lag" when lag is different for everyone.
Lag really killed this game, a Lot of my friends stopped playing for this reason, some of them back time to time but they realize it's still unplayable on prime time and just log out, i like play heavy burst damage sets but its not possible all the time with this lag one mistake can make you dead and the server response its so bad, I think this is the reason why many people build tank on Cyro.. "change the gameplay to play through lag"
phoenixkungfu wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »Looking over last year events, we are obviously at the start-middle of a transition period. I was expecting big changes for 2020 but I suspect that it will not be ready due to changes in priorities(performance issue and such) and the magnitude to the changes.
Several major changes have already started to be implanted, and it will probably be an ongoing process.
1)Standardization of skills.
2)addition of stamina morphs for magcika skills, addition of skills that scale both with magicka and stamina.
3)Addition of strong "Hybrid sets.
What I take from the above directions and the developer's article about class identity(https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/57025) , is that they want classes to be less and less relied on "weapon skills" and make the class kits more open and accessible to different play styles(for both magicka and stamina).
I think that Because Stamina builds originally have always been heavily relied on weapon skills, the devs couldn't just handicap it too hard without giving enough alternatives. So we are in this transition period, as Stamina builds are getting more options from class kits and not much is being taken away, while magicka builds are not getting new options and some its stronger weapon skills are being gutted(like clench).
This is by the way, a huge shift in direction, ESO vision was always play what you want, but it was also like, 'you want to be a healer? grab a resto staff and be a healer"(they always gave the same example of the NB healer).
Their new vision is: "our goal is for every class to be viable, not necessarily optimal, in any role without heavily relying on non-class skill lines"
The devs even hinted a "system" that could be driven force behind this kind of a direction shift.
"We consider these changes to be stop-gap measures while the team evaluates more holistic improvements for each class in the future." (this is my take on it as I still fantasize a "spell crafting" system).
And ofc, there is still the big mystery of the CP future and how it will be tied together with the ongoing vision.
So ya, your confusion is somewhat justified, "the magicka VS stamina war" is not a real thing, claims of "BIAS" /"HYPOCRISY " and such are not part to a game design discussion.
The off-balance change is annoying and creates many problems, but I have a feeling there is a bigger reason for this change which we are unaware of.
Hum, that will be interesting if they follow this kind of thinking. From what you’ve said I’ve gathered Templar = Healer, DK = Tank, etc... and more traditional roles.
If that’s the case some classes will be dead. Tankiness and healing is too important to be a class feature, damage has been fairly equalized because of pve, if some classes are left tankier or with better heals pvp will never be balanced.
Honestly I can balance pvp in a week with 1 meeting, 1 conversation, 1 direction 1 road map. AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH class balance in term of how they been going about it. My only issue with writing a game changing healthy gameplay balance post, is Preception. Will the preception be I want your job and you should just hire me for my creative vision. And development team be like "who do this guy think he is..". Or will it be wow how come we didn't think of that and he is right. my style is more of a chief Ramsay. I would tell and fire but that just because my experience is life works like that. But I think in this case, I will attach more bee's with honey. I'm honestly trying to just not damage any ego's. So I will post a Road map to how to fix pvp tonight.
Your post is precisely whats wrong with the world. The ignorant and stupid believe that complex issues can be solved with simple answers.
"One conversation" to fix balance in game with tens of thousands of possible builds and gear combinations. Thats going up there with "build a wall so your obsolete manufacturing jobs come back"
The_Old_Goat wrote: »In regards to weapon abilities, I believe they're scaling them back because class abilities should be stronger.