Zenimax please read this , Alchemy

deadtek

Alchemy, very big weak point of teso because all the means of obtaining the alchemical plants are awkward for example

1 / farm reagents in the tamriel regions for hours it is not profitable and very annoying to do when you do not spend a lot of time on the game, especially when you look at what you have picked up at the end and we find that we only picked 16 Corn Flowers in 3 hours

2 / bought the reagents in the guild shop, much, much too expensive, especially for new players it takes 80k the 200 Corn Flower and 40k the 200 Lady's Smock and 30k the 200 Water Hyacinth and 20k the 200 Lorkhan's Tears, It is thanks to this solution that many high level PVE PVE players where players with a large amount of gold can afford to buy this. It is a punitive system for a lot of players (beginners, or even high-spending players who buy praxis or pattern furniture, etc., or players who just want to play for 1 or 2 hours)

3 / the stone of Telvar to buy alchemical bags and very punitive too because in case of death you lose half of your stones so you stuff for hours you get killed by a player and you say goodbye to half of your winnings

4 / the alchemical tracking is a passable but very annoying solution because it takes time and a foolproof patient for the simple reason that you must first do the daily quests of artisans, after you teleport to the region indicated (you all know how long the loading times are) then you have to find the location of the locations (very annoying found when you don't know) and then you arrive there and you see that there are only reagents that you don't need.

A question necessarily arises, is it worth spending so much time in the end just making potions? And the answer is necessarily no


consequence of all these faults on the community:

forces players to create builds without alchemical potions, but with basic potions that lasts only 30 seconds so with a huge penalty because we have to play with spells that lose Dps, care, survival, resistance and a place of competence.

Forces players to spend at least 2 hours farming reagents or keeping gold coins to buy reagents

crafter potions bring a lot of very important bonuses for all the roles, playing without these potions discredits the role which you exert that has the consequence of making you send dungeons because you lack Dps of resistance of regeneration or care or even have a great disadvantage for Pvp and even give a good reason for not being caught in a raid

another of the consequences is to discourage the players because of all the problems written above and to take the game for a game or if you have neither gold nor much time you will not be able to do much

SOLUTION AND IMPORTANCE FOR PLAYERS

the importance of the alchemical potions is paramount (major sorcely, major brutality, major sauvagery, major prophecy, major all recovery, etc.) and should not be a constraint for the players because we consume a potion every 45 seconds and we do not should never ask myself, do I have any potions left in the inventory or in the bank. The potions should be unlimited Kasi consumables such as food and drinks which are consumed on average all the 1 hour

solution:

The retifs found in tamriel now contain ten different reagents in a single plant (resource) that is to say picked up a plant can give you 2 Corn Flower 2 Lady's Smock 2Water Hyacinth 2 Bugloss 2Columbine for example

All tamriel alchemists (pnj) sell the same alchemy bags as that of the imperial city in telvar except that they are now available for 500 gold and the special reagents of summerset and elswer are on sale for 1000 pieces gold and water bottles of all levels for 10 gold coins each and the same in alliance points 500, 1000, 10

the markings are now transformed into an alchemy crate which gives the same quantity of materials as the current markings

but the best way for me to remain a new passive skill like the kitchen supplier who would give 10 Lorkhan's Tears ,, 10 Lady's Smock, 10 Water Hyacinth 10 Bugloss for example by email and change of the passive which creates 4 potions and 16 poisons for that he now creates 12 potions and 48 poisons

new craftable set "the crazy harvester"

2 oj = 129 recover stam
3 oj = 4% sprint speed
4 days = 4% reduction in sprint cost
5 oj = you collected 40% of additional resource and if your weapons are sheathed the basic watches will not attack you (this effect cannot occur in trials, Arena dungeons and Pvp)

These are all i can offer i hope that develop them will at least look at these fixes
I apologize for the translation I am French and I still have a lot of trouble in English

Donny_Vito

TLDR for others....

Alchemy, in it's current state, is a losing game. You either lose so much time try to farm or you lose so much gold buying ingredients at outrageous prices.

A few solutions:
1) Alchemy nodes now offer multiple types of reagents in them.
2) Add a new set that allows for easier farming. You'll get additional resources from the nodes and you won't be attacked if you do not have a weapon out.

Kaysha

removing the 50% lost on death system in IC would be really helpfull, too. 10% lost would still work and IC would not be the empty place it is here on the EU server.

And farming Tel var would actually be less frustrating for PvE players. IC should have been a PvP AND PvE zone from the start of the game.

VaranisArano

Most new players will do just fine using the potions that get handed out like candy from the daily log-in rewards.

As for the "I need either gold or time to get stuff in ESO" bits, well, its an MMO. Grinding is part of the genre. Its not particularly intended to be a game you only play for 1 or 2 hours and get easy access to everything you want.

(Tip for farming plants: run loops around the Hollow City in Coldharbor and pick ALL the flowers. You can skip nirnroot and hyacinth if you want.)

idk

deadtek wrote: »

Alchemy, very big weak point of teso because all the means of obtaining the alchemical plants are awkward for example

1 / farm reagents in the tamriel regions for hours it is not profitable and

2 / bought the reagents in the guild shop, much, much too expensive

OP contradicts themselves. How can the alchemy matts not be profitable yet to expensive? True context is not lost with the edits, easily seen by reading the first two points of the OP.

I did not read past the first two as the argument is clearly forced and based on inaccurate information. Besides, the price of materials in the game is based on supply and demand. Do not like the price them farm it. Not enough time to farm it then buy them. Not enough gold then trade some crowns for gold and buy them.

Derra

idk wrote: »

deadtek wrote: »

Alchemy, very big weak point of teso because all the means of obtaining the alchemical plants are awkward for example

1 / farm reagents in the tamriel regions for hours it is not profitable and

2 / bought the reagents in the guild shop, much, much too expensive

OP contradicts themselves. How can the alchemy matts not be profitable yet to expensive? True context is not lost with the edits, easily seen by reading the first two points of the OP.

I did not read past the first two as the argument is clearly forced and based on inaccurate information. Besides, the price of materials in the game is based on supply and demand. Do not like the price them farm it. Not enough time to farm it then buy them. Not enough gold then trade some crowns for gold and buy them.

Which is just lazy old settled in mmo oligarchy talk (you could say eso boomer). Every game the long term or high playtime ppl repeat the same nonsense not realizing that games dwindle and die out just bc of this approach and the devs giving new players too little catchup help in an ever increasing content pool.

OP is right in a way that alchemy (and to some extend also gear grind) massively hinders new players reaching and progressing in endgame - harming the game in the process bc it´s content is time gated by too much trivial but mandatory farming.

MashmalloMan

This has nothing to do with the PTS.

Rahar

If you're struggling with money in this game, remember that there are LOADS of ways to earn it that are practically thrown at you. PvE trials, gear rewards, AP, login rewards, etc, just to name a few that land in your lap without lifting a single finger of effort. However, the biggest and easiest money in the game is crafting writs.

Max out your crafting and put the skill points in so you can craft CP 160 gear. Do that for 1-9 alts. Do them every day. You're talking about 5-30 minutes of effort for what can potentially reach 20k per character and more often than not lands somewhere around 10k per character. Fact of the matter is that if you aren't earning more money than you can spend reasonably in this game, you're not trying. That's the root of your problem, right? Time or money -- so why not move away from alchemy altogether and do something more lucrative to put an end to those means?

That being said, I wouldn't overly oppose gathering or crafting based sets in this game, as long as they were reasonable (not auto 2x materials gathered, but maybe something similar to the CP bonus to gathering that stacks with it).

Also, gutting the 50% tel var loss on death in IC would be beating a dead horse. It's already deserted there 90% of the time, and removing the incentive to PvP would just put an end to any remaining activity. Quite frankly, this game is easy enough as it is and doesn't need more PvE-handholdy stuff. Build tanky and run away or take the risk.

daemonios

There are multiple ways of getting alchemy ingredients, as OP themselves acknowledge. If you don't want to farm plants, buy from stores. If you don't want that either, buy with tel var stones. You get the gist.

As for some of OP's objections: ingredients are always available in guild stores at much lower prices than server averages. But it takes time and can be a PITA to visit a couple dozen guild stores for the best prices before they all get picked up by flippers. That is a problem with the trading system, though. Not the alchemy system.

Regarding tel var, being able to purchase alchemy ingredients is not their only or even main goal. They're an incentive for a high-stakes challenge in the Imperial City. Tel var are created out of thin air when you kill baddies in IC and destroyed when you suffer a non-PvP death. Messing with the rate of loss can cause rampant inflation.

IMO the alchemy system in ESO is pretty underwhelming, and has been since launch, but not for any of the reasons OP stated. The main problem is that there are very few potions that are particularly useful, especially with such a long cool-down between uses. This could be mitigated by allowing you to drink a potion with different effects regardless of that cool-down, which could lead to more inventive and strategic potion use. But the hideous quick-slot wheel interface is an abomination that gets in the way of that, at least for console players who can't escape the controller interface and have limited buttons.

Starlock

... I just... don’t use potions. I view them as an “emergency use only” crutch in all the games I play. All of them so far have been more than playable without bothering with potions. They also all have various levels of pain in the rear mechanics, so even though I would find it interesting to RP an alchemist, every time I try I just delete the character because the mechanics suck. They especially suck in Elder Scrolls games.

The best fix would be to scrap the entire system and make potions an infinite use equippable power that you first have to craft to obtain. The power could be slotted and used as much as you want with a cooldown. Or maybe treat them like weapon enchantments ao they have a LOT of uses, but do need recharging eventually. I might actually bother with potions if they worked like that. Maybe. Eh, probably not.

Sylvermynx

Starlock wrote: »

... I just... don’t use potions. I view them as an “emergency use only” crutch in all the games I play. All of them so far have been more than playable without bothering with potions. They also all have various levels of pain in the rear mechanics, so even though I would find it interesting to RP an alchemist, every time I try I just delete the character because the mechanics suck. They especially suck in Elder Scrolls games.

The best fix would be to scrap the entire system and make potions an infinite use equippable power that you first have to craft to obtain. The power could be slotted and used as much as you want with a cooldown. Or maybe treat them like weapon enchantments ao they have a LOT of uses, but do need recharging eventually. I might actually bother with potions if they worked like that. Maybe. Eh, probably not.

Heh. Are you sure we aren't related? You just said everything I was planning to say myself! I've never been able to mess with potions (good LORD.... the number of pots kicking around on every girl in Skyrim.... CHESTS full to overflowing all over every house....) in any game. Even this one - where, when I was a really new player, pots would have helped.... a lot.... but I couldn't get my satellite connection to actually let me use them from the quickslot menu (satellite lag sucks - I also couldn't bar swap or LA weave.... the new sat is better, though still not anywhere as good as "real" internet....)

idk

Derra wrote: »

idk wrote: »

deadtek wrote: »

Alchemy, very big weak point of teso because all the means of obtaining the alchemical plants are awkward for example

1 / farm reagents in the tamriel regions for hours it is not profitable and

2 / bought the reagents in the guild shop, much, much too expensive

OP contradicts themselves. How can the alchemy matts not be profitable yet to expensive? True context is not lost with the edits, easily seen by reading the first two points of the OP.

I did not read past the first two as the argument is clearly forced and based on inaccurate information. Besides, the price of materials in the game is based on supply and demand. Do not like the price them farm it. Not enough time to farm it then buy them. Not enough gold then trade some crowns for gold and buy them.

Which is just lazy old settled in mmo oligarchy talk (you could say eso boomer). Every game the long term or high playtime ppl repeat the same nonsense not realizing that games dwindle and die out just bc of this approach and the devs giving new players too little catchup help in an ever increasing content pool.

OP is right in a way that alchemy (and to some extend also gear grind) massively hinders new players reaching and progressing in endgame - harming the game in the process bc it´s content is time gated by too much trivial but mandatory farming.

Talking about catchup help in correlation with obtaining materials for crafting consumables? Alchemy does not hinder new player from reaching and progressing in end game. CP and the player themselves are the only things that are hindering a player reaching end game. If a player is not able to make the cut for a decent end game raid team is not because of a lack of potions.

I have never been without potions as I farm the matts when I do not have the gold to buy them. This is just entitlement nonsense. I do not have the time to farm or gold to buy so I want things made easier for me. That is exactly what the message is.

DelosTheta

This one eagerly awaits part 2.

—M’aiq the Liar

Acrolas

So let me ask this. Between March 2019, when you made ostensibly the same thread,
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465594/lalchemy-is-a-big-defect-of-the-game

and now, February 2020, what have you personally experienced on your own account during those 11 months? Do you have any characters fully maxed in Alchemy? Do you regularly do writs? Are you in a guild on console?

Rather than propose sweeping changes, let's pinpoint the one or two things you can do to eliminate the bottleneck you are experiencing and make the next 11 months more productive.

llande

That's just today's society. Most would like to have everything handed out for free and without any effort. The alchemy is good as it is.

BTW, tripots, weapon, spell power etc pots are only really needed for vet and trial content, everything else you can do just fine without any pots whatsoever. If you don't have time for the game this content is possibly not for you.

Let me guess part 2: dungeon and trial gear should be handed out for free, golden and divines/impenetrable cause it is punitive, excessively hard to get them and atrociously expansive to gold them. At the minimum they should drop in the nice sets of five, preferably from skeevers and mudcrabs.

peacenote

I might be wrong, but the OP's post sounds a bit like an old-school MMO perspective (best way I can put it, not sure if that's even exactly what I mean) in that there seems to be an underlying assumption that alchemy must be directly profitable to make pursuing alchemy worthwhile. You know, back in the day when choosing "a craft" was a big deal. And that craft was both a) profitable to you and b) the primary way by which other players that did not choose the craft obtained the goods.

From that perspective, the points kind of make sense to me. I remember when I played Aion, and my craft was alchemy, and for a while I was one of maybe three alchemists that regularly sold potions on the global auction house and helped keep the prices steady.

But if you consider alchemy, in ESO, compared to some of the other crafting professions (like enchanting and jewelcrafting) the feedback doesn't really make sense. It's extremely easy to level alchemy compared to other professions, and there are so many zones where you can run around and pick up a few plants and have a decent amount of mats.

Add that to the fact that alchemy's "Medicinal Use" passives are considered important for anyone doing harder content (at least trials), a good amount of players power level alchemy for this purpose only.

Add that to the fact that ZOS has made a lot of choices so that pursuing traits and motifs, while not 100% essential, are pretty necessary for any serious player such that anyone but the purely casual or brand new probably has at least one crafter with all professions leveled and can generally take care of their own needs. (If you don't know what I'm referring to, imo the transmutation and outfit systems had the potential to increase the benefits of crafters, add more fun to that area, and increase community interactions and teamwork, but instead the exact opposite was implemented.)

Add to THAT the fact that, despite this, ESO still has a pretty healthy community spirit, with friendly guilds that will share potions, motifs, and mats galore with new players to help them along... and you're pretty much lost me.

AND poisons weren't even mentioned.

Anyway, I think that crafting in general could maybe use some kind of overhaul, and that it's pretty true that none of the professions feel "worth it" if you pursue them to try and "make your fortune" - but it's not an alchemy specific problem. It's a much broader situation unless you insist on evaluating each profession individually.

pod88kk

If you don't like the reagents from surveys, don't pick them up. Walk away then go back to it and they'll have changed

Kittytravel

1. Get yourself Coward's Gear and Darkstride Sets. You don't need to be outfitted in your best gear to do some overland farming and if you have trouble fighting overland with these two sets on you probably aren't far enough in the game to need to be using Major Buff pots anyway. (These sets are DIRT cheap. Maybe 5-8k for each for a full set.)

2. Don't farm in base game areas if you can; try to farm in xpac or older DLC zones as those will have less players in them.

3. If you are finding only 16 cornflower in 3 hours you're seriously missing an incredibly high amount of nodes. I can spend 30 minutes in regular gear in craglorn and farm 150 resource nodes in that time; boring yes but by all means not worthwhile if I need mats.

No offense meant but you really don't seem like you've observed the game state long enough solely based on how many of your points counteract your statements.
- You claim farming is not profitable.
- You then claim the reagents are too expensive on the guild store.

- Your argument for Tel Var stones applies to literally anything you can buy with Tel Var.

- ZOS is not forcing you to do anything. I don't even use Major Savagery pots on most of my stam toons because I'm not speed running anything, you are complaining about some serious min/max here that doesn't apply to 70% of content.

- Your proposed changes would crash the entire alchemy economy and render the current system something that would instead just be made into passives because what's the point if it doesn't cost you investment to get?

VaranisArano

That set is a bot's dream. Extra mats plus ignored by mobs? Perfect for farming bots, allowing them to run even more routes.

xXMeowMeowXx

I am sure banana would disagree with the OP as well....

Sylvermynx

I run every survey I get (with a few major exceptions which are just too much trouble) - and I've never run out of mats except on my EU accounts as they're fairly new so I don't get so many surveys there.

I save up surveys on both accounts, both servers and when each main gets ten or so, I spend a few hours running surveys. It's easy, it's fun, and I get good mats. What's not to love.

[Edit for typo *sigh*]

dem0n1k

In PVP I use the crown store tri-pots on most characters. You get so many from daily logins... I have never bought any & have stacks of them.

It sounds like I should start putting flowers in guild stores for phat loot! I have tons in my craft bag!

I have complained a bit about the 'grindyness' of some of the crafting in ESO (looking at you Jewelry crafting!) but Alchemy always seemed fairly easy to get sufficient mats. *shrug*

idk

Acrolas wrote: »

So let me ask this. Between March 2019, when you made ostensibly the same thread,
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/465594/lalchemy-is-a-big-defect-of-the-game

and now, February 2020, what have you personally experienced on your own account during those 11 months? Do you have any characters fully maxed in Alchemy? Do you regularly do writs? Are you in a guild on console?

Rather than propose sweeping changes, let's pinpoint the one or two things you can do to eliminate the bottleneck you are experiencing and make the next 11 months more productive.

Good point but OP is basically just complaining that every means for obtaining alchemy matts is to troublesome for them to deal with. As a result they wants this aspect of the game made easier for them.

We all know farming alchemy matts is profitable. If it were not people would not do it.
We all know the prices of matts are supply and demand.
Farming Tel Var to buy matts works great.

The so called solution to their woes pose some major issues in game. Varanis has it correct that it would be a botters dream.

FierceSam

I’m not finding alchemy a chore at all.

It’s one of the easiest skills to max out both in terms of time and effort required.. likewise, learning all the traits takes a very short time.

I’ve never deliberately gone farming, but then I’ve never deliberately ridden past a corn flower I didn’t harvest. So now I can do a pile of writs and still have thousands.

I use potions constantly during Boss fights, but not for mobs. I’ve not had issues with them running out.

The only issue I can imagine is the massive pain in the arse it must be to try to do alchemy without the endless crafting bag.

BackStabeth

I don't get it, either I am accidentally doing everything in regards to farming what's required for potions, and in training and making potions, and barely having been playing 6 weeks, or the OP is wrong.

I think the OP is wrong...

I have no issues making enough gold to buy whatever I need potions or ingredients.

I have no issue farming everything I need to make all the potions I need. I also don't use any potions every 45 seconds, I'm really confused why that is needed.

If you only play a few hours a week, you cannot expect the developers or ZoS to compensate for the lack of time you spend in game. It takes so many hours to produce x amount of whatever, regardless if you are farming the gold to buy what you need, or farming the mats to make what you need. It just sounds to me like you don't want to invest the time and work to advance, and instead want everything handed to you.

Yeah, the mats are expensive that's a reflection of the time it takes to collect them. If you are going to buy the mats, then you have to pay the price. And yeah, it takes awhile to farm them, to collect enough to make the potions you want to make, but that's also why the potions sell for what they do. Those things are not going to change, and you cannot have a desired affect on them. So the only other option is not to use potions as often as you do, meaning don't use a potion every 45 seconds.

How can you do this you ask? I made it to CP 160 having never used any potion or eating any food. My intent was to learn how to play and survive without them before I started using them. I do use food now, and only once in awhile a potion, and I have only ever had to use potions I get from login rewards. I forced myself to learn how to play without them, and now hardly need them.

It seems to me that if you learn to play without using potions, if you alter your skills, your point distribution and your play style in favor of not needing potions, then you can learn to play using potions and use so few that it will be relatively inexpensive for you to buy them, or more easy for you to farm the mats to make them.

What the OP is suggesting would deeply affect the in game economy. If all the mats for creating potions were more easily obtained, the prices would plummet, those people that sell them would not have nearly as much gold to invest back into the economy to buy other things, other people put up for sale. As well, people pick up a lot of gold while picking up mats because of everything from chests they open, to NPCs they kill, etc. The OPs suggestion would dramatically change the economy and not for the good of the game by any stretch.

No, we need to leave things exactly how they are. People that work hard farming mats should enjoy the prices they command. People who use rely too heavily on potions need to learn how to adapt their play style so they use less.

Curious_Death

Donny_Vito wrote: »

TLDR for others....

Alchemy, in it's current state, is a losing game. You either lose so much time try to farm or you lose so much gold buying ingredients at outrageous prices.

A few solutions:
1) Alchemy nodes now offer multiple types of reagents in them.
2) Add a new set that allows for easier farming. You'll get additional resources from the nodes and you won't be attacked if you do not have a weapon out.

and thats how ESO was flooded with pixel bots immune to memory protection coz can be run on Virtual Machine or even sandbox

eso is still one of best anti bots mmo - random nodes and unbalanced performance x_x

Darkenarlol

i've heard many times that overland is too easy

but it looks like some people have issues even

when it comes to collect some flowers

Avoranti

Solution for OP. Alchemy surveys. Do daily alchemy writs, get resources and sometimes a survey, use survey, get resources, rinse repeat. Problem solved.

SeaGtGruff

Gathering enough Alchemical ingredients when you're just starting can be tough, but if you harvest every Alchemical plant and mushroom and water and oil(?) that you come across then gradually you'll build up your amounts to a point where you should not have trouble doing your daily Alchemy writs.

The plants can be easy to miss unless you have the passive ability that helps you see them, so be sure to invest skill points in that passive ability.

Now, if you're talking about creating stacks of Alchemical potions and poisons for use in PvP fighting and PvE questing, you'll want to invest skill points in the passive ability that lets you create larger quantities, because it lets you stretch your amounts of ingredients so you don't run out as quickly.

Aside from that, don't overlook the possibility of substituting one ingredient for another which has the same desired effects, so that's why you want to harvest every plant or mushroom you come across rather than looking just for specific ones.

macsmooth

I can’t wait for part two but until then I remains silent

Kombinator

Your personal problem. Just be good, and spend more time gathering. SImple as that.